The Beginner Photography Podcast

Reclaim Your Joy For Photography with Dave Mihaly

• Raymond Hatfield

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#548 Dave Mihaly is a passionate advocate of film photography who shares his journey of transforming personal loss into a therapeutic creative outlet. He recounts experiencing a turning point in 2000 following his mother's death, which highlighted for him the importance of photographing loved ones and turned photography into a personal therapy. Despite starting with analog film photography during an era when digital was emerging, Dave explains how the tactile nature and the anticipation of film photography continue to captivate him. 

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. Therapeutic Role of Photography - Dave shares how photography became a means to cope with grief, helping him process emotions and find a creative outlet during difficult times.
  2. From Grief to Passion - Dave's initial drive to capture family memories evolves into an artistic passion fueled by the characteristics and challenges of film photography.
  3. Embracing Accessibility in Photography - Dave advocates for an enjoyable and accessible approach to photography, favoring spontaneity and creativity over technical perfection.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Film Photography: A process that involves capturing images using a camera with film rather than a digital sensor; Dave appreciates it for its tactile nature and unique aesthetic. 
  • Zone Focus: A technique used with cameras that have no autofocus capability, requiring the photographer to manually estimate the focus distance.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. How can photography serve as a therapeutic tool in dealing with personal loss or trauma?
  2. What are the pros and cons of film versus digital photography in your personal experience or observation?

RESOURCES:
Follow Dave Mihaly on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theoldcameraguy/
Check out The Old Camera Guy on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@theoldcameraguy

Download your free copy of
46 Creative Photo Ideas to Get You Out of a Rut
at https://creativeimageideas.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Dave Mihaly:

Have fun with it. I don't want to say lower your expectations, but maybe adjust your expectations to realize that not every shot has to be perfect. You want to express something and you can express something in a shot that's maybe not technically perfect. I think people should not get so hung up on taking the best technical picture. Take the best picture for you. And if that is just, if it, is your expression, if it's what you wanted to capture, whether the picture is technically perfect or not, I think you've got something there.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I am your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today I'm chatting with the old camera guy, Dave Mahale, all about bringing fun back to photography. But first the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by cloud spot with cloud spot. You can impress your clients with a beautiful gallery that is easy to view, share, and download on any device. You can control image size at a watermark and download limits. So grab your free forever account today over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you are ready. Now, story time here. A few years ago, I was in Kansas city to shoot a wedding, and the morning of a wedding morning of a wedding is always kind of not stressful, but like there's this, what do I do with my time? You know, especially if it starts a little bit later. Do I go out? Do I prep? Do I just, sit and do nothing? So typically what I do is I'll go down to the hotel gym and just try to get some steps in, move my body. Cause you never know what the wedding day is gonna bring. And at this point, I had already stopped booking future weddings. I was feeling burnt out, post COVID wedding photography for me never felt more like a job than it did then. And I really wanted to get back to when photography was a creative pursuit, something fun. So in that headspace, I remember searching Apple podcasts for, I don't know, photography project or something like that. And an interview with today's guest, Dave, on the Embrace the Grain podcast popped up. I loved it. I then found Dave on and I really enjoyed his, non influencer the whole thing was. How pro slowdown and have fun with photography it was. How non pretentious it was. In the majority of his videos, Dave just uses a point and shoot. And he brings that, that energy to you, use a point and shoot if you want. And since then, I find that I, I'm drawn to his videos, I'll watch his videos when I need some sort of like reset on photography. Maybe after a new camera comes out and there's all these reviews that make it look like this camera is, all be all best camera that could ever exist. You have to drop all your money on it right now. Anyway, that wedding in Kansas City, I remember a few of those images, but what I remember most is that that next morning, I woke up, before dawn and drove downtown and I just walked the streets of Kansas City as, as the sun rose, with my X100V at the time and I was just taking photos. I later found out that it was a very sketchy part of town and that, I should be thanking my lucky stars that I'm here talking to you today. But hey, ignorance is bliss, right? But it was during that walk that I made my own attempt at a Dave Mahale old camera guy video. Which I'll actually link to in the show notes if you want to check it out. But Dave changed something in me that day, and I hope today you'll be able to pull something out from our conversation that will change something within you. That was kind of a long intro, but, in today's interview, here's what you're gonna learn. We're gonna learn how to love non instant gratification when it comes to photography, how not having the newest gear can help you focus on what's important in your images, and cheap ways to dip your toes into film photography. Oh, and if you stick around to the end, I'm actually going to share how you can win a brand new film camera that I will be giving away. Not bad, right? So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Dave Mahale. Dave, my first question for you is, I want to know when did you know that photography first was going to play an important role in your life?

Dave Mihaly:

I think I first realized that in the year 2000 for a couple reasons, both of which actually have to do with my mom's death. And that might sound a little weird, but my mom passed away October 28th, 2000. And, when it came time to get photographs together for a memorial slideshow at the funeral home, This is sad. There just weren't that many photographs to choose from. the first reason I, I kind of realized at that time that photography was probably going to play a more of a major role in my life is I didn't want to see that happen again. For instance, like when my dad passed, other family members, it just really kind of stressed the importance to me that you need to photograph the ones you love. And that became much more of a mission. In the year 2000, again, after my mom's passing, and it was a non negotiable, so, it's easier now, obviously, with, iPhone, smartphone in your pocket, you can document everything. And, that wasn't really the case, again, when I was growing up. Full disclosure, I was born in 1969, so, when I started photography, film photography was just photography, there was not a digital thing. And, there's a little bit more effort involved as far as you know capturing those family memories all worth it. And again with my mom's passing I realized that probably more than ever I think the second reason again is also related to my mom's passing and that is we were pretty close and when she died, I think I realized even more now looking back. I was devastated was shattered I guess is another way to say it and I became despondent and I will tell you Raymond it was a dark place for me Photography, at that time really became more of just photographing pretty things but a therapy for me in a way because it gave me something to do Something to do with my hands, specifically with film photography, loading the film, just that tactile sensation, feeling of accomplishment because when you develop your film and you see those negatives for the first time, it's kind of a magic moment, at least for me it is. And it gave me something to um, look forward to, which was hard to see at that time, honestly, again, because I was, it was pretty depressed. And gave me hope so I realized again in 2000 the power of photography And how I don't think it's overstated to say it really did help save my life at that time And that's that's really when I realized

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. I appreciate you sharing that story. That's very emotionally. That's, that's very close. I guess, how do you go from looking at the few photos of your mother that you have to, to wanting to dive in? Because I know that today, if I were to look at your YouTube channel, there's not a lot of portraits. It's a lot of photo walks. It's a lot of going outside. So, talk to me about that. Those early days, you said that photography became a bit of a therapy for you.

Dave Mihaly:

It did and I think to some degree honestly it still is. My tendency my nature is that I have a hard time sitting still so like to be out and about and I like to get my steps in every day and that becomes more important as I get older and just carrying a camera with me became part of that in that I can get my steps in I can explore the world around me it's kind of funny you said that about The portraits and how if you look at my portfolio if you look at Instagram feeds youtube for that matter You're exactly right. There's not a preponderance of portraits on there but I think part of it is it's a couple things but one thing is I think it's just One of those things that I don't maybe present to the world as much because there's, the real world you and then there's the online presence. And as you know, those two things can be wildly different sometimes. So it might be just a case of some of that more personal work that maybe I don't share all the time online. Although I have done that more recently, like with my wife, for example. Sometimes with my kids, especially my older son who's in college now. So I do think I'm sharing more than now. The other reason I'm sharing a few more portraits now than I used to is, I am lucky enough to be in a community where we have local walks fairly frequently. Matter of fact, we've got one coming up this Saturday. There's another studio session that some friends of mine are putting together for Sunday. So I've got a couple things coming up this weekend. So part of it was just maybe not the opportunity. Of course. You know 2020 the world kind of ground to a halt and didn't do a lot of portraits uh, for a couple years

Raymond Hatfield:

Let's do a little bit of program, uh, The, the picture of a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a. Let's do it.

Dave Mihaly:

a good quality camera. it's not the sharpest tool in the shed or sharpest lens for that matter. But that was part of his charm too. And one of the, I think one of the big things about it was as far as what made me use it so often is that it could slip in your pocket. So you literally could take it everywhere with you. So when I had it with me everywhere, and again, this is, before I had a smartphone, certainly because it was 2000, and, it was just very accessible. And so I started taking pictures, and at the time, the place where I got it from was called the Lumographic Society International. It's just called Lumography now. They had kind of a set of 10 rules, which are sort of tongue in cheek, because rule number 10 is there are no rules, and just do your own thing, they really stress the importance of just taking your camera with you, documenting everything, shoot from the hip, just try experimental stuff. And I think really from then, that's what started me in just trying to find the fun side of So we've, You know, we talked about, it got a little bit deep there and heavy with uh, with talking about documenting your family, those loved ones around you, which I think again, to this day is super important, but I think it's just as important, at least to me, to find the fun in photography, find the joy in photography, and, I think it's okay to take your photography seriously, but I don't like to take myself too seriously, so, just the joy and fun of photography is as important to me as just documenting the things we talked about before, too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's a good distinction and I like how you said, we can take our photography seriously and not take ourselves seriously. That's something that, especially for photographers who I hear who want to get into weddings, they're nervous that maybe they're not professional enough, quote unquote, or they don't have the right, just personality for that. But, uh, you can, you like, you can absolutely get into it. But I, want to go back to, talking about this, this transition, cause it seems like 2000 was a very pivotal year for you as far as understanding the importance of photography goes. Starting off with only, you know, it sounds like one or two cameras at that time. And right now I see this whole shelf. I mean, I'm guessing 30, 40, maybe 50 cameras there behind you.

Dave Mihaly:

going. It's about 150 because there's a couple shelves You can't see in my messy studio from the view that you have so it's it's

Raymond Hatfield:

That's hilarious. Ha, ha, What was it about photography, because you said that you weren't really into it that much before the passing of your mother. What was it about going out and shooting? Was it the process? Was it the images that you were creating? Was it just a new hobby? What was it about photography that made you say, you know what, one day I'm going to have hundreds of cameras.

Dave Mihaly:

didn't know back then I was gonna have hundreds of cameras, but I think it's a little bit of all of the above of what you just said I've always been a very visually oriented person I mean some of my earliest memories are just doodling faces all over my mom's and my grandma's Uh, so, I mean, that's, you know, I would have been very young at that point, probably even before elementary school. So I've always been visually oriented. Later on, I took up painting, a little bit of oil, mostly acrylics, that sort of thing. So visual arts have always been kind of my thing. And, then in 2000, again, was kind of surfing internet as one does, came across this Lomo camera, which again was kind of the gateway camera that got me started. I just realized that a different outlet for those, For that expression, it's still visual arts, but, you don't have to mess with turpentine and toxic paints and that sort of thing. for me, and maybe this harks back to my mom's passing too, which, you know, we keep coming back to that. But photography for me is a way to make the impermanent permanent. And I think I felt that more with my mom's passing. And goes back to that again. I think there were really a couple kinds of grief. The obvious grief of losing my mom, but then the secondary grief of knowing that I'm not gonna have the chance to take any more pictures of her was, was a whole other kind of grief that, that kind of hit me. So, again, just a different expression. job, my day job to this day, I'm an eye doctor, I'm an optometrist, so you can't get more visually oriented than literally, Checking people's eyes every day. Visual arts have always been a way for me to kind of again express myself But everything you said It was a new hobby trying something new because at that point I was probably getting a little bit bored with the drawing and the painting that sort of thing and some of the mess you see behind me is still art supplies that I haven't used in a few years But just a, again a different way to express myself a cleaner way you mentioned, you know, what about it is, the process is definitely part of it. You mentioned before, again, that tactile process of looking at the film, looking at the negatives. And I will tell you, I mean, I like photography in general. I'm not one of these film photography purists that says, you know, shoot film, not megapixels. no beef with digital photography at all. Matter of fact, I'm going to use my digital camera. come up pretty soon, my niece is graduating high school, so I'm going to take some more pictures of her. And my son is as well, so take pictures of him as well. for that kind of thing, digital photography definitely has its place, and I think it's, in some ways, a lot better than film photography. I think you could argue. I know other people that are film photography purists, that again, they don't touch digital camera, but, I don't have my own darkroom, so I develop my own film,

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Dave Mihaly:

digital file, and again, some people, Just hold their nose at that. And I, again, I have no problem with that at all. Post processing, same thing. Some people that I have come into contact say, well, if you're a film photographer, you shouldn't edit your photos at all. That's not right. That's, you might as well just shoot digital if you're going to use Photoshop or one of these other programs. And that's just never entered my mind the reason I know it's in truth. I don't edit film Very I don't I do I do light edits, but it's not because I'm morally opposed to editing my film photography It's more like I just don't have the patience for it quite honestly, and that's one of the reasons I use a computer as part of my job a couple screens every day, and so less I have to stare at computer screens when I'm home, I think, the better.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Dave Mihaly:

have no beef with editing. Again, I just don't have the attention span or the patience for it. The amount of editing I do, honestly, is I'll straighten my horizons, because I'm terrible at that. So, that's the first thing I do,

Raymond Hatfield:

same yep,

Dave Mihaly:

I adjust the contrast, typically. And then, if there are any egregious dust spots or streaks from the developer, that sort of thing, I might, the bandaid tool or clone those out somewhat, but that's about it. Because again, that's the whole point of me shooting film is I try to get as much in camera, get the look that I want. And and part of that with film photography in particular is just choosing the right film, right? Because you've got so many different looks with all these different stocks with this black and white color, film, negative film, then you've got experimental films, which I like to have fun with experimental films too, which a lot of people see as just, a gimmick. it is a gimmick, but I like the gimmick. So I have, again, I don't, look down on that kind of stuff too. Again, I just, with film photography, do like the process. And I think part of the reason I got into it in 2000, again, going back to your question is simplicity of the camera that I had, it was uh, an automatic camera. it was not autofocus, it's scale focus or zone focus, some people really can't stand, but after using it for so many years, I got pretty good at, at guessing. It also, it's from Russia, so it was, list, every, the distances on the scale were, listed in meters. I'm a dumb American, so I don't think in meters. So, I I had to say, oh, 0. 8 meters, that's 3 feet ish. Alright, 1. 5 meters, we'll call that 5 feet or so. 3 meters was another setting there, that becomes 10 feet in my brain. Then infinity is infinity where you're using meters or feet. So I think part of the reason I got into film photography heavily again, back there in 2000 was just the accessibility of that camera. I think if I had an all manual camera that was, super involved, and if I had to have a huge understanding of exposure triangle, which I didn't back then, quite honestly. I don't know as I would have gotten into it. So again, I used the term gateway camera before, but that's exactly what it was. Now, all that stuff came later with, learning more of the settings, shooting a man, but even to this day and some of more, of my newer cameras, I have no shame in using the aperture priority settings. If it has it and my dirty little secret, maybe hot take is. I use program mode too, so, and you know what, in some situations, you're, uh, got a kid running around, or an animal, a dog, or something like that, and you're trying to catch autofocus, and auto exposure, it's okay. I've given myself permission to do that.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've given my that's such an important thing. Yeah, in a world. In an art form where there's so many rules, it's important to find something to give yourself permission to make it a whole lot easier. Talk to me about, we were just talking about learning manual there, shooting a manual. I want to know, when you got into photography, did you jump straight in, go to the SLR route, learn all that you could, and then the reason why I ask that is because when I look at your YouTube channel, now forgive me if this is just the things that you're sharing. There's a lot of point and shoot cameras. There's a lot of, a set it and forget it type film photography, that I think, for one, it's a lot more accessible. It's a lot easier to get into. But I wonder if you miss anything from learning manual, or if now this becomes just a, More enjoyable form of film photography. Um, Um,

Dave Mihaly:

camera, in 2000 or 9 and a 99. Then going into 2000 I started using it more and it was really my solo main rig until about 10 years later, 2009, I got a new boss at work and he gave me his wife's old Olympus OM 2 so manual, SLR manual everything. when he gave that to me, I'm like, oh, this camera is cool. I have no idea how to use it. So, I figured, I better figure this out. And again, I'm largely self taught, so, as one does, you go to YouTube University and try to sort things out and get little clues here and there. But, there's no substitute for just getting it out in the field. Putting in the reps and figuring it out on your own and that's exactly what I did So for the first 10 years of my photography, it really was just that simple zone focus camera and then in 2009 that about 10 years later with that uh, SLR and at the time 2009 film photography was, I don't want to say it was going through a crisis, but maybe that's fair to say. But the upside of that was that when I would go to a thrift store, I could get these little point and shoot film cameras for 90 cents, 2. 99 if I was feeling extra fancy. so a couple three bucks, you're gonna get a film camera that, and some of these are actually pretty sought after now, like, something like a Yashica T4,

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow, for 3.

Dave Mihaly:

Yeah, for three bucks, no joke. and I did the same thing. I actually had two Olympus Stylus Epics. One I got for two dollars, one was I splurged and spent three dollars on at the thrift store. But again, 2009 2010, right after I got this SLR, you could do that. So, that SLR really kind of opened me up to, oh, there's other cameras out there. Maybe I'll just look around and see what's out there. And, that kind of ended up with 150 cameras. But, uh, again, for two or three bucks, only out a few bucks you can try different cameras. I certainly wouldn't have this many cameras if I went out and tried to buy film cameras today. because I would grow, go broke pretty quick. But back in the day, you get all of these, again, fairly nice cameras. Now again, some of those, like you said, are point and shoots. Some of the new cameras I get, I've been fortunate enough to have, some companies send me new cameras. So, they're new, they're not vintage cameras, but they function a lot like, really like disposable cameras. They're basically, in my eyes, reloadable, disposable cameras

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm hmm.

Dave Mihaly:

Do you just like the experience? I do because when you don't have to fiddle around with a bunch of settings. It really frees you up to concentrate on composition and subject matter and that's really the stuff that appeals to me. So I'm not a highly technical photographer I mean, I look at it this way. I have one, what I would consider a nice camera. I have a Pentax 6 7. Excellent camera, medium format, very highly regarded. I got that nice, I think it's a f2. 105 lens

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm, beautiful. Beautiful.

Dave Mihaly:

if you miss the focus

Raymond Hatfield:

heh.

Dave Mihaly:

horribly ugly

Raymond Hatfield:

Transcription by ESO. by

Dave Mihaly:

about a hundred pounds Not quite a hundred pounds, but it's heavy. in the wintertime, like it is right now for us in the Midwest with all the snow and cold and single digit temperatures and below. below zero wind chills, it does not, that big metal beast does not operate well in the snow. So I'm not going to take a camera out like that. Now you give me a plastic little reloaded, reloadable disposable, it's going to function fine. There is one button to push and it's a simple shutter and it's going to work when it's 10 degrees outside. But again, it really frees me up to concentrate on composition. So again, I have the capacity, I can shoot a manual, something like Pentax 6 7. Bye.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Mihaly:

just not my thing. So by far what I shoot the most are, as you mentioned, a lot of point and shoots because they're very accessible. They're easy. and they're cameras that just kind of get out of your way, so again, you can take pictures of what you want to take and in a fairly efficient manner. Now they're not going to give you that control that you have with a more professional camera, a one that you can set manual settings on. And again, those have their place too. If I'm going to just set up and do landscape stuff that I've been wanting to shoot and there's no time crunch, that sort of thing. You know, I might take out one of my more manual cameras, but the dispose ones again, have their place too. So I by far shoot those, most. And I will tell you, there is something that kind of bridges the gap between those two. And I have a bunch of Canon EOS film cameras, and so those were the autofocus ones that came out. Well, they, there's been a bunch of them. so they were popular 80s, 90s, into the 2000s a little bit. But the thing I like about those is those can be as manual or as automated as you want them to be, because if you want to shoot it manually, great. Put it on m. Right? Same thing for the lenses. They are autofocus lenses, but they all have manual settings on them. So if you want to shoot manual focus, manual exposure, manual everything, you got it. You can do it. If you want to shoot autofocus, which I do again almost all the time because of my eyes, I'll keep it on autofocus and you have that capacity as well. Same thing with all the different modes. If you want shutter priority, it's on there. If you want aperture priority, which is what I shoot the most, it's on there. If you want program, knock yourself out. It's on there. But if you want manual it's on there, too. So those people ask a lot of times. Well, what is the best camera I should get, as a beginner? What is the best film camera I should get? You know, what should be my first entree into film photography And it's popular a popular sentiment is Oh get one of those classic film cameras like a Pentax K1000. and I'm not knocking that camera It's a great camera and very popular very pricey Looks fantastic because he got this old metal beast. And again, mechanical it's great, but I think what sometimes gets overlooked is these, other ones, because they're plasticky. So they don't look all they're great. They don't have the sexy curves that you're going to get on some of the other mechanical cameras. they don't look like you're shooting a film camera, quite honestly, that they look like early digital cameras. But, to that point, that's another thing I like these Canon EOS lenses or cameras is because you can use the same lenses on the film bodies. And the digital bodies. So you get more bang for your buck. And that's what I do. Again, I'm referenced before how I'm gonna be shooting some senior portraits from my family members. I'll take both and I could just swap one lens, back and forth between digital and camera, digital camera bodies and film camera bodies. But again, I think something like that is a great resource to start with, because you're a little scared of starting or trying film photography, You can start by using program mode and there's not a lot for you to do. You can use program mode. You can use autofocus it's, it's very non intimidating, very accessible. As you said before, then as you progress, learn a little bit more and maybe want to branch out and have more control over your settings, more control over your depth of field and your final image.

Raymond Hatfield:

We've got a full script. And that was once. And we were like, what's this? Because he's a native speaker. And he's now, he's a native speaker. And, he, he's now a native speaker. And he's a native speaker. So, I'm going to make it now, uh, Because I know, I'm not trying to make you a maniac. I'm just doing this on purpose.

Dave Mihaly:

I guess I don't care about that as much, but I think they're kind of the unsung heroes of film photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

You know, it's funny, I have a buddy who had a, uh, it was a Eos Rebel G, I think it was, or something.

Dave Mihaly:

That was my first one, actually.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, yeah. Well, I saw it, he brought it a trip up here once and I saw it and I thought this looks like the cheapest film camera you could buy. As you mentioned, it's plasticky, it just doesn't look like it's gonna withstand much at all, like it's gonna fall apart any day now. And he left it at my house. He went back to Texas, he completely forgot it, and I spent the next few months, shooting with it. And, being a previous Canon shooter myself, I had some various lenses that I could try on this camera, and it was an absolute blast. You know, it was amazing. It was so much fun, and we took a family trip out to California a few years ago. I brought like, I think I probably brought four film cameras and the photos that I got from that camera were hands down my favorite, mostly because of the aperture control. All the other ones, well, except for the K1000, were essentially point and shoots. But, and then I looked on KEH, it's like 50 bucks or something. Like, it's a relatively cheap camera. So, you just got to make sure Uh, contacts are not all corroded and gross and, and worthless. But I don't think you're gonna have much issue with, KEH, in that department. But, wanna ask a question that I'm sure a lot of people are thinking right now, which is, you got into film photography when it was just photography. That was all that there was. Digital came, you're still shooting film, right? Why not make the full transition into digital and why stick with, which at a moment in time, 2008, 2009, 2010 seemed like it was going to go away forever.

Dave Mihaly:

Yeah, probably for the same reason I vinyl on my stereo cassettes even Got a couple 8 tracks too. So I'm really dating myself here as far as my age but part of the reason is because I still can because I realized that film photography did not go away like I said, there were some Darker days when Fuji was discontinuing another film stock and then Kodak would get rid of this but it is not like that anymore, but it did look a little bit dark for a while there. So I figured, you know what, I really like this and I'm going to do it for as long as I can, because I realized that at some point I might not be able to do it anymore. But that point never came, at least up to now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Dave Mihaly:

again, it might seem like a strange thing to say, but I do it because I still can. what I started with. So again, I don't, I'm not one of these people that says, Oh, film photography is so much better than digital photography. I don't have that view at all. And again, I use my phone all the time for digital photography. I've got a Canon SL1, very basic, SLR, DSLR from about a dozen years ago. It's, pretty old, but that's the one I'm using to shoot again, senior portraits with, Again, for me, it's what I started with, so it's what I'm more comfortable with, so it's not a matter of, I don't think film is better, I started with it, I have more experience with it, and since it did remain available, guess, I didn't have to make the transition to digital. So again, I shoot digital when it makes sense to for me. But again, part of the reason I stuck with it is, I mentioned before, just that tactile experience of, loading the film. Choosing the film you want to load because again, that has dramatic effects on what your is going to be. And you can do that with digital obviously. But with digital, at least my experience has been, you make those choices mostly in post. Mostly post processing. Whereas in film, you kind of have to think a little bit and do it ahead of time. That's especially true with a lot of the point and shoots you see behind me because You don't set the ISO on those. You don't set anything on those. So you've got to look outside. Oh, it's pretty cloudy today. I think I'll, maybe I'll shoot, I'll load some 400 speed film. or, you know, it's bright and sunny. I'm gonna use a roll of Ektar 100 because I don't want a super high speed because I know it's going to overexpose the shots because with those, they're essentially glorified box cameras where you have, one shutter speed, And That's it. So there's no meter to actually assess the light situation. So, like doing things again, pre more than post. And again with film, that's what you get to do. You shoot, you pick your film ahead of time. You load it. Just, again, just feeling it. Developing the film. Touching the negatives. Negatives are, you do it right, if you develop it right. Wash it well. You've got, very archival. So, that's one thing that I'm old enough to have seen, digital files on my computer. I to have, like, a zip disk, which, you know, younger people don't know what that is anymore. CDs, DVDs, they're still around, but a lot of things live in the cloud now. And, at least with physical media, physical digital media. The jury's still out to think on how long that's gonna last, and that's less the case with physical negatives, because film photography has been around for a long time. And again, not saying it's better than digital, but I'm saying there's definitely more of a track record, just if you look at the number of years, there's no comparison. I mean, it's been around a lot longer, and you can still look at and hold and appreciate negatives from a hundred years ago, or more So for me, again, I like the archival permanence of it. the experience of it, the tactile sensation, and again, for me, it's not about film being better. It's what I'm more comfortable with, and it's what I have more experience with.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, like your example of you still can, right? You still listen to vinyl. You still do these things that, I'm sure you still read books rather than a Kindle. Maybe, you know, like there's a lot of examples like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The only flaw that I find with this, and I'm just playing devil's advocate here and I want to hear your perspective, is that with the vinyl, it's not that much more work to put it on a turntable, put down the needle, press play. When it comes to photography, especially your version of photography, where you're actually developing the film, you're scanning the film yourself before it's done. It's a lot more cumbersome. There's a lot more steps to it than that. So that part of the intrigue for you? Or is, is that also as cumbersome?

Dave Mihaly:

bring it up, the more I think about it, that's true because, there's not that instant gratification with film photography, whereas to your point, you know, you throw a record on there, you know, you pull the, put the needle on it and you're good to go. So you're right. There is more, It's a heavier lift to do film photography, but of that, again, I think the non instant gratification does appeal to me. The anticipation, back in the day, of course, you know, and, well, you can do this now, too, if you send your film off to a lab. might be a week or two until you get your film back and you don't know what you're going to get until you get you flip through your, disappointing set of prints. lot of cases, but it's like, Oh man, I really thought I nailed that shot. Oops, not so much. And again, developing a home is a little bit different because I had a little bit quicker turnaround because I could just develop it, pretty quickly, depending on what the film is and what the process is and then scan it right away, you know, after it dries for about two hours. scan it right away. So, part of me does like the fact that you don't always know what you're going to get. And for me, that is part of the fun. It goes back to what I was saying before, if I'm shooting, senior portraits, or if I, have a session book with a

Raymond Hatfield:

Sorry, that

Dave Mihaly:

lot of fun? No, that's not fun. So that's what I said. So digital, is superior in that sense, but you're right. Film photography, is not the easiest thing, but I think because of that, it does, maybe wrongly or rightly, at least for me, give me a little bit more sense of achievement and satisfaction that. I did this process. So again, I think maybe I appreciate the outcome a little bit more because I do know that work, the work that went into it, it was a little bit more involved than just pressing a button.

Raymond Hatfield:

That was a great explanation. I appreciate that. So then if the process of it is enjoyable, that's what brings you joy. Let me ask, because there are multiple steps to shooting film, obviously for you, there's choosing a camera, there's choosing a film, that film, there's different types of development, processes as well. There's the scanning and obviously, uh, editing it to be able to share it. What within film photography brings you the most, most joy,

Dave Mihaly:

It's kind of funny you ask that because the thing that brings me the most joy is something that you can do with digital as well, which is the physical, just the process of shooting the photographs. So, again, that's not terribly different from the, digital experience, except for

Raymond Hatfield:

I think it is. Yeah.

Dave Mihaly:

yeah, it is in the sense that, you can spray and pray with, digital and hope for the best and just take, you've got a bunch of backup shots if you want them. And with film, depending on the film stock that you're using, you've got 24 or 36 shots to get it right you're using 35 millimeter, which is primarily what I shoot because I like, some people say, oh, it takes me forever to get through a roll. Um, I don't have that problem typically. So I

Raymond Hatfield:

Same.

Dave Mihaly:

like medium format, if I've got the Pentax six, seven, I've got 10 shots on there and I can zip through that right away if I really want to. So 24 or 36, I probably shoot more 36 rolls than I do anything else. For me is the way to go. The process of it is different. I think some people, and I think I would include myself in this. maybe think a little bit more about the shot before I take it, because every time you take a shot with film, especially with medium format, certainly with large format, you can hear the cash register. I mean, it's, money. Every time you push the button, it's money. And that's less true with, digital. Because you're just storing it to a SD card, compact flash card, whatever. And your storage is only limited by the size of your card. And cards today are huge so you can take tons of photographs. So that part of the process is different. So again, the physical process of taking, going out and shooting the film, that's still my favorite. But yeah, to your point, it is a little bit different than digital, but you can still have fun shooting digital in the field too. My least favorite part of film photography is the editing, which I think I kind of alluded to before, because again, I'm not, I just don't have the patience to sit there and get every little speck of dust off my scan. So that's half the battle It's just when you scan them, try to get off as much dust as you can. I've got a rocket blower that I use. I've got a, like a cleaning cloth for my glasses that I sometimes use to clean off the scanner bed make sure there's not a bunch of dust on there.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, but it's hard. They all, it all seems to get attracted to those negatives, like, no matter how hard you try.

Dave Mihaly:

think I've ever had a role that I've scanned that had no dust on it. That's,

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Dave Mihaly:

if that happened, uh, in 55 years, that hasn't happened for me. So I'm still waiting.

Raymond Hatfield:

You're gonna have to get, multiple HEPA filters, air purifiers in your room, get the home one as well. Yeah, live in a bubble. Yeah, just, just to save you, some time from removing all those dust specks. I totally get it. So, one thing that I love about, you, and one thing that I love about your YouTube channel is that there's no, pompousness, in your film photography. You talked about the film purists before, And I think that we can all, anybody who has looked into starting to shoot film has found those photographers on YouTube who it's, you know, it's either an M6 or, an RB67 or something. Or, or nothing at all. And you have this approach that is just so fun and it's freeing and it's not over the top. There's not a lot of pressure in it. And, one, I just want to say that I really appreciate that. There's this space that I think is desperate for that. And I think that we've gone so long in this time of. In this transition from film to digital to like speed things up, speed up the shooting process, speed up the editing process, speed up all of these things that you're bringing this slow photography movement to the forefront, right? just spending time and getting outside. And that's where a lot of photographers that I know that are listeners today are starting to struggle. They're seeing all the photographers say, you gotta do this, you gotta hustle, you gotta have the best lenses, you gotta have the best gear, you gotta have all this, and they're losing that joy of photography and it's horrible. So for those listeners right now, I guess one, what would you say to them? And two, what would you prescribe to them to get them out and to get them having fun with photography again,

Dave Mihaly:

Yeah. for me, my approach, a lot, probably a lot of it goes back to my upbringing and how I grew up because I was raised in a lower middle class family. So growing up, we had a few cameras around, but again, if you look at the time frame, this would have been 1970s because I was born in 69. And, if you were, didn't have a lot of money back then, the cameras you had around the house were maybe if you were lucky at 126, right? that take the kind of the square pictures, but they were not anything fancy. And I think, that just carried over to my adulthood. It was like, you don't have to spend a lot of money to still enjoy photography. I'm involved with something called the frugal film project. And it was started by Sherry Christensen. And she is the host and founder of the embrace the grain podcast. And she started that really, I think with the intention of just showing people that film photography in particular, doesn't have to be. And there are not a lot of rules to the group, but the focus is this. You it's gone up, it's 75 now. But, that is to say this, for 75, you can buy plenty of camera for that amount. Are you going to buy that Leica M6? You are not, maybe a lens

Raymond Hatfield:

No, yeah

Dave Mihaly:

So, but you don't, to your point before, I am convinced that you don't need all that. And again, as I mentioned before, sometimes with humbler gear, it helps you focus on the more important things or more important things to me, at least, which is again, composition subject matter. And you can shoot what you like without the pressure. And that sounds maybe kind of funny to say, but when I'm shooting my Pentax 67 which again will not be for a while until the weather warms up. I almost feel, and it's, I guess it's self imposed, but I feel the self imposed pressure on myself is I've got 10 shots, this is a fancy camera, this is a fancy lens, I've got to get it right. And I don't have that pressure when I'm zipping through a disposable or reloadable disposable camera, point and shoot, 36 exposures, there's less pressure on me. So my advice to somebody that maybe wants to start in film photography, maybe for the first time, is Don't maybe start with a large format or even maybe medium format, but maybe start with 35mm because again, it's more forgiving in that you've got 36 shots. So you've got more chances to get something that might appeal to you. Final product, final image. And again, if it's a point and shoot, or maybe one of those Canon EOS cameras we mentioned before, you can ease into it and not be scared of it or intimidated of it. And I appreciate what you said before about my YouTube channel, because am not somebody that does or likes to see a lot of gatekeeping, any so called knowledge that I might have accrued for that two years, I like to try to pass on to, the viewers of my channel. And I think to do others otherwise is just snooty and kind of irresponsible having said that if you've got a lot of money and you have enough cash to get a Leica m6 or something related go for it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all It doesn't appeal to me because again, I don't have the funds to do that one number two Again rangefinder photography has never really been my thing. But some people love rangefinder photography I do have some experience with rangefinders. I had an old Yashica electro rangefinder for a while. I've had some of the Olympus rangefinders from the late 60s and early 70s and I got along pretty well with those. But again, once those, once your eyes dim and those range finder patches dim, it gets harder to pull that, to pull that focus off. So my suggestion is, have fun with it. I don't want to say lower your expectations, but maybe adjust your expectations to realize that not every shot has to be perfect. You want to express something and you can express something in a shot that's maybe not technically perfect. Maybe you didn't nail the focus. Maybe the exposure is a little bit off, but maybe you've captured a moment you can do that with the humblest of gears. If it's got a shutter, can do it. So don't, I think people should not get so hung up on taking the best technical picture. Take the best picture for you. And if that is just, if it, is your expression, if it's what you wanted to capture, whether the picture is technically perfect or not, I think you've got something there.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've shared this before it's like we can take a photo of a gray wall and it'll be technically perfect But that is gonna be the most boring photo Anybody will look at and another thing that I love about film photography, which is funny that the new photographers I think it takes a while for it to click. Everybody wants to shoot full frame and digital, which is just the equivalent of a 35 millimeter piece of film. So it's like you could shoot full frame for, 25 bucks right now. You know, if you were to go to a thrift store and just buy a roll of film as well, and that's a full frame camera right there, you got it. So, I love that. Yeah. Don't put as much pressure on yourself, to get it technically perfect. Um,

Dave Mihaly:

that, Raymond, to the point of, you know, you don't have to spend a million dollars on a camera. That is somewhat true of film, too. The knock against film photography here recently has been the prices on film has gone up and up. And that is not wrong. It's very true. But it depends on the film that you're shooting, too. So if somebody is looking for a more accessible, more inexpensive way, maybe to enter into film photography or dip their toes into it, my other suggestion would be try black and white. You don't have to shoot color film. You can shoot black and white, and to that point, it depends on the stock that you have. You don't have to shoot one of the more expensive black and white, uh, film, film stocks either. I shoot a lot of Fomapan, And if I really want to go extra cheap, I'll shoot Arista EDU, which is just basically a rebadged Fomapan without the DX coding. So if you don't care about the automatic DX code to set your film speed in your camera, maybe your camera doesn't even have that, you can save and get an inexpensive stock like that. I got, that's what I'm using actually for this year's version of the frugal film project. And I got each roll of black and white film, And these are 36 exposures for right around six bucks.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. That's half the price of what I'm paying, yeah.

Dave Mihaly:

so if you get a film like that you can do it and you look for deals, right? And I got it in bulk. So I got a nice deal on because I had to get 12 rolls of it So they kept me pretty good deal. Now the flip side of that is yeah, if you want to shoot a Kodak portrait 800, which is one of my favorite films. I love that film you're not going to get that for six bucks a roll Uh, it's

Raymond Hatfield:

Not even gold, Yeah Not even gold. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh.

Dave Mihaly:

to maybe Not be so tied to color photography. Maybe try black and white. And if you get into developing, same thing. The developing, have to be that hard. My take on it is this. If you can follow a recipe, can develop film at home. You need a little gear, right? But, uh, the barrier to entry is not, I don't think it's that high. You can get it like a daylight tank, like I have. I've got a few of them now. But, are running about 30 bucks. You can get those roughly, give or take, depending on how big the size of the tank is, because there's different sizes. I use a dark bag, which is gonna be, again, about another 30 bucks. And it just looks like a black, oversized, shirt that you just kind of stick your arms in. And you have the film in there, and you load the film into the tank so it doesn't get exposed to light. Once you've got those two things, the other necessities after that are get yourself some kind of developer. I use Kodak HC 110. Works great. then, you need a fixture, Right. So the three the three steps for film photography, it's, again, it's not super complex. You can make a more complex if you want to, depending on what developer you use. You can do a pre soak. I just use water to soak the film a little bit. You do your developing stops. You need a developer. stop part comes after that. I use water. Out of the tap, right? Doesn't cost you much of anything. And then you fix it and then you rinse it again. And you can use a couple drops of Flo Do Flo, something like that. But, if you want to go even more accessible, again, this speaks to what you were talking about before, maybe people getting into photography or film photography specifically. You can try a monobath, right? And I don't think a lot of people maybe know, or not as many people know about monobaths as you should. If you really want to

Raymond Hatfield:

I don't,

Dave Mihaly:

yeah, monobath is a great, this is how I started. Actually, personally, it is one bottle that does it. You use it for your developing. Your stop bath and the fixer in one. It's one bottle and it does all of that. Now it doesn't work for every film, right? And this is strictly black and white, You

Raymond Hatfield:

oh, okay,

Dave Mihaly:

can't develop color film in a monobath. Important point.

Raymond Hatfield:

Like, any black and white? um,

Dave Mihaly:

black and whites, not all.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. had Ilford, XP2. And I think XP2 is not

Dave Mihaly:

XP2 is C41 processed, so you have to treat that like, uh, color film.

Raymond Hatfield:

What am I thinking of then? Anyway, it doesn't matter. Dave, we are at the end of our time here. So before I let you go, can you share with our listeners where they can find you online, see more about you, what you're shooting and how to keep up with you.

Dave Mihaly:

Yeah, the best place to find me online is on YouTube. My channel is called The Old Camera Guy. And so if you search for The Old Camera Guy and see an old guy with a goatee and a hat, that would be me. So that's probably the best place. The other place to find me is, I am on Instagram under, oddly enough, The Old Camera Guy. And then the last place you could probably find me now is Blue Sky. That's kind of a recent thing for me. And so far, I think I like it. if not, just because my feed hasn't been overrun with bots and politics and strange things and ads. Yep. We'll see how that pans out. But so far I like it So YouTube and Instagram blue sky the old camera guy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Huge thank you to Dave for coming on the podcast. I've got one actionable tip that you can implement today to become a better photographer. And then I'll share with you how you can win that fun camera. Okay. So Dave, the action tip is this. Go on a photo walk. All you gotta do is grab your camera, put on some good shoes, go somewhere local, and set a timer for one hour and just walk around and explore. Don't feel this need to check your camera and, look at Instagram for inspiration, like, don't do any of that. Just be there and pay attention to what you pay attention to. I will warn you though, like, if it's your first time, this isn't exactly the most easy thing to do. It can feel a bit like, why would I take a picture of this? I don't know, a water tower, old red door frame, a creek running through town, stuff like that. But here's what this challenge is. This exercise is to ignore that voice that wants to critique before you've even created anything. Because you can't do both at the same time. You can't create and critique. You can't write and edit. You have to just create for creation's sake. So, again, this is more of an exercise for visualization than coming home with like 36 banger images. So that is the action item for today. Get out and just shoot with your camera. Alright, now let's go ahead and give away a camera. So one of the things that I love about film is the look, right? It's the aesthetic. And nothing says film more to me than the images that you get from like a disposable camera. They're cheap, they're not that great, but they're fun. Well, in the past few years, there's been a number of plastic reusable film cameras that have been made that will give you that signature look. that are reusable. And one such camera is the RITO Wide and Slim. Fun fact, this camera's actually been around since like the 90s. I think originally it was made by Vivitar? Anyway, it doesn't matter. This is a tried and true point and shoot camera. It's got a 21 millimeter lens, which is super wide on, in digital terms, full frame, it also has an F 11 lens. So it's best used, outdoors in the spring and summer when there's lots of light and fun adventures and bonus it's battery free too. So there's nothing to charge. There's nothing to, you don't need to pack any extra batteries. You just point and shoot. And I'm going to give away this camera to one of you. All you got to do is be a part of the beginner photography podcast community. Why would I give it to anybody else? So if you're not already part of the group, come join us by heading over to beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group. Again, that's beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group. And I'll be announcing a winner here in the coming weeks. Quick note, you do have to be a resident of the U S because shipping this thing internationally would cost more than the camera itself. And if you're listening in the future, I got some fun, quick ideas for giveaways, planned going forward. So again, come join us. That is it for today. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. So get out and do that. Talk soon.