The Beginner Photography Podcast

What Makes a Strong Photography Brand with Sandra Coan

• Raymond Hatfield

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#575 Sandra Coan is a seasoned film photographer from Seattle with two decades of experience in newborn, family, and classic portraiture. Sandra shares her inspiring journey—how she turned a creative passion into a thriving business, the challenges of building a successful brand, and the importance of letting your authentic style shine. As you listen, you’ll learn how to define what makes your photography truly unique, why focusing on what brings you joy can fuel both your growth and client satisfaction, and concrete steps for aligning your artistic voice with your business. Take Sandra’s wisdom and start building a brand that’s unmistakably yours.

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. The True Nature of Branding - Sandra explains that branding is not just visual identity (logos, colors, fonts), but the entirety of how your work, personality, voice, and client experience come together. Strong branding makes your photos instantly recognizable and helps build trust and authority with clients.
  2. Finding Your Unique Voice & Overcoming Comparison - The episode explores the challenges of staying true to your vision in a crowded industry and the pitfalls of copying trends. Sandra urges listeners to focus on what brings joy, to avoid unhealthy comparison, and to bravely lean into their unique point of view as artists.
  3. Business Growth through Authenticity and Consistency - Real-world examples illustrate how Sandra’s success grew once she committed to her personal passion—classic portraiture—and learned core business and marketing principles. A strong, consistent brand not only builds trust but also justifies higher prices and client loyalty.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Branding: More than just a logo or color scheme; it’s the complete representation of your business, including your style, voice, client experience, and consistent execution (episode context: stands out in a crowded marke
  • Comparison Trap: The tendency to measure your own success or worth against others, which often undermines creativity and confidence.


DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. What is your unique artistic perspective, and how do you communicate it in your portfolio and messaging?
  2. If branding is more than visuals, what are small changes you could make today to present a more authentic brand experience?
  3. When have you found yourself comparing your work to others, and what strategies could help redirect that energy?

RESOURCES:
Visit Sandra Coan's Website - https://www.sandracoan.com/
Follow Sandra Coan on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sandracoan/
Sandra Coan’s Educational Platform - https://www.sandracoaneducation.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Sandra Coan:

I do think that branding is something that really confuses people and people don't know what it is. So what branding is, your brand is everything. Yes, it's important that you have consistent logo, color palette, font, you know, all that kind of stuff, but your branding is you, it is your style. It is your work. When you have a really, really strong brand, then someone sees your image come up on their Instagram feed and they know right away that that is you, that is a strong brand. That's what branding is.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, guess what it is, Raymond, here. Welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn, well, what does it really take to capture beautiful images? And I share that with you so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we are chatting with newborn and family film photographer Sandra Cone, about how defining a brand for yourself can set you apart from others and help you to build a profitable photo business. But first, you know that the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Cloud Spot. With Clouds Spot, you can simplify your business With Studio Management Clouds Spot lets you organize clients, send professional contracts, automate invoice payments and more. So keeping track of everything in your photography business just got a whole lot easier. So grab your free forever account today over@deliverphotos.com, and then you only upgrade when you're ready. No matter how many times you've heard it, or maybe you've even said it yourself, the truth is your images, they don't speak for themselves. I mean, how could they as a new photographer, you're still trying to find your photographic voice. So the question becomes how do we get eyes on our work? Branding is a great way to build your reputation and what you stand for as a photographer. And today's guest, Sandra Cone, is the woman with a plan to help you out. Sandra is an amazing photographer and something that's a bit of a rarity these days. A family photographer who shoots primarily on film. In fact, I think it's exclusively on film. I could be wrong about that. But regardless if you think that it's hard capturing, sharp photos of kids running around on digital where you have like burst mode and stuff, then just take a look at Sandra's work and you'll have an immense amount of appreciation for the type of images that she captures and what it is that she does by shooting on film. Truly incredible. And that the shooting film, supports her brand too. It talks about being the kind of photographer who she wants to be, and I'm really excited for her to share with you how finding your own brand voice will help you to transform your work, your confidence, and honestly your bottom line. But first, a quick reminder that the Beginner Photography podcast is not something that you listen to and then never think about it again. Your time is too precious, so I, I encourage you to take listening seriously. I, I mean, Sandra has more than 20 years of experience as a working and profitable photographer, and she's sharing that with you today, all in the hopes that it helps you make something click, but things only click when you click them. When you take action on the things that you learn. So again, listen actively otherwise, you might as well just be doom scrolling and neither of us want that. You're better than that. Okay, with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Sandra Cone. Sandra, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. What an honor to be here.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, I'm really excited to chat with you today because, I want to know a little bit more about you and how you got your start in photography.

Sandra Coan:

I've always done photography Let me just start by saying that it's always been a part of my life. My dad was a enthusiast and we actually had a darkroom in our house when 70s, right? So the regulations on chemicals and stuff were a little bit more loosey goosey. So, uh, but I grew up around it. Right. And it was always something I had. I always had a camera. It was always something I loved, but, like I said, I didn't think of it as like a career option. And, in the nineties back in the day, I was teaching. I just started teaching kindergarten. It was my first couple years of teaching. I was paying, you know, my student loans and graduate school of a single time living in Seattle, which is a really expensive city. And I just wasn't making it on my teaching income. I was actually, as a full time teacher with a master's degree, I qualified for food stamps. Those first years. Yeah, it was rough, right? You believe? I mean, that's a whole, Like the conversation, and about this time, my friends were all getting married and my, my good friend Ginger had just got married and was expecting her first baby. And I said to her, Oh, you're so beautiful. We should do a maternity photo. Now this was the nineties. This was back before the maternity industry was what it is now, right? We were all kind of still reeling from that. The image that Annie Leibovitz had taken of Demi Moore, you know, remember?

Raymond Hatfield:

And yeah,

Sandra Coan:

Exactly. Right. So I said to Ginger, I'm like, Oh, we should take a photo like that of you. And she's like, yeah, let's do it. So we did. And we got really one picture from the whole session that was good or worth anything. But it was really beautiful and she loved it. And she's actually the one who came to me and said, you know, maybe you should think about offering this to other people because there's really nobody doing it. And I love my image so much and it might be a good way for you to supplement your teaching income. so much. And I was like, Oh, okay, yeah, I'll do it. So I took that one picture and I turned it into like a postcard with my contact information on the back. And I just put it everywhere, every coffee shop, every maternity store, every baby store, everything I could possibly think of all over Seattle. And, people started calling and, which was, shocking. I was like, but so I started there. And, maternity clients led to newborn clients, obviously, and then to family clients. And so within about three years of that, Well, it started about a year into it. I went to part time teaching and then about three years from that time, I quit my teaching job and, and launched my business. And so that's kind of how it happened.

Raymond Hatfield:

So when you reached out to your friend to do that first maternity shoot, it was just in just being friendly. Like, Hey, I have this camera. Let's just try something for fun.

Sandra Coan:

Exactly. It's like, you're so beautiful and you look amazing and let's do it. And she was like, yeah, let's do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, that's so awesome. That is so awesome. How like, I mean, obviously it's, it's a passion, right? It's something that you enjoy doing and, and that just proves it right there. But, I'm kind of wondering, like at that point, as you were still kind of learning photography, what was the hardest part, maybe about the technical side of photography for, for you to, to grasp or fully understand? Oh my God,

Sandra Coan:

all of it. All of it. Um, I

Raymond Hatfield:

didn't know

Sandra Coan:

what I was doing. I mean, I'm a 100 percent self taught photographer, self taught business woman, self taught all the things. And, yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. So, back when I got started, I mean, I am blessed, I think with a naturally good eye for composition and I've always been able to see light. But I couldn't explain to you what I was doing. Like in, in the beginning, I don't think I know for a fact, I didn't know what aperture meant. I didn't know the words. I didn't, you know, no shutter speed. I didn't know any of it. And, I learned as I went

Raymond Hatfield:

Did you ever have like this aha moment of like, Oh my gosh, everything is just starting to come together and make sense.

Sandra Coan:

I mean, yes, but it took a long time and you know, honestly, this is why I love teaching business actually just posted about this today in my Instagram. is the fact that I started how I did the way I did. and I'm here now just proves to me that if I can do this, literally anyone can do this because. there's no reason why I should be successful. You're

Raymond Hatfield:

just saying because you're self taught, there's no reason why you should be

Sandra Coan:

successful. Because I was so completely clueless, you know, at the beginning. But it, it is, proof that if you want this and you sit down and do the work, you can make it happen. So this is this, I'm just going to continue my story for a little bit and that it might be a good segue. Into the business side because I did I think what a lot of photographers did. I decided when I got started. So, okay, God, so I was doing maternity building that portfolio, right? Like building newborn portfolio out, without really realizing that that's what I was doing with not understanding branding or what that meant. I was branding myself as a newborn, a maternity photographer. Really back before there were maternity photographers. but when I made the switch to go to full time photography, when I quit my teaching job, I was terrified and I needed to make money. I needed to at least make what I was making as a teacher. You know, and hopefully more because, that wasn't a lot. and so I decided, I looked around and I was seeing like, okay, well, what are other photographers doing? Like people who look successful or people who seem like they're making money, what are they doing? I'm going to do that. And so doing that, chasing that, led me to shooting weddings. So what was hilarious about this story is that I'd been three years building this brand as a maternity and newborn photographer. And then when I launched myself as a full time photographer, I launched myself as a wedding photographer. I'd never shot a wedding in my life.

Raymond Hatfield:

You know, And typically your past clients, don't need wedding photos. No! I mean,

Sandra Coan:

it was just absurd, you know? But, so I did that. I shot weddings for a few years. I hated it. and I had gotten to the point, so in that time frame, I'd got married, I had had twins, and I was at the point where I was away from them all the time. I was working all the time. I was shooting weddings. And I just was miserable. And, and as a consequence, I'd stopped doing this portrait work that I actually really, really loved. And that's what, what started my whole journey. And so I got to the point I'll never forget. It was 2007 because my twins were not quite a year old yet. And I was like, well, this is ridiculous. If I'm going to keep doing this and if this is going to be a sustainable career and I need it to be, my family needs it to be, I've got to be happy again. And I decided to completely relaunch my business at that time and rebrand myself as a portrait photographer, go back to what I loved. And so I started there, just in time for the great recession. So

Raymond Hatfield:

perfect time. Like perfect

Sandra Coan:

timing for me with like newborn twins at home. No big deal. But then, yeah. And so I kind of rebranded then and built, began the, uh, What I have today so that my studio, I got a studio. and I just decided to ignore the trends, stop looking at what other people were doing, stop comparing myself to other people, and just get really, really clear on my vision, what I do, my voice as an artist and going with that. And that's also when I really sat down and decided that I needed to learn business. that was probably when I, you know, I was like eight years into that point. And that's probably when I was like, huh, this is actually a business. Maybe I should learn what that means. And so, right. I see. I told you if I can do this, literally anybody can. But so at that point I started studying and learning and I went outside or into industry and really just learned the fundamentals of business and marketing and branding. And so I was building my portrait business while I was studying all of that. And I think that's what took me to the next level because it was within like a year, year, two years of that where I, I really broke that six figure mark for the first time. And it's just been

Raymond Hatfield:

going after having been in business for eight years. It was that one year of really focusing on business marketing and branding that really took you above that, that six figure. Wow. Okay. So, so you talked a little bit there about, um, how when you decided to make the switch back from weddings to portraits that you decided to completely re brand yourself. So before we even get into re branding, let's talk about branding. So I reached out, to you, first of all, to chat about branding because this is what, this is the stuff that I'm excited about. And when I asked the beautiful people of the Beginner Photography Podcast Facebook group what questions they had about branding, every response was exactly the same. It was, what is branding? I have no idea even where to start. So before we go any further, let's answer that question. What is branding?

Sandra Coan:

Well, that's a great question. And I think it's something that a lot of people confuse, people oftentimes think that branding is their logo or their color palette or the fonts they use on their website, or their business cards, you know, like I will, I do one on one coaching with people and I'll sit down with people and they're like, Oh, I just did this big rebrand and it's still not working. And I'm like, no, you didn't do a rebrand. You just changed your logo.

Raymond Hatfield:

No wonder why it's not working.

Sandra Coan:

That's not a rebrand. and so I do think that branding is something that really confuses people and people don't know what it is. So what branding is your brand? Is everything yes, it's important that you have, consistent, you know, logo color palette font, you know, all that kind of stuff, but your branding is you, it is your style. It is your work. When you have a really, really strong brand, then someone sees your image come up on their Instagram feed and they know right away that that is you, that is a strong brand. That's what branding is. it's that consistency in your work. It's that, predictability. It's, reliable, those sorts of things. So it's a little more esoteric, I think, than, what people tend to think of it. As right, it's so much more. It's your personality. it's, you know, your client experience. It's, your copy, the word that you use when you are your business voice, on Instagram, on Facebook, on your website, it is all those things, all those come together to create your brand and who you are. Does that make sense?

Raymond Hatfield:

it does, yeah. And I think, I think what's interesting about that is that, because while you were talking I was kind of putting myself back into where I was when I first started and, also assumed that branding was just like a logo and like a cool tagline or maybe like a font that you used on your website. Yeah. And I think that it's easy to think those things because they're easy to check off of a list. Whereas everything else is like consistent editing style, what it is that you're posting and the words that you say on your website are, a lot harder to define because it comes from you personally and not just, well, I bought this logo off Fiverr and now I'm ready to go. Exactly. So yeah, it's much more

Sandra Coan:

complicated than that. And really developing a really good brand too. I think, it requires a certain amount of, Introspection and, bravery because, like my story, right, when I decided to like quit weddings, quit doing all the other things and really focus on what I was doing, what I didn't realize I was doing right then was developing my brand, coming up with my brand, working, with, okay, well, what is it that you do? Like, yes, maybe you're a wedding photographer, but what is your take on wedding photography? What is your style? What is your point of view? What is your passion? How does that come through in your work? Maybe you're a portrait photographer. I'm a portrait photographer. I'm a newborn photographer in studio, right? My work doesn't look like anybody else's work because it's my vision. It's my unique take on it. That is my brand my passion behind it helps create that. But getting to that point, it does take some, like I said, some introspection, some work. It's about figuring out what it is that you do your unique take on something, your unique point of view, and then being brave enough to do it. Because there's also risk in that, right? It's really scary. It feels so much safer to look at what is on trend, what are other successful photographers doing, and do that. But unfortunately, when you do do that, you just become one of many, because there's a lot of photographers who are coming that. You know, or who are doing that. So if you want that brand that really stands out, that is instantly recognizable that requires doing the work to make sure that you are crystal clear on your point of view, your unique take, and then you're brave enough to put that out.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So I'm going to ask you a really hard question here. What is one question that we can ask ourselves that forces us to look inside and come up with an answer for us to, better understand our brand or put it on our website. What is it that we're looking to do after that?

Sandra Coan:

Well, first of all to get there you have to sit down and ask yourself. What is it that you do? What is it that you do right and you can't say? Oh, well, I'm a photographer Or I'm a baby photographer or I'm a wedding photographer. No, what is it that you do? That's a hard question.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, Sandra, what is it that you do?

Sandra Coan:

What is it that I do? I am a, studio portrait photographer who specializes in film. That's what I do. My unique take is that I don't adhere to the rules of traditional studio photography in some ways. My work is about connection. It's about soulfulness. Is that a word? I don't know. It is now. It is now. That's what I bring. So yes, I fit inside the box of studio photographer or film photographer, but I bring these other elements into it that are uniquely me. The way I work with my clients, the way I see them, the way they allow me to see them, how I pull that out of people, how I can have a real traditional setup, but still have images that are modern and fresh. That's what I bring to it. That's my brand.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I could already tell just from the way that you described that, that it, there's just so much more information there that I now know about you and how you work and what it is that you deliver rather than just saying that you're a newborn photographer. So yeah, thank you for giving us more of a solid understanding of, of what branding is. Yeah. So branding is obviously like, it's a lot of things like we just talked about. Is there something that listeners can focus on when they get started in branding.

Sandra Coan:

Yeah. Focus on what brings you joy. Focus on what you love focus on what you do You know the thing that almost killed me and almost killed my business was me trying to be like everybody else But you know, I've already touched on and it took me deciding, almost like blinders You like when they put those blinders on the horses, yeah, so they can't look anywhere. I had to do that for myself. I had to stop comparing myself. I had to stop looking at other people and just really just focus like a laser on what it is that I love. What am I naturally drawn to do? How do I naturally want to shoot? I think, we all have different point of views. there's not. There are no two people on the planet who can see things the exact same way. I mean, that's amazing. And yet we all try to do what other people are doing. if we can just focus on that unique take and just really, hone it, create, make it the best you can possibly make it just like really build your unique take and your unique vision. I mean, that's where the magic is. And it's harder to do than it sounds. I mean, it's easy for me to be like, Oh, follow your bliss and you'll be great, you know, you'll be great. Even

Raymond Hatfield:

me talking to you right now, it's like, I feel like I've been in business for a few years and I kind of have an idea of what it is that I do, but I still struggle putting that down on paper, you know, figure out exactly what that is and and I know the feeling that I get when I'm at like a good wedding and I'm having fun and the couple's having fun and that everything goes well But writing it down in a way that I think communicates what makes me unique is uh, it is difficult. So understand that

Sandra Coan:

yeah, there's different ways you can do it in your brand. So you, you get that concept, right? And that should start coming through in your work. Your work should show your style, your point of view, what you believe in, but it should also be infused with who you are and your personality. And then you're right. Then you write it down, then it starts to come across in the copy that you have on your website and how you describe your work to your clients and how all of that should be working together. And then yes, then you tie in beautiful logo and a nice color palette, and it all starts to work together, right? Your words, your personality, your image, your point of view, all those other things, and that becomes your brand.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. You must see, like, a lot of other photographers, and their branding, what it is that either they send to you or just other websites that you look at. I don't know if you've still got those blinders on and that you're not looking at anybody else, but, there any mistakes that you see well established photographers making when it comes to branding themselves.

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, I fell victim to this, too I mean, I'm human right and I have taken the blinders off because that's part of my job You know,

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah,

Sandra Coan:

I go around and I'm you know speaking and I'm teaching and I'm interacting with people I'm working with people and I do look at other people's stuff all the time And I think that the worst thing that we can do is compare ourself to other people Compare our work to other people's work. I do it. I have a really established brand and kind of a killer business. And I still look at other people's work and they're like, Oh man, so good. I can be better. I could do better. You know, like that kind of stuff. And it's good to push yourself and to be inspired, but I say, don't, don't fall into that trap. There's that great quote where what is it like comparison is the thief of joy or something. I'm misquoting it, but I mean, it's so true. So, you know, Like, hard. And it's hard when you're an artist and your art is your business. Because you're selling a piece of you. I mean, that's really vulnerable and really hard and really scary.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, when it comes to mistakes that more established photographers are making, are you saying that maybe they spend too much time, selling themselves?

Sandra Coan:

No, I think it's important to sell yourself. I think any photographer established or not the mistake you make is questioning yourself. Oh, it's questioning what you do.

Raymond Hatfield:

I see. I see Okay, could be a tough one. That can be a time because that's like naturally what we as humans do yeah, so and as

Sandra Coan:

artists I mean like I always tell people being in business is like being in therapy man Because like just by definition because of what we do I mean it forces you to it like rub up against all your insecurities, it's rough. Yeah, we're crazy

Raymond Hatfield:

We're all crazy people and you got you got some good days that are just like you're just riding high It's like amazing and then you have other days where you just think you know, what maybe i'd be happier making 12 at starbucks

Sandra Coan:

I mean literally last year week I said to one of my best friends who's also in the industry, I was like, God, maybe I should just quit and be a barista.

Raymond Hatfield:

You said that to them? Why? What was it that you were feeling at that point?

Sandra Coan:

I mean, I, I have all the things too. Like one day you're like, I'm amazing. This is fantastic. I've totally got this. And then, you know, and then other days I'm like, this is exhausting. And I totally blew it. And I could have done a better job. Well,

Raymond Hatfield:

we can always do a better job, but it's good to, you know, give yourself that free pass and let yourself go from time to time. I want to know, because there are some photographers who listen to the podcast who honestly have no intentions of going into business. They have no intentions of making money, but they use photography just for fun, as a hobby. Maybe they post photos to Instagram or Facebook. Should those photographers be worried about branding at all?

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, I think if you're doing your photography well and you are being authentic to your voice as an artist You're building a brand whether you realize it or not Cause really that's, having those images that people are, that are instantly recognizable as you, that's building a brand. And, yeah. So even if, you know, it's not your intention to go out and create a business, listen, it was never my intention to go out and create a business. Here I am You never know But really it's just about that consistency and being true to your voice now another thing I hear a lot and I'm just throwing this out there Maybe this applies to some of your your listeners, but I hear from people who are just starting as well What if I love doing a lot of different things, you know? But if I love shooting weddings and I love shooting portraits and I love photographing dogs or, you know, whatever, then what do I do? How do I build a consistent brand that way? And, what I always say is even if you are photographing different things, you still have your style that you bring to it. like I'm sure like just the two of us, like if I were God forbid to go in and photograph a wedding, I would bring my point of view, right? Like my take on that and we would have a different experience, you know You can set 10 photographers in the same room all photographing the same thing and everybody's image is going to look different

Raymond Hatfield:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know if you've seen that. Uh canon, don't think it was an ad but it was a promotion where they took I think it was just that 10 photographers and they put them in a room with one subject But each time they told the photographer that the subject was something different. So like Oh yeah, the subject is like this high level CEO. Go ahead and like, go photograph him. Next guy was like, this guy's like an ex inmate, go ahead and photograph him. And each photo that came out, was really interesting how you could just see the, the story that was being told through the photographer's perspective. Oh, wow. No,

Sandra Coan:

now I'm going to have to go look that up.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to send you a link. I'll have to send you a link. I think it was on YouTube. It was from a few years ago, but it's still there. It's really interesting stuff, and it just kind of rings true to what it is that you're saying, is that we each have our own personal voice. and, um, We just have to find it and learn how to put it down on paper, I suppose. and even if you're not making money, you can still come up with that voice just, just through your images. So yeah,

Sandra Coan:

find your voice and then be brave enough to do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So that kind of brings me to, my next question, which is we hear a lot. And in fact, from yourself included, you said that photographers like to go through rebrands, right? Every, like, three or four years, we're like, Complete rebrand! I'm doing this thing. So, I guess for one, are those photographers truly doing a rebrand? Or is it that they are just bored of the colors on their website and that they're looking for something new? Because if our brand is our voice, how much are we really changing through a rebrand? we need a rebrand?

Sandra Coan:

Yeah. I personally think if you're changing your website, you're just changing your website. That's not a rebrand. I changed my, I changed my website all the time. cause I get bored of it and I get, you know, I want it to be fresh and, evolved, but my brand is consistent and the same. Who I am, my work, my point of view, all of that is consistent, the same. And I get a lot of pushback on this. I actually have a branding class actually on creative live, where, I got up and said, in front of like 70, 000 people in a live view, like, no, your brand's not your logo. And everybody was like, that's totally like, that is like, that is a part of it. You know, absolutely. It's a part of it, but that is not it. Like, it's not enough to say, okay, something in my business isn't working. So I'm going to change my logo and somehow that's going to magically fix the problem. That's not, that's not the rebrand. If something's not working in your business, you have a bigger problem than what your logo looks like, you

Raymond Hatfield:

know? Oh, of course. Yeah, nobody's not booking you because your logo is a teal. Because they're

Sandra Coan:

like, you know, the color palette just really isn't speaking to me, so.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. You know, if

Sandra Coan:

somebody's not working, booking you, then you are, there's something confusing in your messaging. Either your work isn't consistent or it's all over the place. They don't know what they're going to get from you. If you have a really strong brand, your clients should know exactly what their images are going to look like. Before they ever see any of it, like one of the things I do in my business, which people think is really weird is, you know, I'm a film photographer. So, but the end of a session with me, I haven't even seen the images. My clients haven't seen the images, it's like two weeks before. and yet I sit with people at the end of my sessions and we do their ordering session because my people are really busy. They don't have time to come back in and people order. Wall prints and albums and all of that before any of us have seen their work. All right. So why does that work? Why does that work for me? Because I have a really strong, consistent brand. People know what their images are going to look like before they ever walk through the door. That is branding. Not your logo and your font,

Raymond Hatfield:

right? Yeah, so kind of sub question there, are they just kind of reserving that they will have a 8x10 print or that they will have this? Because surely there's no way that they know exactly which, uh, which photos they want there.

Sandra Coan:

Yeah. So they say, Hey, yeah, I'm definitely going to want the album. And, that's what I sell the most of are my, my fine art albums. And then it, you know, a lot of my people don't even want to choose the images. They just let me do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, wow. How great. How great that must be. So then we just like put it together

Sandra Coan:

and yeah, it's everybody.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well then, I kind of want to ask a more direct question. You just shared an example of how building a strong, um, brand builds trust How can a strong brand make photographers more money?

Sandra Coan:

Well, that's all that all goes together, right? Because if you have a strong brand you have authority it creates authority it creates trust And it raises your perceived value. So people will come in and spend thousands of dollars ordering product before they've seen their images, for example, because you have authority because they already trust you listen, first of all, people want to do business with people they know, like and trust, right? We all know that and you create that no, like, and trust factor before people walk through your door, through your branding, through consistency, through your copy. Through the way you talk about what you do and how you do it, all of that kind of stuff. So everything you, you do, everything that you're doing in your branding, you are prepping your people to work with you. So all of it is work before they ever even get in front of your camera. And that does increase your, your value. And then suddenly people, aren't squabbling about pricing or any of that, right? Because you are an authority. The other thing, you know, when I went back and I was saying, with the The number one mistake I see people do is that they, they chase trends or they try to do what other successful photographers are doing and how that hurts you because you become one of many. Well, because becoming one of many is also, How you hurt your, your bottom line, because when you're one of many, that is when you're attracting price shoppers, because if you're just like everybody else, the only thing they have to compare you to compare you on is your pricing and what you're offering. Whereas if you have a unique brand, if you're something special, if you're standing out, well, then it becomes a matter of, no, I want that. And she or he is the only person who can give me that, and I want it, so I'm going to pay whatever I need to pay to get it. Right? you know, it's just like a fundamental difference

Raymond Hatfield:

in

Sandra Coan:

the expectation or even the desire to work with you.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. Yeah, no, it does make sense. I guess I, um, was asking too specific of a question when really it's it's not just like, here's branding. You're done. Fill this form out. Here you go. It does require a lot of personal work that you do gotta put in. Yes. It's like therapy. It's it's like, it's like therapy. It's like therapy. so yeah, do appreciate that answer. I definitely got something out of it. and. I will admit that I asked you the wrong question there. It wasn't a very good question, but you handled it with grace and you answered it very well. So thank you.

Sandra Coan:

Well, and I also know like sometimes when I talk about branding or I talk about these things, it feels a little bit like I'm talking about like fairies or something, right? Like it's kind of hard to, it's kind of hard to nail down because it is so subtle and there's a lot of nuance. And like you said, it's not just as easy as, fill this out and this is, your brand, there's a lot of introspection. There's a lot of, work that takes some time to figure out.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, then speaking of work, is there any action items that we should be doing after listening to this episode that we should be doing to, to get started, cultivating what our brand is or thinking about to start to cultivate what our brand is?

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, absolutely. come back to that question that, I asked at the beginning, like, what is it that you do? What is your unique take? What do you love? What is that thing that you could do over and over and over again, 8, 000 times and never get sick of it? really start paying attention to that and, write it down and start figuring it out. and the more intentionally you are about it, then you start to grow, grow this, like, um, I can't remember who, somebody asked me the other day, because I have been doing this forever. And I have a really simple set of, I have a studio, I have, a white backdrop and I have a gray backdrop, it's like my favorite thing in the world. And somebody was like, well, don't you get tired or, or sick of doing what you're doing and get kind of burnt out after almost 20 years. And it's like, no. I don't like that's because it's such a piece of me, you know, like I could take a family or a little baby and put them in front of a simple white backdrop. With the exact same lighting and do the exact same thing every single day for the rest of my life because I freaking love it Yeah, like I'm obsessed with it. I just I can't explain it It seems silly but it is such a part of what I do and how much I love it and and I believe so much in the importance Portraiture and getting one beautiful image from a session, I could go on and on and on. It is like, that passion is infused into my brand, into what I do, into my pictures. So I can put somebody in front of a simple gray backdrop, with one light and I'm photographing them on my Roloflex or whatever. And get giddy, like I get excited to do it every single time. Find that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Is it okay if we don't know what that is right now?

Sandra Coan:

It took me eight years before I even started like before any of this even like was like, huh, maybe I

Raymond Hatfield:

should

Sandra Coan:

And literally before then I was doing all the things that I just said not to do I photographed weddings I photographed real estate. I photographed events and parties dogs. I had like a whole dog thing. I don't even like dogs, right? So just to say, so absolutely, you know, like I said, it's easy for me to say, you know, follow your bliss. It's a lot harder to sit down and actually figure out what your bliss is. So to get back to your question, like what is an actionable item that you can be doing? Start paying attention to that. Start treating your art as what it is, which is an extension of you. And when you can pull that into your business, that's where the magic happens. And again, it's scary.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, no, for sure. It's funny because, I was really excited to ask you, what are some of the mistakes that you've made with your own branding, so that we know not to do, but, I think you just shared them all right there. I've made all the mistakes, friend.

Sandra Coan:

All the mistakes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, once again, as, as somebody who educates photographers on branding, you must hear from those photographers maybe other advice that they've heard. Is there any commonly bad information that you hear being taught about branding?

Sandra Coan:

People, I think get told that there's one thing, one way to do something. And that they have to do it this way to be successful. And that's not true. That's my belief anyway. There's no one way to do it, right? We're all like special little rainbows Everybody's a little different just go with it So actually just to to talk about this for a second if I can go off on another thing like I do I love them. Yeah my assistant and I were laughing yesterday because I was trying, I was attempting to do like an Instagram story and I was showing like a lighting setup and all this stuff. And I got stuck inside the soft box and I was tripping over things and I, like I got tangled in my camera strap and my light meter strap and all this stuff and, I realized like I do that all the time. Like I'm like clumsy, like I'll be up on stage at a conference and like, I'll trip over something or I'll knock, something off the podium or whatever. That's who I am. And she was filming all the behind the scenes, me getting stuck in the softbox and all the things. And then we got done recording it. I was like, you didn't post that. Did you? And she's like, yeah, I posted it. She's like, that's part of your brand. You're kind of a disaster. Somehow you make it work. And I'm like, okay, that's part of my brand, I guess. So

Raymond Hatfield:

endearing. Yeah.

Sandra Coan:

No, it is like, I'd like, I have bruises all over my legs because I literally run into things all the time. That's who I am. So I think, think the mistake that people make is thinking there's one way to do it thinking that you have to be perfect thinking that you have to be polished, you know, just be yourself and if if yourself gets stuck in a softbox sometimes, you know

Raymond Hatfield:

Post it on instagram

Sandra Coan:

just post it on instagram. That's who you are. My lighting's really good It's just sometimes I get stuck inside a softbox.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, they can be big softboxes. I understand it It's really hard It's hard to set up. Okay, i'm sure you have one of those like eight foot like big ones that you put right in front right

Sandra Coan:

I do. I have a giant seven foot one and it's got all the spokes and it's like wrestling with an octopus trying to get that thing up. It's terrifying.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've never wrestled with an octopus, but I can imagine. I can imagine what it would be like. That's funny. Yeah. there was anything that like after all of this, like you're here today, is there anything that if you had to do it all over again that you would do to change, to get to where you are today, but faster?

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, when I first started taking money from people, I would have realized that the fact that I was taking money from people in exchange for photos meant that I was in a business and I would love to have gone back and sat down and started studying business at that time, you know, instead of waiting eight years. running around trying to figure it out. Like the one thing. Yeah. Like

Raymond Hatfield:

about business that you think is, it's just like a really good starting foundation.

Sandra Coan:

Well, understanding what branding true branding is,

Raymond Hatfield:

is

Sandra Coan:

really important. understanding marketing and what marketing is and the concept of, content marketing and all of that. That's a whole nother podcast. We could do that. I could talk about marketing all day because it all goes in

Raymond Hatfield:

the

Sandra Coan:

box, right? Because it's like a three part thing, right? You have to know what you do. That's the branding piece. You have to know who your people are and then you have to know how to communicate what you do to your people. And that's the marketing piece.

Raymond Hatfield:

See, if you would ask a lot of the listeners about marketing, they would say, Oh, it'd be like a Facebook ad or, something that you put on Instagram or something.

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, it's much so much more than that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Once again, you're kind of tying it back to being more introspective. And I think you're solidifying that idea of therapy to the list. Yeah, it is being

Sandra Coan:

a business. It's like being, it's like signing up for lifelong therapy.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, it's just the truth. Throughout your whole career as a photographer, want to know what the best investment that you've ever made in, whether it be in money, time, or energy? Oh, God, that's a really good question. I stole it from Tim Ferriss. So don't don't don't give me the credit.

Sandra Coan:

Well, well done, Tim Ferriss. I think for me, for my work, personally, learning how to use lighting, I was terrified of lighting for so long. And I would just like, Tell everybody it was a natural light photographer. And I, you know, I was kind of smug about it, but really that was just code for, I actually don't know how to use lights and they terrify me. and when I just like got over myself and decided to learn it, it like changed my life. So learning that, yeah, really worth it.

Raymond Hatfield:

When was that? How long ago?

Sandra Coan:

Probably like seven, eight years ago. I mean, are you, are you noticing a trend with me by the way, where I spend like a ridiculous amount of time just trying to figure it out on my own. And then I'm like, Oh, I guess I should actually just like learn that. And then it changes my life. Yeah. So learn from me, and don't spend all that time trying to figure it out on your own. Don't you wish you could just

Raymond Hatfield:

like know right now, like, what is it that I'm not paying attention to right now? Because that's probably the most important thing. Yes! Oh my god, yes. That's funny. Absolutely. Well, Sandra, I gotta say, everything that you've shared today has been very helpful. I'm sure not only to the listener, but to me as well, honestly. I learned some things. And I know that I need to go back to my website and maybe do myself a rebrand and get a new logo and, uh, no, but, uh, there's obviously a lot of questions that I need to ask myself, going forward just to, just to work on building a better brand. And I know that the listeners picked up a whole bunch as well. So thank you so much. I got one last question for you. Is there anything that I didn't ask you today that you want to make sure that the listeners know?

Sandra Coan:

Yeah, absolutely. So if you need more help, I have an entire website that I dedicate just to other photographers. Speaking of branding, I kind of separated my brand into two pieces. I have Sandra cone photography, which is for my clients. And now I have Sandra Coan education. com just for photographers. And I talk about all this stuff all the time because I'm actually. Like I said, like strangely passionate about it. So there's a lot of great resources for, photography and lighting and business and all those things that you can find there. And I'm also co owner of a company called lady boss workshops, where we just kind of take this one step further. It's myself and my business partner, Elena S Blair. And we again, we teach about marketing and business and all these things together and you know, it's primarily that part of it is primarily focused for, female photographers because this is still a really male dominated industry and we want to see more women being empowered to create killer businesses that they love and that are profitable. However, that said, we have a lot of what we call bro togs in the group too, our man and they are, of course, always welcome.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's funny. I was just imagining, like that movie, the little rascals from like the nineties or whatever, how they had their, their no girls allowed club, uh, the he man woman haters or something like that would never fly in a movie today if you were to write

Sandra Coan:

that down.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's funny. Well, again, Sandra, though, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Alright, this week's action item. Meaning if you implement just one thing in your photography this week, let it be this one because it will inevitably move the needle forward in your work. It is this, write down three things that you absolutely love to photograph. Photography is a mirror, remember, so when we define what it is that we love to shoot, we're also kind of defining ourselves. So grab a pen, a paper and set a five minute timer and write out everything that you love about photography from the types of sessions to style to, uh, types of moment, format and medium, like how dangerous shoots on film. Or even just write down the types of subjects that you like to photograph. I mean, write down anything and everything that just brings you joy when it comes to photography. When your timer goes off, then go ahead and take that list of everything that you wrote down and try to narrow that down to just three things, your top three things, and now use that list of the top three things that you love most about photography and create a roadmap for the types of projects that you want to shoot or the type of clients that you want to attract. This right here is the foundation for your brand and when you're done, I would love to hear'em. So feel free to share your three things that you love most about photography in the Beginner Photography podcast community. It is free and it is the safest place on the internet for new photographers like yourself, which you can join myself and more than 6,000 other listeners by heading over to beginner photo pod.com/group. Again, that's beginner photo pod slash group. We'd love to have you. All right, that's it for today. Until next week, remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.