The Beginner Photography Podcast

Deep-Dive Learning at The Texas School of Professional Photography with Cris Duncan

• Raymond Hatfield

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#591 Cris Duncan is an experienced studio owner from Lubbock, Texas, well-known for his expertise in lighting and in-person photography education. The conversation dives into the transformative value of hands-on, in-person learning experiences for photographers at all stages, shining a spotlight on Cris’ role with the Texas School of Professional Photography—a weeklong, immersive event designed to provide deep dives into specific areas of photography, rather than the surface-level "popcorn" approach of larger conferences.

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. In-Person Education vs. Online Learning - Cris highlights the unique advantages of in-person workshops (like Texas School) over online resources. While online tools are valuable for information, in-person learning provides real-time feedback, hands-on practice, and the chance to safely make and correct mistakes.
  2. Structure and Tracks at Texas School of Professional Photography - Texas School offers deep-dives in four main tracks—digital post-production, successful studio/business growth, lighting and camera skills, and specialty/technique. Students select a single class for the week, fostering mastery and focused learning.
  3. Building Community and Lifelong Learning - Success is fueled by connecting with others, sharing experiences, and forming lasting friendships. Community learning fosters motivation, accountability, and creative problem-solving. Cris describes students returning year after year, advancing in their journeys, and forming strong professional networks.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Concierge Family Portrait Experience: A premium, tailored photography service that guides clients in everything from wardrobe choices to matching artwork with home décor, ensuring the final portrait complements the client’s personality and environment.
  • Texas School of Professional Photography: A weeklong educational event near Dallas, Texas, offering immersive, instructor-led classes to help photographers build foundational and advanced skills in a collaborative, hands-on environment.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. In what ways does hands-on, in-person instruction help you understand and retain new photography skills better than online learning?
  2. How might joining a creative community or peer group accelerate your own photography journey?
  3. What skills or business goals would you most want to “deep-dive” into if given a week-long immersive class?
  4. Reflect on a time you learned best by failing—and how feedback helped you improve.

RESOURCES:
Visit Texas School’s Website - https://texasschool.org/
Follow Cris Duncan on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cjduncan

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Cris Duncan:

I think starting out alone is fine watch some YouTube videos, read some magazine, listen to some things, maybe go to a conference and sit in the back of the room for 90 minutes. But that's only gonna take you so far, think when you put yourself into a group that all has the common goal, you're gonna succeed.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast, brought to you by Clouds Spot. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and today we are chatting with four time guest and new director of the Texas School of Professional Photography, Chris Duncan, about why nothing beats learning a new skill in person. But first, did you know that 70% of people abandoned their online shopping cart before checking out? That means that if you're trying to sell prints, online, that's a lot of money that you could be leaving on the table. Well worry no more because with cloud spots abandoned the cart to email feature, your clients will automatically be reminded to finish their purchase without lifting a finger. So what are you waiting for? Grab your free cloud spot account today over@deliverphotos.com. So, as I mentioned earlier, Chris has been on the podcast a number of times, talking about and, teaching about light. And he does so in a way that is super easy to understand so much so that I still get emails today from listeners saying how much they pick up from our chats. Well, Chris is the newly appointed director of the Texas School of Professional Photography. And despite its name, it's not like a, fall through spring type of school. It's more of a one week intensive, classroom setting where students can come and go deep into learning a photography topic or technique so that when they leave they are, not only do they fully understand whatever that topic or technique is, but they have also worked through it. And any issues that, could potentially come up with the teacher by their side and now they're ready to tackle it in the real world. Really cool stuff. I've met, Chris in person two or three times at you know, the various imaging USA events that, I've attended over the years and I gotta say he is, in person. So kind and honestly, you can tell that he has this real desire to help build up the photography community as a whole. And I don't know, I think that we need more people like him in the industry, and I'm glad that he's in a position to help so many photographers to grow. Chris also wanted me to remind you that the next Texas school event runs from April 26th to May 1st, 2026. So if you're interested, check it out. With that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview. So usually my first question for you is, when did you know that photography was gonna play an important role in your life? But Chris, you've kind of been on the podcast a number of times. I've got that answer for you. And anybody who wants to know can go back and listen. So my new first question for you today is that, Well, because you've been on the podcast a number of times, we often talk about light, right? And light is a topic that not only are you very familiar with, but I think just the way that you explain light, the way that you talk about the concepts, it really relates with listeners very well. So again, I'm very excited to chat with you today. but before we get into today's topic, can you kind of give us like this 30,000 foot overview of who you are and what brought you to the podcast?

Cris Duncan:

Sure. My name's, Chris Duncan. I'm a studio owner in Lubbock, Texas. This has been our, our career and our job since 2004. So we're in 20, over 20 years, which is sometimes when you

Raymond Hatfield:

Wild.

Cris Duncan:

it's hard to believe. You know, we've done everything from weddings to commercial jobs, high school, seniors, families, photographs, a couple of presidents. But right now we really focus on, kind of, I like to call it a concierge, family portrait experience. No.

Raymond Hatfield:

And what exactly does that mean for those who are questionable?

Cris Duncan:

Just a little more, more attention. I think maybe when you think of gonna a hotel ver a concierge versus a normal staff person. My wife, if she was here, she'd equate it, like, if you were gonna buy furniture or curtains or something for your home, many people would hire a designer. They might consult some other design magazines or to make sure it's curated. We view a family portrait should reside in the home just like any other piece of artwork would too, or furnishings. So just wanna make sure we're matching the client's personality. The colors go good with their skin tones. It goes good in the space they've picked out for it in their home and doing all that while staying true to who that person is. So.

Raymond Hatfield:

So this is more than just somebody contacts you and says, Hey, let's do a photo shoot. You're like helping them figure out what clothes to wear and where the finished artwork is gonna go on their walls. Is that right?

Cris Duncan:

Absolutely. Yep.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Okay. I love that. And you've been doing that for 20 years. That is amazing. and Lubbock is in, is it West Texas? Is that right?

Cris Duncan:

Yes. It's in West Texas, in the panhandle.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, like I said, light is one of those things that you're very well known for. And every time I have a conversation with you, I tend to get a number of emails, a number of, comments on, in our Facebook group, saying, Hey, that really helped me to achieve this thing. So again, I'm really excited for our chat today because, not only are you able to share things, I think in a way that many beginners. find, easy to understand. And I think that just comes from your experience having done this for 20 plus years. Like, this isn't a new concept that you're trying to explain, for the first time. But like you've done this before. So you recently got a new role, which you reached out and you told me at the, Texas School of Professional Photography. First of all, congratulations. That's huge. Tell me what this means and, for those who are listening who don't know, what is the Texas School of Professional Photography?

Cris Duncan:

Okay. Well, First of all, what that means is that I'm working more now than I was before.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a good thing sometimes. Yeah.

Cris Duncan:

some new responsibilities. I'm very excited about it. I was an instructor at the Texas School of Professional Photography for 10 years. I'm a volunteer and a student for years before that, so it's a place that I'm very familiar with. I realize some of your listeners may not be. The Texas School Professional Photography is a week long event held in the spring. It's in Addison, Texas, which we would just call Dallas for, just outside of Dallas. And it's the fourth largest photography event in the country. It's the largest hands-on event in the country. Close to 800 students show up. We have over 30 unique classes. A nice trade show, there, but what makes it unique to other photography, maybe conferences, is it's not a conference you don't bounce from. Oh, I wanna learn from this person and I wanna learn a little bit from this person and I wanna learn a little bit from this person. And you kind of, you know, you kinda get this popcorn approach at other conferences like Image and USA or Shutter Fest or something like that. Where at Texas School you select an instructor. Just think of going to college. Like, I want this instructor and this is my course for the week. And so it's a deep dive into that either. What you wanna learn from that instructor. There are concepts, maybe they're teaching a foundational skill like lighting, or some business marketing. But you're really in a small class environment, less than 30 students, deep diving, intensive work into that class. So.

Raymond Hatfield:

Why do you think, getting together in person is, is the way to go? Because like, we kinda live in this instant world where if, you know, at 3:00 AM I decide I wanna learn how to light corporate headshots or, pose wedding couples like I. Go to YouTube and figure that out. But, you've obviously gone deep into the world of in-person education. Why, why is that so important?

Cris Duncan:

Well, for two I've, I think there's value in going to YouTube or reading a magazine article or even listening to a podcast to get some concepts. Don't discount that at all. But what you don't get in that is the practice. You don't get the feedback. You don't get the opportunity to fail know you're failing and know why you're failing. So then if it happens again, you can say, oh, this is where I missed, or this is where I fell short. you know, I, I love to golf and so, I've taken enough golf lessons that if I hit a slice, I know why I hit a slice. Doesn't mean I can always not hit a slice, I've had that personal instruction and that feedback to say, this is what's causing it. So now I can work on, try to not cause that again. So if I'm always having blown out highlights or if my, I'm having stuff that's not in focus, my depth of field isn't right. Once I'm taught that and when I have that problem in front of me. I'm like, oh, now I know how to fix it. And so I think having that feedback. I like to say Texas School is a safe place to fail'cause everybody there, I mean, whether you believe it or not, everybody there is in the same boat. They're all in the same place. They're all wanting to go one step farther than they came. So

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a good place to be then. That is a very good place to be. I know sometimes like I've taken classes before and it can be scary I think at first, right? Because, one, you don't wanna be the dumbest person in the room. You don't want to be the person who shows up and everybody has professional level gear and maybe you're, newer into your journey. so is Texas School of Photography is this event, open to everybody because it says, I mean, in the name it's Texas School of Professional Photography. So is it focused on business or techniques as well?

Cris Duncan:

I would say, you know, we celebrated our 50th year in 2025, so we're going into our 51st year. 50 years ago, professional photography might have meant something different than it does now. Back then it was all studio work, you know, you

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Cris Duncan:

evolved and what the client expects has evolved. But what I think hasn't really changed is what people consider professional level photography. Doesn't mean it has to be your career, but the work you produce is professional level.

Raymond Hatfield:

I see. Ah, that makes sense.

Cris Duncan:

So we even, we have classes for beginners that. maybe this is a side gig for them and they wanna just get better at photography before they try to make it. Be more substantial than their income. We have some that they may be their second career. They've got early retirement from the military or law enforcement or civil service, and they still got a lot of life in'em, and they want to, and they love photography. we've got some that are older in their journey. but what they all have in common, whether, and it's not making money, it's not having a business. There's some people there for that, but what they all want to do is move the ball forward, create great work, be proud of the work they create Texas School provides that.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love that. So, tell me more about how it works'cause I've never been as well, but, it sounds very interesting. I love this idea of going deeper in with one educator instead of, meeting with a bunch of people. Because although I do like the idea of going to a conference and learning a little bit of a lot of things just to expand the mind. If I have a very specific problem that I'm trying to solve, I wanna go deeper rather than wider. And it sounds like that's exactly what this is. So how would you suggest approaching, of finding or attending? Do you find a, instructor who has a series of classes that you attend? Or is it, is it one, technical or business element and then you just spend the whole time focused on that?

Cris Duncan:

Well, each instructor has the freedom to craft their class in the way that they best see fit. When I taught there for 10 years, as you mentioned, I like to teach lighting. I feel very versed in lighting and can explain it well. And so we just dove right into lighting, learning, studio lighting with single and multiple lights balancing. Its outdoor. So it was all technically driven around using light to create a compelling image. side is other classes might be more on marketing or business for that business person that maybe they're, they started out, but they're in that growth journey and they feel like they've stalled and they just need to continue to grow. So we have created for Texas School coming up, you can go to Texas school.org and see all the instructors we have and read their class descriptions and find out the best fit for you. But we kinda have four big buckets, or four big tracks. The first one is digital post-production. and this has classes that are learning Lightroom, beginning to learn Photoshop to advance compositing techniques. painting in Photoshop. we have what we call successful studios. And these classes are a mixture of some technical areas, some business areas. It might be marketing, it could be story branding, maybe a new product you want to offer, elevating a product in your studio. something like that. That's our successful studios bucket. usually where you find the people that have been doing it for a while as a business and they're like. Okay, I've gotta keep my business going. They kind of fall into that. We have lighting and camera skills. This is exactly what it sounds like. This is very foundational, where you get to be a lot of hands-on working with models, working with different gear, learning different techniques and skills. And then our last one we call specialty and technique. And this is might be like, well, I really like light painting. The whole class is focused on light painting. We have a class that's on web design and branding, SEO. So it's very focused on working through with photo biz. You're gonna have a either complete a website, rebuild it, or start from scratch and build a new website. So when you leave Texas School, you're ready to do that. Another specialty might be focusing just in on like volume or sports photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Cris Duncan:

It's kind of more niche. And so those big four tracks all have seven to nine instructors in them. That's how I encourage people to pick out a place like that. And I'll say all of our instructors are very open or open. You can call and ask them, Hey, tell me more about your class.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, that's cool. That's gotta be scary. So your number is just out there somewhere People can call and, and ask.

Cris Duncan:

Well, it's usually an email but yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a little bit safer for sure. Yeah. Tell me about, as an educator, what does this mean for you? Because you have the opportunity to share your knowledge

Cris Duncan:

Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

YouTube to potentially millions of people, but instead, by choosing to teach in person, you're cutting that number down from hundreds of thousands to a select few. What does that mean in terms of being able to teach people?

Cris Duncan:

Well, I think they're both valid. I can only speak for myself and I think this goes for the people that choose to speak at Texas School'cause a lot of'em could make more money doing their own thing. And some of'em have their own thing, but they come to Texas school. It's because that connection they make the student. And I don't wanna even say instructor student. it's not a hierarchal relationship. We're an equal relationship. But I don't know, Raymond, I mean, you have children, there's something about it when you taught them to ride a bike or fly a kite whatever it is. When they finally understand it, there's this like something in your heart that just explodes. Because you're so proud of this person, you've been guiding like, are they ever gonna get there? And when they do you're like, all this work and effort. And then you know, one day they're gonna teach their kid how to ride a bike or fly a kite. And so for me as an educator,'cause you talked about, oh, you really good at lighting. Well, it's been around way before me and someone helped me learn that part of the craft. And so when I can see someone else grasp it and that frustration falls from their face and that feeling of being lost and their craft just leaves their body and they're like, I get it now. I mean, that's like hitting a 300 yard drive. I mean, that's a rare feeling, you know?

Raymond Hatfield:

That's funny. We just watched the second Happy Gilmore yesterday, and I'm not into golf or anything, but, I got the reference. There you go. So, yeah, I would imagine that being able to have that one-on-one time, over a longer period, say a week, is it like, is it seven days worth of classes? or how long does that work?

Cris Duncan:

It is a Saturday through Friday if you choose to participate in the whole thing. We have what we call Texas School Saturday, which would most people would call like a pre-con. It's only a one day class. We have some larger classes that are kind of what you would experience at a conference on Sunday. They're 90 minutes. There's two of those on Sunday, and then Monday through Friday, you're with your one instructor for the week.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, okay. Yeah, so I mean, I would imagine that having say five days of time to really go deep into something, correct me if I'm wrong, is probably the difference between reading like the SparkNotes version of a book versus actually reading the book. Whereas like in some of these conferences that I've been to, going into even a 90 minute class, you think it's gonna be very intense and you're gonna learn a ton, but sometimes you walk away just feeling like. That was almost just like a YouTube video, like it was very high level. It didn't really go deep into anything. In fact, now I have more questions than I did before, and because the whole thing is set up for somebody to speak at me rather than with me. I left, I leave feeling unfulfilled, I suppose. And you don't want to do that. So I, yeah, I would imagine that having the five days with somebody to talk with them and share your experiences and get those answers is a huge, huge benefit. So, tell me from your perspective as an educator, do you have a story of somebody who maybe, they just weren't getting it and then, you were able to help them overcome that?

Cris Duncan:

Oh, there's numerous stories.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, perfect. You're the perfect person to talk to then. Yeah. Okay.

Cris Duncan:

year we would have a student at Texas school, and our class was pretty intense lighting. I mean, it was hands-on and it was technical, and I was using math and science and all the physics and all that stuff, and without fail, one or two students were in tears by the end of the first day. But the great thing is if they would've watched a YouTube video and been in tears, what would they have done?

Raymond Hatfield:

Continued to be in tears. Walked away. Yeah.

Cris Duncan:

nobody there to say, man, come on Raymond, I know right now this hurts. I know right now you think you're never, but trust me, if you'll stick with me, we're gonna get you to the point you want to be. And you can put your arm around them if they agree right, you can pat'em on the back and encourage'em. and that's what it makes it so special that it's that safe place to fail.'cause when that happens, it's not like, oh, look at that person that's so frustrated. Everyone's like, oh boy, I've been there. I remember last year

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Cris Duncan:

or whatever the case is. And so, because we, the world wants to tell us that we're the only one going through something, or they're only one that experiencing this, and no one else, everyone else is better than me and I'm never gonna get it. But the truth is, there's so much more that brings us together than separates us. And in a place like that. I

Raymond Hatfield:

that is a good point.

Cris Duncan:

that might do this too, smaller workshops throughout

Raymond Hatfield:

you again.

Cris Duncan:

at Texas School,'cause I've

Raymond Hatfield:

What is going on here? Let's see.

Cris Duncan:

is transformational. There's lots of ways to learn. There's lots of ways to get information, and I think that's where too many people stop. So as an educator and as a student, I feel that comes in three ways. The first is just information or just knowledge, that's just the facts. I can get the facts from watching a YouTube video and get it from reading a book. I can maybe get it from listening to a podcast, it's just information. Once you get, and even at going to a big conference where someone's talking from a stage to a room of 800 people, you're really just getting information. Very rarely can you get understanding which is this next level from an event like that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Cris Duncan:

And so at at a place where you can slow it down and you can ask questions, you can get feedback, you can work through a problem, that's where you get understanding. And I think that's where things start becoming transformational.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Cris Duncan:

And if you get to it, this is probably the lifelong journey. The third part of that is wisdom, and that's taking the knowledge, understanding, and then being able to use it in a way that's best suited for whatever position you're in at the time.

Raymond Hatfield:

It's funny. A few months ago, I did my first ever in-person workshop, right? So this was the first time we got together a number of listeners, and we tried to go over topics and I was teaching them as well. And it felt weird because as much as these topics are so familiar to, you and I, camera settings, like composition, starting to tell story with your images, you don't realize until you have to regurgitate that information in a way to somebody who has, you just have to assume no idea what any of this means. You realize not only how much you know, but how hard it is to explain sometimes as well. Right?

Cris Duncan:

Yeah. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, that's one of the reasons why I don't do many YouTube videos is because. I find that I go much deeper when I am in person with somebody and I can answer those follow up questions. Right? So it almost feels like whenever I would create a video, it would only be half information that would go out. It wouldn't be a full understanding of something that happens. And to me, it sounds like I was only able to get to that first level, which isn't actually impactful, it's just informational. And I think that that's really important for listeners as well to understand that while it's possible to learn something through a video or a podcast like this, it's not until you actually take action and try something that you start to gain that understanding. That is so important. So, can you some examples like what are some of the just example classes that students would be able to sign up for this year. Do you have any on hand by chance? I know I'm putting you on the spot, not like, yeah, I got a paper or anything set up.

Cris Duncan:

Well, we have over 30 classes and I'd

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Cris Duncan:

em all'cause I'm gonna forget somebody.

Raymond Hatfield:

Just two or three I think would be fine just to give us an idea.

Cris Duncan:

yeah, they're all listed@texasschool.org. You can find all of them there. We have one class. I'm really excited about it. Steven Stuckey, he's a new instructor. He's doing travel photography

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Cris Duncan:

so this is like how to leverage your camera when you're traveling and even try to turn it into making some money. That's our specialty track. He sells his work online and, makes almost six figures every year selling his

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Cris Duncan:

It's crazy. We have John Gress outta Chicago, who some of your listeners may know John. He does a lot of YouTube teaching, a lot of education, and he is like a lighting genius and some people might see his work and say that lighting's really advanced. But what John wants to do is break it down and help the person that's learning how to use strobe and electronic flash lighting and give them the tools and then grow off of. So excited to have John here. We have Julie Gaylor. That's kind of like John, just the female version of John. Really technical in lighting. We have Elizabeth Holman that's gonna be leading the class for a business person that's maybe like me that's been in business 20 years. I'm like, what's next for me to grow? And it's a mastermind class so you can develop a growth. The whole idea of her class is develop a growth plan, she's gonna be joined by David Hilton and Allison Tyler Jones. And students are gonna create their growth plan and then brainstorm it together and mastermind it together and leave with a way to grow their business.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a lot. That's a lot right there.

Cris Duncan:

is coming, focusing on high school senior photography. We've got Leroy tme who has turned a really high-end portrait business and branched off and now does school portraits and sports teams, more volume work that he doesn't have to pull, be the one pushing the button. He can train a staff to do that so he can take care of this, commercial photography architectural. So really,

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, it sounded like you were nervous about not being able to list all 30, but, uh, that sounded pretty close to 30 right there. Yeah, I think you got most of'em,

Cris Duncan:

Yeah, so I

Raymond Hatfield:

so

Cris Duncan:

one out of each track, so,

Raymond Hatfield:

that was perfect. So let me ask, this is, right now you're on the Beginner Photography podcast, right? Some people have only been shooting, six to 24 months. Is there space at Texas School for them? Yeah.

Cris Duncan:

Absolutely.

Raymond Hatfield:

What would you suggest for them, do you think? Should they just jump straight into, studio business or, should it be one of the more technical courses?

Cris Duncan:

know, I think each student has to make up their own mind. One thing that our instructors are really good at and we've asked'em to do, is when you read their descriptions, we've broken, they've broken down how much their class is gonna be, post-production, hands-on demo,

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah.

Cris Duncan:

there's certain, I mean, we might call it beginner, intermediate, advanced. There's lots of different levels, you know, in your growth journey. Just starting out, however you want to phrase it, that we have those kind of categories listed. And so there's classes that are for all levels. There's classes that are definitely for someone that's at a more advanced technical level but we break that up in the track. So you could be really great at post-production and not be really solid in your lighting or camera skills.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Cris Duncan:

So the class breakdown, we'll say this, is for someone that's advanced post-production, but not or this is for someone that is not an advanced in post-production, but has these top of lighting camera skills. And so,'cause it's very curated, each class is very curated. We have Steve Kozak there, he's been teaching there for 20 something years and his is always like learning the basics of your camera and your flash and your processes. And so, every year he's full of beginners or people just starting out with the craft.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Cris Duncan:

We have Gati Phillips who does an introduction to Lightroom. If you've been resisted some of the digital technology to, to make your images better and stuff, you know, he's a great place to learn some of that. We've got beginning Photoshop classes that, I wanna start working with layers and layer mask and maybe some mild compositing and such instead of just contrast and brightness levels. So there's definitely a place for everyone.

Raymond Hatfield:

it sounds like it. and I think that that, I hope will give listeners the encouragement to, to check it out because I think a lot of conferences or, yeah, just conferences, right? Where you're going there to learn something are more focused towards, professionals, right? Because it's easier to sell to professionals, right? They can use it as a write-off or whatever. And there's not really a lot of spaces specifically for beginners or that cater to beginners. So it's great to hear that, that is an offer for sure. But let me ask about if listeners know that they're gonna walk away with learning one thing, right? Whatever the course, promise is, whether it's learn how to shoot manual or whatever. If they know that they're gonna have five days to focus on that one thing and they're going to walk away with that. What are the secondary benefits of attending like in person education? Because I know that there's a lot having been myself, but like now, as talking to somebody who's the director of this, I want to hear it from you. Like, what are the secondary benefits of attending in-person workshops?

Cris Duncan:

Well, I think, and this might even be the primary thing, obviously, I, I think we go because we wanna learn and grow. And that happens. That definitely happens. But I think you leave with something maybe you didn't expect, and that's, you come in alone, but you leave with a tribe or with a community or a network of friends'cause everyone in that room has, is after the same goal. You're gonna experience the same frustrations. You're gonna celebrate the same successes. And when you do that with like-minded people, just relationships form. And so there's story after story. And this happens at a lot of events. Not just, it's not isolated. The Texas school, you know, there is story after story about connections being made and lifelong friendships being made because they had this, they had the same experience and they experienced it together. At the, many times people come back and they become roommates the next year, you know, to save costs on their hotel. They might take the same class again. They'll travel there together and there's story after story of that happening. One thing Texas School has done really well over its 50 year history is when the education's done. That's not the end of it. There's

Raymond Hatfield:

you mean?

Cris Duncan:

in the evening where you eat together. We have an opening party that we have a live band, and there's dancing and some fun games and good Texas barbecue. So there's those social aspects of it. The bar and I don't mean bar just like you have to drink, but just the gathering place in the hotel is always packed. You've probably experienced this, Raymond. I'm sure some of your listeners have that they've been to a live event. Sometimes you can learn as much talking from a colleague across the table that you might have learned that day in class.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, a hundred percent.

Cris Duncan:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

hundred percent. Yeah. So I'm gonna push back here, right? Because, I can hear the listeners right now in my head and they're saying, you know what, Raymond? Like, I wanna learn this thing, right? You know, I'm not going to make friends. Why is that so important? I understand that it might happen, but how is that a benefit as a photographer?

Cris Duncan:

I think it's a benefit as just a human. Just to not, not have to do stuff alone. I think starting out alone again is fine if you're gonna learn, watch some YouTube videos, read some magazine, listen to some things, maybe go to a conference and sit in the back of the room for 90 minutes. But that's not only gonna take you so far, think when you put yourself into a group that all has the common goal, you're gonna succeed. I think the motivation to try to keep doing it, if you're the only one doing it and you're alone doing it, harder.

Raymond Hatfield:

It is, yeah.

Cris Duncan:

think that's why, I mean, when people buy home gyms the first week, great and then it slowly, and then it becomes a place you put your sheets and your clothes and it's a laundry rack, right? I mean, I've been there too. I'm like, oh, I like, I want to go, I want a stationary bike. And you do it for a while and then you don't ride the bike anymore. when I enrolled in a spin class or I enrolled in a workout class, I'm like, I better go. Because if I don't, Raymond's gonna say, why weren't you at class on Tuesday?

Raymond Hatfield:

I will. Yeah.

Cris Duncan:

thinking, I'm not gonna go, but if I don't go, Chris is gonna say, why aren't you? And so, we grow more when we do it in a community.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I'll be honest, that's one of the reasons why I started this podcast, right? Like, I got into wedding photography, felt like, what am I doing? Like, am I doing any of this? Right? Like, I don't know. I went to school for cinematography. I don't know if I'm doing this. And I just wanted to talk to others who Had that knowledge who came before me to, to figure out if, if what I was doing was completely fraudulent or if maybe I was on the right track. And over the years, I've built some incredible relationships. Just, you and I, you know, we've met in person several times at imaging and, it is something that is fulfilling, and it's not something that I came into it hoping to get, but I will say that it has been a fantastic, benefit of, of starting a podcast and meeting together in person. So, let's assume here for a moment that people are listening and they're thinking, okay, I have a very specific problem that I wanna solve in photography. I'm going to look into, solving it, right? So they go a Texas school, what's the website? One more time.

Cris Duncan:

Texas school.org.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so they go to Texas school.org. They find themselves as a class that looks interesting. They go ahead and enroll. What's the next step? Like, what should they be doing? What should they bring? How can people make the most out of their experience at Texas School?

Cris Duncan:

Okay. Good question. First of all, I'd encourage anyone that's even considering going to Texas School to mark January 3rd at 11:00 PM Central their calendar'cause registration opens at that minute or

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Cris Duncan:

And many of our classes sell out within the first few seconds because they're

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Cris Duncan:

limited. Most of'em are around 24 to 27 students, and of'em are in higher demand and they can fill up fast. So first of all, don't say I'm gonna sit on it and sit on your, the class you want may disappear. So that's one way to make the most outta the experience. Second would be really understanding the things on the description of the classes. We have intensity level, which is how much physical activity is expected of you trying to get in one that really is your skill level. I mean, if I go golf or go skiing, I'm not gonna play the back of the tee box or ski on the black diamond. I just, I know that's not where I am. And it looks cool, but I know that's not right. So I get, you need to be realistic about where you are. I think that really helps cause you definitely don't want a student to come there and they think they're more advanced than they are and they become, they leave more frustrated.

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah.

Cris Duncan:

don't want that. But one thing about, path about what to bring that's gonna depend on each class. And we have amazing instructors, many of them that have taught there for many years, and I think they would come to Texas School for free. I wouldn't have to pay'em because they just love being a part of this experience, is they usually put together a Facebook group and the class meets before school. And say, these are things you need to expect. This is things you should bring. Some classes will expect you to bring your camera and you'll be photographing all week. And some post-production classes you won't be photographing, but you need to bring your laptop and your welcome tablet and have the software installed but our instructors are great about passing all of that along. So the one thing everyone needs to bring is a great attitude to learn, and probably a jacket, because hotels in Texas in the spring can get really cold.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. You know what? I will say, so last year, Imaging was in Dallas, as well. And, my hotel, yeah, absolutely frigid. And every time I would walk out, my glasses would fog up and I was like, what is going on here? This is the worst,

Cris Duncan:

yes.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is too funny. okay. Yeah. So bring a jacket, bring a light jacket. Can I ask, is there a standard as far as like, class size or do they vary? What's the average?

Cris Duncan:

The instructor gets to choose. We have some instructors that the concept they're doing, they wanna make sure that everybody has it and they like to have 15 or 16. Some classes, instructor will take up to 30.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow, that's so relatively a very small group. Really, really small, learning opportunity. Wow.

Cris Duncan:

I mean, there's a lot of time for individualized attention.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love that. You said that you've been teaching there, you've taught at Texas School for a while. Have you ever taken any classes,

Cris Duncan:

I have, I was a student for, three or four years before I became an instructor. So you want me to list who those instructors were or just.

Raymond Hatfield:

just like well, I kind of wanna know like, what was your, obviously you liked the experience because you continued with it. You started teaching and now, now you're the director. But, what do you think the biggest benefit was to you for attending?

Cris Duncan:

Validation maybe, is a good word. Maybe that's a good word. I don't know of a better word to think. When you think you want to get somewhere and you're not sure if you're there and you, then you realize you are there, you've kind of, you've grown to that level and you're like, again, it's hard to quantify. I'm like, oh, understand. Just that. I think that's been the biggest thing and we have a lot of people that return to Texas school. I took a couple classes more than once. Zig Ziglar, I, your, I know your listeners know Zig Ziglar, but he would have this thing, it says in times of change, the learner, will find themselves well equipped, right? The learned will be in a world that no longer exists. You have to keep learning and where I think some of us, and I was, I was the same. I would listen to somebody once and like, oh yeah, fantastic. That was just knowledge that wasn't understanding and I would, could only grasp the first 7% of what they taught, so I had to refill that, that knowledge, and then my understanding would grow a little bit and then refill it again and I could grow and grow so to me, that's what's exciting about Texas School is I go from that knowledge level to that understanding level, and everyone does it in different leaps based upon how much knowledge they came in with beforehand, so,

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I would imagine, well, that reminds me of that, I don't know if it's a Chinese proverb or whatever, but it's, that you never step in the same stream twice.

Cris Duncan:

Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Because the idea is that when you come back to that stream, you're a completely different person. Right? And, your perception of it has changed. You approach it differently, and you're gonna learn something different about it that time. Or you can never watch the same movie twice. You always pick out something new. And that is, that is so important. You know, I hadn't really considered the thought that some people just assume that they know what it is that they're doing and would kind of write off going to something like this. But, yeah, I mean, I know for myself, just having, as I said, attended, some conference classes, back in January at imaging, even though some of them didn't go as deep as I had wanted, they did provide some validation to me, letting me know, okay, I am on the right track. I'm not as lost as I thought that I was. And I would say that alone sometimes is worth the price of admission, even if you don't learn anything practical in that moment, because, I don't know, tell me if it's the same for you, but it almost gives you the go ahead to progress to that next level. Like, no, no, you're good with this. Now you can go ahead and move on to something new. Do you feel that way?

Cris Duncan:

oh, I think there's so much value we just in knowing, okay, I haven't wasted the last two years of my career doing everything wrong, you know?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I mean, who doesn't want that? You know what I mean? Who would not appreciate, yeah. Being told that they're doing a good job or that they haven't wasted their time, that they're doing the right thing. And then photography, which is so subjective sometimes. There's obviously a technical element to that, as far as exposure goes and, lighting ratios, as you know. But a lot of everything else is, is very subjective. And I think that's what makes learning photography so hard. And when we go on YouTube and we watch these educators who they're viewing the world from an entirely different perspective as we are, are teaching us something that maybe doesn't apply to us necessarily, or we can't wrap our head around how to apply it is just more confusing. So having a place to be able to speak in person, walk through those challenges is so valuable. So I'm really excited for you Chris to be able to go through this and I'm excited to hear some of the, students and their transformations as well. And, if anybody's listening who is going to Texas School, I would imagine somebody maybe like Marlinda who will be going to Texas School this year. Reach out to me and let me know kind of your thoughts and something that you learned as well. But, Chris, without having been to Texas School. I feel like I asked you all the questions that I wanted to know, but let me ask you, is there anything that I didn't ask that maybe you wanna make sure that people know?

Cris Duncan:

You know, I don't know. I feel like we've had a really great conversation. And I don't want this to feel like it's a commercial for Texas school. That's just the venue that being from Texas that I learned so much of my photography from and then was able to pass that on. And even as an educator there, you learn a lot just preparing your class for your students, you know? So it has been transformational for my business. One thing we're saying now is it's one week, but endless possibilities but whether your listeners can go to Texas school, or not, I hope they can. And if any of them want to talk to me on the website, there's a link. You can schedule a time to talk to me. I'm happy to talk to our, our customers. Make time for that. If you have questions or shoot me an email. I love talking this with anybody, as you can tell. But I think whether they can go to Texas school or not, to find somewhere in your area you can be around other people that are like-minded and try to learn something. Maybe you're the person that has to do it. Maybe you're the one that schedules a photo walk and you're gonna teach some of your fellow photographers how to expose for these buildings or this scenery in front of us and really create it. Organize a lunch and y'all can talk about a marketing plan that's, that's worked and help brainstorm with other creatives on a marketing plan or a product. Get away from the keyboard, get away from the screen, Get away from the earbuds and get, get with your other fellow creatives and, you're gonna be better for it. I hope it's Texas school, but if not, I hope you at least make the effort cause even a group or two or three is gonna be much easier than going alone.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, I mean, as the old adage goes, two heads are better than one. So, I absolutely believe that. Chris again, man. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing, today talking about the value of in-person education and talking about Texas School. Again, I know a lot of photographers have probably heard of it, but maybe they didn't know a lot about it, and now you've, you've shared that, you shared where we can find out more about Texas School. But one more time, feel free to let us know where we can do that or where we can find you online.

Cris Duncan:

Yeah. Texas school.org is the website. they can find all the instructors there. Our Texas School Saturday, our Precon, the list of the trade show vendors. All that information, is on the website. If you wanna follow Texas School that's on Instagram at TX school. And I'm Chris Duncan. Mine Instagram is CJ Duncan, and if you look for me, I'm Chris without an H-C-R-I-S.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right, your action item for today being if you implement just one thing today into your photography, it will move the needle forward, it's this, find a local photo buddy. I know this. Honestly, this may be the scariest action items that I've ever shared, but there are so many photographers out there and I would be willing to bet that there are a few of them close to you. So join a local photo club. If you don't know of any, call your local camera store and see if they can point you in the right direction. Search Facebook for any local photo groups and then attend one. See who's there, see who you click with. if there's no photo clubs well perfect opportunity to start one. I will say that when I was shooting weddings full time, there's this, I don't know, maybe it's this mental thing that I do where it's like, no, I can figure this out. I can figure this out. Whenever I was struggling with anything, getting clients, dealing with a situation, just trying to grow my business in some way, I can figure it out. I can figure it out, but when you attend these meetings, you realize, oh, other people are having the same problems maybe that I'm having. And it's a great place to just chat, feel validated in your feelings, and then also just kind of brainstorm ways, through any issues that you might have, so while I haven't been part of a photo club, I've been a part of many photo events, maybe more on the professional side, but I can still vouch for how powerful and helpful they are. So again, if there's no clubs local to you, seriously start one. This journey of photography is so much more enjoyable with a friend, and it doesn't have to be anything like super structured or serious. Even just meeting for coffee once every other week or so, to talk about a photo or two that you've made in that time is a great start and just a great way to connect, or going out to a local nature park and taking a few photos together. Like it's that simple. It doesn't have to be over the top. You can do this. You know, in fact, if you are local to Indy, feel free to shoot me an email at beginner photography podcast@gmail.com, and I would be happy to meet up and chat photography for a bit. Why not? I'm telling you, it's a great time. So there you go. I'm serious. That's all that I got for today. Until next week. Remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow. Talk soon.