The Beginner Photography Podcast

Photo Q&A: How Do You Keep Kids Smiling and Still During a Photo Shoot?

• Raymond Hatfield

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#562 In Today’s Episode of the podcast I chat with YOU as I dive into your most pressing photo questions. I take listener-submitted questions and share advice, stories, and practical strategies based on my own experiences as a photographer. Whether you’re wrestling with when to put a signature or logo on your images, trying to wrangle energetic kids during a family session, or feeling overwhelmed by all the technical settings on your camera, I’m here to help you navigate those common hurdles.

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. Signature & Logo Usage on Photos - Raymond explains when photographers should (and shouldn't) add their signature or logo to images, distinguishing between branding needs and concerns over theft. He notes that landscape photographers may benefit more from signatures due to wider image use, while portrait photographers often don't need them unless for advertising.
  2. Managing Kids in Family Photography - The episode offers strategies for keeping young children engaged during sessions, such as making games out of posing or incorporating playful pranks to elicit natural smiles and genuine interaction. These methods lower stress, capture better moments, and leave clients happier.
  3. Tackling Technical Overwhelm and Regaining Enjoyment - Listeners struggling with camera settings (like manual white balance, exposure, or composition) are advised to simplify their process—using presets, prioritizing aspects like “moment” over technical perfection, and even shooting for fun with fewer controls, as with film or point-and-shoot cameras, to restore joy.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • White Balance: A camera setting that adjusts color temperature to render whites correctly under different lighting conditions, measured in Kelvin.
  • Client Closet: A collection of clothing offered by a photographer for clients to use during shoots.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. Why might you choose to add (or not add) your signature to your images?
  2. How can playful interaction with children change the outcomes of a photo session?
  3. In what ways do issues of confidence versus competence appear in your creative process, and how can you address them?
  4. What steps could you take today to get more photography clients, inspired by Raymond’s strategies?

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Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Raymond Hatfield:

Everybody wants to be the noun, but nobody wants to do the verb. Everybody wants to be a professional photographer, but nobody wants to get in front of people to ask them to book a session. Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and today I'm answering all of your questions in this month's photo q and A. So once a month I ask you for your burning questions in photography, and right here I answer them. I am a firm believer that if you have a question about something, especially maybe photography's a new hobby for you, there's a lot of unknowns. There's a good chance that there's a million other people who are wondering the exact same thing that you are. So why not help everybody out by answering your questions right here so that everybody can learn and grow. I mean, we all have the same goal, right? To become a better photographer. That's it, and that's all. So why don't we go ahead and get on into helping you figure out your biggest photo hangups. All right. The first question here today comes from Michael McLaughlin. Michael asks, when is it appropriate or not appropriate to include a signature logo on your photographs? Great question. So I think we've all been on Instagram or Facebook and we've seen photos posted and they have a nice little signature. even this is just something ingrained in us as kids. I remember, in art class, in first or second grade, whenever we'd make a painting or something, we'd always sign it with some sort of like, cool crazy signature, because that's what like artists did. So why not bring that into photography? Right. I totally get that. So, to directly answer your question, when is it appropriate to add your signature to a photo? The short answer is anytime you want, honestly. And when is it not appropriate? Well, I have some rule of thumbs as to when I would either put a signature or a logo on my images and it would, it would just be a signature. But the rule of thumb for me was if it was for advertising purposes, like I. Facebook ads. Maybe it was in print, maybe I was creating a flyer or I was doing a bridal fair, or I was doing some sort of sponsorship and they needed an image. I would include it, but then I wouldn't use it any other time. And my thought really is like, I wouldn't put them on the images on my website. I really wouldn't do it for social media. And I guess my thought is like, I'm not Picasso, right? People aren't looking to actively come after my images to steal them. I don't need to put my signature on my images, especially with how easy it is to today to just use something like AI to create photorealistic images. I think that the number of images that are gonna be stolen by other people are going to go down significantly because, if you're a new photographer, okay, so that, that's who steals the majority of images, right? New photographers, they think I'm a great photographer. I just don't have the portfolio yet. So let me just borrow some images from somebody else of a similar visual style and then, like I'll book a view shoots and then I'll replace those images with ones that I've actually shot. Totally wrong, right? Still totally wrong. But now it's like, why would you do that if you can just create photorealistic images in AI and then claim them as your own? It's a whole lot less work than it sifting through websites and trying to find images and, all that stuff. So I'm not too worried about putting my signature on my images. And plus like a signature or a logo is more for like branding purposes. Oh, but I, I guess I will say that I'm coming from the world of wedding photography and again, really the only people who are going to steal images of somebody else's wedding, because the couple's already paid for them. So the only person who's really gonna steal images is gonna be another photographer who's trying to grow their portfolio. So, I will say that for landscape photographers, it probably makes more sense because your images are just, they're more places they can be relatable to more people. It doesn't have somebody who they don't know who's in these images might want to use it for their desktop wallpaper or, anything like that. So, so sharing. Maybe landscape images on social, it might make more sense to put on your signature so that people understand that it is your image. But again, for like portraits and families and things like that, I typically, I wouldn't put it on, but at the end of the day, I mean, you are the photographer and you get to make choices on how your business, how your work is represented as an artist, and therefore you can kind of do whatever you want. Those are just kind of my rule of thumbs, like how I would approach it. But again, ultimately the choice is 100% up to you. All right, let's move on to question, number two, which comes from Kaya Dorsey. Kaya asks any recommendations for kids to sit still? When I'm doing family photography, I can't really get kids younger than 10 to focus for long enough to get good picks. Yeah, man, I get that. I just photograph my own kids and they're rambunctious enough and I'm not trying to get them to sit down and pose for like, anything professional or like, where there's the weight of me being a, professional and there's money behind it and like I have to deliver something, right? These are just my kids and it's hard enough to photograph them. So, a few things for you. One, I would encourage you to go back to listen to my interview that I did with Philip Bloom about, his mini sessions that he does. Philip and his wife Eileen Bloom, do family photography and he shared an amazing trick that I think, that he says works I mean phenomenally every single time. So what he does is when he first shows up to a shoot, he will try to get on the kids' good side. So the first thing that he'll do, even before talking to the parents, when the kids show up, he will take them aside and say, Hey kids, I have this idea. I want to prank your parents, but I need your help. Kids being kids, they want to play. So they're like, oh, this sounds great. Like, yeah, what do we need to do? And then that's when he would say, okay, we're gonna pretend to pose like in this very stiff, happy family photo. And then when I say three, I want you to tickle your parents, but first you gotta pretend like we're gonna take a really nice family photo. So then he sets everybody up, the kids are all excited. He gets'em over there and he is like, all right, we're gonna take our photo here, and then everybody smile. Everybody smiles, right? He takes a few photos and then he is like, 1, 2, 3. And then all the kids start tickling their parents and all the things. So now not only did he get that quote, unquote frame worthy photo of the kids sitting still because they thought that they were playing a game. But now he's able to get in close and get these fun interactions between the family and the kids and laughing. And that's just more photos to deliver as well. So I think that that's a great trick that you can go ahead and try. But then also, just remembering that like kids. I'm sure I don't have to tell you kids want to play a lot, right? So, I had another photographer on who talked about doing these, she'd play like, games with them, something like peekaboo where they'd hide their face and then you'd say, okay, when I say, peekaboo or whatever, open up your face and give me a crazy face. And then they'd give something crazy and be like, now give me a happy face, and then they'd move their hands, and then it would just be like a regular, happy face, and then you'd get that photo and then you keep trying all these variations. So rather than trying to conform them to like, okay, sit still and do exactly what I say, it's almost like some mind trickery, some Jedi mind trickery of getting them to play games, but also do so in a way that allows you to get what it is that you need. So start thinking about those types of ideas and you'll be able to get kids on your side. which again, I'm sure sounds easier than what it is, but I'm confident that you can do it. Those are some great tricks that I would encourage you to try and again, go back and listen to that episode with Philip and Eileen Bloom. Next question comes from Connor Cook. Connor says, I got my first quote, unquote real camera in January. I'm now trying to work out how to render colors correctly with manual Kelvin's selection, manual Kelvin selection being, your Y balance. He goes on to say, I'm not always happy with the auto selection. I take pictures in all manners of locations and lighting. I shoot jpeg just to remove the addition of learning post-processing. For now, I love it. Great idea. How do I manage or learn to manage all of these things? Meaning moving from focusing, to capturing highlights and shadows, to managing white balance in addition to composition and the decisive moment in a way that lets me just take the picture that I want without forgetting whatever the last element that I worked on. Connor, it sounds like you are in the thick of it right now, ma'am. When I think back to some of the easiest times that I ever had when photographing, it's when I'm shooting film. There's a lot less decisions that you have to make when shooting film and, two of them being your ISO and your White Balance, because those two things were set by whatever film you chose to load into your camera that day. So if you're shooting in Aperture priority, at that point, all you have to worry about is composition and moment. A lot of people don't know this, but film came in two white balances. That was it? Tungsten and daylight. Tungsten,'cause you were either shooting indoors or daylight because you were shooting outdoors. Again. That was it. When I look at my digital camera today and my Fuji XT four, the camera's white balance in the Kelvin Scale goes from 2,500 all the way up to 10,000. That's 7,500 different possibilities of white balance. And the thing is, is that our eyes are so good at determining what is white that we have a hard time understanding white balance because a white balance in a camera is a scientific tool that needs a specific Kelvin inputted into it so that the camera knows, well, what color here is white? So, because there's this discrepancy between what our eye sees, which is white and what our camera sees, which may be blue or too blue or too yellow. I would say that it's next to impossible to look at a scene and say, this is the exact Kelvin white balance that I need to set my camera at. So because of that, I don't, is it nice to have the possibility of manually selecting my white balance for a creative effect? Yes it is. Do I set it for every shot that I take? No, I don't. Do I set it for any shots that I take? Honestly, no. Your camera has preset white balance options. Right? And I would say that even my Fuji camera has way too many, But again, let me preface this by saying that what I shoot does not have to be scientifically color accurate. What I shoot has some artistic freedom in it. I am not shooting products for a national campaign. I'm not photographing works of art that are hanging in a museum. I'm photographing life. So again, there's some artistic freedom in it. So I set my white balance to one of really three things. It's either tungsten,'cause I'm shooting indoors, or LED depending on the type of light that is indoors or if I'm outdoors, cloudy and that's it. I don't want to overcomplicate things. I don't want the camera to get in the way of me capturing a photo. So since you are not happy with the auto selections, which I agree, I'm never happy with auto white balance either because my images come in a set of images rather than just one-offs and therefore just those micro adjustments. You can absolutely tell when you're looking at a series of four or five images that, that the white balance is all different for each of them. So I set my white balance for one of the baked in presets into the camera, cloudy, if I'm outdoors, tungsten, or LED, if I'm indoors, depending on what type of light is indoors. And again, that is it. Now, I would say that if you want complete control over your image, you need that scientific color, accurate color, then you're gonna have to give up some control that you know you can't do all of the things. If color is the most important element of your photograph, if then you should be focusing on white balance. If moment is the most important element of your photograph, then you should be focused on on moment and be okay if the color is a little bit off, if the shutter speed is a little bit too slow. If the composition isn't perfectly within the golden ratio. Don't overcomplicate it. Stick it to one of those presets and just go out and have some fun. So Connor, I really hope that that helped. By the way, if you're listening and you have a question that you want answered here on the show, you can submit your question by hitting over to beginner photo pod.com/qa. Again, beginner photo pod.com/qa to submit your question to be answered here on the show. Alright, next question comes from Deidre Walt. Dere says, Hey, Raymond. Hey, dere. My question this week is about client closets. One, how do you tell your clients about the clothing that you have, meaning phrasing and examples, and two, how do you show them meaning pix of it being modeled or on the hangar? Thanks. Okay, so, before we get into this, I've never done a client closet, so take what I say for what it's, but you have a service that you're offering, meaning you have clothes that look good, that you want to offer to your clients to wear during the shoot so that it's one less thing for them to worry about and you ensure that you get better photos. So if this is a service that you offer, make it a good service. Make that service known. Let it be known everywhere. Make a page dedicated to it on your website. Be sure to mention it in the booking process of your website on the contact form. List it on the homepage. Say that you offer a client closet to allow your clients to pick out something beautiful without them having to spend extra money on something new. Whatever the reason that you have it, like let it be known. Talk about it on social. If you have a client that is using something from your client closet in one of your photos, talk about it there. Hey, this family looked absolutely beautiful and look at mom's dress. She pulled it right out of our client closet. Couldn't have been a better choice. It doesn't have to be a ton, but just mentioning it casually will, again, reinforce the people reading that you have the service to offer. And then how do you show this to people? Honestly, what I would do, I would probably just go to Etsy. I would look for some sort of Canva template for a client closet. I'm sure that there's a million. In fact, I'm gonna look it up right now and see.com. Client closet template. Oh, a hundred options. No wait. Does it say exactly how many options there are? It says a thousand plus items are available. Yeah, and I mean, I'm scrolling down tons and tons and tons of options. So what I would do is I would go to Etsy. I would search for client closet Canva template. Buy whatever template looks the most pleasing to you, and then go ahead and drop in your images into that template. If you have images of a client wearing something. I would show that if you don't, I would show it on the rack. I mean, people buy their clothes by looking at it on a rack anyway, so like they're gonna have some sort of idea of what it could look like. So, I mean, just put all those photos together in this template. You know, it's gonna be drag and drop. It's Canva, it's, it's relatively easy. And then share that. Once somebody books their session with you, send them that PDF of all the options for your client closet. Ask them directly if they plan to use it, if you're having that email correspondence, like talk to them about it and then when they arrive, snap a few photos of them maybe going through the rack, looking at different clothes, different options, and then you can use those photos on your website. When you're talking about the client closet, you can use those photos on social when you talk about, Hey, by the way, we offer a client closet and just let it be known. So there you go, dg. I hope that that helps. Alright, next question here comes from re Wolf. Asks, how can I tell the difference between lack of competence and lack of confidence? Ooh, so many other people say that they love my work, quote unquote, but after more than a decade, I'm still profoundly insecure about my digital technical skills that I have lost any sense of fun or play or satisfaction. I shot film for many years before digital until last week or so I assumed that this lack of confidence, or this feeling that I'm feeling was because my technical skills were not where I wanted them to be. But now I'm wondering, is it my lack of confidence that is preventing me from experiencing what I'm accomplishing? Hmm. I want to take more risks by photographing what I actually want, but I think if I'm completely incompetent, what's the point? Wow. Well re I doubt that you're incompetent with a camera. If you've been shooting for decades, if you've been shooting since film again, you probably have a lot more experience than you think that you do. It sounds to me like you just need to shoot for fun. You said that you want to take bigger risks and shoot the things that you want, so why not do that? I shoot in a very non-technically perfect way. To me, when it comes to an image, for me, the ends justify the means. So is the composition a little wonky? Is it a bit underexposed? Is it a bit grainier than, again, is perfect maybe. But is there a solid moment? That's what I look for. What's the most important thing in the image to me? When I do shoot for technical perfection, I find that I, I don't like my images. There's no life in them. But also unless you're taking full control of the image, full control of the moment, full control of the light. You have to give up some control. It can't be 100% technically perfect every time by happenstance. You're gonna show up and you're gonna find something interesting that may be in some open shade, but the background is gonna be totally blown out because that's in full sun. If you're not going to take control of that light, then you have to be okay with it not being, technically perfect. So I think that that's probably step one is give up some of that control, but then you need to bring more fun into your photography. One thing that I did shortly after getting outta weddings, where weddings are an area where you do want to focus on technical proficiency on top of moment, otherwise, anybody with an iPhone is gonna be able to deliver just as good of an image as you're able to do. You definitely don't want that when the couple is paying you a good deal of money to, to photograph their wedding. So when I got outta weddings, I was kind of in a similar space to where you are, to where I wanted my photos to be more technically perfect. And unfortunately, I lost a lot of moment in those images. I lost a lot of what I love most about photography when I was just photographing everyday life. And my kids. So what I did was I just bought a point and shoot film camera. Why did I do that? Because it took away all of the control for me. It took away I. The need to adjust my shutter speed, it took away my need to adjust my ISO. It took away my ability to change my aperture. Same with my white balance. So all that I had left was composition and moment. So within those boundaries, I focused on being in the moment, being in that real world, looking at my kids in a certain way, waiting for something to happen and then just being ready with the camera. When it did happen, I, I snapped the photo again. If the composition was a little bit off, if the photo was underexposed, well that wasn't on me. That was the camera. If the composition was a little bit off, well, the viewfinder has this weird parallax and I tried my best and that's it. But I can't go back and change it. It is what it is. But I was in that moment, I was with my family and I had a great time. Once I did that for a bit, a weekend, a month, two months, whatever it takes for you to actually find that you're having fun again while shooting is exactly how long it will take. Once I did that though, it wasn't enough. I wanted more than just composition and moment, and then that's again, when I brought out my Fuji cameras, the cameras that I were used to. I reintroduced some of that control. I was better at seeing the moment, I was better at seeing, just life happened in front of me and I was better at capturing that. So now I brought in the control that I had with my Fuji cameras. I was able to shut, set my shutter speed, my aperture, my ISO, my white balance. I was able to do more things. I could have a slow shutter speed to introduce motion. I was able to open up my aperture to have that shallow depth of field. I could do more things, but I changed the way that I was approaching the image to find what was most important. I. What was it that I loved? Not necessarily what everybody else loved what I loved, and then I took the tool that I had being the camera, and then built upon that to be able to bring a level of visual interest through my camera settings. So maybe take a weekend trip somewhere and just walk around and shoot whatever your eye is gravitated towards. Make this place like at least two hours away, someplace that you're not familiar with. Turn off your phone and just explore and honestly, some of us are more critical of our work than we are of others. That's me too. When I look at some of my wedding work, I think to myself horrible things about these images, despite clients telling me that they love them. And that's something that we just have to work on internally. That's not a photography thing that we can improve upon. That's a personal issue that we have to work on, but we gotta try something. So maybe get yourself that point and shoot film camera so that you can remove that ability to overanalyze yourself. And go out for a weekend and just try to shoot and not think about anything technical. And I think that you'll find that even having removed all ability to technically create a perfect image, you're still gonna be able to get images that you like, which is going to boost that confidence because it's gonna prove your competence. So I hope that helps. All right, our next question here, and this is gonna be our last question today comes from Tracy mc Carrier. Tracy asks, how do you keep from getting discouraged about a lack of clients? Oh man, Tracy. I have been there. I have had some wedding seasons that I thought, how am I going to make this? I look at other photographers and think, how are they booked solid? And it sucks. It does, it really sucks. It sucks to feel like you're failing. And I totally get that. But after one particularly terrible wedding season, where the wedding season before, I think I had 30 weddings. That next season had like eight booked and I was like really nervous. It was real bad. I was driving somewhere and I saw a billboard for McDonald's and I thought to myself, are there people who don't know about McDonald's? Like, no, that can't be, people know about McDonald's. It's been around, what, 70 years now at this point? So I had looked it up. And in 2024, McDonald's spent$1.2 million a day just in advertising. And here's the thing, everybody already knows about McDonald's. It's a global brand that is on just about every single street corner, and they're still advertising. They're spending$1.2 million every day to advertise to people who already know that they exist. Why would they do that? Because they know that on average, a person needs anywhere between five, seven, and eight touch points before they buy from you. Even though you know what McDonald's is, you're gonna see them on a billboard. That's one touch point you're gonna drive by McDonald's. That's a second touch point. You're gonna hear their ad on the radio. That's a third touch point. Probably gonna pop up on your social P. That's another touch point. Maybe they're doing some sort of marketing stunt and you see about it on the news, and that's another touch point. Before you know it, you're driving by another McDonald's and thinking, okay, it's later than I thought that it was soccer or softball ran over. I gotta do something for dinner. I definitely don't want to go home and cook. We're just gonna stop here tonight. Why did you choose that McDonald's? Because they were top of mind, because they were everywhere all the time. So since the people running McDonald's, advertising campaigns probably have pretty fancy degrees in advertising. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel. I'm going to learn what can I take from how McDonald's advertises and apply that to my own photography. So, be more active on social post images multiple times a day because of the social feed algorithm. Not everybody is gonna see everything that you post. So if you think that posting five times a day is too much, there's a good chance that only a fraction of the people see one or two of those posts. So again, just be more active post 10 times a day, you're not gonna, make anybody mad because the algorithm only some people will see the image. And then advertise in more places than just posting an image. Pay some money to advertise yourself again. McDonald's pays$1.2 million a day to advertise itself to people who already know what it is If you think that you can advertise your business without having to spend any money, you're wishing. But also like be in your community, sponsor a local event, and then be there. Take photos of your name on a banner. Take a photo of you being there, share that on social. Ask your previous clients to leave you a review, and then now you can share that on social. Talk about how great of an experience you had with them. Talk about why you love your clients so much. Just share more things, be more places. Start an email list so that you can continually be in front of these people. That's just another place where people are gonna see you and see you being active than just social media. I. So once that's all set up and rolling, if you're still not getting enough inquiries, one thing that I would do as a wedding photographer is that I would shoot engagement sessions for free. I would market it as, you know, I was testing out a new technique and I, I needed some volunteers around Indy. I would give it some stipulations. Obviously, you needed to be engaged. I would ask them some questions about their relationship to give me an idea of how involved they were in the process. And then whoever I picked, I would give them a great session. I'd make sure that they knew all the details, that they felt well taken care of at the session, that we got some great photos that they didn't feel super awkward. And then, you know what, nine times outta 10, they would book me to shoot their wedding because they already know that they like the product. So why go through the hassle of trying to find another photographer who you don't know if you're gonna like their product to hire you for their wedding day, which is higher stakes than just an engagement session. If you're something like a family photographer or a portrait photographer, you can, fact, if you're a wedding photographer, you can, or if you're a family photographer, set up a booth at a farmer's market and give away a free family photo. Take one great photo, collect their email, send them that photo, and then you can tell them about your full session and now you have their email to, send out a monthly newsletter. Let them know what you've been up to. Stay top of mind. That's another touch point. If you do head shots or portraits, partner with a business to give away a free session. If you're a family photographer or a wedding photographer, you could partner with a, a local toy shop, or a kid's clothing store, or a a bridal shop. Meet with the owner and tell them that you want to give them a session to give away to one of their clients. All you they gotta do is set up a box, at the checkout register, where all they gotta do is fill out their name and their email address, and then that's it. Put it in this little box, and then they could win. It looks great for the business owner because now they have something that they're giving away to one of their clients, and it looks good for you because you're the hero. You're giving away something of value. And on top of that, you're gonna get a box full of, 20, 30 names and email addresses of people with children, people getting married, and now you're gonna have their email address. So again, add that to an email list and now you can send out monthly email newsletters. Stay top of mind. You don't just have to pick one person. You can pick two or three people from this list of names. But again, give away a great session. And maybe it's just the session that it's included. It's not prints, it's not products. Maybe they get just one digital file as a thank you for their time. It's a high quality digital file that they can use to print or do whatever they want, but now you can upsell them to buy the entire session. Point is like growing a business is a lot of work. Getting clients is a lot of work. Booking new clients is way harder than booking previous clients. So if you're a family photographer, reach out to all of your past clients and say, Hey, it's time to update your family photos. I think you'll be surprised at how many people take you up on that. If you shoot portraits or headshots, hey, it's time to update those. If you shoot weddings, Hey, how about you get an anniversary session? Or, Hey, is your family growing? Do you need a maternity session? Again, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of hard work. The question is, how much do you want it? I get it. Things can get busy. We have families, we have full-time jobs, we have responsibilities that we can only get to on the weekend. Like how do we include building a business in there? When it already seems like we don't have enough time as it is, you're gonna have to make sacrifices. And if you want it bad enough, you gotta get out there. You gotta talk to people and you gotta stay consistent. It probably took me three to four years of, I mean, hard work until I got to the point to where I felt like. Okay, I kind of have this figured out now. I know that next year I'll have X amount of weddings, so how much more work do I want to put in to book more weddings? If it were easy, everybody would do it. What's that quote? Everybody wants to be the noun, but nobody wants to do the verb. Everybody wants to be a professional photographer, but nobody wants to get in front of people to ask them to book a session, you know, whatever it is. And I don't, I, I don't know how much work you are putting into this. Maybe you are grinding every single day. And if that's the case, I would say stick with it because it takes time. Maybe audit what it is that you're doing to figure out what am I wasting my time on what's not important here? How can I save time? But you can do this if you want it and you put in the time you can do this. I know you can. I know you can. Because I did. It was not an easy route for me. I moved to a whole part of the country. I knew nobody, I. I had to start from scratch, from zero. I couldn't rely on friends'cause I didn't have any out here. I couldn't rely on family. I mean, I had my wife of course, but like, I couldn't ask my cousins or my siblings like, Hey, ask your friends, like let's grow this thing. There was none of that. So if I can do it, I know that you can do it too. Try one of those things that I mentioned earlier and just make progress every single day, and that's it. I hope that you enjoyed this q and a episode. Again, remember, if you have a burning photography question that you want answered here on the show, just head to beginner photo pod.com/qa to submit your question. Until next time. Remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow. Talk soon.