The Beginner Photography Podcast

519: Hannah Marie: Capturing Children's Personalities: Why Storytelling is Essential in Family Photography

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Hannah Marie, a passionate family and child portrait photographer. Hannah shares her journey from a wakeboard instructor to a successful photographer, emphasizing the importance of storytelling in capturing children's personalities. She shares valuable advice on improving client communication, staying organized in business, and making the most of natural lighting.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Embrace Storytelling: Ensure your images tell the unique story of each subject. Personal stories add depth and meaning to your photos.
  • Value Client Communication: Prompt and clear communication with clients builds trust and sets clear expectations, enhancing your professional reputation.
  • Utilize Natural Lighting: Mastering natural light can elevate the quality of your portraits, making them more intimate and engaging.
  • Stay Organized: Using tools like CRM systems can help you stay organized, manage your workflow, and maintain consistency in your business.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Capture Personality in Portraits: Spend time talking with your subjects before the shoot to understand their interests and personalities. Focus on natural expressions during the session rather than overly posed shots.
  2. Master Natural Lighting: Practice shooting at different times of the day to observe how natural light affects your images. Use reflectors to manipulate available light and highlight your subject's features.
  3. Improve Client Communication: Implement a prompt email response system and set clear session expectations with clients to ensure a smooth experience. Prepare templates for common client interactions to save time and provide consistent information.
  4. Organize Your Business: Utilize tools like "17 Hats" to manage bookings, client communications, and workflow seamlessly. Set up automated emails and reminders to streamline your processes and enhance client satisfaction.
  5. Refine Your Marketing Strategies: Develop a client-focused website that showcases your best work and clearly explains your services. Participate in online and local photography groups to network, gain referrals, and stay updated on industry trends.

RESOURCES:
Visit Hannah Marie's Website - https://hannahmarie.ca/
Follow Hannah Marie on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hannahmariephotographer/

Grab your free 52 Lightroom Presets at
http://freephotographypresets.com/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Hannah Marie:

You have to be confident in your pricing and your business structure. I just speak to people as though they've already hired me. Like the instant I get an email from somebody, I call them and they're shocked that I'm calling them, but I'm like, I know that they're sitting at their computer right now specifically thinking about hiring a photographer. So I'm not interrupting dinner. I'm not interrupting a business meeting. And so I get them on the phone. I'm like, hi, this is Hannah Marie from KW headshots are from Hannah Marie photography. And then I just ask them a bunch of questions and like build that relationship straight away because I'm confident in wanting to serve them versus like, are they going to hire me? And like, am I going to get money from this?

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's Rewind episode, we are talking with family photographer, Hannah Marie, about creating connection with your subjects to capture more authentic portraits. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Cloudspot, So your photos through prints, products, and of course, digitals. With cloud spot, you can set up a storefront in minutes and start earning more with every gallery you send. So grab your free forever account today over at deliver photos. com and only upgrade when you are ready. So Hannah is a family and child portrait photographer who honestly has some of just the most glowing reviews I've read from any photographer ever. And as a photographer in business, really hard to stress how important reviews are. They are truly one of the most important elements to growing your business because not only do reviews grow social proof that you're not just some fly by night but as you'll hear, they can also provide valuable insight from your clients about what they find most valuable. And sometimes it's not what you think it is. And if you're not a family photographer, then no worries. There is a ton here that you will still be able to use and learn for yourself. In fact, today you're going to learn how to craft a client experience that your clients will just absolutely rave about how to capture authentic personalities in portraits and the legalities of posting images of children that you photograph who aren't yours online. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Hannah Marie. Today's guest is a family and child portrait photographer from our neighbor to the North Canada, whose clients say amazing things like she's a true artist with a gift and her photos convey real raw and intimate emotions. They will forever remind me of the special time in my life What an incredible review that is today. I'm really excited to chat with her and discover how she can deliver such powerful images. Today. I'm chatting with Hannah Marie. Hannah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Hannah Marie:

Hi, Raymond. Thanks for having me.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. I start off kind of every interview like this. love the introduction. It's always so like big and grand and it just really gets me fired up. But I know from personal experience that you don't get to that point overnight. It has to start from somewhere. So the first question that I always ask is how did you get your start in photography?

Hannah Marie:

It's a very good question. I was probably like 24, 25 and accepted a job at a summer camp. Well, it summer resort basically for like the richest kids in the world. They fly in and they have like a helicopter landing pad. Um, and so I had a job there as a wakeboard instructor, injured my ankle and switched over to photography

Raymond Hatfield:

for the camp.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, like instructing photography and stuff for the kids. cause I had studied art in school. I knew enough about like composition and stuff like that. And then I also had to teach. Photoshop. So some of the kids would come in and be like, you should show them how to do this. And I'm like, Oh, do you remember how to do it from last year? Why don't you show them? And then I'd like watch over their shoulders. so that was really the beginning. And the CEO owned like thousands of dollars worth of Canon gear. So that gave me access to that throughout the whole summer. And I shot like fundraising events for the camp that are like, 15 couples, they raised 30, 000 kind of nights, like very wealthy community. So they look like little mini weddings in the portfolio. I did family portraits for the full time staff, photographing kids all afternoon, doing all sorts of different things. So really my start was in like photographing children. And would actually lend me his gear during the year. Cause he doesn't, he never used it. Like he's not a photographer. So if I ever had a job that I was interested in doing, he would let me borrow his stuff. And, so that was really interesting. And then I did a small business course for a year or eight months sponsored by our government actually. And the whole idea was that, they would give us funding for those eight months. Half of it was in class, half of it was out launching. And, by the end of it, you were supposed to have a fully functioning business with a full business plan behind you. So, um, yeah, it was really cool. Unfortunately the funding was cut. That was the last year that they offered it, but, uh, it was brilliant. And that gave me like the business sense. And, Midway through that, I was like, I guess I should buy my own gear. Like if I'm opening a photography studio, I should probably own a camera. And then within the same program, I also launched a wedding coordinating company, knowing that one would went out over the other because they're both kind of seasonal. in Canada, our main wedding season is obviously spring, summer, fall, and the same for family portraits. So, that first year that I launched, I mainly did wedding coordinating, but I would keep my gear on me so that while I was coordinating these weddings, I would have photos for my portfolio for wedding coordinating. And then I just put those on my wedding photography website too. And so by that next season I had nine weddings booked for shooting and coordinating. So I don't necessarily recommend doing it that way because I had no experience shooting a wedding. the only way I went into it confidently is that I had a second shooters who I had confidence in and I never needed to fall back on that, but it was just that guarantee of like, if I totally screw this up for the first couple of weddings, like I know that I'm not going to disappoint the bride and groom. That was my main goal is to not disappoint them. So that's how I got started. And I remember my very first newborn shoot was right when I launched my photography company in that first summer. And. It was like a preemie. He looks like a tiny little, like the diapers were like this big. And, I was so proud of those pictures and I put them in my portfolio on Flickr and Flickr, is that what it's called?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Hannah Marie:

and totally forgot about it. And then I happened upon this account like four or five years ago and saw the pictures and they're just mortifying. It's like, literally I'm zoomed. focused on the little butthole when it's supposed to be like a cute bum picture. It's just like terrible. So, uh, yeah, I've definitely, hopefully grown since

Raymond Hatfield:

then. Humble beginnings. I get it. I get it. That's too funny. you mentioned there, that you had a little bit of an art background, knowledge about composition and stuff. But when you picked up that camera, I kind of wanted to know what was the hardest part about the photography side, for you to grasp?

Hannah Marie:

That's a good question. I think, honestly, the workflow after the fact. I, like, the first couple of weddings I edited in, like, Picasa or something like that, right? Like, it's terrible. Um, and I was doing, like, 1, 200 pictures in, like, Picasa. But I mean, I was charging like very beginner rates, right? I've just always had that like, I'm going to get it done. However, I know how. So, I'd say like that post processing and like that client experience is the most difficult, to learn. But in terms of actually shooting, I mean, I think that I could have grown a lot faster if I had a coach or mentor or had gone to conferences. I didn't even go to my very first conference until, 2015 I want to say.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you remember what it was? What the conference was? Definitely.

Hannah Marie:

The other one seemed very big and, almost intimidating to go to alone. And I had reached out to some local photographers previously and said like, Hey, would you like to go to WPPI with me this year? And they were like, Oh yeah, my husband and I are going like, let's go. We'd love to meet up with you while we're there. And I'm like, no, I'm like looking for a roommate, but most of the photographers in my city are married, like married couple photographers. So I can never really find, and I didn't search all that hard, but I just didn't really ever go to those. And then shutterfest was so small and within driving distance. I mean, it's like a, I don't know, 12 hour drive, but like we do a lot of traveling, so, that's just like, if I can get there in a day, fine.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm interested to know if there are any conferences that you would recommend, newer photographers going to today.

Hannah Marie:

Definitely. So Shutterfest by far, primarily because it's very hands on. It's a phenomenal community. The Facebook group is insanely encouraging. all of the instructors are in there. Like, if you have a question, we'll chime in, if we see it. especially like I went there for the first time, not knowing anybody. And, left with like what I felt like a community of friends and even like family, like I'm not speaking there this year. I'm taking a whole year off from speaking. I'm not traveling at all for work this year, but, like this coming speaker season, but. speaker list was just released yesterday and I'm just like, feeling like, Oh, but I feel like that with every conference, but for the very beginning ones, I think Shutterfest is definitely hitting that level of a lot of beginner education and it's very, very financially friendly. I think it's like 99 bucks. Okay. So Yeah, it's very accessible. That was the other thing. I could drive there. It was a low entry point financially and I could find a roommate. So,

Raymond Hatfield:

you know what? I don't know if I've ever shared this on the podcast, but I've, I've never been to a photography convention either. Yeah. Um, I don't know. guess it's one of those like, what do they call it? Humble excuses where it's like, well, I got two kids at home, you know, my wife works nights and like, there's no way that I could get to something like that. But, after hearing your review of, what it's done for you personally and professionally, I think I might have to make it a priority for sure. That sounds great.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. And in fact, like even once I got like, so after that, that happens in April or sometimes late March, like the week right after Easter every year. And then, well, oddly enough, my next big thing was speaking on creative live that fall. Like I went into this industry, like not knowing anybody in like within five months was on creative live. Um, it's kind of going backwards the way that most people do it. And then I went to WPBI or no, uh, imaging came first that next January. And of course it was like the Shutterfest people that I saw there that I was like, okay, I know you guys, I'm going to hang out with you. And then that's how I made all my connections, like outside of Shutterfest and met all sorts of people. So it was amazing. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's so exciting. Now you got me excited to look into something like that. And Shutterfest is not, I think it's only four hours from me. It's not very far. We got, uh, Jason in the group from St. Louis, so it's not far for him. Maybe we could, maybe I could just crash on his couch. I'll have to see if that's okay with his family. And they're

Hannah Marie:

always looking for family models. So get your wife to take some time off work. Get your kids to model. Have lots of beautiful pictures of them. That's

Raymond Hatfield:

a great idea. That's great. Now, yeah. I should absolutely look into that. That's hilarious. So, you said that one of the first things that you started shooting was children. Now you have, uh, focus a lot on, children and, families as well. I want to know that in, in your own words, what would you say that the job description of a child or portrait photographer is?

Hannah Marie:

well, it's funny because this past month I've been doing, these interviews with the local political candidates. We have an election going on and. Partially as a marketing strategy for myself, but I start each one saying an introduction to myself and I say, I'm passionate about connecting with people, telling their stories and educating others. So within the photography industry, I do that through, connecting with kids. Like it's my job to connect with that child and build that relationship really quickly. And, maybe also with the family and then tell the story of where they're at. like I love the idea of. Bringing a little boy and particularly boys because it's such like a pivotal moment in their lives at least the ones that I know Right before their very first haircut because literally they go from like your little baby boy to a little boy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, it's just like do you have a little boy?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes, we do. Yeah

Hannah Marie:

It's just so weird, right? And how many people don't even think to capture that like? That pivotal transition in their lives

Raymond Hatfield:

at least one right here

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, and I like so just even planting that idea in a parent's mind and they're like, oh, I definitely want to do that or when your little girl has like her front teeth missing or any of that. So it's my job to tell that story of the family and If you go to my family portrait website, it says, we are the storytellers photographing children for the loveliest of families worldwide, because I want to plant that, that in their mind. Like, I'm not just coming to take snapshots of your family at the park. I'm coming to tell this story of your family over the years. And, also using that language, you hear storyteller and you think of a book, right? And so instantly, without even saying, I want to sell you an album, they're thinking, I want an album of my story that she's telling me. So, that's what I see my job as, as a storyteller for these families.

Raymond Hatfield:

So being a part of a storyteller, it can be, a small portion of a photographer, right? Being able to tell the story, you do that through your photographs. Definitely. But when you photograph children, I want to know, what is it that you're trying to get, right? Like, you're trying to tell that story, but is it, is it a certain shot? is it just a personality? what is it that you're trying to achieve?

Hannah Marie:

Definitely personality. I want it to be showing like, okay. So this is how, how I do this. I shoot best when it's just me and that kid in the room. If the parents are there, they kind of distract from it. I'm just going through my cards right now to show you some pictures, but like this little one, like she just has that kind of sass in her look. Um,

Raymond Hatfield:

but it's super elegant. Like

Hannah Marie:

she loves having like her hair and makeup done. This little kid. that was how she was convinced to come for pictures was like, we'll do your hair, makeup, we'll do your nails. But if we do that, you have to let us take your picture too. And she's like, okay, this is her as well. So again, a different personality side of hers, but still that like

Raymond Hatfield:

more engaging.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. And in the studio look, all of the focus is on the kids. It's not on the background of the park. It's not like any of that. It's just drawing out their personality. This little guy capturing that, like wonder in his eyes. And, actually all three, I just opened my studio a year ago. Not even a year ago, January, all three of these were taken in my living room right here. Like. In this room. Wow. Wow. With natural light. So this isn't like you need thousands of dollars of lighting gear. You don't need anything fancy. It's in front of my painted wall. All three of them. same with this one.

Raymond Hatfield:

So when you're taking those photos. That's great. That's a beautiful shot. I know all those are on your website and they look incredible. So if anybody's listening right now, that's such a great idea. If anybody's listening right now, I'll put links in the show notes. if you're in a podcast app, you can just scroll down and you should see the show notes. I'm not entirely sure how that works, but the link will be there and you can check out those photos for sure. so. you meet with these kids, right? They come into the studio, how much prep work is done before to get information about their personality versus, I guess, when they show up? what's your process on that?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, I mean, I am shifting that because I can no longer book out in advance as far, but typically, like, it's fun to try to build a connection with them and Maybe send a letter in the mail and like either they're pen pal buddy to build that relationship, but also before I even started that strategy they would just come I would ask the parents like how old are they? What are their favorite shows like if I need to? Be able to draw them out of their shell more I want to be able to say like talk about Dora or whatever it is that is their very favorite but It was interesting because I've only made the shift to children photography as as a specialty, about two or three years ago, prior to that, I was mainly focusing on weddings because I thought I've worked in the wedding industry for so long through school. I sold wedding gowns. I had been a wedding coordinator. Like, it was just every much. Everything was pointing towards weddings. And then I realized, well, actually I've worked with kids most of my life. So I might have 10 years of experience in weddings and eight years shooting them. But I have literally like 30 years of experience working with kids. And I realized like, that's where my passion is. Like I can connect with them so quickly. So it isn't even necessarily doing things in prep ahead of time. Like you can do as much as you want ahead of time, but being present and speaking to them, um, And making eye contact and like noticing what they're excited about. The picture of the little boy with that look of wonder, like I said, it was in my living room and he was like, so distracted by the blinds that I couldn't get his attention. So I just grabbed the string of the blind, pulled it behind him. So it wasn't in front of his face and just like, Pulled on it to get the blinds up and like, I think that was with my left hand and like shot that look. He just like was shocked that it moved and shot that. So just working with what they're interested in. Like I'd spent probably like four minutes trying to get him to not pay attention to that. And I thought, okay. I'm just going to give in and like use what he's paying attention to to get a reaction out of him. So a lot of it is about just being present with them and understanding what they're interested in.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's something that I hear a lot, right? I've talked to other, photographers who focus on, on working with children and as somebody who I just don't connect well with kids at all, like, at all, like, unless it's my own kids, I'm just like the super awkward guy. Uh, it just always strange, right? So I always want to know more about connecting with kids and it seems like what comes up time and time again is just get on their level. Talk to them like they're children. Is there any more to that or am I just missing something?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, I mean, I think that the parents, well, I mentioned this, the parents kind of distract. So, I also have questions that I ask them, that, I mean, kids just really love me. Like, if you aren't good with kids, don't try to pull your teeth out trying to shoot them, you know? Like,

Raymond Hatfield:

focus on what you love. I guess I'm not trying to get the answers for myself, but I'm thinking about listeners more, but I am good with kids.

Hannah Marie:

There are some people who are like, are not good at all with teens, and are like trying to force a senior section of the website, and you can see that they're not really connecting with that, like, age group. The people in their photos aren't connecting with the photographer and their children's photography is stunning and it sometimes just takes a mentor saying like focus only on kids like you don't have to do all this other stuff and they're like, I can do that. Yeah, you can do that. And sometimes it just takes that permission. So one of the things that I do to engage with kids is ask them questions, particularly in family situations, but also if they're on their own. Say I'm photographing a daughter and a father together. the first time through, cause I shoot both like formal and informal outfits. So the first time through, I will, say to the, one of them, usually the little girl, like start with the kid and I'll say, Sally, can you tell me something? Um, That you really love about your dad. What do you love doing with him? And she'll like look at him with like this melted face. And the dad is all melty cause it's like, I wonder what she's gonna say and then I photograph that. And the mom's behind me, experiencing this and hearing it. And then, The little girl will say whatever and whether it's like and sometimes it takes like 10 minutes for them to get to the soft Side of it. Some of them have a very jokey relationship. Yeah, and I'll just let them banter as long as they want And if mom tries to say, oh guys get serious I'll just say no no like let them do their thing and let them banter and usually even if it takes 10 minutes Usually by the end and that's usually with like teenagers or preteens, right? They're maybe not used to being intimate with one another and like sharing What they appreciate about one another. So it takes them a minute to get there, but usually by the end they get there and have like really, really special shots of them. Uh,

Raymond Hatfield:

really good. Like just quick, actionable tip that, uh, anybody can implement for sure. I love it. Thank you so much. And

Hannah Marie:

then on the next way through, I asked the parents, um, would they, and usually for the parents, if it's a little kid, I'll say like, what's one thing that you've really enjoyed seeing him learn this year, or if it's an older child, I just ask questions to help the parents honor that child and say like, what's something in their character that you're really proud of that you've seen them this year and take like actually make an experience for them of like, I want to help them connect. I'm passionate about strong family connections and so I want to use my family portraits to help them make stronger connections with one another.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. Yeah. And when they're more invested in the photos that they're in, they're going to enjoy the photos more and want to hang more photos. They'll buy them. Yeah. Yeah, because

Hannah Marie:

they only, I only make money when they buy a product. So.

Raymond Hatfield:

And that's ultimately why we're in business, of course. Yeah,

Hannah Marie:

I want them to be emotionally attached to every single picture. So they're like, I need them all. And then they buy an album.

Raymond Hatfield:

when working with kids, I think for a lot of beginners, there's a lot of questions about, legalities when it comes to, what you can and can't do with the photos, afterwards. what should listeners be doing to ensure that they're covered?

Hannah Marie:

Speak to a lawyer in your area. Because honestly, like, I'm in Canada,

Raymond Hatfield:

so it might be

Hannah Marie:

totally different. but yeah, I think that's the best thing is just to speak to a lawyer and ensure that you're following the laws of your country. Ok, so then

Raymond Hatfield:

I guess, to rephrase that question. Was there anything that you weren't doing that, Maybe you figured out, like, oh, I should be doing this. This is something that, that I need to do.

Hannah Marie:

In order to use the photos

Raymond Hatfield:

after the fact? I suppose so. Or, yeah, anything that Or, like, the way that I'm interacting with them? no, I guess either, on your website or the way that you advertise, because ultimately you have to show photos to get, uh, reactions from people to come and book you, for you. Is it something as simple as asking if you could, use photos of the children or was there anything else?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. I mean, it's just in my contract, a model release. and they have to initial there, so if at any point someone doesn't want the pictures online, I just say that's absolutely okay.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. That was going to be my follow up question.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, definitely, because my job is to serve them. Yeah. They're paying me to serve them. imagine if, like, you went to a fine dining restaurant and paid for this beautiful experience, and then were told, Okay. Now we're going to take a picture of you guys dining here and what are your full names and where are you from? And we're going to post this to our website unless like you pay us another hundred dollars. It's just like what? Like I

Raymond Hatfield:

literally just can't take your picture then you can't eat here.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah Right. Um, so I think like we just have to remember that we are serving them smart and as long as they feel well taken care of then like I shot a wedding for a celebrity couple once and I can't say who it is and I can't use their pictures on my portfolio, but because they trust that I won't do that, then they'll be more likely to refer people to me. Right. So,

Raymond Hatfield:

of course, of course. That's a great tip. I hear a lot of, newer photographers saying, Oh, they don't want me to use their photos. What should I do? And it's interesting the amount of comments that you'll see that just like, forget them. don't even like book them. Why? What a horrible tip. What a horrible, horrible tip. Cause you're not in business. To, use people to get more business, right? I mean, you can, that's great. That's always great when that happens. But like you said, the core reason that you're in business is, is to serve, whoever your client is.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. Now, if you are doing like a discounted rate or a model call, absolutely. Like they're literally doing that in exchange, for being used as your model, But I definitely like I have a concept that I want to shoot a new style of maternity And so I contacted somebody who I know is like my ideal client. She's stunning. She Is a hair and makeup artist so she can um And, uh, so the, or sorry, it wasn't a maternity, it's, for the one year, like a beautiful portrait of like mom and baby at one year's old or like eight months old. so there is sometimes a barter of, okay, in exchange for this, I would like three full resolution digital images because I'm all product, right. Or, and then at that point I just have to say like, okay, well, what's, what's the Is this going to give enough value to my business that I'll do that? Or maybe when you're starting out, it's, you do it for free and which this was and in exchange for like 10 digitals.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. And

Hannah Marie:

they get that. because typically with my models, I'll say I'll approach somebody. If somebody is approaching me, it's paid. Like you can't approach me to model for me. I

Raymond Hatfield:

totally understand

Hannah Marie:

that. But, if I'm approaching somebody, it's because they match my brand. They're my ideal client. And at that point, I say, anything that I use in my portfolio, you will receive as like a web resolution, digital image, and you're more than welcome to see all of the portraits after the fact and choose any of your favorites and we'll do a full ordering session. And they can order a product just like any of my clients, but the ones that they get are my very favorites that I've selected and I've added it for my portfolio. And then they can have that, but it's not big enough to print.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right, of course. I think that, for a lot of the listeners, the idea of, taking photos and not giving them the digitals hard to, wrap their head around. And, But I don't want to get into that today. We can definitely get into that later. I want to know more about, getting those couples in front of your camera. So for somebody who's like just starting out, right, what are some tips that you have for getting your first family, your first, child in front of the camera so that you can use that to, to build a bigger portfolio?

Hannah Marie:

Hmm. I mean, in terms of my portfolio when I was starting out, it was mainly my cousin's kids. Like she, I was naturally taking pictures of them and they were the age that it was like a young family. So whether it was like at the cottage, like literally the opening picture on my website back then was like my cousin's little guy in like a red and yellow, Life jacket with a pail and you would not even believe the number of people who emailed me asking like Do you own those props or do we have to provide our own and like they just loved everything about it It's like that was just on my car and I don't tell them that but like So any relatives that you have that you just like adore and want to photograph? Right now I'm introducing like a new style of family portrait. So I've asked again the same family. They're all now like teenagers To come in individually and let me shoot them because I know the teenagers don't want to be in the same room as the parents And all that stuff. So I'm starting a new style of editing individual people into one big image, mainly, mainly with the goal of doing that with like, I have a huge family portrait booked later in October, for a family of like 50 or 60 people. So I'm using, it's all going to be done in studio, but I'm bringing each individual family and photographing them. Same lighting set up, same camera set up and everything and then compositing them together. So again, I'm using people that I know who would be happy to come in and model for me and do it that way. So I would just say like use people that you love Or maybe also people who are your target client who would be willing to pay or their friends are your target clients or they are well known in the city, And just approach them and say, Hey, I have this new idea of a style of family portrait that I'd like to produce. And I'm wondering if you'd like to model for me in exchange for X, Y, and Z.

Raymond Hatfield:

I gotcha. that's a great tip. just using people who you know. I think that's where we all kind of start, right? cause it's comfortable. but I think when a lot of people are trying to grow their portfolio, I see them trying to do, like mini sessions. Right? Like, like family mini sessions. And these can be great. Obviously, because there's a being paid aspect to it, which is really exciting. yeah. For anybody who wants to start doing like their very first mini session. Do you have any tips for making it financially successful?

Hannah Marie:

I've never done a mini session.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, okay.

Hannah Marie:

I will say, I, so that's a lie. I've never done a mini session for my family and children photography brand.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay.

Hannah Marie:

I do do it for my headshot brand, which we haven't really touched on. KWHeadshots. ca Um, And within that it's, I call it a mini headshot marathon or a headshot mini marathon. And it's eight people or 12 people through the day and it includes hair and makeup. Um, and a 20 minute shoot. So 20 minutes of hair and makeup, 20 minutes of shooting or actually maybe 40 minutes of 30. Anyway, it's a bit more, uh, hair and makeup than shooting. So then I have time to proof with them and then they're done. And so within that, I include one digital because that is a digital format business.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, sure. Um, not product

Hannah Marie:

sales. And. Then if they want to buy more, they can buy two, get one free. And, typically, eventually I want the price to be per headshot around 200. Right now I'm pricing it around 150. It's funny how, like, psychology comes into that, because I know I could just say 200 and they would still buy it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. But, um So you're saying that it's on you. I'm talking about

Hannah Marie:

Sorry?

Raymond Hatfield:

You're saying that it's on you, uh, that's having a hard time raising the price. Um, yeah, that's very interesting.

Hannah Marie:

Oh, but if they don't want to buy it, like still now, like 12 years in, and I'm just like, but yeah, so it's, that mini session is 1. 99. And usually my base headshot session is 200 and does not include hair and makeup. So they see that it's a value of like. Oh, it's basically the same thing, but with hair and makeup, one 99 and then every headshot after that is one 50. So ideally they're buying at least two more and get one free. So each person should be averaging, About, like, five or six hundred for twenty minutes of streaming.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. For, families, like, if somebody wanted to do a family mini session, they have to have hair and makeup? Like, is that an expense that they'd have to, uh, to have? or could something like that be done through style guides beforehand, being emailed out?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, the more they put into it, the more they'll buy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course.

Hannah Marie:

And, if I were to do mini sessions. The people you should really chat to about this are Philip and Eileen Bloom. I am all about like, I can tell you everything that I've learned from them, but you should get it from the horse's mouth. That's why I have the portrait community because I acknowledge, like, I'm really good at what I do. Yes. But I have a lot of friends who are really good at what they do. And I might be able to teach you about it, but they are the ones actually doing it. I'm going to have

Raymond Hatfield:

to have them back on for sure, specifically to talk about, mini sessions. I love that, Ben. I love that.

Hannah Marie:

And the one thing I'll say about it is that they make it profitable by making it IPS. So, at that shoot, everybody books in an IPS. Like, no questions asked.

Raymond Hatfield:

In person sales for people. So it's all

Hannah Marie:

still product based. And so they make it very clear, I believe, it's X amount for the mini session. And they make it clear this. Does not include digitals and you'll have an eye, an ordering session after the fact where you can place your order. So the benefit I suppose is that, It is a lower sitting fee cost than regular.

Raymond Hatfield:

With the hopes of a higher sales.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Gotcha. I guess the only reason why I asked that question was because I went to your, your education site and I saw that you did, and it clearly says headshot mini sessions. I just, wrongly assumed that, uh, mini sessions could be interchangeable between, styles of photography. So, you still gave a great answer for sure. So, so thank you very much for that. I want to And I

Hannah Marie:

would say, uh, on that though, if people are only doing mini sessions to build their portfolios, I would say, only do mini sessions to build your portfolios if mini sessions is your end goal.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Hannah Marie:

Because the photos you get in a mini session are going to be totally different than what you take in an hour with a family. It often takes them some time to relax and get into it and get to know you. so the photos, you're kind of doing yourself a disservice because I don't think the photos that you'll get in a mini session are as engaging as you would, yeah, from a full session. So if your goal is to do full sessions, just do full model sessions.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's, uh, something that I wouldn't have thought of. That was very smart. That was very smart. Thank you. there's a lot of listeners out there who they know their cameras now, right? they've been focusing on it for the past, X amount of months. They know it. Okay. They've gone to their family. They've been like, Uncle Jake, I need you over here. We're getting some photos. Bring all the cousins out here. We're doing this. And now they're stuck. they've taken photos of everybody who they know. Do you have any tips, for those listeners? Should they be focusing on next if they want to start to build an actual business?

Hannah Marie:

Well, you'll probably hear this a lot if you go to a conference, like people do business with people that they know, trust and like. And so the no level is personally, but also like, that's why people take out advertisements and get known within their community because then your brand becomes known. So, I think the best way to get out and do business. Meet people is to just do that. Go out and meet them, be in the community, be active. I've been so focused the last like three or four years on building up my international brand particularly for educating and when I got into it, it was for wedding photography and then quickly switched over to families. like, this year while we're not traveling, like I'm not going to any conferences, my main focus is to literally become a local legend. Like, so that when people say like, Who did that headshot or who photographed your kids? They hear Hanna Marie and they just know who I am. They know my brand, but they also know me. one of the ways that I'm doing that, is, interestingly enough, just fell into my lap, I'm interviewing all the candidates, I think I mentioned this, for, our election that's coming up. So, not only are they meeting me, And I'm serving them. I'm helping them. I'm giving them a platform. They're getting over a thousand views within 12 hours sometimes. where like the leadership, or the electoral debates are getting like 202 weeks. So, I'm like slaughtering all of it. And then they can share it and it's just Facebook Live, like inviting them over for tea. So, that's networking me with all All of the mover and shakers in my city, whether they get elected or not, they're the ones that are known in their neighborhood. And i'm doing that by serving them and then also while people are watching these interviews, they get to know me And they get to see that i'm asking things that they care about I'm building trust with the audience this whole time. And so they're getting to know the candidate, but they're also getting to know me. And of course when we talk about like small businesses uptown Waterloo and how that's affecting people, I'm talking about, Oh, I, that's where my studio is. I'm a family portrait photographer. And then they asked me questions about that. Like how is this affecting you? And then suddenly we're talking about my business to an audience of a thousand people that is their audience because they're sharing it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So just,

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, just ways to get out there in front of people and, to become known. I just joined the, chamber of commerce. Primarily because of the headshot side of things, but through the headshot side of things, I'll introduce them to the family brand as well because they're coming to the same studio. They're seeing the portraits up on the walls and then they realize, Oh, she does a lot more than just headshots.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Hannah Marie:

So literally just becoming known in your community, whether that's, um I know for kids, there's like one high end children's clothing store that is uptown, like right near me. And they're. Within the same business improvement area that I am, and so I could go there and introduce myself to the owner and say, Hey, I'm a local business owner, too. I'd love to grab coffee with you sometime and just chat business.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Hannah Marie:

And, Again, with the networking to serve, serve, and then ask, usually by the time you've served somebody twice, they say, you know what, you've done so much for us, like, what can we do for you? And they put it back on you. And then you can know what you want to ask them, whether that's like, whatever it is.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, we just put our business cards on their, on their desk.

Hannah Marie:

Business cards, or, honestly, like one of the good ones for kid's stores is, well, would I be able to use some of the toys in here as props in a shoot, and then I can actually Once I've done that shoot, have permission from the parents first. print a canvas of that and put it up in the store. And it has your logo on it, right? So things like that to get out in front of the, uh, Your audience and also network with the people who also work with your people.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love it. That's a great tip That's a great tip Definitely, you're right. Just getting out and being known what's that phrase? It's not what you know, it's who you know, and It's just totally true, and that just confirms it right there. I want to kind of switch gears here, because we didn't really talk about this, but having been following you for a while and doing some research, I know that you took a sabbatical from being a talker. Can I just say

Hannah Marie:

one more thing before we go to the sabbatical? Yeah. Also, you have to be confident in your pricing. And your business structure. if people contact you and you're like thinking, Oh, they're probably going to hire somebody else. I just speak to people as though they've already hired me. Like the instant I get an email from somebody, I call them and they're shocked that I'm calling them, but I'm like, I know that they're sitting at their computer right now specifically thinking about hiring a photographer. So I'm not interrupting dinner. I'm not interrupting a business meeting. And so I get them on the phone. I'm like, hi, this is Hannah Marie from KW headshots are from Hannah Marie photography. And then I just ask them a bunch of questions and like build that relationship straight away because I'm confident in wanting to serve them versus like, are they going to hire me? And like, am I going to get money from this?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. So that's an important mindset shift.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, so in trying to book your first clients, you need to be confident in what you're offering.

Raymond Hatfield:

I know a lot of times, it's hard and, cause I struggled with this. I know if I struggled with it, a lot of other people struggled with it as well. That, getting on the phone can, I don't know what it is. There's that, I don't know if it's cause of my age and, growing up. It's like all we do is, is just text. But there's something about that phone call, and I guess it's just the fear of rejection. that can be so hard. But. I will say that I spent some time to work on this to where now if a client calls, I know exactly what I want to say and having that confidence, like you said, really does help because suddenly it's not like, so are we going to do this? Or, what's the point of this call? You have an end goal and you can work your way to it. It's very simple.

Hannah Marie:

And like, yeah, and like to have, a fear of rejection. It's like they've already emailed you. They've seen your work and they're clearly, they've already asked to hire you. Yeah. It's not like a cold call. Right. most of the time that people will hire the first person they hear back from, because it's just the way it works.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I've booked many weddings simply because I was the, first photographer to suggest actually meeting in person and like, Hey, let's, let's have a coffee instead of, well, let's just take care of this over email. Yeah. Um, I was at

Hannah Marie:

The Global Leadership Summit. Do you know that event?

Raymond Hatfield:

I do not.

Hannah Marie:

It happens every year and it's brilliant. it's actually happening again in October sometime. But, uh, people like Simon Sinek, Angela Ahrens from Apple, like huge business people coming and talking for a whole day. And I don't recall who it was, but they were talking about organizational structure and like how to save time within your business. And one of them was just identifying like, If you're emailing back a thousand times and not getting anywhere, it's because that conversation should have been had either around a board meeting or over the phone. If you're in a board meeting and you're like mindless and like texting other people and like trying to email while you're there, the conversations that are taking place there should just happen over email. So being clear about like, how much conversation has to happen and should this be an email or should this be a phone call? And I think that initial contact, they have so many questions initially and they want to know that they can like you and trust you. Wow. The best way to do that is over the phone because otherwise you're emailing them for like a week or two trying to book them in and by then it's like who knows who else got to them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, of course. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's really something to think to the leadership summit. It's so good. Where is it at?

Hannah Marie:

it's broadcast from maybe Chicago, I want to say, I don't know.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you don't, you don't physically go here, you can watch it

Hannah Marie:

online? Yeah, yeah, uh, I suppose you could watch it online, but a lot of

Raymond Hatfield:

cities post it

Hannah Marie:

somewhere. Ah,

Raymond Hatfield:

I see. So it's broadcast

Hannah Marie:

live, it's amazing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Global Leadership Summit. The Global Leadership Summit, yeah. I'm going to look that up, that's really interesting. It's so great. Okay, so, I mentioned that. So the sabbatical. Yes. So, I didn't mention this really in the interview or anything, but I, I know this from, from doing my research on you that you took a sabbatical from your photography job, right? I'm guessing that you were getting overwhelmed and you wanted to know more about business. Okay. I heard the, very personal story that you shared on CreativeLive, which I will link to also in the show notes that everybody can check out. I want to know, in that year that you took off from photography, one, was your goal, to run, to operate a better business? Was that it? A more efficient business? Mm hmm. Yeah. And then the second part of the question is, was there a specific lesson that you learned that made a huge impact on your success now? Mm

Hannah Marie:

hmm. Well, like you said, There's a very personal story that I share the very short version of that is that I lost six people close to me within a year within 11 months. and it was very overwhelming and I literally couldn't even get through. I couldn't even start the grieving process before somebody else died. Like it was just insane. and that was, I think, in my second year of business or something. And because of that, I, I was caught in this grieving depression and I was able to push through enough to show up and do the job and do it with grace and a smile on my face. But I literally gave everything of myself to that and had nothing else to give. And so I couldn't edit. I would just sit there and just like be bawling my eyes out because at that point it was a digital, a digital product that I was delivering. And, I thought that I had to edit like, 800 to a thousand pictures for every wedding and it was just so overwhelming because I was so far behind like each wedding I didn't know how to communicate. I didn't have an emergency procedure set up I had no idea how to tell them like I know this sounds insane, but literally like We just had three deaths in January. Like it was like every weekend I was pushing engagement shoots because it was like, okay, so somebody else died and somebody else died. And at a certain point it's like, do they believe me? It's just insane. Um, so as a result of that, like I was never able to get past that hump of like that backlog of editing. It was before the days of outsourcing. And it was just so overwhelming and so, hard on my spirit because it was the last thing that I wanted to do. I see some of these stories in the media about, wedding photographers, like who aren't returning calls and they're not returning pictures. And I just like, my heart breaks for them. Cause I'm like, It might be a scam, but it could very well be they're overwhelmed with something in life and have no idea how to communicate it. And, I know there was one in Toronto and it wasn't like a big media thing or anything like that. They were very open about what was going on, but, I just reached out to them and I was like, girl, like I've been there. Like if you need to talk, let's do that. So when I took my sabbatical, it was partially just to give myself the breathing space. Like I felt like I needed a year just to get caught up on editing and like, To repair those relationships, I reached out to all the brides and grooms who I felt like I had really let down and said, that was not my intention at all. I'd like to repair this with you. So if they had spent like 3, 000 on their wedding photography for digital. I said, I'm now providing product and, I'd like to give you the full amount that you paid me back as product, like whatever, like you don't have to pay taxes or anything, like it's all, yeah, so, um, yeah, so that year really was just about, getting back on top of things. Allowing myself that time and space to just focus on like getting it right with my clients and studying Different business structures that would suit me better because that like editing 800 pictures is just like insane I don't even know how I did that for eight years It was I guess for six years at that point and that's when I figured out That you can actually do IPS I'd never really heard of anybody doing that in my area. And I was like, wow, that's amazing. And so I studied on creative live. I was on like creative live. nonstop and saw some really incredible classes about that and started to implement the lessons that I'd been learning and, reopened. It was actually ended up being two years off. I had intended for it to be one year, but halfway through that first year, I got sick with mono for 11 months. So it was just like,

Raymond Hatfield:

what a period of your life, man. Wow.

Hannah Marie:

Well, it was actually a blessing in disguise because had I not taken the sabbatical, I would have, I felt ill, like July, it was like dead wedding season. And I would have just had to return money. It would have been crazy. So I just see it as like God taking care of me and being like, you need to not pick anything this year. and then it was the next summer that I was finally better. and I actually think that it was that last six months that I was like going hard on creative live. And I think I needed that full two years completely away from the digital mindset in order to realize like, okay. Okay, there is worth here and I can do this because I think it can be so hard to make that shift If you're so close in it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, yeah,

Hannah Marie:

like it's just a different mentality So I really valued that so I think to answer your question Number two, probably like all the scripts that I learned and just knowing, like if I have my products structured, my collections structured in the right way, it'll just funnel them in to the collections that I want them to be in that are most profitable for me. So that lesson of knowing how to price things, knowing how to structure your. Your collections and being confident in that. Like I remember the first person who saw it, she was like, This is really expensive. And I was like, I know, right? These products are incredible. And just having the confidence to, to have, to say that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, yeah. Turning it around from a negative to a, you're going to be blown away.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, like you're not going to go into Chanel and like see a handbag for 6, 000 and like make a comment about like, wow, this is really expensive and have a salesperson say, I know I have no, no idea how people pay this,

Raymond Hatfield:

like,

Hannah Marie:

they're just like all about the experience.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's, that's good. That's good. when it comes to, to the experience, do you have any, I don't want to say quick tips cause I know that there's no such thing as like a really quick tip, but what's something that like an absolute, beginner, like really like probably hasn't even filed for any sort of business, structure at all. Like what is something that they can do just to elevate their business experience or client experience rather?

Hannah Marie:

I think making an experience like what I mentioned about how to coach them when shooting. It's not like, I'm not coaching them like, okay, now look at each other and gaze into each other's eyes. I'm asking them questions that trigger that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Hannah Marie:

and I'm creating that experience in the shoot. in terms of product sale. Like the minute you go to my website, you see product when I'm answering, do you give digitals? I'm talking about product, like everywhere it's talking about product. So setting them up for that. I'm only going to attract the people who want product. I'm not going to attract anyone who just wants digitals. and then within that experience, I guess my experience is so painted by product that I can't really answer that without going into it. But having, a styling consultation, which you could also do if you're not doing product, but ensuring that like they feel well taken care of in terms of what they're going to wear and knowing that they'll look amazing and emailing them the day after their styling consult and being like, I can't get that sweater that you're going to wear out of my head. It's absolutely gorgeous. You're going to look amazing. And like confirming that for them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Um,

Hannah Marie:

I don't do that for myself, even when I have a photo shoot booked. As someone in it and the morning of I'm just like ripping through my closet, hating everything. And it's stressful. So I want, I don't want them to have that stress associated with my business. So doing everything that I can to remove every pain point, to ensure that they'll have a good experience. And also at my, my styling consults, because I do do product. It's in their home and I say, now, where are you thinking of hanging these things because I want to make sure absolutely, um, there's actually an article in shutter magazine from a couple of years ago that I did about how to deliver a high end experience without owning a studio. So you can just Google like shutter magazine, Hannah Marie, and you should find it there. But, um, Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

You have so many great resources.

Hannah Marie:

Within that, like I don't want to plan a whole wardrobe around something that's not going to match their home.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Of course. They're not

Hannah Marie:

going to hang the pictures.

Raymond Hatfield:

That makes sense. That makes sense. So it all

Hannah Marie:

has to blend.

Raymond Hatfield:

So that was a lot for new people. Yeah. You know, you know what? I'm just thinking, I mean, you've given me so many things to think about. Even as somebody who's been doing this for a few years, there's always somewhere where you can make, the client experience a little bit better. Right. For new photographers, you are obviously, an educator for photographers, even if it's more for, established photographers. I want to know, if there's any, bad information that you hear that's, that keeps being taught to photographers that you think that maybe they should just ignore.

Hannah Marie:

Honestly, like, there's so many ways to be successful.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Hannah Marie:

um, and we Wait,

Raymond Hatfield:

is that the bad information?

Hannah Marie:

Well, I think the bad information is like hearing people bash other photographers who are successful.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, I see. It's

Hannah Marie:

like I sure I teach IPS and product sales and I've found like my my jive there But there are other photographers who are super successful who don't do any product

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Hannah Marie:

so like to go into it with the mentality that like I have to do it the way that they're doing it or I have to do like I was chatting with somebody the other day and She was saying Asking like all about families and children's photography and then she made a comment Like I just hate working with kids and I said, so why are you wanting to offer this and she said well I was told to diversify like I'm shooting weddings and I was told that I should be shooting other stuff and I was like, why? Like do what you love like figure out what you want to shoot and what you love and the business structure that you love and Then do it. So, I As much as I love working with kids and doing the product stuff, I launched KW headshots. back in the spring and I'm loving that like I love that it's like they call I book them in they come in I proof with them that day and by the time they get home they have their pictures done

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, like

Hannah Marie:

I love that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Hannah Marie:

and I can't do that with families because it's product so i'm almost on the verge of like how much energy do I want to put into my kids and families? Like maybe I want to focus all on headshots and to give yourself permission to evolve through the years. And, when I got into educating, I was known as a wedding photographer and now I'm known for children. And maybe in three years, I'll be known for headshots. Like allow yourself to just grow and do what you love.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think, hearing your journey is really going to speak to a lot of people in hearing what you said there. That, that there's more than just one path of success. And I know that, that alone, there's more than one path to success is the reason why I really wanted to start this podcast. Because I knew that. I just didn't have the proof to back it up. And having on world class photographers come onto the podcast and chat to me about their success just proves it even more. And I mean, listeners can go back and hear so many interviews of people who, worked hard for 20 years until something picked up and then it became successful or, uh, They've just defined their own version of success, you know, and I, I thank you for sharing that because that, I think it gets lost a lot, for beginners and just hearing that is, is really going to help them out. Um, when it comes to the side of like actual photography, the actual photos, is there anything that you see is like a sign of just like a total amateur, photographer when it comes to photographing either kids or families? does that little laugh mean that there's a lot of things?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people out there who like. Oh, you're a photographer. Me too. And then they show me their pictures and they're asking me what I think. And I'm like, do you want me to be honest?

Raymond Hatfield:

Um, I

Hannah Marie:

mean like cutting off limbs, cutting off toes, cutting off at like your knees or your hips. Like there's just some areas that you don't want to chop people off in the frame, but so many, I see, and it's like a stunning image and then like their feet are cut off at the ankles. It's like, why? Like, just zoom out that slightest little bit. probably, like, poor lighting. It might be a great facial expression, but the lighting is off. or a mixed of lighting, like, right now, I'm guessing that you have window light and a light on somewhere else.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, I have two little, uh, like, garage clamp lights that are right in front of my computer, and then my window is closed right there. and then just the, uh, but anyway, that, that's kind of what I modeled it on, obviously. Yeah.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, because, just seeing like yellow light from one side and blue light from another or things like that. not paying attention to the lighting because really as photographers, like that's what we're capturing. We're capturing the light. and that's the difference between like a stunning image and one that's really cool, but, not quite there. And I will say, for clients, they can tell the difference between a bad photograph and a good one. Clients cannot tell the difference between a good one and an excellent one.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a great distinction.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. And, we can be so hard on ourselves and sometimes I'm just like, am I really the person they want to hire for their headshots? But like, we're like, no matter where you get, you're always going to be critical of your own work and that's what makes you grow. But, yeah, like your clients don't know the difference between good and excellent. They just know the difference between bad and good. And really the best thing that you can do to build your business is, Reply like as quickly as you humanly can for every email because a lot of artists don't do that And that's where the frustration comes in going back to the photographers. We heard about that sometimes are in the media for being called frauds or whatever Imagine if they just emailed their clients and said straight off the bat like hey I had intended to have it done by this time for whatever reason. I'm not going to have it for another four months. I'm so sorry. Here's what I can do to make this up to you. that would be all they need. They just need to know what to expect. So, I know that's kind of off target from what you were asking, but I think that people need to hear that. Like the best thing you can do for your business is just communicate with people. But I think like the poor lighting and cutting off at the wrong places is like a sure tell

Raymond Hatfield:

Or I

Hannah Marie:

mean like the picture that I took of the little kid They were literally on a dining room table with like a blanket under them And I wanted like that cute butt shot, but the kid like stuck his legs out And he was just kind of like sprawled out on the table and I was focused literally on the foot

Raymond Hatfield:

Just

Hannah Marie:

focusing on like what you want to be in focus if their face is in focus It should be the eyes or if their face is in the photo. It should be their eyes like If it's a picture of the butt, don't go for the butthole. Don't show, don't like go to a buttholes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, don't

Hannah Marie:

do that.

Raymond Hatfield:

We're not in the buttholes. I got it, I got it.

Hannah Marie:

Have you said butthole this many times on a podcast? Uh,

Raymond Hatfield:

I'd have to ask the listeners, uh, but I'm pretty confident the answer's no. Pretty confident the answer's no. This is, this is definitely going to go down in the history books for sure. I want to know if you had to start over again today, right? You were wakeboarding, you broke your leg, you were given that camera, what would you do? To get to where you are today, but faster

Hannah Marie:

faster. I would hire a coach

Raymond Hatfield:

Down

Hannah Marie:

hands down. Okay, so then

Raymond Hatfield:

real quick follow up question as somebody who is where you are today? what is it that you would hope to get most out of that coach?

Hannah Marie:

Well, I mean, they could have told me how terrible that picture was.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So just honest feedback.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. Critiquing your work. explaining why, like how can I make this specific kind of a shoot more improved? you can also get that feedback at print competition. That's the other thing I would do. But in terms of refining my business and understanding how to run it, Personal, like one on one business coach can come in and hear, like, I do coaching and I don't push my business structure on other people. I say, cause I've done the digital and I've done product. I've done the transition. So if people want to transition to it, I can do that. But, I actually first asked them like, what is your end goal in life? Like, what do you want your day to day life to look like? Because you could take me. And when I was a wedding photographer, I charged, Higher prices, but only accepted maybe 15 a year. You look at Michael Anthony. and I think he's pushing out, like, he still had 50 weddings between now and December, right? Like I have no interest in that at all. Like, um, but he loves it. Like he thrives on that. And so to just sit down and have that conversation about what do you want your business to look like ideally? what do you want your life to look like? And. Design a business that actually complements that because I think when you can design a business that complements that you're going to love it and you're going to have more of a piece about you and your clients will see that and be drawn to that. So, just have a sense of that and a coach can help you figure that out or even help you see like, um, I've had my clients. Coaching clients, like, I'll look at their pictures, like I mentioned, and see, like, their children's portraits are so engaging, and their wedding ones just totally fall flat.

Raymond Hatfield:

And

Hannah Marie:

having someone experienced give them permission to say, like, just focus on this. Like, this is where you want your attention to be.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's important. Because everybody hears, oh, well, you gotta diversify, so people think you don't have to. Yeah. Yeah. And even

Hannah Marie:

right now, like, I realize, In terms of marketing, what I want to be marketing right now, like I was in weddings for so long that, I realized I needed to, relearn how to market to a new clientele. because I don't have the wedding people coming in every year and then naturally coming in as family portraits now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Hannah Marie:

Now I have a business coach for marketing, you know, like is it somebody who

Raymond Hatfield:

focuses on photography, marketing, or just marketing in general? Yeah,

Hannah Marie:

a photographer. Yeah, a good friend of mine.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is so cool. She's like the queen of marketing. I'm like, Do you want to share who it is? Or is that someone who you're Yeah, Megan Tutero. Oh, She's awesome. I just had her on the podcast, uh, three weeks ago. Yeah, it's

Hannah Marie:

brilliant. I'm just like, I need more of your knowledge. Yeah. So she does, I'm not doing it one on one. I'm doing it as like a marketing mastermind. So there's five of us, six, including her and her husband. or no, maybe seven, including them. And we just meet, twice a month online and she gives us like homework. And I love that. Like I can give myself like, okay, I'm going to do this. But I need that person like following up with me like on my butt. Like did you do so? Um, Actually september was like a networking month for us and I I pretty much killed it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I was going to say, here you are getting thousands of views on your local Yeah. No, that's great. That's great. Hannah, I've asked you so many questions today and you have, shared your heart out today and everything that you shared was absolutely incredible. Is there anything that I didn't ask you today that you want to make sure that the listeners, know and understand?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, actually, so speaking, I have two things. Speaking specifically to very beginners and people who might not have a big business organization set up yet in terms of the business side. something like 17 hats. Something that you can plug into early on, it has such a low entry point and being organized from day one will really help you to maintain that throughout. It also helps you with communication because, like I said, the more clearly you communicate with people, the better they feel. And, a lot of my emails, once they're already booked, are automated to go out. And the quote is as well. So something like that, uh, getting, that's something that I wish existed back when I started, because I totally have this like file in my office of like papers that I can go through for contracts and it's crazy.

Raymond Hatfield:

I got this one. It's ridiculous. It's like, what do I even have?

Hannah Marie:

Like I used to email them to them. They'd have to print it out and fill it out and mail it back. And it's

Raymond Hatfield:

like,

Hannah Marie:

Oh, I'll give you 14 days to return this. Otherwise I'll release your date. Now it's like, you have 24 hours to return this. Otherwise I'll release your date. Like don't hold dates without money. No questions asked. Like that's going to be a memorable

Raymond Hatfield:

quote for this episode.

Hannah Marie:

Yeah. And, the second thing is when you are ready to have a website, like. Again, consider hiring someone who knows what they're doing. So one of the things that I offer in my coaching is what I call, my website collaboration. So I use show it, we get a template that already exists. And I've already like chatted with the people about the brand that they want to portray, whether it's like fun and funky or classic and timeless. And I have a pretty good sense of their templates. And I can just pull up the ones that I think are ideal. And we'll choose one of those. And in eight hours, We can have a full website up and going and that's over like either two hours a week for a month or two Two hours Tuesday two hours Thursday it for two weeks in a row and it's done And so what I help them with that is you could easily go to show it on your own But people way over talk on their websites.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Hannah Marie:

and the more words that are there The less people read and most of the time it's like telling you about yourself or telling your client about yourself but that's kind of like going to a networking thing and somebody's saying like what do you do tell me about your business and then you just talk about yourself the whole time the

Raymond Hatfield:

whole time Yeah, nobody wants to be

Hannah Marie:

like the words and i've done this and i've done that and I was published here and they're just like glazing over it's the same with our websites. Like we need to make them about the client. So I think You Newer photographers getting established having a really beautiful website that speaks to the heart of their client you have to understand who the client is and how to speak to them and have that to engage them because if you don't have that Even if people like your pictures, they might be less likely to contact you because you're coming across as less professional So yeah, have a great website that connects with your client and if you want to do it in eight hours I can help you with it

Raymond Hatfield:

and have a CRM like 17 hats, which I personally use I don't use nearly to its full potential and, Hannah, like I said, before we even got on this call, I'm definitely gonna to reach out and get some help, just kind of putting everything together. Cause like you said, there is so many things that, within 17 hats, it, it'd be nice to actually utilize them all and help run my own business more efficiently and automate more things. So that's

Hannah Marie:

great. So for those who didn't hear that conversation, I also have what I call like a 17 hats, Kickstarter or a boot camp and that's also eight hours just to help you like get that foundation going because it can be a little overwhelming

Raymond Hatfield:

And that's the reason why I need help. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Hannah you've shared a bunch you you gave extra tips. How can the listeners find you online?

Hannah Marie:

Yeah, well, my education website is education dot Hannah Marie dot CA and you'll link to that On Facebook, I have the portrait community. So if you're a portrait photographer or even engagement portraits, anything like that, you can find me, just look up facebook. com slash group slash the portrait community, or just search it on Facebook. And, I do live interviews there with different photographers in the community every month. Last month, we were talking about mental health. And Instagram, I'm at HannahMariePhotographer.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect! Well, Hannah, like you said, I will absolutely link to everything in the show notes so that the listeners can find you. Again, I thank you so much for coming on as we went way over the scheduled 45 minutes. But again, I truly appreciate everything was just great chatting to you.

Hannah Marie:

Perfect. Thanks for having me. It's been fun.

Raymond Hatfield:

Come join more than 6, 000 fellow listeners of the podcast over in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community to learn and grow your skills by heading over to beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group right now. Thanks again so much for tuning into today's episode. Until next week, remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.