The Beginner Photography Podcast

How to Market Your Photography from 5 Pro Photographers

• Raymond Hatfield

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#538 In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Mandy Wright, Esteban Gil, Nicole Begley, Rhea Whitney, and Michelle Harris down at Imaging USA about the art of marketing your photography business. You'll gain insights into building client relationships, valuing your work, and maintaining passion in your art.

THE BIG IDEAS 

  • Create Lasting Client Relationships: Investing in genuine connections with clients can drive word-of-mouth referrals, expanding your network organically.
  • Self-Awareness Enhances Success: Understanding what truly aligns with your values and interests can prevent burnout and guide your career path effectively.
  • Business Adaptability: Adapting your strategy to leverage free resources and tools like social media and online communities can accelerate your growth.
  • Finding Joy Amid Chaos: Enjoyment and playfulness in your work ensure sustained passion, even amidst the pressures of turning your hobby into a business.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Build Client Relationships: Attend events or dinners if invited to show your investment in clients' special occasions. Ensure clear, timely communication, keeping your interactions positive and professional.
  2. Develop Self-Awareness: Journal your thoughts about what feels right in your business to better align with your goals. Periodically reassess your service offerings to ensure satisfaction and fulfillment.
  3. Leverage Free Resources: Utilize social media platforms to showcase your work and engage with potential clients. Join online photography communities for knowledge sharing and mentorship opportunities.
  4. Embrace Creativity: Plan personal photography projects that excite and challenge your artistic boundaries. Explore new techniques or gear periodically to keep your skills dynamic and evolving.
  5. Focus on Genuine Networking: Connect with fellow photographers for support, inspiration, and potential collaborations. Attend workshops and conferences to learn from seasoned professionals and grow your circle.

RESOURCES:

Video: 12 Professional Photographers Share Best Marketing Advice for New Shooters - https://youtu.be/ySbMqA0k29w
Visit Mandy Wright's Website - https://www.mandywrightphotography.com/
Visit Esteban Gil's Website - https://www.egilphoto.com/
Visit Nicole Begley's Website - https://hairofthedogacademy.com/
Visit Rhea Whitney's Website - https://rheawhitney.com/
Visit Michelle Harris' Website - https://mharrisstudios.com/

Download your free copy of
46 Creative Photo Ideas to Get You Out of a Rut
at https://creativeimageideas.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Esteban Gil:

One of the biggest pieces of advice that I give to anybody is just surround yourself with people that want to see you succeed. You sort of become a product of your environment. People that not always pat patting you on the back, but just really just challenging to be better. Disagreeing with you. And just when you're starting your business, you need people like that. Not somebody that's going to put you down, but somebody that's really going to encourage you to keep going, because there's going to be a lot of days that you're going to wonder, am I doing the right thing? I've had endless of sleepless nights with my, when it comes to my business and just having a good group around you, I think really helps.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and today I'm chatting with five photographers at Imaging USA 2025 in Dallas, Texas, all to help you kickstart your photography business. This is probably one of my favorite episodes that I do each year. Every year I go down to Imaging USA, and honestly, it's just one of my favorite things to do. I think photography sometimes can feel, like, really lonely. Sometimes it can feel gatekeep y as well. It can also feel like, at times, like, you don't know who to turn to when things aren't working out. And everybody that you find It just feels like they want money out of you, right? But Imaging USA, there's none of that. There's none of that. It's one of the largest photography conferences in the world and you're surrounded by thousands of other photographers just like you, who want to make incredible images and make a living doing so. Everybody happy to help. There's no secrets and well, the conversations that you can have can really unlock some insights that I think are more valuable than gold, like seriously. Now since Imaging USA is put on by the Professional Photographers of America, I thought what better place to ask questions that will help you to get started marketing your business, pricing your work, and getting clients. So I was super excited for this. I was able to meet up with Gavin from cloud spot. This was my first time meeting face to face, which was awesome. And he let me turn his booth into like this little live podcast studio and special shout out to Logan on the cloud spot team for helping me stream all these interviews live on their cloud spot, Instagram account as well. That was super fun. So in today's interview, you're going to hear from wedding photographers, you're going to hear from portrait photographers, and even a pet photographer who will teach you how to cut through the marketing noise, who will teach you how to build lasting relationships, not only with clients, but with others in your industry as well. And turn your passion of photography into something that generates a profit for you and your family no matter what you shoot again from weddings to portraits and pets, too. And be sure to stick around to the end where I'm gonna share with you where you can hear from 12 Photographers all sharing their number one best marketing tip specifically for new photographers to help you get new clients. You don't want to miss it. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interviews. Hey, I am Raymond Hadfield from the Beginner Photography Podcast, and I am at the CloudSpot booth here at Imaging USA. And today I'm here with

Mandy Wright:

Mandy Wright

Esteban Gil:

and Espan

Raymond Hatfield:

Gil. All right. Well, today we are talking about all things marketing. We're talking about business. We're trying to help you book some clients, people. All right. So guys, I got some questions for you. Okay. It's all related to business. It's all related to marketing. And I just want to hear your own thoughts

Esteban Gil:

on

Raymond Hatfield:

what you would do. So, so the first question. I'm going to let you guys introduce yourselves a little bit more, tell us what you do, where we can find you all those good things.

Mandy Wright:

You go first.

Esteban Gil:

Okay, I'll go first. My name is Estevan Gill. I am a photographer and educator based in Guilford, Connecticut. I've been doing it for about 12 years now, been educating for about 7 ish years, and I love long walks at the beach, and I love traveling with my girlfriend, Mandy Wright, who I'm going to introduce right

Mandy Wright:

now. Hi, I'm Mandy Wright. I'm from Canada, originally. Mainly in Connecticut now. I've been shooting weddings for about 10 years. My background is actually in architecture, and that's how I found my way to photography. Wow. And I've been an educator for three years now.

Esteban Gil:

You're an educator?

Mandy Wright:

I am.

Esteban Gil:

That's impressive. I've

Mandy Wright:

taught you everything you know.

Esteban Gil:

That's not the Okay, I have

Raymond Hatfield:

to dive in a little bit more. How does architecture get you into photography?

Mandy Wright:

Uh, having an SLR was a requirement, um, in school. And we took photography courses on photographing spaces and buildings. And that's sort of how I found a love for, for photography. Okay. Which we

Esteban Gil:

love. Which we love. Whenever we're traveling, we just go out into the streets and we just photograph architecture. That's literally what we love doing on our days off. So,

Raymond Hatfield:

okay. So then, um, how did you choose the genre of shooting weddings over something like architecture, which seems like it'd be so easy to get into?

Mandy Wright:

Well, for me, when I decided to leave my program at school and start photography at that time, weddings was the only like lucrative like stream I saw like at that point. And it's just what you're introduced to what you're surrounded with. And I don't know why, but wedding photography was the only way I saw myself making money with photography at that point So that's kind of what I jumped into. Yeah, and at first I think I was back and forth as to whether or not I loved it, but I've grown to love it for sure. Yes,

Raymond Hatfield:

that makes sense Yeah,

Esteban Gil:

and I I guess it's sort of the same story where you just kind of fall into it whether like a couple people will ask you like hey, can you photograph my wedding? I see that you photograph

Raymond Hatfield:

These other

Esteban Gil:

things you have this camera. I always wanted to be a fashion photographer It's just something I always want to do which I do now, thankfully but yeah, you just kind of think like, what's, where's all the money in photography? And it's just, and I thought it was gonna be, yeah. And it was gonna be just a very quick thing. But you learn to love it because it's, it just brings in all aspects of photography into one day. And we love chaos. Like chaos is one of the things that we thrive on. So what better way than to spend a whole day with a bunch of chaotic people and just make art out of it? So, yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Chaos is one of the things that we thrive on. Okay. We love chaos. We love

Esteban Gil:

a mess. Yeah, that's gonna be

Raymond Hatfield:

your next tattoo. It sounds like that's good. That's not a credit card, right? Yeah.

Mandy Wright:

I love mess. Well, tell

Raymond Hatfield:

me, um, in your earliest days of shooting weddings, how did you guys get started in marketing? What did that look like for you?

Mandy Wright:

For me, it was first off taking some photos of my parents. to make an ad so that I could post for portraiture. And so on Kijiji, I don't know if you know what that is. It's like, it's like Craigslist. Yeah, but in Canada. So I put an ad up for, like portrait engagement, whatever type couples photography. I got a couple hits. Once I had a few photos of people together, I made a post for weddings and right away got a wedding booking and it kind of just snowballed from there. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's impressive. That's amazing. Yeah.

Mandy Wright:

Yeah. People took a risk on me for sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

Speaking of risk. I feel like you took a risk on yourself. Cause

Mandy Wright:

those photos, I don't know.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think we can all say that about our earliest photos. I know I can for sure. Not me, my photos have

Esteban Gil:

been perfect my entire career. Technically perfect

Raymond Hatfield:

every time. That's

Esteban Gil:

funny. Uh, I mean for me, I basically went from working at an auto parts store and a dead end job and being fired. To sitting there and thinking what I was going to do. And I could have either done the same thing because I got an offer for a competitive company or just trying out something that I wanted to have. I mean, I wanted to do it for my entire life. And the way that I started marketing myself is actually through Craigslist. So I, I just put an ad on Craigslist and I put, Hey, I want to photograph your wedding and I'll do it for free. So I, I photographed two weddings at 0 and I just needed something to populate my website. So when I got the bookings, I definitely understood that it's a big deal to be at somebody's most important day. And, and what I did You learn that

Raymond Hatfield:

real quick, don't ya? You absolutely do. Yeah, real quick. Yeah, yeah.

Esteban Gil:

So then I just, uh, I did a lot of research on weddings, and I think I did a pretty good job for my first two weddings. And then I started charging money after that. So once I have the, the, uh, the LLC, when you have your website, that's when you kind of start to go into the more paid jobs, so.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well then let me ask, uh, Craigslist is not what it once was in its heyday, so if you were to start over again today, what would you do different?

Mandy Wright:

I would probably surround myself with other photographers first or around the same time. I feel like I jumped into shooting weddings before I did second shooting or anything like that, so I went in Really without a ton of education on how to do it. I did.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. Yeah.

Mandy Wright:

Yeah. I started picking up second shooter jobs after I probably shot four weddings on my own.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Mandy Wright:

Um, so I think that maybe doing that in reverse would have been more beneficial for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mandy Wright:

So I'd say, um, getting connected with good mentors and good photographers and learning from other people.

Raymond Hatfield:

And that's good. That's good. What about you?

Esteban Gil:

I mean, as somebody that I'm always preaching that I'm very much an artist before a business owner. I do think that it is one of the parts of my business that I struggle with the most because I just want to go to weddings and create, I just want to do some cool stuff and go home. Yeah. Yeah. And, but as far as like, if I wanted, if I was starting all over, I would definitely recommend just really utilizing the tools that you're given as a photographer. Like you have tools like. Like Cloud Spy, you have tools that you can, anything to do with like a CRM or if you want to do something to any educational stuff, when it comes to the business end of things, um, you have Facebook groups, you have so many things with social media now that everything is there. It's just a matter of just going out and looking for it. And a lot of the time when you're starting your business, you sometimes you don't have money for the first couple of years. Like you're trying to make ends meet. And, and a lot of the time it's literally just a matter of just sitting on a computer. Um, and just really just researching a lot of educators and people that have the knowledge that I've done it before, because there's a lot of free knowledge out there, and I feel like it's just a matter of just jumping out there and looking for it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, follow up question. Okay, this isn't on the list, so you couldn't have prepared for this. Going off the cuff. There's a lot of different directions that you could go, right? Some photographers are like IPS only, some photographers are like, just high volume. How do you make sense of all the information that's out there?

Mandy Wright:

Oh boy, pressure's on. You got to do what feels right for you and your business. I've never done IPS. I don't think it's for me. So, and I, even when the market pushes you a certain direction, just doing what feels right for your business and how you want to run it.

Raymond Hatfield:

And you've been doing this for 10 plus years. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I

Mandy Wright:

think doing what feels right for you and don't, not letting everyone influence you is important.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's hard. There's so many voices. There are.

Esteban Gil:

It's tough to find the right voices, but sometimes it's a matter of just finding the voice that's right for you, like you said. And, I mean, I also don't do IPS. I think we have pretty successful businesses, and that's the thing. And that's the beauty of not only being an artist, but being a business owner, is that you can do things your own way, even though a whole industry might be telling you that there's a right way of doing things. And that's another thing that I always preach. Just do what feels best for you. Do what feels best for you and what is going to put food on the table and a roof over your head. And sometimes we feel the pressure of the industry telling us, Oh, you have to do this this way. And this is the right way of doing things. And a lot of the time it's like, no, it's I'm going to do what's right for me and my family. And yeah, it's just. Just just doing things your way. I think it's super important. Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

I think that self awareness is something that a lot of photographers lack because just cuz you're just getting started and like you don't know all the options that are out there and suddenly It's like a floodgate of everything that can be done but taking that time to have a little bit of self awareness maybe journal and figure out like does this feel right to me? Can really be helpful and it sounds like ridiculous, right? Like, do what's right for me, like, how is that a tip? But, uh, I mean, I can, I can attest to that as well, that that is really the answer sometimes. Uh, what is a piece of business advice that you wish that you had known when you had first got started?

Mandy Wright:

You want to go first on this one? Sure. Do you

Esteban Gil:

have Um, one of the biggest pieces of advice that I give to anybody is just surround yourself with people that want to see you succeed. You sort of become a product of your environment. So just really just surrounding yourself with people that, that challenge you. People that not always pat patting you on the back, but just really just challenging to be better. Disagreeing with you. And just when you're starting your business, you need people like that. Not somebody that's going to put you down, but somebody that's really going to encourage you to keep going, because there's going to be a lot of days that you're going to wonder, am I doing the right thing? Am I not doing the right thing? Like, should I quit? Should I just, I've, I've had endless of sleepless nights with my, when it comes to my business and just having a good group around you, I think really helps. Do

Raymond Hatfield:

they have to be other photographers?

Esteban Gil:

Absolutely not. Yeah,

Mandy Wright:

no. Uh,

Esteban Gil:

my mom. Yeah, shout out to mom over here. Nora. Love you.

Mandy Wright:

Um, I would say to make sure you value yourself. Know your worth at the beginning. How do you do

Raymond Hatfield:

that?

Mandy Wright:

That's tough. It's, I think it's always a work in progress. Actually. I think I tell myself that daily, especially when I entered the education realm of stuff, like I felt confident, as a photographer, but when you start getting into the education side, it's kind of like starting fresh and it's, it is a work in progress, I think, to remind yourself of that. But I think it goes a long way in all aspects of your business. If you value yourself. So

Raymond Hatfield:

that's that's that's sometimes like a mindset thing. Mm hmm. It is a hundred

Mandy Wright:

percent of mindset thing

Raymond Hatfield:

That's what you got to figure out if you can figure that out.

Mandy Wright:

Mm hmm. You're

Raymond Hatfield:

good. That's like 90 percent of it right there Yeah, okay. This is the fun one right for all the smart driven excited photographers out there. We're watching right now What is one thing that you want them to implement today in their photography business? That's gonna move the needle

Esteban Gil:

Oh, I guess in the theme of conference season, just putting yourself out there more where you're, you're going into a conference and networking with people coming up to people that you look up to, just really collaborating with, with people. And it doesn't have to be collaborating with brands, but just seeing people that, that you might see online at times we're walking around these conference floors and you could tell that a lot of the time they might be hesitant to come up to us and talk to us. But we, we love that stuff. And I feel like if at the beginning of my career, if I came up to the people that I looked up to and I told them, Hey, I love your work. Can I just ask you a couple of questions? And sometimes just hearing it from somebody that is not, I don't like to say the word better. They're just at a different time in their timeline. Sure. And it'll really help you, especially when it comes to like the art of it, I think. And even the business things of ends of thing where you, you might see somebody that might be more successful, but most people in the industry. I feel like they're willing to help each other out. And the mentality has changed a ton in the past couple of years. So yeah, just definitely the networking aspect of it is huge. So,

Mandy Wright:

um, I would say putting a lot of effort into client relationships and client experience. Um, I think nurturing relationships with the clients that you are getting can go a really long way in getting new ones. I know that is a big reason why I have the business I do. Um, so yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

In what ways are you, uh, networking with clients, like going deeper with them, not networking? Um,

Mandy Wright:

if you're invited, so I shoot a lot of destination weddings. Um, if I'm invited to activities or whatever gatherings outside of my, my work days, Um, I almost always attend them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah.

Mandy Wright:

Usually there's no expectation of work or anything like that. It's just like, hey, you're here, come join us for this family dinner or this, whatever might be going on, a rehearsal thing, and I go. Just to show face, to, to show that I'm invested in their wedding day, and make connections. And I've got a lot of business by just being around and, and showing that I'm part of the group.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's great. That was great. I definitely struggle with that for sure.

Mandy Wright:

Yeah. It's tough to get it, to get out there and be the sociable, like, and make those connections, but I think it's important. And I think continuing it, like, I'm not one to hang out with my clients or, you know, Some people do like go for coffee or like, I'm not like that. I just, if there's opportunity that comes to me from them, I will take them up on it. And then just making sure to communicate with them like efficiently and, and that type of thing. Even if you're just, if you don't want to get out there and actually meet them face to face, but making sure that like, at least your emails and phone calls and whatever else is happening in a happy, pleasant way and on time.

Esteban Gil:

I'd also like to apologize to all my clients that I have not emailed back. Cause I'm not very good at that. It's funny.

Raymond Hatfield:

so lastly here, how do you keep photography fun and exciting for you and not just a business, not just a job, but something fun?

Mandy Wright:

I would say that is, goes back to surrounding yourself with other photographers so that you can talk about the exciting things that you're doing, um, challenge each other. Like we talk about photography constantly and inspired by stuff around us and trying new things and new techniques. So I think just. It's just keeping the mindset that it can be a fun hobby, playful thing it just because you turned it into a business doesn't mean that the fun is taken away from it. So yeah, we're constantly like playing with new techniques and trying new things just for our own interest. Yeah.

Esteban Gil:

Yeah. I mean, basically the same. I love buying new gear. It doesn't have to be like thousands of dollars. Like sometimes we'll just go to a vintage camera store and buy just a 40 lens and just being inspired by like, limiting factor of whatever we're using. it, it really, like, I love doing that stuff. Um, but yeah, even just doing like bring up point and shoot. We, we got ourselves point and shoot cameras are like super old, for Christmas and we'll go out and we'll just do random street photography with them. So

Mandy Wright:

camera to go and shoot with for the day or a theme or something like that's what we're going to go shoot.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. Another follow up question here, so get ready. Uh, if somebody's watching right now, they want to go on a photo walk, what is one theme that they should take on their photo walk? What should they do? What should they shoot?

Mandy Wright:

Pick a color. Pick blue, pick yellow, and you can interpret that however you want, but go and shoot yellow.

Raymond Hatfield:

That sounds hard.

Esteban Gil:

Shoot yellow. The thing is that, when you're in a city, you can see, like, whether it's signs or whether it's buildings. I actually like to do the complete opposite, is what I recommend, is I recommend that people turn their back. Their screen until black and white so that they're more aware of contrast and and light and shadow and when you're shooting that way I feel like it helps with your composition because you aren't distracted by the color So we might go out and I'll just turn the back of my camera into just black and white JPEGs and when you put them into into your editing software, they're so raw. So it's still gonna be in color Yeah, but when you're actually shooting it'll be in black and white. So

Raymond Hatfield:

Beautiful. Well guys, thank you so much for all the business advice and tips and help today. Let listeners know where they can find you online.

Mandy Wright:

Mandy Ray photography, and you can find us both also at Switching Lenses and Steele Flynn Society. And

Esteban Gil:

you can find me on at Egil photo E G I L photo on Instagram and our Facebook group is Steele Flynn Society, Wedding Photography Education, hyphen S Von Gil, if you need the full name.

Raymond Hatfield:

Thank you guys so much.

Esteban Gil:

Thank you.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, I am, uh, Raymond Hatfield, uh, the Beginner Photography Podcast. We're here at the CloudSpot booth, and I'm here with Nicole Begley. Nicole, why don't you introduce yourself?

Nicole Begley:

Hello, everybody! I'm Nicole Begley, founder of Hair of the Dog Academy, and I also run Nicole Begley Photography in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Raymond Hatfield:

Beautiful. Well, Nicole, I got a few questions for you. All right,

Nicole Begley:

let's do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right, so most of the CloudSpot viewers today, they're, they're in business. They're trying to make money with their photography. I love it. So all the questions that I have for you today is geared around helping people. Photographers make more money, get more exposure. My

Nicole Begley:

favorite thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. You're going to do great. First, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself a little bit more and tell us what you shoot, maybe how long you've been doing it and where you're at.

Nicole Begley:

All right. Uh, I started my business in 2010. Which, gosh, seems like forever ago. but yet, yesterday at the same time. And I started as a family photographer that also really encouraged people to bring their pets because it was way more fun with dogs. And then 2015, I niched down to be all pet and eat mine specific. So, since then, I've been doing that. And, um, then I started Hair of the Dog Academy to help other people. Managed their pet photography business and master pet photography and about 2017.

Raymond Hatfield:

Why choose animals? Why not for people like I think that the average person is gonna think You know a Labrador isn't gonna pay me to photograph. Yeah, so so why stick with pet photography? What made you choose that?

Nicole Begley:

Really? It was just a passion of it. My career before that was I spent 13 years as a zoological animal trainer which, so I've loved animals forever. I never had a Barbie. I always had like stuffed animals and my little ponies. So yeah, and when I started in 2010, I think there were probably three pet photographers all in Seattle and, um, it really didn't seem like it could be something that was sustainable, but then that niche has just grown so much and there's still so much more room for it to grow, because if you still ask random people in the public, like. I'm a photographer. They're like, wait, what? Like it hasn't reached all the people yet. So as terms of marketing, it does add an interesting spin because over the years it's first letting people know that it exists and then why they want to do it. So there's like kind of a two step marketing, but that's getting easier now because it is getting more mainstream.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. Of course. That makes sense. When you first got started, what were some of the like earliest ways that you started marketing your business?

Nicole Begley:

This

Raymond Hatfield:

was such a new thing.

Nicole Begley:

Charitable marketing, hands down, silent auction donations, and then also partnering with rescues and charities around my area to offer special sessions to their supporters. And yeah, really just grew my business that way.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, if you were to start over again today,

Nicole Begley:

yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

would you do the exact exact

Nicole Begley:

same thing? Yes. Give us

Raymond Hatfield:

a tip on how to just get started Yeah,

Nicole Begley:

I would say look for Maybe some charities in your area, and it doesn't have to be rescues like if you photograph families like maybe there's different charities that are focused for kids or even like the ballet or health charities like every city has some nonprofits and some charities And like, I would reach out to them and see if you could donate to their gala. If there's anything you could help them with. And then once you start to make that connection, then you can say, Hey, I would love to do something great for your followers, where we can offer something special and it's a special deal. That's better than your public offer. And it would also be something that then gets back a little bit to the charity. And then you have all of a sudden, all this goodwill to all their followers, just like, oh, this person supports something that I believe in. Yeah. So they love you automatically. You're helping raise money for a good cause and you're getting great clients that, if you set it up correctly, which is really offering a regular session, I mean, there's so many different ways to do it. My favorite way is to offer a regular session with a little bonus. Like they get extra product credit, they get a bigger size artwork, they get something special. and then you're doing the same education that you would do for a normal session. So you're getting. Your average sale clients coming in for this so it doesn't have to be like low end mini sessions. It can be real sessions

Raymond Hatfield:

That is great. So it sounds to me like making connections with people is the key to working with pets Yeah, I

Nicole Begley:

think that's pretty much the key for all of our marketing spoiler alert guys Spoiler.

Raymond Hatfield:

What's a pricing tip that you wish that you knew earlier in your photography journey?

Nicole Begley:

Oh, pricing, pricing. I could go on for this. I could go on for pricing for a long time. Definitely one thing is making sure that you have some sort of bonus like To decide what you want people to do, like how much do you want to sell? Like what's your average sale? What do you want them to buy? Like have a path for what you want them to do and then have some sort of bonus or, like some sort of carrot you're dangling that when they do that, they're getting something special. Like, it could be extra digital files, it could be extra images in their album, it could be a bigger size artwork, like, figure out kind of what they want, and then you can give them that. Like, an easy way could be, if you do an album and an artwork, you get all the digital files that I'm already editing anyway, you know, so. Easy things like that in and that shifts the buyer psychology, especially if you're a la carte right because photography is already a splurge Yes, and then they're like, okay. I want these five things, but I'm gonna be responsible and I'll get three Yeah, you know they have to like rationalize it But then you're like, Oh, but when you do this, you get this. And they're like, Oh, well, I'd be silly not to do that. So it gives them permission to spend and get what they want. So it's, it's not about like trying to like get one over on them or like sell something they don't need. It's just giving them a path where they're their brain to say, Oh, that's just a great deal. It's an easy, yes. And I want this.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So this isn't a question on here, but

Nicole Begley:

talk to

Raymond Hatfield:

me a little bit about that mindset, because I've talked to a lot of photographers today. Yeah. Who are, I don't think that they, they have a very hard time getting over that. They think that it feels icky. It feels gross for sales. What would you say to them? My

Nicole Begley:

gosh, I love this. So I think it's funny. There's so many people that I've worked with that. Have been in sales for like a widget of some kind, you know, that's that they're selling and they're like, I'm good It's great at that. I could sell that all day long, but then it's like oh now I'm gonna sell my artwork That's like such a personal thing and and they're just like I can't like it becomes totally different So selling our own artwork is harder just because there's so much. Am I good enough? Yes, you are. Um, like if people saw your work and they hired you, they want your work, you know, like, so yeah, so you're like, are you good enough? And then there's so many society things that, you know, that work has to be hard. We shouldn't enjoy what we do. If we enjoy what we do, we don't deserve to get paid for it. And, you know, So many things. So what I encourage people to do is to think about if they've ever had photography done and like, how much do they treasure that those photographs?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Nicole Begley:

Or like, if you've been in this for a while, like, I know I've had people that I photographed, uh, over a decade ago, send m and just telling me like dogs passed a couple of y was even like we had to t down for a little bit jus It's back up now and I can't even imagine not having this like it is worth so much more So when you can dig into that and realize that you're offering a service that is helpful for people You're not forcing anyone to purchase this that it's literally our job the other one. I like to it's our job It's not to get people to buy it Our job is to let people know what we offer and let them make a decision.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a big difference.

Nicole Begley:

Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

that's a big difference. Yeah, that's great. That's great. What is the marketing tactic that's working for you today? Or are you just strictly charity options?

Nicole Begley:

Mainly that and word of mouth and just personal connections.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.

Nicole Begley:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

if there's a smart, driven, hungry photographer watching right now, you could tell them one actionable thing they can do in their photography business today that's going to make a difference. What would that be?

Nicole Begley:

Messy action. Totally. Like, do not wait for it to be perfect, do not wait to get all the answers, just frickin try it. Oh, but that's so hard, Nicole. I know, but just do it! Just do it! Like, right now, just do it, send the email, do the marketing, like, just do it, and test it, and see, and just, just do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

What's the worst thing that could happen? Yeah! The worst

Nicole Begley:

that happens is, nothing happens, and then you look at it, and, and, and, and, I want to talk about this real quick too, because a lot of people, maybe they do something and they don't get the result they want, right? And so then they're just like, oh, okay, that didn't work. I'm never going to try again. So, okay, if it's something that you're like, I did this, it didn't work, and I hated every second of it, okay, maybe let's find something else. So, can you ask yourself, what could be fun for marketing? Like, even if you're not totally into like, I want to do all of this, but you're like, this is interesting. Okay, then try that. And if it doesn't work, but you're like, kind of interested in it. Look at it and be like, all right, how can I change it? How can I test it? And kind of use that, ask ourselves better questions. So asking ourselves, like, how could this be fun? What do I like to do? Do I like to write? Do I like to talk to people? Do you know, just, and figure out kind of what your marketing could be around that.

Raymond Hatfield:

I have a similar take on that, which is the Tim Ferriss approach, which is asking yourself, what would this look like if it were easy? Oh,

Nicole Begley:

uh huh.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Like, what would this look like if it were fun? Yeah. Yeah. Could work as well. Yeah. Well,

Nicole Begley:

and we're always over complicating it. So yeah, like the like, just, just make it easy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Always over complicating it. My gosh. If you could just be in my brain for a moment. so that leads us into this next question, which is my last question. How do you keep photography fun and exciting?

Nicole Begley:

Oh, personal project. making myself do them every once in a while. Yeah, we all, you know, it's like, I would like to do that. I'm just busy. And you know, and it goes and all of a sudden you're like, Oh, it should really do that. So once you actually get out and do it, all of a sudden I'm just like, Oh, I do still love this.

Raymond Hatfield:

What's a personal project that you're working

Nicole Begley:

on now? Um, I have a selfie dog series.

Raymond Hatfield:

A selfie dog? Yeah, yeah. The dogs are taking selfies? The dogs are taking selfies. With their paws?

Nicole Begley:

Well, it's what it looks like. But yes. Yes. I can assure you, they're not actually pressing the camera. I still have the copyright. It's not like the monkey copyright situation back in the day. But yeah, just fun stuff like that or just getting out and shooting for yourself sometimes. Like, go get a model and just, like, without any sort of, pressure of having to create something that your client hired you for, sometimes just go out and do something you want to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Beautiful. Well, Nicole, everybody here is watching right now. They want to know where can they find you online?

Nicole Begley:

Absolutely. I'm at hair of the dog academy. com freedom focused formula. com. And my Instagram's at Nicole Bagley official.

Raymond Hatfield:

It's been fun.

Nicole Begley:

Yeah. Thanks. Of course.

Raymond Hatfield:

So I am a Raymond Hatfield. I'm the host of the beginner photography podcast. And today we have,

Rhea Whitney:

I'm Ray Whitney. I am a wedding and portrait photographer and a business coach for photographers here at the cloud spot booth. Amazon 20, 25.

Raymond Hatfield:

Isn't this like a beautiful looking booth?

Rhea Whitney:

It's really nice. I was like, is there a backlit? It's just, it's really nice. Nobody else is doing that. Yeah. They're really, they're, they're on to something here. I like it. I like it a lot.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, Ray, I thought that, uh, we might have some fun today and I would ask you some business related questions for photographers. Are you ready for this? I'm ready. I'm so ready. All right. I know this is, uh, this is like your gig, right? You love the business side of it. I do. And, uh, if anybody's got knowledge that's going to help out, it's going to be you. So, uh, let's go ahead. And going to have you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about your business.

Rhea Whitney:

Yes. Okay. So I am Ray Whitney. I am a wedding and portrait photographer based in Houston, Texas. So crazy. This is my 10th season shooting weddings. I'm like, Really? Oh, gee, that's how I feel. Um, but I'm also a business coach to photographers, and I help them become more confident CEOs and to make really great money using their gifts and talents.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is huge. Yeah,

Rhea Whitney:

it's life changing. Honestly,

Raymond Hatfield:

I love how you said using their gifts and talent because I think so many photographers get into photography because they love creating images. It's like the business side that is always so hard.

Rhea Whitney:

Yes, yes, yes, it is. It's hard. It could be A little overwhelming and challenging, but to me, I feel like once you really master your style, like what you like to shoot and how you like to shoot. That next thing you have to do is master that business,

Raymond Hatfield:

right? You

Rhea Whitney:

know what I mean? Like, it's so important.

Raymond Hatfield:

So let's ask a few business related questions. I guess the first one is actually, why did you choose weddings? Like what? That's wedding photography.

Rhea Whitney:

You know, so when I first like was becoming a photographer, I shot a little bit of everything and, babies, birthday parties, milestones, the club, you name it. I shot it. And I'll never forget the first time that I got to shoot a couple and they were newly engaged. And it just was just this energy, this excitement, love. There were not a baby so they could actually do the things that I wanted them to do. And it just felt really, really good. And so, I think that like, I want to say weddings kind of found me in a way, but I really loved love. I love love. And then I love working with people in that exciting chapter season of their lives. Weddings are super fast paced and I like to believe that I have like that brain, for the different scenarios, like problem solving on site quickly, you know, and so it's just been something that's just really quick for me and it's been really fun. Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah, I think that's one of the hardest parts at a wedding is that there's so many different things to shoot Yeah, did you really have to switch gears? Yes,

Rhea Whitney:

it's

Raymond Hatfield:

really

Rhea Whitney:

fast. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, let's talk about some of your earliest days Can you tell me how did you go about marketing to find some of your first clients?

Rhea Whitney:

Oh, man, so earlier days like I think this was when Instagram was fairly new and it was very a photo very like a photo app

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Rhea Whitney:

it's changed a lot Um But so I just was like cranking out work on there. And also I would work with like a lot of my friends from college. I was fairly new out of college. And so I had, girlfriends and like sorority sisters that were like becoming like influencers and all of that. So I was just like working with them and having them tag me. Hey, Terry,

Raymond Hatfield:

we're

Rhea Whitney:

going to have to get her on the mic. I know. No big deal. No big deal. No pressure, no pressure at all. Right. Like whatever. So yeah, I think it was just like collaborating with other people, posting the work on Instagram, just being excited and just telling like people a lot, like, Hey, this is what I do, kind of offering services for free to really get that style down pat, you know? So yeah, that's kind of how, and it just really snowballed into so much more, and just picked up and I learned more about marketing and just like all the things, but it was really just me. Like working with what I got right at the fingertips and just offering my services and just letting the world know that

Raymond Hatfield:

you were

Rhea Whitney:

out there. Yes. Okay.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Let me ask if you had to start over, would you do anything different to get your name out there? That's such a good question.

Rhea Whitney:

If I had to start over, I probably would definitely do a lot more SEO out the gate.

Raymond Hatfield:

Really? Yeah.

Rhea Whitney:

I would do a lot more SEO just with like, setting up my website and doing like keyword focused blogs and stuff just so because that's like a to me. That's the long game So I would do that. I then would also probably really narrow my niche like I wouldn't try to just be

Raymond Hatfield:

a wedding photographer

Rhea Whitney:

Oh but like for who like get really really really specific because then you can really talk to them like And really just like hone them in and let them know that you're the person for them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Rhea Whitney:

What else would I do? I probably would I still will collaborate with a lot of people like offer like some maybe pro bono shoes or discounted shoes. That way that I can like build up my portfolio in a way that I wanted it to look. I think that's really important. And then use that those images and that content to then like attract more of what I'm trying to do. So that would be my approach,

Raymond Hatfield:

right? There's a hungry

Rhea Whitney:

for it

Raymond Hatfield:

again, be hungry for it. I love it. I love it. All

Rhea Whitney:

right.

Raymond Hatfield:

You want to share with us, maybe a pricing tip that you wish that you knew earlier in your journey. So many new photographers struggle with price my stuff. I've never been in business before. Yes. Yes. What would you do?

Rhea Whitney:

I think one of the most, the first things I would do is really know my cost of doing business, how much it costs you each month to run the business. I think that that's so important and surprisingly people don't know. Like, I don't know that, you know, photographers don't want to be in the numbers. I don't want to get into the data, but I would know that. And then I would have an idea of like what I wanted to make, maybe 2000, 3000, 4000, whatever that number is. Yeah. And, um, so I think I would let those that like cost of doing business and how much I want to take home really drive my rates and not be willing to do some pro bono discount things as long as it fits what I wanted to curate in my style. But then just like go after the audience that you really want to go after. I think sometimes we're trying to be for everybody, but you're really not for everybody. You know what I mean? Like it's a specific type of person you really want to work with. So that's what I would, that's how I would go, like pricing in particular.

Raymond Hatfield:

I always love the example of like McDonald's is one of like the biggest restaurants in the world. Yes. I don't want to go to McDonald's. You know what I mean? Like, they don't care about me. And they do not care. And that's great. They know exactly who they want to attract. Yes. Yeah. And they're doing just fine. And they're doing just fine. Yeah. Just like Roof Crisp, Mastro's, you name it. It

Rhea Whitney:

doesn't matter. Like it's an audience for like everybody. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Next question is what is one piece of business advice that you wish that you could share with the world?

Rhea Whitney:

Oh man. I think that one piece of business advice I would share with the world is that sometimes it looks a lot easier than it actually is, right? You're going to lose steam and gas and motivation. But I think it's just important to know that you like, just keep going. Like if it's in your heart, if it's a vision that you have, like just to keep going. What else would I say? Business advice, be legit, you know, legitimize your business, have an LLC. Get business bank accounts. Keep tracking, you know, tracks of your funds, like things separate, like legitimize it, stop running the business by the seat of your pants because it's really not going to help you as you grow, especially if you want to grow, right? So build something that can support your growth. From the moment you start. That's what I would say.

Raymond Hatfield:

Is that coming from experience? Did you not do that in the beginning?

Rhea Whitney:

No, I did do that. It's coming from experience because I'm a business coach and I work with a lot of photographers and yeah, who haven't done it, you know? And so we have to rewire, we have to rework everything. And it's just a whole new way to think about business when you are just not really doing it for real. You know, it's like a, it's like a little thing that you want to do, but. That's just not how it goes. You know what I mean? A lot of us have big dreams, but we're not really handling our business as if you are going after that dream, and it's going to become a reality. You know what I mean? So that's what I would suggest.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, let me ask you a follow up question. Yeah. Being a business coach, working with a lot of photographers, what are some other common mistakes that you see and you think, we gotta fix this?

Rhea Whitney:

Oh, man. Inconsistency in marketing. Right? Right?

Raymond Hatfield:

Wait, wait, how so? Let's expand on that a little bit.

Rhea Whitney:

Yeah, like just not being consistent, not showing up, not promoting enough, maybe, you know, putting something out there one or two times and then feeling like a failure because it didn't sell out how you wanted it to.

Raymond Hatfield:

Been there.

Rhea Whitney:

Yeah, me too. Pricing, right? Being really, really, really scared to price their services how they should. Yeah. pricing from their pocket. From what they believe that they would afford.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, that's a huge thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Rhea Whitney:

For the longest time I wasn't even my ideal. I was not my ideal audience, you know what I mean? Like there's nothing wrong with that There's nothing wrong with that. I've grown to be that person, you know, but for the longest time I just wasn't so pricing is such a big deal and also honestly mindset the mindset of a business owner of a ceo emotional resilience Bye It takes these things because you're going to hear no, you're going to get ghosted, you're going to have challenging moments, but then you still have to say, I'm going to get up, I'm going to keep going tomorrow's a new day. Right. Tomorrow is the day I can get that sale that I've been waiting for. I really booked that client that I really want, you know, so those things are really important.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. It's about as motivational as it gets right there. Oh my gosh. I want to get out there and start marketing. It's

Rhea Whitney:

time, you know, it's time. I love it. I love it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Lastly,

Rhea Whitney:

okay,

Raymond Hatfield:

how do you keep photography fun and exciting and not just a job?

Rhea Whitney:

Oh, so that's such a good question. I think you keep it fun and exciting by working with the people that you really really want to work with right? Like I believe that my ideal client we share very similar core values and beliefs, you know what I mean? And they really value what I do they care about me as a person and not just like, you know, the help or whatever

Raymond Hatfield:

You

Rhea Whitney:

And then also like doing some creative projects in there, right? Like I go back to doing some pro bono shoots or reaching out to some people that might be really aligned from a visual standpoint with what you're trying to create and get creative, go to style shoots. That's another really good one to find some fun. Um, and then lastly, I would say community, man, surround yourself with other photographers that are doing the work. That are showing up in hard moments and it just helps to bring life back to what you're doing and have that like personal touch with people.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I will say one of the worst weddings I ever went to the mother of the groom once asked me to go out and like fix the aisle runner and just because it was like really windy. Like that was your job. But I was like, I tried to be polite, you know, and I was like, um, I don't think that that's within my pay grade, you know, something like that. You try to just brush it off. And yeah, but that feeling, yeah,

Rhea Whitney:

it just doesn't feel good. It doesn't. One time I had

Raymond Hatfield:

the hired helper.

Rhea Whitney:

Yeah. The hired help. One time this lady was like, um, can you hold my drink? I'm going to take a picture with. On their phone, like on their, I was like, you want me to hold the drink so you can take a picture. I have all these cameras on me, you know, It's just moments like that, you know, so really like aligning with the core values so big. It's so big

Raymond Hatfield:

Well ray, where can we find you online?

Rhea Whitney:

Yes. So ray whitney is my instagram handle raywhitney. com is the website If you're listening and you're like resonating, please DM me. I love to have a little chat I'll send you a voice note back or something. So find me on instagram

Raymond Hatfield:

goes back to the whole community. I'm big on community.

Rhea Whitney:

I am.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, thank you.

Rhea Whitney:

Thank you for having me. This is fun. And thank you for the cloud spot.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Hey, I am Raymond Hatfield from the beginner photography podcast. And today I am here with

Michelle Harris:

Michelle Harris.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right. And we are here at the cloud spot booth here at imaging USA 2025. And today I have some questions that I'm going to be asking Michelle all about marketing and business. to help you photographers get more clients. How does that sound?

Michelle Harris:

It sounds great. All

Raymond Hatfield:

right. Well, Michelle, why don't you give us a little bit more of an introduction? Tell us who you are, what you shoot and where you're based.

Michelle Harris:

So I am Michelle Harris. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. I just relocated from the DMV area. I shoot weddings primarily, and I am also a Sigma ambassador. So I travel for them and love everything about it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do all the things. Okay. Thanks. Tell me what got you into photography in the first place.

Michelle Harris:

So, I wanted a side hustle. And, um, I was an insurance agent. And so I was like, oh, it would be cool if I take pictures of kids on the side. I really thought I was gonna be a newborn photographer and I went and I bought like everything that to do that

Raymond Hatfield:

all the things and

Michelle Harris:

I hated it So I sold everything and my brother was like, hey do you want to do my wedding in the backyard? And I was like sure I'll do that and I was like, this is it

Raymond Hatfield:

really

Michelle Harris:

and that was it I never like look back.

Raymond Hatfield:

What was it about it?

Michelle Harris:

I just I loved the love. I loved it like the movement It was like my family catching everybody doing it smiling, people crying, like I loved all of them. I'm like, no one's doing any of that during newborn sessions. So

Raymond Hatfield:

how did, uh, how did you get started in marketing for your wedding photography business?

Michelle Harris:

So at that time, that was 2015. And back then I was using a thing called thumbtack.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michelle Harris:

I would never recommend that in 2025. No shame.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michelle Harris:

Ever. But back then, um, it was way cheaper to like send quotes to people and I, I was sending them for like 10. Yeah. Like the opportunity to possibly book a wedding for like 10. So it worked out great. Cause I was also charging like a thousand dollars for weddings at the time. So I was filling in my weekends with like thousand dollar weddings and I was so happy Cause I already had my And then at the end of the year, I was like, well, I made 50, 000 doing photography and I make 40 at this insurance company. I'm like, if I put a little bit more effort in, I think I would be much happier not working here.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I also started off using Thumbtack as well around 2015 and found it.\ Amazing. Like it was a huge help in getting the business going. But, uh, as you were saying today, you wouldn't recommend it. No. So what would you recommend for those photographers who are watching right now getting started in wedding photography to start their business, start marketing their business?

Michelle Harris:

I always think that the best thing to do is to connect with humans. So yes, Facebook ads and this and that, but I think you should reach out to wedding planners and get a connection with them because they are ultimately like the key to getting into wedding photography really because if they recommend to their clients. Hey, these are the people that I recommend. They're pretty much gonna look on that list Okay, like even if they don't end up booking like they're gonna look first So that's the best way because people hire them because they trust them. They're like, okay, I trust this person to book Help me build my wedding. So they're going to go in the direction that they kind of pushed them into.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. How as a new photographer, can you give value to wedding planners so that they will start to recommend you?

Michelle Harris:

I personally always ask them if I can take them to lunch. When I do that, I don't just say, Oh, can I take you to lunch? And then start talking about how we can collaborate or any of that type of stuff. I literally just take them to lunch and I'm like, Hey, I want to learn all about you and I want to know like what got you into planning weddings and do you have kids? And like, I just ask these questions. They ask them back obviously. And then we just have a friendship, like an actual conversation. And then you just kind of stay on top of their mind by, you know, responding to them and their stories and things like that on social media and just be a regular human with them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Love it. And then it

Michelle Harris:

can come later. Like after you can be like, Oh, by the way, would you be interested in doing a style tutor? Something like that, where they can collaborate.

Raymond Hatfield:

Love it. Okay, good. What do you wish that you knew about pricing when you first got started?

Michelle Harris:

Nothing. And that's because I think I did good. My first year, like, starting at a thousand. Right now, I always recommend that people wait until they feel comfortable charging at least fifteen hundred to charge. But after that, I had a mentoring session with Ben Hartley. And that was 10 years ago. And he was like, look, we're going to start at 2, 500 now and help me with my pricing and just do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

And that

Michelle Harris:

was it. So I don't know if I got lucky, but I recommend that you get with someone who has done this and knows what they're doing to help you so that you're not guessing. Don't go to people's websites saying, well, what are they charging? What are they charging? And thinking, you know, ask somebody that you trust to help.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do

Michelle Harris:

you

Raymond Hatfield:

think that, um, I guess what I'm trying to get at is how do we know that we're ready to be 1, 500, you know? So, I guess, do you think that photographers are ready to start charging that sooner than what they think that they are?

Michelle Harris:

No, I think that they are charging less really soon. Like, I see a lot of people be like, oh, I'll shoot a wedding for 800. Sure. And doing this and doing that, and then be upset. That they're not booking. It's like nobody really want like you think they want it to be super super cheap They don't they don't want it that cheap. They'd rather you be fifteen hundred dollars and have a sale That's still better because they know the value of what they're getting even if they paid less

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a price angering tip right there. That is a good one. I mean,

Michelle Harris:

yeah. It's always good. Everybody likes a sale.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is true. I love a good sale. What is one marketing tactic that's working for you today?

Michelle Harris:

The wedding planners.

Raymond Hatfield:

The wedding planners. Going back to that. Yeah,

Michelle Harris:

man. I just feel like they're the key to all the things. Because they know everyone. It's their job to know everyone, to know who to connect with, who like, oh I got this for, so it would be great to do this and do that, because they have to be in contact with all these people. Yeah. So if, even if it's not a wedding, there may be another event or something, and I'm like, oh, you know, this photographer would be perfect for this.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michelle Harris:

It just is the best way. Yeah. I personally think.

Raymond Hatfield:

I agree. That, uh, what is it, like, uh, not shared trust, but it's like It's an implied trust, right? When a wedding planner tells a couple, this is the photographer for you, they're gonna take that advice. So, if you can build those connections, I mean, why would you not do that? Why would you not? I mean, another thing

Michelle Harris:

that they can offer wedding planners is like headshots and branding images for free. I'm not saying offer to charge them. But that way, if they do post these images of themselves doing things, whatever it is, they're gonna tag you. And when a couple, they book a wedding planner, they're going to look at their feed and all the things they're doing, so they're like, oh, this person, she trusted this person to take her picture, so obviously, this is a good idea.

Raymond Hatfield:

Reputable photographer. Yeah, without

Michelle Harris:

having to do anything. She could have never shot a wedding with the planner, but if they post their headshot with it,

Raymond Hatfield:

it's implied trust. And they don't

Michelle Harris:

know it was for free. They have no idea. Yes. Nobody knows.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. If you could share one piece of business advice with the world, what would that be?

Michelle Harris:

One piece of business advice? That's very broad, dude. It is,

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah. I mean, you could take it wherever you want to.

Michelle Harris:

Business advice. want to say, to make sure that you really connect with people, that you, make sure that you connect with the right people because I feel like if you connect with the wrong people and you're in the wrong circle and this is like general business, just being around people who have negative mindsets about anything and try to tell you, Oh, you shouldn't charge so much. Oh, you know, you don't do this. Don't do that. And you don't even know that you think they're your friends and the right people to be around, but if they start to bring you down Remove yourself.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh yeah.

Michelle Harris:

And that's across the

Raymond Hatfield:

board business. You are the culmination of the five people who you spend most of your time with, right? Just like that.

Michelle Harris:

And it happens quick. You don't even notice.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Yeah. Cause you're just so a part of that community. Find the right community. Okay. If smart driven and hungry photographer is watching right now, what is one actionable tip that they can implement into their business today that's going to move the needle?

Michelle Harris:

Actionable tip. I would say, and this is like, is it wedding photographers?

Raymond Hatfield:

Just, yeah, however you want to answer it, yeah. Okay, I'm going to do wedding photographers. Yeah, we'll do wedding photographers. Because if

Michelle Harris:

somebody's like really hungry and they're like, I really want to do this, I always think that the first step is to offer someone that you admire or, can you help me? Yeah, I mean somebody you admire that you would want to work with to do like behind the scenes for them at a wedding. Okay. If not, like maybe even third shooting as well because what happens is like you get to be in the environment that you're wanting to be in without any real responsibilities. So you can just have yourself on and you like, you'll see things happen. You'll see how they will fix the problem or work around it. Like that is the way that you are fully immersed in the field that you're trying to be in.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michelle Harris:

Without all of the responsibilities and having to freak out before you realize how this goes. I also just think that it's good in general for a wedding photographer. Like people who want to get into wedding photography, like they know photography, but they're like, oh, I want to go make sure, do that birth. Yeah. Make sure that you can handle the stress of the wedding. This is not for everybody. It's true. So that's my advice.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's good. And I like how you said, you know, you're, you're continuing to, you're starting to build that community that you want to be around.

Michelle Harris:

Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

You know, of those other photographers, and, it's always nice to know other people in your industry. Yeah, and everybody

Michelle Harris:

needs behind the scenes. Yes. Everybody.

Raymond Hatfield:

Uh, yes, that is very true, that is very true. Yeah, so no one's gonna

Michelle Harris:

be like, oh, no, I don't want you to come for free and give me behind the scenes. Who would say that?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So, if you're watching right now, find a photographer local to you, uh, reach out and offer your services right away. You know, what does it take? A day to volunteer your time, and now you're gonna build those connections, you're gonna build a, uh, community. And you're also going to build your portfolio a little bit, right?

Michelle Harris:

You could, yeah. I mean, everybody has different, you know, rules and regulations for how they do things. Sure, sure, yeah. But you could.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a good tip. I never would have thought about that. That's good. Yeah. Well, Michelle, can you tell us, where we can find you online, where we can get more of these great business tips of yours?

Michelle Harris:

So I have two places. Uh, my Instagram, that's mharris underscore studios. Always there. But also on Facebook, I have a community called M. Harris Hustlers. About 1, 900 photographers in there, posts in there, all of the different things. Any questions you have, you can do that. And then I have a community within that. You'll find out all the things that we do inside.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. Well, Michelle, thank you so much. Thanks. You know, lately I've been sharing one actionable tip from interviews, that you can implement right away so that you don't waste this opportunity from these world class photographers sharing their best insights. But today is a little bit different, you know, with multiple perspectives. So, do this, do something. I know you heard something today that stood out to you. I know you did. Whether it was connecting with a wedding planner, or offering to shoot behind the scenes photos for another photographer, or creating themes for photo walks. Maybe it was evaluating your pricing. You know, I don't know. Whatever it was, do something. Do something that is gonna take you in that direction. Reach out to somebody. Start a conversation. Open up your books and evaluate what your time is actually worth. But do something and take action. Also, at the beginning of the episode, I shared that I have something special where I don't know, maybe 12 photographers shared their best marketing tips specifically for beginner photographers like yourself to help you start booking clients. Now, one of the best parts of just walking around imaging is that you never know who you're going to run into. It's so much fun. It could be your favorite educator. It could be your next favorite photographer, you know, whatever. So when I would run into someone I would ask them to answer one marketing question again that would help you beginner photographers to start growing your photography business. So to find that video, it is a video, right? Just head over to YouTube and simply search beginner photography podcast, best marketing advice for beginners. And it'll pop right up. It's not a long video, but the insights these photographers share is amazing. And in fact, I got an answer out of Vanessa joy that I was not expecting. I was like, whoa, but honestly it is. It's genius. So again, just head over to YouTube and search beginner photography podcast, best marketing advice for beginners and hear it for yourself. That is it for today. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.