The Beginner Photography Podcast

Overcome Self Doubt and Improve your Photo Skills Karen Doughman

• Raymond Hatfield

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#529 In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Karen Doughman, a middle school English teacher turned photographer. We dive into Karen's journey, her struggles with self-doubt, and her strategies to overcome them. Karen shares her experiences from joining the photography community during COVID, her ambitions to evoke memories through her photos, and her aspirations to master lighting.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Overcoming Self-Doubt: Acknowledge your fears but don't let them hold you back. Build confidence by taking your camera with you everywhere. 
  • Embrace Imperfection: Let go of the need for complete control in every shot, allowing for creativity and spontaneity. 
  • Focus on Authenticity: Aim to evoke genuine emotions and memories in your photos, rather than seeking perfection. 
  • Persistent Practice: Consistent practice and learning from feedback are key to gradually enhancing your photography skills.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Carry Your Camera Everywhere: Make it a habit to bring your camera to all your daily activities, even if you don't intend to shoot. Challenge yourself with small, spontaneous photography projects to get more comfortable shooting in various settings.
  2. Work on Lighting: Observe how natural light changes throughout the day and practice shooting in different lighting conditions. Use simple tools like reflectors or white cards to manipulate light and learn how it affects your subjects.
  3. Embrace Spontaneity: Engage in Raymond Hatfield’s challenge to take 100 photos within 10 minutes to push your creative boundaries. Photograph a family member jumping, focusing on capturing their movement and expressions rather than aiming for flawless shots.
  4. Build a Support Network: Join local photography groups or online communities to share your work, receive feedback, and connect with other photographers. Actively participate in discussions and group activities to gain new perspectives and techniques.
  5. Plan and Execute Creative Projects: Brainstorm and plan a thematic photo shoot with a clear vision. Execute your planned shoot, taking time to set up props and lighting, then reflect on the results to identify areas for improvement and celebrate your progress.

RESOURCES:
Visit Karen Doughman's Website - https://doughmanphotography.mypixieset.com/
Follow Karen Doughman on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/doughman_photography/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Karen Doughman:

I don't want them to think of me. I want them to think of the subject, whoever's being captured in that image. I remember that moment. That was such a good time that we had. And I hope that it brings up other memories that surround that image, you know, things that happened a month before, a month after, or whatever that, that image somehow sparked. I want it to be a living memory that whenever they look at it, causes them to reflect on their life and that moment and how much they love that person that's being captured there.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And each week, well, I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we are chatting with community member Karen Domen about how to overcome self doubt when behind the camera. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Cloudspot. Cloudspot has everything you need to build a thriving photography business. Impress your clients, deliver professional experience, and streamline your workflow all in one platform. So grab your free forever account over at deliverPhotos. com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. You know, my goal for the podcast has always been to show you that there's more than one right way to get the shot. When some people say that, something is the only way to do it, I promise you others will find a hundred more ways to do the exact same thing. And while it's my hope that knowing that there's a million different ways to do the same thing would build confidence. for some, myself included, that can at times create decision fatigue where you actually feel overwhelmed by the amount of options. Today's guest Karen knows this all too well and today shares how she overcomes the self doubt and decision fatigue when she's behind the camera. So in this interview you will learn the power of carrying your camera with you every day to better familiarize yourself in different lighting conditions and environments. How to embrace imperfections and let go of control as sometimes spontaneity can lead to capturing more genuine moments. And the power of focusing on authenticity over perfection. Now I would love for you to join myself, Karen, and thousands of other photographers just like you looking to learn more about photography and grow your skills in the free and supportive beginner photography podcast community which you can join right now by heading over to beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group With that let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Karen Doman. My first question for you is we're going to start real simple. Who are you? What do you do?

Karen Doughman:

My name is Karen Doman. I, until just recently, was a middle school English teacher, so I did that for about 16 years. I left the classroom just recently, in December, and, it took an early retirement, and now I'm seeing what I can do with photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. so, obviously, long career in education, teaching lots of kids. When did photography come into the picture for you?

Karen Doughman:

Actually, when I was in college, I was in community college and you have to take your electives and one of the electives was photography. And that's what I chose. And so I didn't even own a camera at the time. So I went into the local use camera shop and I said, Hey, I'm going to take this photography class. Can you help me out? didn't even know what to get. And they said, Hey, if you buy this camera, your professor will be really impressed. And it was a Nikon FM too. And I was like, okay, great. I'll take it. and so I learned how to do some basics on the camera and I really enjoyed it. we developed our own film and we watched our Prince come to life in the dark room. And that was really exciting. I really enjoyed it. But at that time I was a single parent and photography is super expensive. So after a while I sat down that camera and I didn't pick up another camera for about 10 years. and then I graduated to, I think I had a Nikon D 3500 and I didn't know the difference between a crop sensor and a full frame. And. I just started carrying that camera around and taking some pictures. But again, life got in the way and I set it down again. So I wasn't super consistent until about this last year with the pandemic. I found I had extra time on my hands and I wanted to get back into it. So I promoted myself to mirrorless. And so now I have the Nikon Z5 and I've been. making more efforts to be more consistent with the photography since then.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you went, back to full frame. So when, obviously you got the FM two, right? When you brought that into class, because I have not shot with the FM two, but I believe that's one of their more like prosumer film cameras, right? It wasn't like a, like an entry level. You can get it at Sears. it was a higher level, right?

Karen Doughman:

Um,

Raymond Hatfield:

I guess we don't know. Okay, we'll find out.

Karen Doughman:

He just handed it to me, said your professor will be impressed. And I was like, okay. And, um, and I didn't know anything about it other than it would help me fulfill the requirements for that class.

Raymond Hatfield:

Gotcha. Okay, so you have the camera, you go into photography class, and you show up with the camera, what were some of those first things that you learned, because, obviously, it stuck with you to a point, you enjoyed something about photography, about the learning process of photography, that you kind of wanted to stick with it. What do you think that was?

Karen Doughman:

well, I really loved taking pictures of my kids. My kids were, you know, a toddler and a couple of were in elementary school. So I have three daughters. And so I really enjoyed capturing their emotions. and there's something magical about seeing the print come to life in the dark room and knowing, if I just burn and dodge, you know, I can create different effects in the image and knowing that I managed to get the settings right so that the picture looks. Like how it should look right. I didn't super overexpose or underexposed. So, there's a certain magic in that dark room and watching that all come together. And so that was really exciting It felt like there was more control in the creative process, which I feel is a little lost with digital. But at the same time, I appreciate digital because. I still make a lot of mistakes and it's way cheaper to make the mistakes with digital and see it on the back of the camera or in the computer than it is in the film, which you have to wait a week or whatever, and it's so expensive and so, that magical quality of being in the dark room and seeing it come to life, I'm like, oh, I, I did that. That's me. that's special. And I really was drawn to that. And of course it's pictures of your kids and how could you not enjoy that? Right,

Raymond Hatfield:

right, right. I remember, a few years ago, I believe it was, uh, Fabiola in the group who was talking about, you know, she's working really hard to, cull down the amount of images that she shoots, but finds that when. Photographing your kids. It's almost impossible to get rid of ones, even if they're just like a little bit of out of focus or whatever, because they are your kids. So I totally get that. And I'm, I'm the same way. It's so hard to get rid of those photos. but when you're in class, I want to know, you're there to learn photography. And I know, you're an English teacher, I'm sure that you had plenty of students who weren't very good with words. I would include myself in that camp, and that's why I found, a love for photography. But when you were there to learn photography, was there anything from a technical standpoint that was, difficult for you to understand or a concept to grasp?

Karen Doughman:

Oh, sure. The exposure triangle and how you can manipulate that and create different effects and it's something I still struggle with. My approach was just to like go out and do right. Just go out, snap the pictures and see what happens. And then you go back and you reflect. But when well, it didn't go well. Why did this happen? I don't remember a lot of book work in that. I don't I don't think we even had a book. It was just here's your camera. Here's a couple of lectures. Now go do your thing. I mean, it was 20 years ago, so maybe I'm forgetting. But it was basically you come and every week you had to have a roll of film to process and develop. And you had a class critique of your work. And so you would put your images up and you had 25 other people saying what they liked about it, what they didn't like about it. And from that you were supposed to grow and develop. But, you know, lighting is key in the photography. and if you don't understand the lighting, you're going to struggle every single time you pick up that camera. And I kind of get the lighting. I mean, I think a lot of my images that I post are, are nice, otherwise it wouldn't be posting them. Right. Um, but there's a lot that I throw out and it's like, there's something I'm doing wrong that I could be doing better. and it all always comes back to the light and how I use the light or misuse the light.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think that's a pretty powerful, practice that you put in by, you know, in school you were learning to be able to reflect on your work and then come back and look at your work and figure out what it is that you like and don't like. Do you think that you might, be too hard on yourself today? Because that's just a practice that you started so early, I guess. Hold on. I'm going to make this question even more complicated than it already is. I know that a lot of photographers, oftentimes they'll take a photo and, instead of looking at images, whether it's good or if it's bad, they'll just say, Oh, well, this is art. this is the photo that I wanted to get and this is what it is. But you had a different, upbringing in photography that was no, no, no, slow down, look at your images so that you can decide what it is that you like and what you don't like. Do you think that you're holding onto that too long?

Karen Doughman:

Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

into your process. Yeah.

Karen Doughman:

I'm by nature a bit of a perfectionist. and it served me very well in the classroom. What am I going to do? How am I going to do it? What do I want my students specifically to learn? And how do I want them to learn it? And how am I going to assess that knowledge? Right? So You have to have every step planned out. Otherwise chaos, right? 35, 13 year olds that that turns into chaos very quickly. So you have to know exactly what you're going to do every single minute. And if it doesn't turn out well, if you've missed a step, they let you know right away. And you have to come up with a plan B very quickly. So I've learned to anticipate Okay. the issues, the struggles, the missteps that my students are going to have, so I can try to create a lesson that, will take them to where they need to go in a very efficient way, but in a way that forces them to step outside themselves and to learn. Well, I, I apply that to photography, but. There's so many gaps in my knowledge that I don't know all the steps and so I become very frustrated. And then when I do evaluate my work, I was like, I somehow messed this up and I don't even know how I just know is wrong. And so that's very frustrating for me. And so I guess you could say that that. I'm holding onto it too tightly where I, I need to like let it go and just like, okay, move on and to just go forward and keep going. but until I figure out how I'm screwing it up, how can I improve? How can I get any better? And so yes, it's very challenging for me to let it go and to stop being so critical, but I feel that that critical aspect is, is important for growth. there's a balance there and I'm not saying I have it yet, but There's a balance, yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, how do you expect to get over that and get to whatever that next level in photography is for you?

Karen Doughman:

Well, I know that there's something I mean, I've talked about lighting already a couple of times and it's like I feel like I should be able to walk into any situation and be able to effectively read the light and know exactly what my settings should be on the camera. I am nowhere near that yet. so that's kind of my goal. full sun. That's a nemesis of mine. I have a very hard time with that. so I recognize that there are a few things that are holding me back. So, practice, making an effort to practice in those unfavorable conditions and, trying to read and just look at what other people are doing so I could see. What are their strategies? that's what I really appreciate about the beginner photography podcast daily challenge is that Kimberly's been posting articles and it's like, okay, I can read through those. And so I appreciate that academic side of it. It's not just posting pictures and say, Hey, look what I did. It's like, oh, you can learn something. And so I appreciate that.

Raymond Hatfield:

What most recently has been something that you've learned that you're going to put into practice in your photography?

Karen Doughman:

oh gosh, because there's so many things that collide altogether. well, I was just recently listening to the podcast with, Mark, I don't know what his last name is.

Raymond Hatfield:

Silber? Yeah,

Karen Doughman:

yeah, yeah. And he said something and I wrote it down because I was like, Yes, you should know your camera so well that it doesn't get in the way.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes.

Karen Doughman:

And I thought that was really profound because I was just taking pictures of a toddler who was running around and I have my camera set on the focal point where it's the eye tracker, which I think is great because toddlers move fast. But she handed me a flower and I wanted to focus on the flower and not on her. But the eye tracker was on and so it focused on her. And I was like, okay, I don't know how to change it. I don't know how to move that focal point to get it to do what I want. So my camera was getting in the way for me achieving what I want. And you only have like five seconds. I mean, there are two. So, um, so that I really appreciated that. And I remember, in another podcast, one of the community members, I think it was Kimberly said that she would sit on her couch and just adjust her camera just so she could get real quick. Doing the settings and I was like, okay, I need to sit down and do that because that's another thing where I was like, okay, my lighting has changed. I need to adjust. And it's like, okay, which way do I turn the dial? Which dial is it again? So, I mean, it slows me down. it's not stopping me, but it definitely slows me down.

Raymond Hatfield:

You know, I don't want to add anything onto your plate here of things that, maybe you should look into. But, when I first switched to Fuji, I found the same issue with the eye tracking. I thought in 90 percent of the situations. I was like, this is great. It's, you know, finding focus or whatever, occasionally at a wedding, though, it'll want to focus on. a groomsman die instead of the bride. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, I can't have that. so what I found was, I use back button focus when I'm not using autofocus. Have you tried back button focus at all?

Karen Doughman:

Yes. So I'm still doing something where I couldn't get it to do what I wanted it to do. Yeah. So I've been using that. But in focus for a while. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So that for me, I found the ability to immediately switch it into manual and then hit the back button focus, right where I wanted it to grab the shot and then put it right back into autofocus really kind of gives me a good blend of being able to do those two things. and I'm sure that there are people out there who are also struggling with that. So one, thank you for sharing that. And hopefully, that helps as well. Uh, autofocus is, it seems like something that you should just. like happen, but it is much more difficult than it needs to be, which is really unfortunate. I want to know, I guess, before I get into this question, what is it today that you're photographing most?

Karen Doughman:

kids. I have a five year old grandson. I know don't look like I should, but I do. and so I have a little project where I get him once a week and every week we do something and I'm taking pictures. last week, it was the museum and we went and we visited the dinosaurs and he's really into dinosaurs. So, I had one shot in mind and I just wanted to get him looking up at the dinosaur and that was the only shot with no other people. And, it just so happened that everyone cleared out of the way. And I said, go look up at the dinosaur. And he did. And I got the shot. So I was really pleased with that. but I want to do kind of like a documentary style with him. So he's getting ready for school. So when he goes and he gets his hair cut for school or when he learns to ride a bike, I want to be able to document those kinds of things. that's really exciting to me to capture those moments and just to see and watch him grow. I'd love to be able to do that with like members of the public to a documentary lifestyle kind of a session, where you maybe stay with the family for like a year and you capture some of their really special but everyday moments and just compile like that album and so they can just see how their family grows. So to me, that would be really exciting. I'd like to see that. but I need to master the lighting first. I can walk into somebody's house and know how to shoot it. So, I feel a little held back by my own, lack of skill in that regard.

Raymond Hatfield:

But what better way to learn than trial by fire, right? Yes. Just get thrown into the situation and just start doing it. Yeah. when you, went to the museum with your grandson, it sounds like you had an idea of the photo that you wanted in your head. Do you typically do that before you go out and start shooting?

Karen Doughman:

Yes, if I go and I don't have any ideas of what it is that I want the people to do, what poses that I want to achieve, then I'm like, um, okay, what are we going to do next? and then I shifted the responsibility to the subject and I should have that responsibility. and then I also get really super nervous. So that doesn't help me at all. So I do research different poses. I don't have it all intuitively yet. I'll go into Pinterest or I'll go into Instagram, or I have an app that I use. And, I'll look for poses that I think will work for what it is that I'm trying to accomplish and, I'll screenshot them and then I'll actually show my subject. Cause that's another skill is like explaining how to pose and to mirror the pose. So if I say raise your right hand, I'm raising my right hand, they raise their left hand and it's not working. So I haven't quite learned how to mirror it yet. It's a different part of the brain that needs to activate and mine's not there yet. so yeah, I have to have something in mind. Otherwise I just go blank and I get super nervous.

Raymond Hatfield:

So how do you intend on, doing more of these documentary sessions? Yeah, I know that's, it

Karen Doughman:

seems counterintuitive, right? Just based on what I said. But, when I'm following different, people on Instagram who are doing the lifestyle photo sessions, there are certain key angles and key groupings that come up, so it's like, okay, so even though it's not technically posed, There are certain things that are, repetitive that I see keep coming up that look good, that show that, connection and that emotion with the family members. And I was like, okay, so I could have those, those are my go to ones. And then, you know, what happens, you know, capturing what they do, and kind of be fluid with that, which is really, It's really outside my comfort zone because you've heard me talk about teaching and it's like very structured. So to, to kind of let go and just release and see what happens, that is very uncomfortable for me. But I think that that creates the best images. So that's what I'd like to push myself to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Why do you think that those images are better than the alternative?

Karen Doughman:

Well, I mean, there's a place for staged images like your JCPenney shots. There's a place for that. You know, grandma loves that shot. I think all families love at least one shot like that where everyone's looking at the camera and they want that to hang on the wall, but there's not a lot of emotion or memory attached to that. It's just, oh, we went to JCPenney and had our pictures done. But when the kids are rolling around, In the backyard in the mud pit and they're laughing and having a great time. Yes, they're messy and it's not staged, but there's so much emotion into it. And you can look back on that photo 10 years from now. And you're like, I remember when they did that and it was great. and that's what I want. I want those stories that, that the pictures, recall to your mind. Those are the images that I want to be able to take and, have people hang on their wall.

Raymond Hatfield:

So capturing photos that bring up that emotion, while being the fly on the wall and not create, not, not altering it at all. So, when, with your idea of these, documentary sessions, which I love by the way, I just wanna, Learn more about, would you approach it as, you know, here, let's get the whole family together for some sort of activity. And then I will document that or just I'm going to show up today and we're just going to see what happens.

Karen Doughman:

Well, I haven't done it yet, so I don't know. I think I think you should have. Perhaps an idea of like, Hey, let's do a couple of different activities and then, but still be able to go with it and be fluid. So if you just show up and everyone just plans on watching Netflix all day, well, that's, I mean, you might be able to get a couple of good images, but that's not going to be a good use of your time and energy. but if it's like, Oh, we're going to make cupcakes or we're going to go ride bikes, or, we're going to put a puzzle together, something like that, even though they seem like little small activities, well, those. Those will create some emotion. Those will create the images that you want to preserve. and that's what I would be excited to do. So to answer your question, it would have to be a mix in my opinion, you know, have something planned, but then still be willing to go with whatever happens.

Raymond Hatfield:

What do you think you need? skill wise, knowledge wise, portfolio wise, whatever, to be able to do one of these sessions, to feel comfortable, to do one of these sessions.

Karen Doughman:

I think it goes back to the use of lights. I see amazing photos, Where somebody will go into a room and it'll be like these forest green walls and they'll have a beam of light coming down and they'll like move all the furniture out of the way so that they can use that beam of light. think I'm still at the stage where I'll walk into that forest green room and I'll be like, Oh no, this is too dark. I can't do it. And I want to get beyond that. I want to get beyond like the. The initial reaction to really see like, Oh, I can take control of the setting. I can move the furniture and, take, advantage of that light. That's hitting the wall right behind the couch. Let's just pull the couch out of the way. that takes a certain boldness to go into somebody's house and to, to say, Hey, let's move the furniture. And so, I can do that with friends. I don't know that I can do that yet with strangers. so there's my comfort level that I need to just Get past, you know, and, and just have that confidence and project it and say, no, I can do this. so there's a couple of different things going on there that are kind of holding me back. But I think if I just practice, then, then I'll be able to do it. I just need the practice.

Raymond Hatfield:

Where are you going to get that practice from?

Karen Doughman:

I know I need to harass my friends more. Yeah, that's, that's what it is. I just, I just need to say, Hey, let me come into your house and let me document what's going on. And, um, hopefully they'll let me. That's too

Raymond Hatfield:

funny. Yeah. No, they should. They should. Right. I mean, if a friend came to me and offered to do that, I would say, absolutely. Yes. let's do this. Let's see what happens because worst case, I don't know, it doesn't turn out and you just don't have to I don't know. I guess share the photos or whatever, but the up there's so much more upside than there is a potential downside. So I think that they will say yes. And if they don't, well, then they're not really friends of yours. You just send them a strongly worded email afterwards. Um, you mentioned, uh, going on Pinterest and Instagram looking for poses, earlier, where do you find, I would say overall, inspiration to go out and, shoot the types of images that you want to create?

Karen Doughman:

Yeah, it is. I feel like I'm chasing. I feel like I'm chasing everyone else. That's already there. perhaps because this is kind of a later in life shift for me. I mean, I'm not 18 and just from high school and I have a camera and I'm so excited. I mean, I'm. Older. so it is kind of a big shift for me and I'm still growing into it, right? I'm still learning to, to develop my own ideas and my own visions. And so right now I'm borrowing everyone else's. So, Megda had that one where she, created this artwork and she, you know, in her photo with her daughter, and I was like, Oh my God, Oh, that's a possibility. I can look at old paintings and recreate them. And I did that and it was like, Oh, look what I did. I did that with my, my friend in the, in the red, scarf on her head. and it was gorgeous. And I was so pleased and I was like, okay, I can do this. but I feel like I'm chasing everyone else's ideas. And I think that's okay for right now, but I do have some, some of my own ideas. there are like, lines from children's stories that I would love to create the photographic representation of like famous lines from children's stories. my grandson loves, space and astronauts. And so I was like, I want to create an image where he's like jumping into the stars. I kind of have an idea of how to create it, but I don't yet. So I feel hampered by my own limitations, but I have the ideas. I sketched them out a little bit and now it's just like, how do I make that real? So I feel like I'm chasing everyone. But I, I feel like I'm starting to get my own ideas too. So that's exciting to see like, well, can I make this really happen?

Raymond Hatfield:

So let me ask you a question. When you have this idea, you know, take this photo of your grandson, just jumping into the stars, right? Let's say that you were trying to go and capture this. This wouldn't just be all on camera. This would probably include some sort of, post production, some Photoshop work. Is that right? This idea that you have.

Karen Doughman:

It would create. Yeah, well, Photoshop is a beast that I have not yet tamed. I kind of just walk by the cage where it's at, and it howls at me. so mine would be very rudimentary. I'm hoping it would be, you know, Great. I have these stars that I ordered and I would hang them from the ceiling with clear line and with a black backdrop and he's got a little astronaut helmet and a friend has a little trampoline and I'm like, well, if he could just jump up on the trampoline, like he's trying to grab the stars and then I could just erase the trampoline. That's probably. All I could handle in Photoshop, but I know somebody else could do glorious things, but that's a no, no,

Raymond Hatfield:

no screw everybody else. It doesn't matter what everybody else can do. It matters what you could do. Right? So I guess what I was going to try to get out there, which you had a much better answer for me. I was going to try to get at if there is a struggle, like a Photoshop, right? Something that you don't fully understand, technically, does that work. Yeah. Stop you or does that, discourage you from actually trying to capture the photo, but you kind of went the other way. You're like, let's try to get this all in camera, right? Like, let's get these stars, hang them from the ceiling, and then go ahead and get that. I like that idea a whole lot better because obviously that feels more, organic. Because if you think of like a real picture of stars, they're just tiny little dots, you know what I mean? It would be so hard to match lighting, at this stage. So, okay, let me go back. I love the idea of the trampoline. First of all, like, that's your challenge right now. I want you to do this. Like you have to get this photo and we have to see this. We, you have to be able to take this before this goes live so that we can post it in the show notes to, to see how this turns out. but second of all, I know that, you did something similar with flowers hanging from the ceiling from a clear string and you were asking questions in the group about Photoshop and overlays and how to do all this stuff and you were finding that, very frustrating. Yeah. Do you think that that experience, is turning you off of Photoshop or does that get you more excited for the things that are possible to do in photography? Does that

Karen Doughman:

make sense? It doesn't turn me off from Photoshop. What turns me off from Photoshop is that my computer really can't handle Photoshop efficiently. there's a lot of wait time and lag time and glitchiness. And so that is really frustrating to wait so long for my computer to respond to an action. I get bored. It's like two minutes and then I get irritated because I have other things I could be doing. You're wasting my time. And now is not the time to go out and buy a new computer with COVID and the chip shortage and all of that. So that'll be something in the future. so that the technology is really hampering me in that respect. but to get back to the flower strand images, which I, I love them. I just didn't appreciate that. I needed at least two to three times more flower strands. And so if I redo that in the future, I'm just going to hang more flowers. Yeah, yeah, so that it taught me something for the stars to I'll have to use more stars than I probably originally planned. Because I think it's just better to create the scene the way you want it than to have to worry about overlays because the lighting, you know, try to get the flowers to match the lighting, and then how I angled the camera, and then, you know, it was, you know, Too much to try to match and the lagginess of the computer. And then I'm still learning. So it's not intuitive yet. I'm like looking up videos and then pausing the video and trying to recreate it. And then it was just too frustrating. There were too many variables that weren't going my way when I could have just hung two to three more strands and I wouldn't have had the issue. So. just knowing that I probably need more More than less because I can always take away, but I can't add more later easily, right? Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah So, how many stars do you think you're going to need for this photo of your grandson jumping into the stars?

Karen Doughman:

I don't know. It depends on the spacing the spacing will be much smaller because i'm going to be using a backdrop in the front room Yeah, i'm just using my house. And that backdrop is six by six, maybe. so I need enough stars. You're making me do math. I'm an English teacher. Okay, so try

Raymond Hatfield:

to come up with the numbers, you know, 200 stars, probably 30 stars. is what I'm thinking. 30 stars. 30 stars. Okay, okay. So now you know you need 30 stars, you need the string, you already got the backdrop. What's next? What next do you need to, from a technological standpoint or equipment standpoint, to be able to capture this photo?

Karen Doughman:

I just need to make the time at this point. I need to borrow the trampoline. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna buy one. I'm gonna borrow. and then, hopefully the child will be cooperative. He has a mind of his own. So sometimes, fruit snacks work wonders. So we'll see what can happen there. and then I'll be adjusting as I go. So, do I need to lower them or raise the height of the stars and the window light? I do all natural light. I don't have a flash. So far that's been working out well for me. so yeah, then it just becomes about the time and the cooperation of the subject.

Raymond Hatfield:

So how do you find time for photography?

Karen Doughman:

Well, I took that early retirement so now I have time all the time. So before it was Just a couple of days a month and now it's like I could do every day if I wanted to So i'm making an effort to at least You do photography at least once a week, more if possible. And so I am making more of an effort to plan the shoot. So it's not just random. but I did listen to one of your podcasts. I was like, take a hundred photos in 10 minutes. And I was like, yeah, I, I don't know that I can. That's

Raymond Hatfield:

the point of it.

Karen Doughman:

Because I think that's where my need to control just a little too much comes in, where it's like, I think I have to plan it a little bit. Otherwise, it's going to be 100 photos of the refrigerator. And that's just not the point.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, that is the point. That's exactly the point. You're missing the point of that being the point. And that is to give up some of that control, because we all are very, you know, we can have that perfection tendency, especially in photography, where it's like, it comes. Only from us, right? From our brain, from our ideas, from this creative space. And then we use our camera as a tool to be able to capture this. And oftentimes photographers, myself included even, will spend far too much time on a photo because we want it to be absolutely perfect. But the goal is, no, no, no, no, no, no. Try to lose as much control as possible and see what you get. Because. In those moments where you find a photo that you absolutely love, take that introspective look and ask yourself, what is it about this photo that I like? So that now when it's time to spend more time on a photo, you can focus on those things. So now you have two challenges this week, right? You're going to go ahead and photograph your son, your grandson jumping into the stars, and you're going to take a hundred photos of your fridge in 10 minutes. That's what we're going to do. And we're gonna see how it turns out because I know that it's gonna work wonders. I know that it's gonna work wonders. that's what you're gonna do. We're gonna see those photos. but moving on, want to know more about, this journey where you're taking now to continually learn photography because you've been in the Facebook group for almost a year now, which is wonderful. So I want to know, how did you find the group and what is something that you've learned in the group that maybe you wish that you learned earlier?

Karen Doughman:

I found the group through the podcast. So, when I picked up that camera, during COVID the quarantine, I was like, okay, we had just transitioned to going back to face to face, instruction. And I was not happy about that. And I was like, okay, well, if I'm going to have to go to work, I'm going to listen to something. And so I found your podcast and I started listening then. And, shortly thereafter, I joined the Facebook group. And what do I wish I would have learned? it's something I'm still struggling with is just taking the camera with me everywhere, and to kind of what you're saying with the hundred pictures, it's just, you know, Relax and take the shot. so that I still struggle. I feel like I am a and I don't like feeling that way. so that makes it hard for me. But San Diego is a touristy town, so you can kind of get lost in the crowd. But still, I feel like, Oh, my gosh, people are gonna be looking at me like, What are you doing with that camera? Why are you taking pictures of that? Or, you know, Or worse, when I go to a touristy spot like Balboa Park, I think you know a little bit about San Diego.

Raymond Hatfield:

yes,

Karen Doughman:

there's a photographer on every corner. I kid you not. Every time I go, there's at least three weddings, 10 quinceañeras and all the maternity pictures. And some photographers have their entourage and they have like three people and they're all holding lighting equipment. And I'm like, Oh, the professionals are here. I need to go somewhere else. I can't, I can't keep up with these people and they're going to know just by how I'm holding my camera that I don't belong here.

Raymond Hatfield:

Um,

Karen Doughman:

so that

Raymond Hatfield:

where your mind goes, really, that that's where it goes. It does.

Karen Doughman:

It's really, I'm busy in my mind and it takes a lot of effort to fight back those feelings and, those words that I tell myself and, to force myself to stay there until like, Oh no, I can be here too. that's challenging. But. I know, like intellectually, I know if I just take my camera with me and I take advantage of every situation that I'm in to, to take pictures, then I will get better and those voices will, will quiet.

Raymond Hatfield:

So what are you going to do to be able to get to that point?

Karen Doughman:

It's just about investing the time, that's all it is.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have the time to just carry your camera on you, right? You go and do things. You can carry your camera on you. What if I gave you permission to not take any photos, but just to simply bring it with you? Would that change how you feel about bringing your camera with you places?

Karen Doughman:

Maybe.

Raymond Hatfield:

But there's only one way to find out, right?

Karen Doughman:

Yes. Yes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. So now you have three challenges this week. We're just gonna load you up with as many challenges as possible. I want to know, after a time of shooting, of growing your voice as a photographer, building up a portfolio at some point, a collection of images, say, you know, 10 15 years from now, what do you want? People to feel when looking at your photos.

Karen Doughman:

just that. Oh, I remember that sweet moment. I mean, I don't want them to think of me. I want them to think of the subject, whoever's being captured in that image. I remember that moment. That was such a good, good time that we had. and I hope that it brings up other memories that surround that image, you know, things that happened a month before, a month after, or whatever that, that image somehow sparked. And so that's what I would love. I don't want it to be like. This dated, isolated, oh yeah, she snapped that picture. I don't, I don't want it to be that. I want it to be a living memory that whenever they look at it, they causes them to, reflect on their life and that moment and how much they love that person that's being captured there.

Raymond Hatfield:

What about others? What do you want others to think of your work? What feeling, what emotions do you want brought up in somebody not in the photo? Somebody who doesn't know anything about what's going on in the photo? What do you want them to feel about? Your images.

Karen Doughman:

We hope that it's like an honest capture. so it's not overly staged. it's not dated by the editing process. Like these orange filters that people are using. I don't want the shag carpet of, photo editing. I don't want it to be dated in that way. but I, I would hope that somebody would look at it and say, oh, it's, it's a simple image. it's a clean edit. It's true to life. Yeah. that reflects real life and that they would be happy if somebody had taken that image of them.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's beautiful. That is something that, I strive for as well. it's very similar. I think as artists, we know that we feel something when we look at our work, right. When we create it. And I think we just want to know that others can feel the same. Because that's just a form of connection right there. So that's, that's beautiful. well, Karen, I think we are at the end of our time here. But before I let you go, is there anything maybe, I didn't ask you about photography, that you want to say or any questions that you have that I can answer for you? or anything like that?

Karen Doughman:

Oh, gosh. I don't know. At some point, I hope to master the lighting struggles that I have and then see where I can go with flash and external lighting and see what kind of creativity I can do with that. But I don't know if that would work against what I would hope to do with the in home documentary style. I just can't imagine bringing all that equipment into somebody's home. Right. Then it becomes not real anymore. it's too much interference. even just for moving a couch. Yeah, yeah, even that. See, now you're bringing it back to my self consciousness.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, this is just it's it's whatever you want it to be. You know, yeah, it's whatever you want it to be. Who cares? You know what other people think or who cares what you know? Ideas you may have about something if you you know, Want to do something or don't want to do something. just do it. Just do it.

Karen Doughman:

Yeah, I'm still learning how to do that I'm still learning how to quiet those those, you know words of self doubt and just just to do it

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, it takes time. It definitely takes time I remember when I first started it was very similar, you know Whenever I'd go somewhere I'd see somebody else with a camera and think you know cuz when I first started it was with a entry level it was a Canon, X T, which was like seven megapixels or something like that. Like it was a very entry level camera. And I remember cause, uh, I started digital photography, learning digital photography when I was in film school. And as you can imagine, when you're in film school, there's like camera nerds who, have like a 5, 000 Leica or, you know, like these red cameras. And here I was with like this 300. Canon entry level camera and I felt, I felt very similar to you as well. but I just gave myself permission to not take any photos and just to literally just have it on me. And that was one of the biggest things that I think helped me in my journey because eventually I got to this point where I would always have it on me and then I'd see something and be like, Wait a second, what is that? And then I just pull out my camera, take a photo, and then I'd be done with it. And I think it's those little moments, of capturing that light. Those little moments of capturing that expression, or that thing that's happening, or using this focal length. That, over time, Compound and get you to where you want to go faster, even though at the time it doesn't seem like you're investing, a lot of energy all at once, you know what I mean? Like it's just little moments throughout the day that all come together. And, you know, within a year you've had, I don't know, you combine all that time and it's like five full days of photography, and that amount of time would be invaluable. So again, I really encourage you to just Yeah. Bring it with you. Carry it on your shoulder. Don't take any photos. And that's going to be the best way to see the light is actually seeing how your camera reacts to light, as you know, it's, it's very different than how our eyes kind of perceive our eyes are do this really good job at, telling our brain like, Oh, that color is actually white when really maybe it's, it's more yellow or it's more blue or, you know, what have you, and carrying your camera with you. It's going to be the only way or the fastest way. I took the back, not the only way, the fastest way for you To really see what light does and figure out how to use it in your photographs. So can you do that? Can you just carry it on you?

Karen Doughman:

I can carry it with me. Yes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Well, Karen, again, I really appreciate your time today. before I let you go, can you let others know, aside from the beginner photography podcast community, where they can find you online?

Karen Doughman:

I'm on Instagram. So my last name, Doman underscore photography, and I'm also on Facebook at Doman photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

I Invite you to come join our free and amazing community of photographers just looking to learn and grow their skills just like you By heading over to beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group now. Thanks for listening to today's episode. And remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.