The Beginner Photography Podcast

School Teacher by Day Aspiring Photographer by Night with Elizabeth DeVoe

• Raymond Hatfield

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#551 Elizabeth DeVoe is a first-grade teacher in Atlanta who recently embarked on her photography journey. The discussion navigates Elizabeth's early experiences and the unexpected spark that ignited her passion for photography. Elizabeth shares her beginnings with a Canon Rebel XS, a journey that transitioned from a poor initial photo attempt to a newfound love for capturing everyday moments. The episode delves into her learning paths, notably through podcasts, and emphasizes the relatable struggles and triumphs of a beginner photographer. 

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. Beginnings of a Photography Journey - Elizabeth describes how a mix of chance and personal necessity led her to pick up the camera again after a year, highlighting how a creative outlet can offer solace and joy amidst life's stresses.
  2. Learning Through Audio - A significant portion of Elizabeth's early education in photography came from listening to podcasts while driving, showcasing how non-visual learning can effectively complement a visual art form like photography.
  3. Transitioning to Client Work - Elizabeth talks about moving from photographing friends to paid sessions, underlining the importance of creating comfort and connection with subjects, which is a fundamental skill she honed through teaching and customer service roles.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Back Button Focusing: A technique in which the focus function is removed from the shutter button and assigned to a button on the back of the camera, allowing for more controlled and repeatable focusing.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. How can finding a personal creative outlet improve mental health and balance in one's life?
  2. In what ways can non-traditional learning methods contribute to skill acquisition in visual arts?

RESOURCES:
Follow Elizabeth DeVoe on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/elizabethdevoephotography/

Download your free copy of
46 Creative Photo Ideas to Get You Out of a Rut
at https://creativeimageideas.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I do send out a questionnaire at first. Just to specify like, okay, what combinations of photos would you like? So I know all of that before, so we don't have to waste our time talking about that. And like, if there's any specific goals for this? So like one of them she's due in December, so she wanted to capture that. One of them's like, we want these for holiday cards. So those are good things to know. So I don't have to like, find that out in those 15 minutes.

Raymond Hatfield (2):

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. And in today's rewind episode, we are chatting with community member Elizabeth Devo about balancing a full-time teaching career with learning photography. It can be rough. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Cloud Spot. Simplify your business with studio management, organize clients, send professional contracts, automated invoices, and more. Keeping track of everything in your photography business just got a whole lot easier. And the best part, you can grab your free forever account today over@deliverphotos.com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. Elizabeth is one of those shining stars in the group, honestly. She always has something warm to say and incredibly excited to soak up as much knowledge as humanly possible in the group. One thing I love about this group is that it has become a place where if you participate consistently over time, you can see your body of work evolve and grow. And that's exactly what I see in Elizabeth's work, as you'll hear, she started in photography pretty much by accident and honed her skills. worked harder at getting better, and now can honestly say that she's an amazing photographer. So in today's episode, you will learn how to embrace your passion by simply experimenting because of work. You know, sometimes you cannot dedicate huge chunks of time to learning, and Elizabeth shares great advice on how to make measurable progress without much time. You'll also learn how to create a creative routine and how to develop a genuine client approach, focusing on comfort over perfection so that you can create images that are genuine and personal. And remember, I found Elizabeth because she participates in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community, and I would love to see you there too. So come join us by heading over to beginner photo pod.com/group. Again, beginner photo pod.com/group. And with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview.

Raymond Hatfield:

I just want to know who you are and what you do. Like what is your day job and what got you started in photography?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Awesome. Well, I am Elizabeth DeVoe. I am a first grade teacher here in Atlanta. I have been doing photography for about three months now since maybe August. A very, very, very short amount of time. I couldn't tell you what had me pick it up this time. I, about a year ago in the middle of the pandemic, bought a very cheap to me, Canon Rebel XS from a friend. I think she gave it to us for like 40 or 50 bucks. We were doing some other work for her. So she just was like, here it is, not using it anymore. Take it. I picked it up. I took a picture of my dog. And my dining room, and it was so bad that I was like, this camera's broken. This camera's done. This is to no put it away for at least a year. Didn't touch it. And I'm not sure if it was just, I needed an escape from. Like the demands of work this year or what it was. I don't know what I was looking for in August, but that was the beginning of the school year. So I can assume it was probably that that had me pick it up and was like, well, let me see if it was me. That was the reason I can't, that photo was not so great. so I picked it back up again, looked at just a few things and really just immediately fell in love with it that time. I don't know what was different from that time versus a year ago, but. The first time I took it around my neighborhood, it was like an immediate, I've never fallen in love with something that quickly. And it's kind of just been an obsession since then.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So, uh,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

no, no,

Raymond Hatfield:

I love all of that. And I think that your story is going to resonate with a lot of people because of that fact that like you bought a camera or you got. And you think, correct me if I'm wrong, but you think that when you get this camera, you're like, oh, amazing photos are coming my way. Like, this is going to be fantastic. And then that first photo that you take, for all intents and purposes here is, was garbage. And you think to yourself, You think to yourself, Oh no, like this is not, what I thought that it was going to be. So then you put it down. And I think that a lot of people get into that position, but then obviously something compelled you to pick up that camera again and keep going. So you said that it was around August. I mean, was it just on the shelf or did you see something on Instagram and you thought, Hey, I kind of want to try that. Like, what was it that kind of sparked that initial. Let me try this again.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

You know, I knew you would ask me that and I've been trying to think of what it was for like weeks now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Legitimately nothing, huh?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I really have. so I have this little nook in my house that's always been kind of my creative space. at the beginning of the pandemic, my partner and I realized we kind of, you know, We loved being together, of course, but we also needed to create our own spaces if we were going to be together all the time. So I had my little creative nook in my house and that's where I, used to, um, hopefully still do it sometimes, paint. I paint, I play piano a little bit. I say that I'm learning piano a little bit. so that's just kind of my little area. So it was sitting in my little creative zone. And, my kind of release after work is walking my dog around the block and walking into the park across the street. So I took it out one day with me just to kind of see what was around and took it. One of the first photographs I remember taking is there's this like half fallen down mailbox across my street. That's just covered in vines and it's really cool looking and I loved the photo I took. Not necessarily that I took it but I loved the subject that I took and it was just so interesting to me that I just kept taking them from there. I really think it was just looking for a release and looking for something new. I kind of am a person that goes from hobby to hobby to hobby. And so this was like well let me try this out. And this one hopefully will stick a lot longer than others.

Raymond Hatfield:

So this is where you're at today. This is great. So I love that you are still so relatively new in this journey because kind of helps me figure out like, what are the things that you're struggling with most? because having been there myself, like, I know the answers. I just need to know like what is that source? So when you went out and took that photo of that half broken mailbox covered in vines, are you shooting an auto? Are you shooting an aperture priority? What's your technical knowledge of photography at this point?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I believe I was shooting an aperture priority at that point. did you have

Raymond Hatfield:

any idea what that meant?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

A little bit. Only because I couldn't tell you who it was, but I had signed up for like a five day, like challenge of kinds that like the first day they told you they'd send you a little article and it was about, aperture. The second day it was about shutter speed. The second, third day was about. X, Y, and Z, all of the different things. And so it had little practice points through there. So I was starting to become familiar with those terms. And so I started an aperture priority of Jubilee, just because that was the one that made most sense to me. Like the aperture part. And I was like, okay, let's start here.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So you left that photo, right? You took it and you thought, this is fantastic. I'm going to, make a serious go at this. what's your learning path? Like, how do you intend to learn photography? What was the first thing that, that you had thought of? Was it, I need to go to a library? Was it, I need to look on YouTube? where did that lead you?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

It honestly was podcasts. Hi. use Spotify a lot and I just searched, you know, photography one day. And, I don't remember if yours was the very first. I know it was at least the first or second that I found though, because obviously I was a beginner. So that was probably what I typed in. And I straight just listened to the first before I started scattering off into the episodes to fit my interests a little more. I listened to the first 20 or 30, like straight through. And that was honestly where I learned a lot. I think I told you this on a message, but through those first, I don't remember if it was around episode 10 or so, the triangle series. On

Raymond Hatfield:

manual

Elizabeth DeVoe:

within a week or two of picking up the camera.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's amazing. I love to hear that. That is so cool. So I want to ask why it was

Elizabeth DeVoe:

great, but I was on it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's a start, right? That's a start where we're all terrible drivers that, you know, 15 or whatever, but we get better in time, hopefully. Um, like what made you think, photography is such a visual medium. What made you think, I want to try to learn photography through audio. Like, I don't want to see examples. I want to learn photography through, through podcasts.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I honestly, that was probably, A big part of my grad school brain coming back, like in grad school, I was so busy all the time that I felt like the only time that I had me time was when I was driving. And so I basically only listen to it when I'm driving. On my drive to work and on my drive back. So that was a big part of it.

Raymond Hatfield:

This is just like a personal curiosity here. Are you like trying to write down things or memorize things? If something comes up so that you can practice later, or how do you retain that information?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

A lot of rewind, a lot of replay, as well as following the people that you're interviewing. Like, especially if it's, people that are really sticking with me, I immediately go and follow them and kind of make a mental note to go look at, look at that later and remind myself of why.

Raymond Hatfield:

Anybody who's, who stands out in particular,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

do you see me looking at my notes over here?

Raymond Hatfield:

You're prepared. I love it. Yes.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

The first one that I remember was, I think his name was Andrew Billington.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. Yeah.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

And it was specifically not so much the wedding side of it, but the documentary side of it. And that has basically been my approach since listening to that, as well as listening to like you, you talk so much about, capturing the moments versus anything else. And so that's kind of been my approach since then. Why do you think that

Raymond Hatfield:

stood out to you so much?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

That's a good question. It's just, for me, like, I hate being in front of the camera. And I hate posing. And I don't want to pose other people. And not because, I do, because I do think, like, posing is for certain occasions. sometimes, like, I do boudoir stuff as well. And, like, that can definitely be a time where posing is more needed or wanted. but on the whole, it's just, I love just the way Andrew like captures the day. I think he says like your day exactly as it was or something along those lines. Don't quote me on that. But I just, I like capturing the moments just as they were versus, hey, look over here, say cheese. I want you to be exactly who you are and let me just like stop that moment in time.

Raymond Hatfield:

So from the beginning, right? We got this photo of a half broken mailbox covered in vines. And then you hear this.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Somebody's mailbox.

Raymond Hatfield:

I hope that they listen to this. So, how does it go from that to you wanting to photograph, you know,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

it definitely started I said, it was a lot just around the neighborhood first. and then I did, I kind of just put out some feelers to see if anyone wanted to do any free sessions. And, I think I did three my first weekend and they were all so drastically different. that it definitely had me questioning some things because it was just very all over the place. I think I had one person want to do a very spooky like smoke bomb session. I had a couple who didn't have an engagement session who like wanted to have that kind of thing and then I had a cosplay like person and it was just all over the place but all of them were so fun and I think for me it was the reaction of them. It was two of those three people specifically had in a way like self image concerns, and were very much like, Hmm, you're not going to post these anywhere. Right. And I was like, well, I would love to, but like, if you don't want me to, I won't. And both of them right after receiving it, we're like, post them all. I love these. I feel great for like what this was. And I think that just that reaction really kind of just like stuck me, stuck me there.

Raymond Hatfield:

Why do you think it was different? Do you think that it was something that you did? Obviously, if they have body, concerns, they've had their photos taken before and they've seen those photos and they weren't thrilled with them. Why do you think once they saw your photos, they were so happy with them?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I think a lot of times too, like, yes, they've had their photo taken, but I think a lot of, times we take our own pictures. Like we take selfies. Or we have someone like, say cheese real quick at the party or whatever it is, but I find that a lot of people, at least I've never even considered going and getting professional photos. Especially people that don't have families yet. And like, that's just not something that a lot of people, at least in my friend circle, have ever really done. And so I think just getting that like objective, there we go, that objective perspective, like outside of your own self and seeing yourself at different angles than you would take your own pictures from and not worrying about who's taking the picture and like just getting comfortable and in that setting. I'm not sure. I don't know if that answers your question.

Raymond Hatfield:

It does, it definitely helps lead me down the path. So Did you know these people personally or were these complete strangers to you? You did know them. Yes, these are

Elizabeth DeVoe:

all my closest friends,

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah. Gotcha. Okay, so that, does make it a little easier. So If these people were complete strangers, do you think that you would be able to make them feel as comfortable in front of a camera?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

It depends on the session. Like, for example, the things that those people said was, um, like, the person in the couple, she was like, I've never, loved how I've looked just genuinely smiling in a picture. Like, it was something as simple as that. She's like, and you captured this specific picture of me laughing or me smiling, and it was natural. Oh, beautiful there. and I do think it depends on the session because I just had my first minis and like, those are 15 minute sessions. And like, I had a family come in and be like, we're very camera shy. And I'm like, we're going to do the best that we can in this 15 minutes and we're going to have fun with it. But it's definitely a different experience than like my two hour intimate portraits that I can do with my friends where we can sit down and we can like just hang out for a minute and we can relax. And I've had a consultation with you before to talk about all of those things. So it really just, I think it's possible in all different sessions, but it definitely, the approach changes.

Raymond Hatfield:

You just really, really jumped on in with just picking up the camera, essentially within the past three months to going from

Elizabeth DeVoe:

it has been wild.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, tell me your approach for making, these strangers, these families feel comfortable in front of your camera, just within 15 minutes. Do you think that that ability comes from? working with children at your job, or is this something else? Are you asking them questions to try to figure out their concerns and their desires?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I do send out a questionnaire at first. So this is this was my very first time. This was my I had three families this last weekend, and those are, I think, outside of one other family. The first time I've worked with, like, complete strangers. So I did send out a, questionnaire with them and just to specify like, okay, what combinations of photos would you like? So I know all of that before, so we don't have to waste our time talking about that. And like, what are your, if there's any specific goals for this? So like one of them was, she's due in December, so she wanted to capture that. One of them's like, we want these for holiday cards. So those are good things to know. So I don't have to like, find that out in those 15 minutes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

But outside of that, I do think I'm sorry, is

Raymond Hatfield:

that the puppet that you were talking about? Is that a tail?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Yes, sure. It is. Oh, look

Raymond Hatfield:

at that face

Elizabeth DeVoe:

My goodness, I lost my train of thought. Oh, but yes, I do think working with kids is absolutely a plus because all of these families had children. I'm also just very naturally, like, if you want a bad dad joke, I'll tell one, like,

Raymond Hatfield:

quick, tell me one,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

don't do that. That was not on the

Raymond Hatfield:

spot. Okay.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

As well as like, I've worked customer service my whole life. You know, even before teaching, teaching is customer service in a way as well. But like,

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

that's just, that's kind of my whole thing. Like, yeah, that's awesome. Goopiness

Raymond Hatfield:

kind of

Elizabeth DeVoe:

hits them a little bit.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So just be genuine in, who you are. And I like how, having that customer service. is really important. And I think that it's something that maybe a lot of other photographers don't think about necessarily. I always see that like when most photographers get into it, they they'll get into photography. They love their photos. They see it as a form of art, which it is, but then when they go to get people in front of the camera, they feel as if they're selling art rather than providing a service, right? And where customer service differences, where it differs is that in customer service, you're trying to solve their needs, right? Whatever their desires are in that moment. And then of course you can tailor your response to that in the form of your photography. So I can see why. You know, you've already had a great response from your photos. So going back to those, first few sessions and even these minis that you had, what sort of technical challenges did you run into? or did you have any concerns or worries coming into them?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

So many,

Raymond Hatfield:

so many, you know what? I would be worried if you didn't. So I'm glad that you said that.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

And honestly, the only reason I started taking on like actual like paid clients is because somebody approached me and I was like, well, that seems like a good time to start. but I definitely jumped in very fast. I think, Focus is a big, problem for me right now. I think, I know I've talked with Kim Kimberly a lot about this, but I know I, I honestly have not figured out if my camera has that, that everyone's got that eye tracking, face tracking.

Raymond Hatfield:

If you're shooting with a. Is it the excess you said? It does

Elizabeth DeVoe:

not. I didn't think so. And so I'm sitting there trying to keep saying, I know you, I listened to an episode recently, I couldn't tell you which one, where you're talking about how much it takes to change the focus point on a canon. And so like, it's constantly doing that. So focus has been an issue as well as editing. I think I'm definitely still working on editing. And lighting. Those last

Raymond Hatfield:

two are going to be things that you're going to work on forever. I mean, I still, I still struggle with, you know, I posted in the group a few days ago about yeah, the shadows, right. The family portraits that I did after the ceremony.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I had to read the comments to try to figure out what it was. I didn't notice.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh my gosh. Well, okay. So then, yeah, obviously, yeah, that's just something that like, you're going to just deal with forever, and even with editing, it's like, now I got to figure out this new thing. And now apparently Lightroom came out with like some huge update that everybody's talking about. And I'm like,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

well, now I got to figure that

Raymond Hatfield:

out.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

So many problems with Lightroom, and I think it's more so my tablet that I'm trying to run it on versus Lightroom, but that's been a really big hurdle.

Raymond Hatfield:

Lightroom is not a light program. Let's just say that it is definitely considered a pro app and requires a lot more resources that it actually shouldn't require as much resources as it does. But, you know, leave that up to the people at Adobe, I suppose. Let's go back to the whole, being there in person, the technicals. the biggest issue that you're facing is focus, right? I can tell you, from personally using the Canon XS, which I think came out in 2008,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I think

Raymond Hatfield:

eight. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it's been a while. It's in digital terms, it's a very old camera and 2008 was really, I mean, the cusp of consumer digital photography as far as DSLR goes. So I think that that's something that. Here's an analogy, right? I'd been like riding dirt bikes and stuff as I was, young, right? But actually taking a motorcycle on the road is an entirely different experience. And if anybody knows anything about motorcycles, my first road motorcycle was a 250. And it's considered to be very underpowered, right? And I was upset. I was like, Mom, come on, like, I need like a bigger bike, let me buy a bigger bike. And she said, No, start with a 250. And even though I didn't want to, I think that having a bike that was underpowered forced me to learn how to use it effectively, right? Like how to get the most out of it. I just assumed that having a proper 600, 750 would be Just a better all around bike. I'd have a better experience, but that wasn't the case. And when I did finally upgrade to a seven 50, I was much more comfortable in that position because I had already been in plenty positions where I had something that was underpowered and I needed to figure out how to make that work. So kind of tying it back into where you are, I think that having an older camera body, once you really become proficient in it and learn its little nuances, when it is time for you to upgrade, I mean, you're going to be Light years ahead of people who just, decide to get into photography and buy that full frame camera right away. so I would just encourage you to continue to, to keep trying and figure out what's going to work best. And if I can give you a little, suggestion here when it comes to focusing. You're like, please, yes, anything.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Give them all to me. I wasn't talking to you. This needs to be your interview.

Raymond Hatfield:

Not at all. When it comes to those older cameras, the center focus point is always going to be the strongest. Because it's going to be a cross type focus point, whereas all the others are not. So that means that if you can only use that center point, you're going to have a much better, success rate in the photos that you get in focus. Now, obviously in your head, you might think to yourself, well, then that means that all my photos are going to look exactly the same because people's heads are going to be directly in the center of the frame, but do a little YouTube work and figure out how to do what's called back button focusing. have you looked into this at all?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Haven't.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you know how when you half press the shutter button, it finds focus, right? So back button focus removes that. So when you half press the shutter, it doesn't focus at all. But there's a button on the back of your camera that when you press it with your thumb, it will focus. So what that allows you to do is, if you're standing, 10 feet away from somebody and they're standing there, say it's a couple and they're just hanging out together and they're looking at each other and they're kissing or whatever, and you take 15, 20 photos. You don't want your camera to spend time refocusing every time you go to take a photo because you're the same distance away from them, there's no need to refocus. So you can get that focus once, and as long as you're in the same spot, and they're in the same spot, every time you take a photo, it's not going to have to spend that time to refocus, and you know that all those photos are going to be in focus because you're the same distance away. And this is one of those things that really helped me increase my focus. Hit rate, I suppose, in those focus points because, of that exactly, you know, you're going to be able to just nail that and it's going to help you figure out more about focus as well. As far as like your depth of field, because you're going to realize if I take a step forward, they're going to be out of focus unless I refocus. If I take a step backwards, somehow they're still in focus and that's all about depth of field. And once you figure that out, I think through personal experience. Again, you're going to be a much more competent photographer when it comes time to upgrade, whether it be your lens or your camera. does that make sense? Does that kind of,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

yeah, I appreciate it. I definitely, I had read somewhere about the center focus being like ideal, especially for family portraits. And I think this last time I did that. For two families and then switch. I did switch to auto focus for my last, just to compare and see what was that. And I think definitely, I definitely prefer to do it like a, choose my own focus point and go from there. So

Raymond Hatfield:

of course, I'll

Elizabeth DeVoe:

definitely look at that, that back button though.

Raymond Hatfield:

during your journey here, like while you've been learning, I want to know, is there anything that you've been taught or that you've heard that you thought to yourself, this doesn't make any sense, or I don't think that this applies to me or anything that you have felt. is wrong information, if that makes sense?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I was worried I wouldn't have an answer for that, but I do. I do. I think, and I, I don't remember who this interview was with recently that I listened to, but having one very specific niche is something that concerns me. feeling like I have to choose something because I think my heart is pulled in a couple of different directions with it. like I have like my intimate portraits is something that I really love doing. I would love to get into elopements, but I also don't want to be tied down to those things. And I feel like a lot of times you hear photographers say, like, you have to find your niche to be successful. and so the couple of times that I've heard other photographers be like, no, I do this, this, this, and this. Like gives me some comfort because I, don't want to be tied down to just like one or two different things. I know specializing in a couple of things is very important. That way you can get better and better at it, but also. There's so much to photograph. Like, I want to be tied down to just one thing. Um, that's one big thing I've been thinking about.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. I think that's fair. And I think that a lot of new photographers feel a very similar way because so many photographers do, do say that exact same thing and myself to a degree. I've said that as well, plenty of times. So tell me like, what is it that scares you most about that or about the idea of that?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I think just being limited and I guess I, maybe I said scared, but maybe, it's just like a concern that I just don't want to be limited to that. I mentioned before, I kind of like to jump, like I'm a very restless person. And so if I'm doing the same thing over and over and over again, I'm going to get a little restless with it. And I guess I'm just hoping that if I do have to stick or not have to, but if I do end up sticking with one or two niches or specific things that I photographed that, that But there's enough variation in it to does that make sense to keep me engaged or to keep me

Raymond Hatfield:

it doesn't make sense.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Okay, next question here. what's your end goal with photography.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I am very inspired by oh my goodness I should have written his name down. You'll probably recognize that he does elopement, as well as like the anti boudoir. and he has such a unique style. He also does tattooing on the side. I'll have to find his name.

Raymond Hatfield:

Is it Dylan Howell?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

No,

Raymond Hatfield:

no.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I'll find it for sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

Did I interview

Elizabeth DeVoe:

them

Raymond Hatfield:

on the

Elizabeth DeVoe:

podcast? I think so.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

But anyway, I'll have to find it

Raymond Hatfield:

anyway.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

No, maybe not. Anyway, his name is Chewy. Okay. Okay. but he does, elopements that kind of turn into more intimate sessions. And like, that's something I'm very drawn to. So my end goal, honestly, is like, I've loved the, I hesitate to call it boudoir, but the intimate portraits, the elopements, the kind of smaller, more like emotional stuff. It's really what I've been. Hello. So that would be, if I had an end goal in mind, like right now, I'm not saying that it won't change. That would be it is heading towards the instrument through elopement, like kind of world.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you see yourself leaving?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I would like to,

Raymond Hatfield:

yes,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

that would be the end goal. I would like to, again, I've only been doing this a few months, so I don't want to like speak too much for myself right now, but it seems to be going in a direction that puts that in the realm of possibilities.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So I don't know If you recognize this or not, but knowing that, that you've entertained the idea of leaving teaching. And when I asked you what it is that, you know, what's your end goal, what is it that you want to shoot? You only really mentioned one thing. And that was elopements that turned into intimate portraits. Right? Right. I think that, obviously, I was going to say, if you have no intentions of leaving teaching, then there's no need to niche down at all. The only reason why niching down is, I think, recommended, is not so much that you can get better at one specific thing, but when it's, you're known for that one thing, like if you only photographed headshots of CEOs. Just an example here. Who do you think a business is gonna call? Do you think they're gonna call somebody who does a little bit of families, a little bit of weddings, right? You know, a little bit of mini sessions and then sometimes they do headshots. So from a business perspective, that's all that it is, right? You don't buy a Coke because you want a Sprite. Yeah, you buy a coke because coke does one thing and it does it well and it knows what it is Now from personal experience I can tell you I mean I shoot weddings. I market myself as a wedding photographer I'll shoot anything like if my neighbors want family photos. I'll go photograph that am I going to photograph my kids? Of course i'm going to photograph my kids, I'm not just gonna look at them and be like, sorry only weddings and engagements guys. No photos today

Elizabeth DeVoe:

See you later.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, exactly. So I think that concern that you have, I wouldn't worry about it too much. You'll always find a space to be able to photograph whatever it is that you want. And legitimately, my recommendation is for anybody who's been shooting less than five years is to literally take every single opportunity that you have to photograph anything, whatever it is, food, commercial, real estate, wedding, whatever it is. Take that, because I think right now, while your heart is telling you like, elopements and intimate portraits are my thing, scientifically, there's just no way that you know for sure. I mean, until you photograph everything. You could find that architectural, architectural, architecture photography is your thing, you might figure that out. So I would encourage you don't try to limit yourself right now. If that thing comes up. You're going to find it, and then you'll just go down that path.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

You're absolutely right. I think one thing that I think about when it comes to that, that kind of puts it at the forefront of my of my mind is one of the other biggest things I struggle with, which is social media. And, you go to these photographers pages, and everything is so consistent in like their style is very clear. And like, you go to my page and it's got like, it's from the beginning of my painting journey about three years ago, four, five years ago. Like it's got my first picture from then to the last photo I took. And it's just a hodgepodge of everything. And I'm always like, this doesn't look appealing to probably anybody but me because it's my personal journey but like, there's no style there's a leaf on this photograph a train on this one in a person on this one because I'm taking pictures of everything. But I remember one thing I heard somebody say it was like, post the things that you want to take. Or, and so even if you're photographing everything, like advertise or post the ones that you want to continue taking.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Which I struggle with

Raymond Hatfield:

again, I don't mean this to downplay your skills and your abilities. I think you're just still very new in this whole journey. Absolutely. And it's not something that you could possibly know. You know what I mean? Right. Like, unless you could tell me, I only shoot. Elopements for couples between, 28 and 40

Elizabeth DeVoe:

years. I think I've never even shot an elopement. I'm saying that just because that's what I want. Like, that's what no, of course. We've been done it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Exactly. And that's what I'm saying. how do you expect to have some sort of cohesive social media presence? When you haven't figured out the one thing that lights you up the most that you want to photograph. You're right. Yeah. Challenge you to just get off social media. Just say, forget social media for now. Don't even worry about it. You know, here's another question. Is that when it comes to social media, did you find it inspiring or do you find it kind of, almost like, Oh, I wish I was that good. do you feel more positive vibes or negative reaction?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I think if I'm looking to it for a specific purpose, So for example, like before my boudoir sessions, I would look on there for specific poses or for specific lighting. It can be useful. outside of that, it's like, oh, these are gorgeous. One day I'll be there. I definitely, I remember hearing some of the people that you interviewed talk about the beginning of their journey and how they literally went and unfollowed everybody. Like unfollowed all the photographers. Cause it's just like, didn't ask for critique and just, cause it's overwhelming. It can definitely be overwhelming.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. What did you feel about that?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

It's definitely a suggestion that like I've considered and I attempted to not ask for too much critique for a little while until I got, more concerned with my editing because that's always a struggle as well. Um, but I don't know, I mean, I think for a little while it can be good advice until you find, the thing is, is I think part of the reason I've put so much pressure on it this early is that there's much knowledge and there's so many people willing to help. And there's so much information that I feel like, almost like there's no excuse for me not to do well. Does that make sense? Like, I feel like all of the answers are within my reach. So if I'm not succeeding, it's on me for not going to go and get those answers. I don't know if that makes sense.

Raymond Hatfield:

A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I love that personal responsibility. That's great. So then, when it comes to, looking for critiques, I really think that there's two different aspects of your photos being critiqued. It's both the technical side and then the artistic side. And what's difficult is that you can't really critique the artistic side because you don't know what you're trying to say artistically. So at this point, like, asking for feedback, I think, can still be really relevant, as long as you frame it in a technical question, you know? Why did I miss focus? how much depth of field should this photo have? is this photo too underexposed? Is it too overexposed? You know, what do you think about white balance in this photo? When you frame it from a technical standpoint, I think that you're going to get more information out of the critiques that you get. whereas with social media, like it's really hard to get that unless you're in some sort of group, obviously like the beginner photography podcast, Facebook group, that's where I found you. Can I ask how, how did you find the group

Elizabeth DeVoe:

through the podcast? Like I said, I think just searching through Spotify and finding the podcast and then hearing about the Facebook group.

Raymond Hatfield:

What made you want to join? there's a million photography groups online. what made you want to join?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

obviously it was, geared towards beginners, which was very helpful. I think more so, like what made me stick to this group more than any other is you've just created such a community of. Honesty, but also respect. I'm in a few other like photography groups and some local groups. And you can't go a week without and I'm not I'm not bashing any other group, but there's just not that. sense of community set in those groups. and there can just be some, a lot of negativity and a lot of, you know, being brutally honest is one thing, but doing it in a degrading way is another thing. And I think, you've just set up such a community that I think I mentioned this when you first reached out to me that like, I'm glad it's not seen that I'm bugging you all in the group because I post so much, but it's just, there's a sense of safety and like I can go to this group and get the answers that I need. And also feel supported. and not to say that like harsh critique is bad. I would love that harsh critique, but I get it in such a loving way, which is just a nice bonus. so I really just think it's just that community feel that you've set up and you've done such a great job of keeping over the years, the three months I've been there.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Come on. Let's be honest here. I really appreciate that. hope that I don't sound like a broken record here, but really it's like, I'm just there, you know, y'all are the ones who show up and treat each other that way. it's not just me. it's really you. And I think that that's what makes so great, and I try to figure out, like, why is this happening? You know, why is everybody so nice in this group? Why does everybody want to be genuinely helpful when I, like you, I've been in other photography groups, and it's not the same way, and I think I'm just kind of on this never ending quest to figure out, like, why, why are people acting this way? Like, I love it, don't get me wrong, but are they just leaving the group if it's not for them or like,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I've got to go. Yeah, exactly. I think too, part of it was like, knowing, obviously like I hadn't have not met you, but I feel like once you listen to a podcast, podcasts are very intimate. You listen to one for so long that you feel like, you know, the people in it, which is, I don't know if that's weird for you to hear, because obviously you don't know all of your listeners. You've invited your listeners into your life. And so once. Like we jump over to the Facebook group, we kind of have that in the back of our minds. Like we know about you and like, we kind of get the vibe that you give off and just the kindness that you carry with yourself. And so maybe that's part of it too, is that we come over with that knowledge. And that kind of background on you versus just like joining a random group where you have no face or voice behind who runs it. I don't know. I don't know if that contributes to that.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's funny because in obviously on the podcast, I'm very nice, but in real life, I'm a very angry person. I like to yell at strangers. So I'm glad that I don't give off the vibe of, uh, of my real life personality. So, it's obviously working. This is fantastic.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Um, yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

so yeah, if you run into me on the streets, I will scream. I will be very upset. don't talk to me. wouldn't that be the weirdest, anyway, so same thing to think about. I want to know for you, like, what is next for you? Because we, you've gotten to this point to where you're at, like, what are some things that you see need, that you need more education on, that you need more practice with maybe that you need, physically, what's next for you in photography?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

So I think there's a lot of technical things, of course, that I can continue to work on if I'm being honest, though, I think the one thing I'm going to do is take a step back, but not from photography itself, I think for those first, these first few months, it has been. If I'm not actively teaching in front of six and seven year olds, it's been my full consumption, which has been amazing. I've enjoyed every second of it, but I also stopped listening to music because of that. And I think, and I don't know, I feel like Callum said this early on that, like, he got a lot of inspiration from music. and I think that because things kind of took off rapidly within a few weeks, which I didn't expect, my mind went more to the business side of things when I'm just not, I think I can pursue that somewhat, but I'm not there yet. It's still so new to me, and I think things just took off so fast that I want to take a step back to enjoy it. And to start taking those walks around my neighborhood again and finding all those small things that I like to photograph. so for me, I think that's my next step is to, I don't know if that makes sense, but to continue just learning and educating myself as much as I can. And. Taking a step back from the business side of it right now, because again, it's only been a few months and that feels like it started to, in the last few weeks, kind of take over and I have a lot to learn and I have a lot to keep going with.

Raymond Hatfield:

Again, I love that, that self realization, because when it comes to the business side, I can tell you that like, it can be a grind. So like the longer that you can keep photography fun, the more you're going to enjoy it for longer, obviously. So that's, that's awesome. I love to hear that. I know that I interrupted you earlier when I asked if there was any particular standout episodes of the podcast. Was there anybody else who you had on that list aside from Andrew Billington?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

There is and I don't want to butcher her name. Adesina is her last name. O R E. Oh, my goodness. You know what? I apologize. I'm gonna take a step back because one of your episodes made me go find another episode and I don't believe she was on your podcast.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, but this person stood out to you? Well now I have to know who it is.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Because I listened to Michael Sasser.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, yeah.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Okay, so I started there when I was thinking about Boudoir. So I listened to Michael Sasser and you had one other Boudoir person on there. Who I can't recall her name, but she was very specific. And like, I'm hesitant to call it boudoir. Like she's the one that brought like intimate portraits into my. Um, so I listened to those two episodes and those kind of got me started on that journey. I'll spell out the other one for you if you'd like.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, absolutely. I'll write it down. I

Elizabeth DeVoe:

got that one mixed up. her first name is O R E. I don't think it's or. And it's Adesina is her last name. A D E S I N A.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm definitely going to reach out. What was it about her then that resonated with you so much?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Same thing with the others. It's really just, I mean, the way she phrased it was like, I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm going to tell you get into your cuddle position, like is something that she said. And then I'm just going to capture that moment. Like it was, along the same lines of like the Andrew Billington thing, of really just like capturing those moments. I'm really drawn to those. I just recently listened to the, Unposed episode. And like, those are the ones I'm really interested in. It's just capturing those genuine moments, those questions and those prompts that you can ask. I found that asking couples what's for dinner is really funny to them because for some reason at 12 pm, 1 pm, they have no clue and they just start laughing. Um, so like just getting those, just learning how to capture those genuine moments, learning how to create that space. I'm drawn to those episodes for sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wonderful. I love it. Well, there's definitely a space for it. So don't feel like I guess maybe this isn't a message to you, but just others listening to where, you feel like you have to post people and they have to look perfect. And, like everybody wants to be on the cover of Vogue. That's not the case. And there's absolutely I mean, I would go as far to say like, I think that The majority of people just want photos of themselves and who they are authentically, they're just taught, or they have this preconceived idea that photography is something other than that. And we've just gotten to a place to where it doesn't have to be anymore. And it can, you know, it doesn't cost us 1 or 2 every time we take a photo. So now we can be more experimental with our photos and get more photos That people are gonna like so I would just say stick with that and if that's really calling you inside like don't worry about anything else like don't focus on anything else because if you can get a photo that makes somebody say to themselves like wow this is me or wow this is us there's nothing more powerful in the entire world the photo could be crazy grainy it could even be a little bit out of focus way overexposed and if they say that That's all that matters. That's all that

Elizabeth DeVoe:

matters. And I, cause I do think that like there is a time and place for posing sometimes, but I think of it, this is a very in my brain comparison, but I think of it like a preset almost like you are the preset, you are just being you, I'm going to stick that on there. Like you're just you. And then I might tweak it a little bit. I might say, Oh, just move your hand here a little bit. It's cut off. Or. Yeah. turn just slightly this way. Like, that's kind of how I think of it. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect sense. In fact,

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I might tweak you a little bit.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've never thought about it that way. But, when you say it like that, that's exactly right. that's exciting to think about. That is so fun. we are the preset. We are the, so we just, we leave them as they are and then we just tweak it.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Yeah. I got to think about that one for a

Raymond Hatfield:

while.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

I just recently did an intimate session with my couple friends, which is one of the first things I feel very, very proud of. and that's kind of how I explained it to them. I was like, be prepared to just like, be you. Cause if I do any intimates, like I'm definitely going to do a consultation with you before, like, even if you're my best friend, we're going to talk about those first. and that's what I told them. I was, I was like, I'm going to just, Capture you as you are and I might just ask you to like move your foot a little bit or I think as Michael Sasser said you're going to arch your back and point your toes a lot. but other than that, like just be you.

Raymond Hatfield:

that all comes down to that customer service background. Having that consultation before again, that's, really going to help you out in the long run. But again, don't focus on business. Don't focus on business. Don't focus on social media. Don't focus on any of that. Unfollow all the photographers who you follow. Just focus on your craft. Get to a point to where you love your work, consistently, and then everything else will just fall into place.

Elizabeth DeVoe:

But the fact that I'm still enjoying it as much as I am with all of that added, like with the crazy business y stuff and the social media and all of that technic ness. The fact that I'm still loving it as much as I am gives me a lot of hope. Good,

Raymond Hatfield:

good. Elizabeth, we're at the end of our time here. Before I let you go, can you let us know, where we can find you online? Aside from the group, where can we see more of your photos?

Elizabeth DeVoe:

Sure. So my Facebook and Instagram are the same. It's just Elizabeth DeVoe photography. I do have an intimate, Instagram page. It's Intimate Portraits by Ellie. E L L I E. And that's it.

Raymond Hatfield (2):

All right, huge. Thank you to Elizabeth for coming on the podcast. Your one action item from today's interview with Elizabeth is to shoot for free to gain experience. You know, shooting for free does not ruin or devalue photography when it's done correctly. You heard how valuable they were for Elizabeth, and I can attest to, how powerful they have been for me as well. So think of the type of work that you wanna shoot and then ask yourself if you know anybody who would be able to help you achieve that. Whether it be a friend with a family, relative getting married, or maybe your neighbor is a local shop owner, you know, whatever. Then it's all about how you sell it. So rather than labeling them as quote unquote free sessions, like you're just giving them away to anybody. Reach out and tell them that you're working on something new in one, because you are. It could be a new lighting technique. It could be a new posing flow. Whatever it is that you wanna hone your skills on, that's fine. Tell them and then ask if they'd be willing to help you out. And then of course you'll send them the photos once the shoot is over. After somebody agrees. Now plan out exactly what it is that you need. Maybe you need a specific pose or composition or maybe you're working on your lighting, you know, whatever it is. But you have to plan it out so that when the day for the shoot comes, you go and you get it. This isn't simply about just having somebody in front of your camera. This is about making the most of it. So that at the end of your shoot, you will have grown your portfolio to share and you will have made somebody happy. There you go. That's it for today. Remember to come join our free and amazing community of photographers just like you, looking to learn and grow your skills by heading over to beginner photo pod.com/group now. Thanks again for listening to today's episode, and remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.