The Beginner Photography Podcast

How to Practice Photography and Community Accelerated Growth with John Kenny

• Raymond Hatfield

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#561 John Kenny is a dedicated photographer based in rural England who shares his journey from picking up a camera for a family trip to building a portrait and headshot business. The conversation highlights John’s transition from landscape to portrait and headshot photography, underlining the importance of hands-on learning, continual practice, and client communication. 

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. Getting Started and Early Learning - John’s experiences underscore the importance of learning manual settings, understanding light, and learning from mistakes rather than relying solely on equipment.
  2. Building a Photography Business - The pivot from landscapes to portraits taught John that technical skill must be paired with people skills, client feedback, and creative planning for portrait success.
  3. Community and Growth - Engaging with photography communities, drawing inspiration from other creatives, and pursuing personal projects help accelerate development and confidence.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Manual Mode: Complete control over camera settings for creative results.
  • Previsualization: Planning an image before capturing it, crucial for impactful photos.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. How did your photography motivations change with experience?
  2. What role has community played in your learning?
  3. Which personal project would challenge you most?

RESOURCES:
Visit John Kenny's Website - https://www.johnkennyphotography.com/
Follow John Kenny on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/johnkenny_photography/
The Great British Photography Challenge (BBC) - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-great-british-photography-challenge/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

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46 Creative Photo Ideas to Get You Out of a Rut
at https://creativeimageideas.com/

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

John Kenny:

Everyone can learn the technical skills or something, but being able to speak to someone, put people at ease, direct people, that seems to be what separates good photographers from great photographers or great photographers from good photographers, I suppose. It's like that extra vision or bit of skill that you can't really teach. It's something that you either develop or you don't, I would think.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we are chatting with community member John Kenny about slowing down and finding your niche in photography. But first, the Beginner of Photography podcast is brought to you by Clouds Spot. With Clouds Spot, you can simplify your business with Studio Management. In Cloud Spot Studio, you can organize clients, send professional contracts, automate invoice payments, and more so keeping track of everything just got a whole lot easier. Grab your free Forever account today over@deliverphotos.com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. Today's guest, John Kenny, is a fellow member of the Beginner Photography podcast community, and he is a huge asset to the group. One of the things that I think you hear a lot from photographers is that you gotta find your niche, you gotta find something and then go deeper into it. But when you're just getting started in photography, you really wanna shoot everything. And honestly, you should. This grows your experience and also may open up your mind to different types of photography that you didn't even, have any idea that you wanted to explore. Today's the guest, John, shares a lot about finding your way when you're still out there trying to shoot it all. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview. My first question for you here, John, is tell me who you are, where you're from and what it is that you do.

John Kenny:

I'm John Kenny. I'm a photographer based over in England. actually. Pretty rural up in the North Yorkshire, which is upon the East coast of England, near the town of Whitby, which is famous for vampires pretty much.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, really?

John Kenny:

Uh, it was the setting of the Bram Stoker book where Dracula comes over to England. I think the ship crashes at Whitby. I think it's, quite a, photogenic spot, which means that I'm always missing. when you see pictures of people photographing street photography or nice neon lights, that's what I want to photograph, whereas probably everyone else wants to photograph nice historic buildings.

Raymond Hatfield:

No kidding. Yeah, whenever it comes to like visiting new places, that's what I see everybody else doing is, photographing the big buildings and like, look, here we are. I think back one time I went to, New York and everybody got everywhere where I would look people would be taking pictures of like the Empire State Building and the Statue of Liberty and like all those just like normal touristy things. And here I am, just like, looking around. Look at the light on that window right there. Like, let me take a picture of that. My wife, she didn't get it. She's like, what are you taking pictures of? So I'm totally, I'm right there with you. So tell me how you got into photography in the place. Like, where did it all begin for you?

John Kenny:

I bought a, forgive me if I pronounce this wrong. Cause everyone seems to say it differently. A Nikon D3200 back in 2016. I hadn't had an interest in photography really before that. There's no like family history or any, interested at a young age in, film photography or dark rooms. We've always kept family photo albums, but it's the sort of, it's, and then you have a look at them every so often, which is great. And I think that's probably the most important possession we have as a family, really, uh, history of family photo albums. but I was, really keen to try and, take some good pictures or, back standard pictures for, uh, once in a lifetime sort of holiday to Thailand that I was going on, with my girlfriend and me, my, younger brother and his fiance over there. He was on holiday from Korea time. so it was, seemed like a good time to actually, uh, invest in it and, try and learn how to take better pictures really. But I didn't, the reason I chose the Nikon D3200 was the, Sort of like tutorial mode it has built in to sort of, explain the different modes and like how, how a different thing works. So it seemed like a good starter camera. And yeah, uh, just took it on holiday, took lots of terrible photos. Uh, if I, if I'd known how to shoot in a manual, I think I probably would have got some best ones, but with a lot of, uh, It's probably something you don't realize until you start taking photographs, that direct sunlight isn't a good thing or like no shade, just bright, bright sunshine everywhere. Looking back, I still got some good pictures I would have with, there was definitely plenty of room for improvement. Um, uh, yes, that's how started. Um, after, that of, uh, that was 2016. I didn't really do a lot with it in 2017, and then 2018 sort of took it back up again as a, just an excuse to be outside, really, to get into, the local landscape when I wasn't at work, and just to be outside. That was it, really. That was what, that was what got me started. It was the idea of being out and able to take landscape pictures in all weather rather than people.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

John Kenny:

since then, it's sort of evolved, more into trying to get pictures of people, with the, obviously the lockdown last year over here in the uk. Business was shut for a long time, so I had a lot more time to invest into learning, which is when I found the podcast. So I think it was like probably March time last year, I think that I started listening to it. And then obviously join the Facebook group not long afterwards, which has been one of the best sources of information I've got to say, that I found out that probably this, the H's videos on YouTube, I think.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love to hear that. That makes me happy. I'd love to hear, that intro, because I think that it's not. Uncommon for a lot of photographers to get into photography kind of in a very similar way There's some sort of life event whether it be a child or a big trip coming up that you just want to be able to take better photos. I know that you said, you wanted better image quality from, taking this, trip, but, like, why?

John Kenny:

I think it was, probably the, camera itself. Camera or the, the phone that I was using at the time probably wasn't that good as far as camera goes. And also I liked the idea of having. More buttons to play with, I think more, more technology, more toys. So, it was kind of appealing at that time. hadn't really seen anyone using DSLR or mirrorless or been to any photography, photography clubs or anything like that. And I didn't know anyone that one, but, uh, I've seen tourists obviously, uh, moving around the local town and other places, with Big cameras. We have, um, well, before COVID, there used to be, and there probably will be again, what's called a goth weekend, because of the, the history and the legends associated with the town. There's like, a couple of weekends a year where basically, the place is just full of people in fancy dress. Uh, steampunks, goths, that sort of thing. and I've seen, photographers walking around getting loads of great portraits, seeing pictures on Facebook and that sort of thing. So, to me, it seemed to get better, better pictures, better quality pictures, I needed a better camera. Or at least, it turns out, better control over the camera that I had.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, yeah, of course. So, you got the camera, you went to Thailand, you said there's a lot of so so photos, you got some good photos. Looking back was the only difficulty for you just the lighting itself or was there anything else from a technical perspective? I think

John Kenny:

I think I was pretty much shooting in auto all the time. So the camera was doing a good job of trying its best and composition obviously could always be stronger, but it's not, I've never even looked at composition. I've never studied art or anything like that prior to getting the camera. It's my, I thought probably as everyone does, you buy the camera and then you'll get great pictures

Raymond Hatfield:

right away. Yeah. Right out of the box. Yeah.

John Kenny:

without any F for whatsoever.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I know. I wish that that was the case. I truly do. That would make my job so much easier. so obviously at that point, I think you said that you put the camera down for an entire year and that you didn't pick it up again until 2018. Yeah. At that point, did you decide like, you know what, I'm gonna take this seriously, or, once again, you're just getting outside, shooting in auto,

John Kenny:

I think wasn't like 2016. Then I came back from the holiday. I think in my head, I had associated having a camera with only taking out on special occasions, not using it all the time. So I did, I did take pictures in 2017, but it was mainly, family events. And, there's some terrible white balance mistakes, I think.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, always. Yeah, of course.

John Kenny:

I've still kept all the pictures, obviously. this was, I wasn't using Lightroom. So everything's a bit chaotic as far as finding anything goes. before then, 2018, I went on holiday, with a friend, so I took the camera along there and sort of, tried a bit more seriously to be using the camera. So a bit more challenging in different lighting situations, trying to use it in manual, that sort of thing, but still, it was more, more a case of using trial and error rather than any sort of attempt to learn how to use it properly. then sort of like coming on to, to 2019, I had a holiday in Germany, but, it was like short two weeks sort of thing going around a few different cities in the Black Forest, just me and a friend. And it was the first time sort of I'd had, had the opportunity to take the camera out without any problems. and use it basically all day. So from before sunrise to last to summarize, so it was just like two weeks of being able to use the camera, as much as I wanted, when I wanted. So it was like a real opportunity to review, the images as it went along and sort of know what I needed to do to improve and then have the opportunity to work on it again the next day. From then on, I tried to, even when I came back, I was using it more often, trying to learn how to do new things, that sort of thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Was it that trip that got you, I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is that, you know, you got the camera, you took a few photos, so so, kind of took a year off, got back into it. At what point did it become like really serious for you? Does that question make sense?

John Kenny:

Yeah, yeah, I haven't got a, I don't have a family or anything. So sometimes I have a bit of spare time on hand and I've always felt that I need, to be doing something productive, with spare time. The camera being there meant I had that opportunity. So, was like being able to learn, effectively to create something or to see something and then record it. This is where it becomes difficult to articulate these things really. Right. Of

Raymond Hatfield:

course.

John Kenny:

still hadn't watched or studied any other photographers or anything like that. I don't think I even had an Instagram account at that time. I was a bit, a bit slow with social media. I forgot where I was going with that.

Raymond Hatfield:

You know, really it's, I feel like a lot of times we either, the kind of, what's the word here that I'm looking for? The, generalization is that you grow up being interested in photography and you just think that you're just going to follow that for your whole life. Or. Again, something happens and you take a photo that you realize, Wait, there's something here. Like, I can keep going with this. Because today, you're making a go at turning this into a business, right?

John Kenny:

Mm hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So, was there a single photo that you had ever taken that you looked at and first thought to yourself, Wow, this means something to me. I can really make a go at this.

John Kenny:

It's strange that really because I first had the thought that, one of the pictures I sent you for the, request, like the five, six images that, are important to me. One of those is one of the first prints that I sold. not for any great deal of money, but it's the first time I thought, well, if someone wants to pay to have one of my photographs, in their home, then, there must be some quality or something in the work. So, set up website with the intention of selling landscape photos. And then quickly realized that people are more interested in learning about landscape photography than, buying landscape photography. Yeah, unless you're really, really good at it, I suppose. Or you're, able to really, I wouldn't say visit strange locations, but you can, you're actually talented enough to be able to capture a feeling or a mood in a place.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes.

John Kenny:

then it's probably a very difficult thing to make a living on just selling prints or to build that into any kind of business, I think. And was that the

Raymond Hatfield:

first photo that you sold? Was that a landscape photo?

John Kenny:

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was on my, it was either the D3200 still or D7200. Um, uh, shot a long, long exposure with, a sea scene. And then some light trails leading through it. So it was the first time that I sort of envisioned a scene and then actually been able to go out and execute it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. And

John Kenny:

have it, actually come out how I pictured it, I think. So that's why it was like a, an important image to me because it was a sort of progression.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

John Kenny:

but then, after realizing that the landscape thing wasn't really going to be a viable option, and having a lot of time, With business lockdowns and, what have you last year? It was more about trying to push myself to try and learn new skills. So I thought the, using off camera flash would be a good way to go. and then to really try and work on, portraits, And then decided to try and build a business starting this year, based around headshots and portrait photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

Headshots and portraits. I wanna, pause for a moment and go back to talking about, the pre visualization, right? Getting the photo that you saw in your head and finally being able to capture it. What do you think was holding you back before that photo itself?

John Kenny:

I think it was probably, a case of I would go out somewhere without a plan really, take whatever gear I had, all of the gear, because I think that's probably what everyone does when you start to go out, you take, you don't, you don't know what you're going to use. So you might only have like three lenses or something, but you take them

Raymond Hatfield:

all, yeah, just in case.

John Kenny:

Um, I didn't have a load of kit, but it was certainly heavy enough. I knew that, uh, the angle I wanted, the position that I need, I need to be in a time of day that I needed to be there. and then it was just a case of, work more, more luck than anything, really working out the, shutter time to keep getting the light trails, how I wanted them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah.

John Kenny:

so that, that was like obviously a really big motivating factor when that was, uh, when I was able to pull that off. and then I started planning, planning a little bit more when I was going out. So I would know

Raymond Hatfield:

going forward.

John Kenny:

Yeah. I would know what, what, where I would need to be or what the location would work, that sort of thing. Sort of, I suppose, seeing things more as a photographer rather than, just like, seeing something nice and taking a picture without thinking about it. I just take, taking a quick snap. So there was a little bit more planning and intent, I think, that's when things started to change, really.

Raymond Hatfield:

So now that you're doing headshots, how are you using pre visualization to help you get the best photos that you can with, with that?

John Kenny:

it's, it's more, it's more of a challenge and it's not really. So with the corporate headshot sort of thing, it's more, I've practiced the lighting on myself. So the, the actual, I can visualize how the light is going to be or what, like what lighting I'm going to need or how it's going to be set up. It's a fairly simple, uh, setup. So now the challenge is actually, speaking to people, in a short space of time, maybe 10, 15 minutes to try and get some acceptable images that they would like so it was a a bit of a rocky start to be honest, but

Raymond Hatfield:

well, tell me about that What does that mean? How's that?

John Kenny:

well, the first job I had, I had to be, I put the, these offices up, up in Northumberland, which is a bit further north. and there was a yellow warning of snow and ice that day. So I had to, obviously, I thought, there's nowhere I can cancel the first job. Uh, just'cause there's a warning, I'm gonna have to make it even, uh, even though, so it wasn't too bad. There was a fair bit of snow, but fortunately, no problems getting there. So I thought I had everything that I needed. I didn't have a white backdrop. All I had was a collapsible black background that I bought off

Raymond Hatfield:

Facebook.

John Kenny:

Cause someone else had decided that photography wasn't for them, I assume. and I was a little bit naive and I didn't realize that they would obviously not want a black background for a headshots. they wanted white. That wasn't great to start with. Fortunately they had white walls, so I could work with that. So I spent nearly all day there taking paragraphs, set up a private gallery on my website for them to have a look at, the pictures to me were all fine, like the exposure and everything was right, but customer, said they didn't feel that it represented them, they felt that they all looked a little bit too wooden, which was, little bit difficult because I, to me, like I thought obviously the technical thing, the technical aspect, if you get that wrong, that's your own fault.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure.

John Kenny:

There's no one else you can blame for that. But, I thought, well, it's quite different. It's quite a difficult thing to say to someone, does this look like you, or are you happy with that? Or you think you take the picture of someone. get the lighting right. That's the picture of them. that was really,

Raymond Hatfield:

uh, difficult, I assume to get that sort of feedback.

John Kenny:

Yeah. Yeah. fortunately I, said to them, I'll come and do the photographs again. and they were happy with that. I came out again, invested in white background this time. when it did them again, and I think it sort of helped having been there before. So it was a lot easier to speak to people and build rapport. And then, I don't have a, shoot tethered. So it was more a case of like having a look at the back of the screen. Then, saying to them, you know, how do you think this works? Do you think we should try looking this way? A tilt that way, that sort of thing. So, trying to be more collaborative and then spending more time speaking to people rather than. because I was new and it was the first job, worry more about the technical aspect of the lights and all that side of things.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. So what have you learned now going forward? I guess, like, I mean, I know that you said it's all about, the communication and trying to be more collaborative, but is it that simple? Or is there anything specifically that you're doing or asking or the way that you're introducing yourself or a shot list or something that you're going forward to ensure that you can get? What it is that you need.

John Kenny:

Yeah, I think from, uh, actually got advice from a few people in the group. So, got some great tips on, making sure that things, there's an understanding before, actually visiting the place. So we know what sort of pictures the customers after. what sort of aesthetic they're looking for. and then just spending a bit more time, trying to put people at ease. Because nobody likes having the camera pointed at them, really. Yeah. I think that's where you get like 90 percent of the time. I don't like having my picture taken or I don't look good in photos. So it's remembering that nobody's very, he's in front of the camera. So I did, I spent a fair bit of time taking self portraits, like just to try and practice it and get a feeling of what it's like to be in front of a camera, which is not quite the same, but, the best I could do at the time. And then looking at other portrait photographers, work, and videos and whatever was available on YouTube, really. And obviously the, information from podcasts, what have you. so yeah, just managed to pick up, enough information to, to go back and do a good job the second time. I've done three so far, three jobs. so I've still got plenty to learn. So there's probably something really, really important that I'm missing, uh, as far as it goes, but it's, you'll learn

Raymond Hatfield:

that after your next session, I

John Kenny:

think the thing at the moment really is just to keep, keep trying to get, people in front of the camera, really, as many people as possible with as many different, Faces as possible just to get practice learning how to speak to different people and, how different light works, different qualities of light, that sort of thing that every time with every, with it, with each step that you go through with photography, you realize how much more there is that you need to learn before you can move on to the next, next part. So it's like one long video game,

Raymond Hatfield:

one long video game. I've never heard it described like that. That's good. You're absolutely right.

John Kenny:

You've got to keep building your supplies and your kit. Not literally, but like your knowledge. You're, uh, not, definitely not the kit. The kit doesn't matter as much. It's just the, the knowledge, that you need. As long as you have, you keep building your knowledge as you're going along, you should be able to progress really. there's a, I don't know if you get, BBC programs straight away over there or if there's a,

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm not sure we cut the cord a long time ago, so I don't watch much TV, so please tell me, what you were going to say.

John Kenny:

There's a, um, a four part TV series called the great British photography challenge with a photographer named Rankin. Oh yeah. where they've got six photographers from different genres, not complete amateurs that are obviously people who know how to use a camera, and they're doing different challenges as they go along. So it's, been quite useful, learning to watching how different people deal with different. situations like being challenged to get a good photograph with a smartphone, that sort of thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. is there something that you learned from the show that you Are either going to, or are now implementing in the way that you conduct a session?

John Kenny:

the, uh, communication really, I think that's the key bit because everyone can learn the technical skills or something, but being able to speak to someone. put people at ease, direct people, that, that seems to be what separates, good photographers from great photographers or great photographers from good photographers, I suppose. it's like that, extra vision or bit of skill that you can't really teach. It's something, that you either develop or you don't, I would think. other photographers that, I've seen do similar things that take great photographs. So obviously there is. Uh, Platon, who I'd never heard of until that Netflix show that someone mentioned.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Is it the, the design or the art of?

John Kenny:

Yeah. Something like that. The series. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah.

John Kenny:

That was really insightful.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. If you go on, I believe, no, it's actually Rankin's Instagram page. He did a whole like hour and a half long interview with him and Platon. And I thought, I watched it. Like I've never stared at my phone, like, as long as I did to watch that entire interview, but it was to watch. I had actually reached out to Rankin to get, to see if he would be interested in coming on the podcast. But now that you mentioned that, I remember he said no, because he was getting ready to do that show. So is it over now? Should I reach back out to him and see if I can get him on? Yeah. Yeah. It's

John Kenny:

finished. four parts. So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's finished. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

And he's like photographed the queen. He's like royalty over there.

John Kenny:

Yeah, when I got into photography, I'd never, I never looked at other photographers work or anything. didn't really know anyone as such that took good photographs, didn't look at anyone's work. which probably sounds a bit weird. It wasn't, it wasn't a deliberate, artistic choice not to look at social media. It was just, I wasn't aware of it. So, The internet up here was terrible. So it wasn't something that would be, we'd be widely using. I think we only got more than 1. 9 megabytes of download speed, probably about three years ago.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh my gosh. Back to 2006.

John Kenny:

Everything before that, it just wouldn't, nothing would happen. You'd be wasting your time really. Um, but since then, so seeing, obviously follow different photographers and different pages on, on Instagram, but, a lot of the people whose work, Maybe the most famous don't really, there's not really any presence on Instagram. It's like, you need to know who you're looking for before you can go and find it sort of thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right. Yeah, that's very true.

John Kenny:

Yeah. So, watching that show with how he works and, not how I would expect, I suppose you'd have the idea that somebody works in that industry at that level would be, maybe not as shouty as Gordon Ramsay, but, uh, that, that sort of thing. So seeing like how quiet Platon was in that Netflix documentary, more interested in the, the person like asking questions, more empathy, that side of things. it's a similar thing. There's another photographer who I was hoping to do a workshop with last year that got, obviously cancelled called Rory Lewis. I don't know if you've heard of him as well. He's

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm not familiar.

John Kenny:

He's a celebrity and royal portrait photographer. He's done a lot of work with the, photographing the British and Italian armies. and celebrities. he does actors headshots as well as portraits. And, I watched an interview with him, by the British Journal of Photography. and it was really interesting like to see where, where he gets his influences from, like, Renaissance art, that sort of thing, rather than other photography. So it was just like a different, a different piece of the toolkit, really, somewhere else that I had never thought to look for inspiration. I had to see how, obviously, I'd heard of Rembrandt lighting, but, never actually connected the idea that it was from Rembrandt's paintings. That's, that's how, little my knowledge was. So it was really interesting to then look in that direction to see what you can take from there. Like, what is it that you like about that sort of thing? Can you replicate that sort of light or that sort of, composition, I suppose?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

John Kenny:

In your own work. And I know from style or individual styles, a big thing that everyone seems to worry about. And. I think, like, when, when you're getting all these different influences, different building blocks, that's pulling things from different areas. That's how you sort of, try and build your own style, I suppose.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Do you think Does that make sense? It does. But I'm interested to hear your perspective on style. I guess, first question, do you think that you have a style? No. Okay. Perfect. So then, do you think that style is Do you create your style or do you think style just comes up naturally?

John Kenny:

I think, style should come from yourself. I think there's a big danger that's been spoken about by a lot of photographers. I think Dan Milner, mentions it like the, the influence of, likes and Instagram say. if you get into it too early and start, start worrying about likes, you sort of, and you post, images that you get likes, you're posting for other people then, you're making work for other people, you're not really, it's homogenizing everything.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

John Kenny:

rather than creating something different, so in that respect, I think style could come from, an external source, but I don't think then it's not going to be as strong because it's not coming from yourself then really. Oh. It's, I think you, you might have it for a bit, but then I think eventually, it might be something that you come to look back on and think, well, this wasn't for me or. It could wear out if trends change on Instagram and what have you. Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

it's funny. I was thinking back to my first wedding that I ever shot solo, not too long ago. And I remember meeting with the couple and I remember thinking, like, I have enough of an understanding of Lightroom on how to make things look different. So I asked the couple, I was like, what are your favorite colors? What are the colors of the wedding? And they told me it was like teal and purple or something like that. And I was like, Do you want me to edit your photos in a way that would reflect, your wedding colors? And they were like, absolutely, that'd be great. That would be absolutely wonderful. And I remember thinking, sweet, I got this. And I went to go edit all of their wedding photos. And at the time I'm thinking to myself, this is awesome. I think this might be my thing. I'll be able to do custom edits on every single wedding, that I do and tailor each wedding edits to the individual couple. And. Now I look back at those photos and they just look like dead zombies, like the skin is green and the shadows are purple and it just doesn't look very good. So like, I totally understand, where you're coming from there, where it's like, if you try to manufacture a style, it just comes off as inauthentic and it's not going to work. It's not going to be your own no matter how hard you tried. And I think that like, If you want zombie looking photos, I think that I did a pretty good job, but that doesn't mean that overall that the photos are good. So I get that. You made me think about that. I like that. Where do you get your inspiration for photos?

John Kenny:

at the moment it's, I'm looking more, portrait photographers rather than, I did get like a small book on Caravaggio's artwork.

Raymond Hatfield:

But

John Kenny:

it's more words than pictures. So I'm like quickly looking through it to find the pictures, uh, to see how, people are arranged, like the sort of expressions. and that that's directly stolen from, Rory Lewis's, did a series of books with actors, not books, pictures with actors, where the inspiration was taken from, famous pieces of art and then tried to recreate it with, actors sort of thing. That's awesome. Um, and then, recently black and white photography as well. It's become, a real interest. there's a photographer who, again, that I should if I'd had any sort of education or looked into the industry before. Someone that I should have known about called, I think he's, Dr. Andy Goz.

Raymond Hatfield:

another one I'm not familiar with.

John Kenny:

I think he was, he's a celebrity, photographer again, thing is that he doesn't retouch portraits, so it's all quite real. There's no like, skin softening or, that side of things. It's all very textured and, emotional, I suppose. He's got some outstanding pictures of some, great celebrities like Harrison Ford, pulling funny faces, that sort of thing. just stuff that you would never expect to see. And you would think, well, if you were to ask someone to do that, there's going to be a real level of, uh, real level of trust sort of thing, before someone would do that on camera. so it's really exploring more on that side of things. But, For me, for my development, I think it's one of the things I've still yet to do is ask a stranger for a portrait outside. Yeah. So it's just pushing myself to do things which are, uncomfortable, I suppose, or different, and then to try and take lessons from there, either on how, to interact with people or, how to actually get the shot that, a shot that looks good. So let

Raymond Hatfield:

me ask you, because I remember you posted. that you took a little holiday. You wanted to go ask some people, like strangers, for their portraits. Didn't end up doing it. But, well, I guess, first of all, did you get a chance to, I feel like I remember seeing that you, did finally find somebody to photograph. Is that right? You're still working on that?

John Kenny:

No, I'm still working on that. Still working on that. I've convinced myself when I get, uh, spare time, well, one of the downsides of trying to turn photography into a business at the same time as having a business is the amount of time to actually go out and take photographs has gone down. to like 5 percent of the time that I used to have to do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes.

John Kenny:

at the moment, business wise, my focus is all on learning about really interesting stuff about marketing and LinkedIn strategies, that sort of thing, rather than actually making good photographs. because the way I look at it, if it's stuff that's. not as fun to do, then it's probably more urgent to do it. Things like tax and book work, I figure it's the same, it's the same with eating vegetables. If they tasted nice, they wouldn't be good for you. So if it's not fun, I should probably be doing more of it. That's funny. Taxes

Raymond Hatfield:

are the vegetables of business. I love that. I'm gonna get that on a t shirt. I'm gonna give you credit for that. I like that a lot. So I guess, back to my question there, when you get the opportunity to get in front of somebody and say, Hey, I'm a photographer. I'd love to just take your portrait real quick right here. Is that something that like you plan out ahead of time? Like, do you have an idea for what you want the photo to be? Or for right now? Is it just simply here somebody, let me just get the photo off real quick. and then I'm done with this.

John Kenny:

something I've picked up from, another photographer is, the importance of personal projects. obviously photography being a business is people won't pay to do something that they don't see that you can already do. So It probably goes back to that working for free thing like, nobody should work for free, but obviously the only way that you're going to build, an image portfolio is some sort of trade off between your time and, having someone stand there for you. So, sort of tying into that really. So I had the idea looking for, I suppose, story, something that had a bit more of a story element to it rather than just something in isolation. So I had the idea for, when I saw, I think up on Instagram, like pages that you might follow or, One of them was for an American football team. You guys probably call it football, but, uh, nearby and it was, fairly nearby and it was, a lady's American football team. So it was a bit more of a novelty. So I got in touch with them through Instagram, and explained. who I was and would they be interested in any, pictures for marketing and for trying to get, new members and to keep their posts on social media. So they were quite keen on the idea and I managed to go and photograph them the other week, which was again, something that I've not done for photographing sports. And I had the idea in my head that I would be able to turn up, take some pictures, then get some portraits with, portable studio lighting. Something that looked very dramatic and, and impressive, that sort of, high speed sync look maybe, because it's, it's more of a novelty over here, obviously to see the, it has a sort of, I suppose, like a Hollywood glamour, the, Uniform, the helmets, that sort of thing. It's been a lot on a lot of TV shows, that sort of thing. So I had the, the idea to do that in my head, but then obviously going back to empathy and speaking to people, I realized that when they got there, this is, not going to happen overnight. You can't really, you can't really ask, uh, offer to do something for someone then immediately ask them to do something for you. I think that came from listening to Vincent. Vince, yeah, his part, his, interview with you and then listen to his total life freedom podcast about, way that you build things by doing things for other people without looking to see what you can get from it, really. Right. So, it'll probably, that'll probably take a few, a little while to come off. So, it's all about doing stuff for other people then, It actually increases the number of people that know you, so it has an indirect benefit anyway, even if it's not, something that you're going out there for, so that was like one personal project. And then, this one might be a trickier one to do. I want to start taking photographs of, regulars in pubs.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, really? But do you have to be a regular in a pub, like, to be able to recognize who the regulars are?

John Kenny:

Well, customers, then let's say, there's not as many regulars as they used to be, but we have a pub. So I have, regular customers that come in, but I haven't quite figured out the dynamic of how you would actually ask them to do that, how you would actually logistically go about it. Cause you can't be tracking, studio lighting around the pub. there's a few things to figure out on that. But I think it's just like the, the idea of when you're trying to learn and to build things, it's no good waiting for things to happen. You have to sort of, push things along in your own way.

Raymond Hatfield:

Uh,

John Kenny:

so come up with ideas, look for inspiration, look for ideas from other sources. So Jim's, point about other Facebook groups, don't post in photography Facebook groups, post in. Family Facebook photo groups where people might actually be interested in your services or right. Yeah. What for whatever it is you're doing. Yeah, just working on that. Then I'm still intent on finding someone to a complete stranger to get a photograph of. It's just that every time I've been out recently, I've convinced myself that there's no one that looks, has the right kind of face. Oh, come on. Do you think that's an excuse? Yeah, I think that

Raymond Hatfield:

sounds like a bit of an excuse. I think that we can, I did the same thing recently, our family went to like it was like a beach town, and I remember walking around, taking photos of this beach town, and I thought to myself, I was like, I'm gonna find somebody and just ask them to take their portrait, like a very similar, thing as you, I believe, and, at the end of the day, I kept telling myself, I found that I was telling myself the exact same things. Now, I photograph like, a fair amount of people, you know, I'm very comfortable with a camera, but there's something It feels very private, to take somebody's photo, and to ask just a random stranger essentially to do this, private, intimate, relationship act with you right there of, hey, like, can I get to know you enough to take a photo of you right here? It can be very scary. So I completely get that. I totally get that. If you could go back to 2016. And talk to 2016 John and say something about photography. What advice would you give him?

John Kenny:

I would say, start shooting in manual

Raymond Hatfield:

right

John Kenny:

away. Yeah, that'll probably get you quicker results, I think. And also to actually do some, uh, do some research and try and learn something first, look at the sort of resources that are around and, get out there and just. Just to keep shooting. Don't think that you've got, you've invested, money in a camera. So, it's too precious to take out and use all the time. You're only going to take out special occasions or something like that. Take out all the time and just keep taking lots of pictures and then just learn from them as you go. find out what you like and just, keep working on it.

Raymond Hatfield:

That was beautiful. That was absolutely beautiful. I don't think we could end this any better than that, John. We are just about at the end of our time here. before I let you go, you know what, actually, I got one more question for you. I know that you've been listening to the podcast for a while. I know that you've been part of the group for a while. I'm always interested to know, like, is it about the Beginner Photography Podcast Facebook community that you enjoy so much more over other Facebook groups or online forums?

John Kenny:

I think it's the people that are in it, I think. Everyone's there for the same purpose and everyone outlook. They understand that, Everyone is there to learn. It doesn't matter what stage you are. there's always someone that knows something that you don't know. it doesn't matter where you are, how long you've been shooting or, what you're shooting with. it's the fact that there's always someone there that can help you out. And people are more than happy to help you out with, really useful advice. I think when I had my first, the first, job to go to this year, I said, well, I was thinking of charging. And I think someone said that that sounded a little bit too low to them for what was involved. So I went back and doubled it. and still got the job. So that's probably the most useful bit of advice I've ever had. That's a

Raymond Hatfield:

direct, help right there. So if anybody is new to the group and they were worried about posting a photo for fear, for the feedback that they would get, what advice would you give them?

John Kenny:

There was, someone that I actually met, photographing in, Whitby last year, I think it was, and, he decided to buy a camera when he retired. So, was still working out how to use it. It's taking some good pictures and getting the hang of it. But, I have seen that he's actually, I think he's joined the group now and started posting pictures. cause I said, I hope that you actually have on Instagram cause his account's private. So he's obviously not ready to, or not wanting to share his pictures and said that, I hope he's still shooting that it's not put him off, wearing his pictures on as good as other people. And I said to him that this will be the group to come to, to, find support and to get good feedback. Not, not just people kicking you when you're down sort of thing. I'm pretty sure that he's joined the group cause I've seen comments and I think he's posted. So, yeah, that's great to see. And I think that that just goes to show that the, environment and the community that's built around it, is a strong one that has the right values, really.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's always so fun to hear. Cause I know how hard it can be when first getting started in photography. I remember, being new to photography and not knowing where to turn whenever I had questions. So I appreciate that you found it helpful enough to tell somebody else. That is so awesome. John, my last question for you before I let you go is, I keep looking at the mailbox every single day for a piece of cheesecake in the mail, and nothing has shown up yet, so I'm hoping that it's gonna be here soon, is that right?

John Kenny:

Definitely. Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

it's good. You can't, you can't

John Kenny:

trust the post service.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh no. Especially if it was that Biscoff cheesecake. Oh my gosh. My mailman. probably ate it and just didn't leave it for me. John, before I let you go, where can people find or learn more about you? And what it is that you shoot?

John Kenny:

The best place to go is probably my website, which is johnkennyphotography. com. and then there's links to social media and then, my other work on that because, uh, one of the things that, tips that came through, I think when I was starting out was that you should have a niche for your photography. So if you're doing, don't have pictures of, people, landscape and cars, for example, all on the same website or cake, for example, because it confuses people. So. I ambitiously set up like three different, Instagram accounts to keep stuff separate, uh, thinking that I was going to keep taking photographs for all of them. So like one of them is sort of not had any posts for a while. So yeah, the website is probably the best place because it's got links to my main, portrait website and then links to my landscape pictures as well. But yeah, if anyone's interested.

Raymond Hatfield:

Today's action item, the one thing that if you implement it into your photography, you're gonna move the needle forward is this point out what you love most in photography? This sounds easy, but trust me, it's not. It takes a little bit of work. I want you to start by taking a piece of paper and writing down everything that you love about how you shoot. Maybe you love being outside in the early morning. Maybe you love meeting with new people. Maybe you love holding a photo in your hands, right? The, the tangible experience of it. Write it all down. Okay? Now open up your Lightroom catalog and start going through all of your images. You're not really looking for anything specific, just go through them pretty quickly. After a few minutes, you're gonna see a photo that you recognize and maybe you compose your subject in a certain way. Maybe it's always at the bottom right of your frame. Or maybe your favorite photos are the one where your subject is looking right at the camera. They're camera aware. Maybe you love the backlight, whatever it is. When you go through these photos in like this large group, this lump sum of photos, you're gonna see these things about your own photography that maybe you didn't notice before. But they become extremely clear when you look at them altogether. So write those things down as well. And then take those handful of things, write them down on the same sheet of paper as all the things that you love most about photography, and then ask yourself, how can you go deeper into those things so that you can bring more joy and honestly more of yourself into your images. That's it for this week. Until next time, remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow.