The Beginner Photography Podcast

516: Alex Bogaard: Master Creative Control To Capture More Emotional Images

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Alex Bogaard, an intrepid photographer who draws parallels between photography and raising children, where opinions are abundant, but the emotional connection is key. Explore Alex's insights on balancing artistic integrity and commercial demands, mastering preparation and flexibility on photography trips, and deriving joy from both the journey and the final image.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Embrace the Journey Over Results: Focus on the experiences and practice rather than just the final images to avoid disappointment and redefine success.
  • Emotional Resonance Matters: A successful photo evokes an emotional response in you, regardless of its technical perfection.
  • Adaptability is Key: Always have a vision, but stay flexible to adapt to nature’s unpredictability and embrace what it offers.
  • Personal Connection to Work: Ensure your photography maintains a personal connection; avoid producing work solely for commercial success.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Evaluate Emotional Impact: Review your portfolio and identify images that evoke strong emotions.Compare those with technically perfect but emotionally flat photos to understand your artistic preferences.
  2. Prepare for Photographic Trips: Create a shot list and vision for your next outing. Stay open to changes and ready to capture unexpected moments, focusing on the journey.
  3. Enhance Flexibility: Practice shooting in different weather conditions and at various times of the day. Learn to adapt your techniques to the environment, using natural light and surroundings creatively.
  4. Engage in Constructive Critiques: Join photography groups or forums to receive and give feedback. Attend workshops where peer reviews are part of the learning process to refine your skills based on constructive criticism.
  5. Maintain Personal Connection: Regularly revisit the reasons why you love photography and infuse that passion into your work. Ensure each project or shoot aligns with your personal vision rather than solely commercial demands.

RESOURCES:
Visit Alex Bogaard's Website - https://alexbogaard.com/
Follow Alex Bogaard on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/alexbogaard/

Grab your free 52 Lightroom Presets at
http://freephotographypresets.com/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Alex Bogaard:

Learn to be good at capturing what you want to capture in the frame, not in post. Get skilled at, capturing it all there. If it's not in the lens, if it's not in the frame, it isn't going to be the mentality, versus, okay, I'm generally going to grab an image that captures the overall scene, let's just say, but then in post op, I'm going to start cropping and doing all this stuff to try to, to get it to exactly where I want to. And every time we do that, I would do this. I'm losing information. I'm losing data. So learning to take the time to think about all those components while you're taking the shot.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host Raymond Hadfield. And today we're chatting with landscape and wildlife photographer Alex Bogard about why the emotional impact of your photo matters more than technical perfection. But first, the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by Cloudspot. With Cloudspot, you can impress your clients with beautiful galleries. That are easy to view share and download on any device You can control image size at a watermark and of course download limits as well So go ahead and grab your free forever account over at deliver photos comm and only upgrade when you are ready So today's guest Alex has been to some pretty incredible locations to photograph, you know much of the beauty that makes up our world Photographing landscapes in nature can be pretty challenging as you can prepare for months, for a trip and weather can put a quick and unexpected stop to your plans or, if you're photographing wildlife, animals could just decide not to come out. So I chat with Alex about dealing with those difficult situations that you may find yourself in, how he builds a shot step by step. And I really think that you're gonna like his approach to building a shot from background to foreground. And creating emotional connection with the subjects he photographs. There's a lot here, so let's go ahead and get on into this interview with Alex Bogart. Alex, I really want to know when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Alex Bogaard:

Well, let's start with the opening thought, which is pretty much most of my photography is paired with traveling, and I've been doing that for Since a very young age, my parents, would take us on these fairly exotic trips. And so examples of that, when I was six, we went on our first of four trans Sahara expeditions and we crossed the Sahara desert, four consecutive years in a row. And as we were going through these journeys, My father would document those travels with photography and film. so I've been around that my whole time and my love of travel and getting into really remote places, getting into tough to get places has stayed with me my whole life. And so I don't do that nearly as often as I'd like to, but every opportunity I have, I do. And when you're out there, often I'm with alone or I'm with one other person. And if I'm with one other person, we'll have the same feeling, which is what we're looking at is just amazing. Most people will never see this. How can we capture this? So when we come back home, we have a memory of that. Right. and so that that's been with me since. since the year. So I've, in the sense of being a photographer, I've been doing it at that level, just like most people do. They go somewhere, they enjoy where they're at. They take snaps with their phones or their small cameras and so on and so forth. I've been doing the same thing for as long as I can remember, basically.

Raymond Hatfield:

So when does it get to the point because, you know, I think we can all, relate to having, family photos growing up and, taking photos on vacation, but do more than that. So like, when did you think that you wanted to pick up a camera and that you wanted to do the same thing and document your travels?

Alex Bogaard:

I can't tell you that it was a specific moment where all of a sudden I realized, Oh, this is what I want to do. what I noticed. is, well, first off, when you transition from growing up to, you know, then taking your own life, all of a sudden, the trips you're going on are the ones you've actually planned. As opposed to the ones you went on, right? Because mom and dad said, this is what you were going to and so one of the things I noticed over time is I was just mechanically grabbed, my photo equipment with me. And at the time it was very modest, right? It wasn't, I didn't have any fancy gear. I didn't have any expensive lenses. but I was grabbing it all the time anyway. And then when we were on location, I was So I was making the effort of putting it in the bag and around my neck and having it available. and then what happens just as you do, as one does this, and as I would essentially keep taking photographs, essentially, what I'm doing is I'm practicing. And every once in a while, when you practice something, you come up with something that's, ooh, that's kind of nice. That's a little different. And in the way I was approaching it, there was no scale in this. I didn't know, well, this is the shot I want to aim for, and I'm here. And how do I get from here? There was none of that, right? It was these incremental steps where, I would go, I like this better than the previous one, but I'm not exactly sure why yet. And you keep sort of eating away at that and playing away at that.

Raymond Hatfield:

So then let me ask, was photography self taught for you?

Alex Bogaard:

for me, it's self taught until 2018. And in 2018, I went and took part in what I would call a basically a photography masterclass. And I stumbled into it. Um, I was at an auction. This thing was presented as an auction item and my wife is the next to me. She says you really enjoy photography Go once you participate. So anyway, I ended up getting the thing and when I got home I started reading the details of this and I went oh my lord. What did I just do? What did I just buy and what they were describing is essentially you're gonna spend a week in Jackson Hole And you're going to go through a photography masterclass and the faculty, there are gonna be 13 faculty present and they are Nat Geo editors, outdoor magazine editors, photographers from, Red Bull and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, right? I mean, it was completely and utterly

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Bogaard:

and again, I'm thinking of my photography as, look, I'm just some Joe off the street here. I don't, have any necessarily specific as far as I preserved as I perceived, right. So I called him up and I said, I think I might've made a mistake. I don't know that I belong in the room. And the guy says, well, how's your photography? And I said, I don't even know how to answer that. I like it. And my media family says, yeah, it's nice, but that's about as far as I go. And then I said to him, here's what I can tell you. I will be the guy who will put a backpack on, put 40 pounds of camera gear on it, and Put skins on his skis and go hike and go uphill up a mountain to go find the shot. And he said, you'll fit right in. So I went and I walked into a room and it was really evident very quickly that I was the only person in the room who was not either already making a living with photography or trying to make a living with photography. And people come up and go say, well, what's your portfolio? And I went, I don't have a portfolio. Well, what about your website? I go, I don't have a website. And then they would sort of. That hair of I don't know why you're here. Look, and they, you know, they would go about their business basically but the most Useful experience out of that is that every day we would have critiques So we would go out and shoot every day You would listen and learn from the faculty that was teaching throughout the day and then we go shoot and then we'd have What was called a critique and every day we had to submit three photographs that we had taken that day And they would be put up on these enormous screens. Now, remember, the biggest I've ever seen a picture is a 15 inch monitor, right? All of a sudden, this thing is eight by eight, 12 by eight. I mean, it's an enormous screen and we're in an auditorium and these pictures come up. And I thought I'm going to get destroyed by the faculty. They are going to rip myself apart. And they didn't. And it didn't happen. And all of a sudden, I was like, and then I was watching other people's work, because before that I hadn't seen anybody else's work. And I realized, you know, I'm actually, there's some parity here. I'm not where I think I am, right? And I'm, I'm somewhere else. And then I learned from the feedback they were giving others and the feedback they were giving me. And all of a sudden I was like, okay, I see a path now to, there's a difference between, you know, you just teach yourself. Maybe there's some Aurora ability, but there's a difference between that and then getting to some place where. you actually stop somebody in their tracks with an image, right? Somebody stops and goes, I want it. I want to know more about that. That's a whole other level. And that's what ignited my desire to work at it and be much more deliberate with it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. What a, uh, you know, trial by fire right there. That is wild. what was some of the feedback that you were getting?

Alex Bogaard:

So, probably the two biggest lessons. I got. And this is in the context I should, set the stage properly in the context of landscape photography. So the feedback one was you build the image from the background forward, which I had not thought of before. I would see a landscape, but not really see it in these layers, foreground, middle ground, background. And realizing that if you build from the back, the framing of the picture changes. And now it just feels different. It forces you to, or it forces me to think about all of the elements from background all the way to foreground, right? So that's one. My second lesson is to think of a landscape as a stage. And you can look at the stage and go say, that's a beautiful stage. Click. But if you can act to add an actor in that stage. Some interaction in it, whether it's an animal, whether it's a building, whether it's a cloud formation, whether something else interacting with that landscape, all of a sudden, it's still the same landscape, but it's a little different. there's a story in it. It can express. It can express an environment. It can express scale. You can use those things to express scale. I got to practice, for example, looking at a photograph that had, you know, mountain range in the background. I think there's one we sent to you that mountain range in the background and lake in the foreground, and there's a little duck coming across it, right? The duck is minuscule in the context of the overall thing. And I learned that if I put my finger on that duck and pretended it wasn't there, is the image the same? And then put it back and do this routine. I discovered to me, it just added this whole other layer to it. So that was number two. And then number three, I learned particularly with wildlife photography is where to place or where not to place the horizon. Didn't really know that

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I, I'm not familiar actually.

Alex Bogaard:

so the horizon, depending on this setting, you've got another example of that, in what we submitted to you. So you've got a shot of a, of a grizzly with a, Initially, when I would approach wildlife, I'd say, okay, well, here's the bear or here's the horse or here's the whatever, right? Put Put it in the frame and snap the shot. And again, now it's building the image from the foreground and kind of ignoring the background, right? the horizon can set a very stark line. It's a line across the picture frame and the horizon going through the head. Of an animal or a subject could be a person, right? not ideal. So then you go to exploring with or what happens if you had lowered yourself? What happened if you had, gone up to move the horizon around the subject? So it doesn't interfere with it. So I learned that And the one more was. to become learn to be good at capturing what you want to capture in the frame, not in post,

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Alex Bogaard:

right? Get skilled at, capturing it all there. If it's not in the lens, if it's not in the frame, it isn't going to be the mentality, right? Versus, okay, I'm generally going to grab. An image that captures the overall scene, let's just say, but then in post op, I'm going to start cropping and doing all this stuff to try to, to get it to exactly where I want to. and I used to do that a fair amount, not knowing any better. and every time we do that, I would do this. I'm essentially cutting off sections. I'm losing information. I'm losing data, right? Which if you're going to see, look at something on a laptop is one thing. If you're going to one day want to print something, this size becomes really material. So learning to, take the time to think about all those components while you're taking the shot. So that was probably the four biggest takeaways that particular experience.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. So, I think that everybody has this idea that. Especially because most like, say workshops or masterclasses in this, instance are quite an investment that people are hoping that when they go through it, they have a total transformation and come out an entirely different photographer. And having gone to workshops myself, I don't think that I've ever experienced that, but it sounds like that's exactly what you experienced.

Alex Bogaard:

and I did, and I think my transformation was, you know, First off, personally, I never thought my stuff was any good, which is why I didn't show it to anybody, right? I just, you know, you open up any magazine and you look at pictures and you go, these are just jaw dropping. what am I going to show my stuff for? Right? And then sort of realizing that actually you can hang with the group I was with. That was my frame of reference, but there were 30 students in the class. So we would look at every day 30 students worth times three pictures a day. For seven days. That's, that's a lot of imagery and they're picking their best, right? Then we're not picking out the ones we, they pick the best three of every day to submit. This is that individual's saying, this is my best product for today. What do you think? and so that, that gave me a basis to say, where am I? and then also learning that, and this happened a lot on that trip, there might be four or five of us literally standing shoulder to shoulder. Which for me is not my scene, right? But because I like the remote places, all of a sudden, if I've got you on my shoulder with a lens next to him, I'm like, Oh, you know, but yet in theory, you would say the pictures will be the same.

Raymond Hatfield:

You could think that.

Alex Bogaard:

We both shot the same range, the same river bend, the same whatever, right? And yet they're not. And that's fascinating to me. What is it that makes that expression, that picture different with this person versus mine? And why do I like his or hers? What do I like about mine? Is it okay that they're different? it's a whole bunch of self discovery in that process. So it was, it was really good for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

What did you do after that? because, you went from essentially glorified snapshots, right? You have the, skill right of being able to shoot that you had been doing for years. But now you're leaving with more information than ever. As far as your own technical abilities and photography. Where did you take that?

Alex Bogaard:

So then I, I just went and applied it. So I applied these, I mean, there aren't that many, you know, just off the four that I've mentioned to you today, there's a lot to work on already. my confidence went up significantly from that experience. I did come out from a photographic standpoint, a different photographer. I would say my sort of natural makeup is I love being the weakest link the room. I love being surrounded by people who are just so much better at whatever it is, right? I love that because I, absorb that and it gives me something to strive towards. And so my personal disposition was like, Oh, okay. I see, I see a path now to really, whereas before I was just doing it on my own. so I saw a path to improving and I, I just went and applied it. And then a couple of years after that, I went on another trip with the same group. And that was up in Alaska. We did some shooting there. And then I went on the third trip. And, this was this year in April. Went to Cuba. And practiced different, completely different things. So, I had not done, portrait photography, for example. or street photography. I haven't done any of that really. so I went to Cuba with that specific mission in mind, which is okay. I'm going to practice that skill while I'm there. That's a perfect place to go do that. And you've got some examples of one example of that. And then what we submitted to you, the dancer in the hallway. so it's just been so much fun. And then through this, this group, I was able to find Instructors who are the top of the game. I mean, the lady we went with to Cuba is a Pulitzer Prize winning photojournalist.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Alex Bogaard:

mean, talking, it's privileged to be in the same room kind of thing, and those folks are so generous with the feedback they would give and. it was just a cool community. And each time I do this, I just get better and better.

Raymond Hatfield:

how do you define yourself as a photographer? Is it fine art landscape?

Alex Bogaard:

first of all, I come from the business side, right? my day job is not photography. My day job is I'm an insurance executive. So I'm in the business world all the time. And business minded, my business mind kind of rebels a little bit about being slotted into categories.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Alex Bogaard:

And I found the photography world really wants to do this. You either you're a wedding photographer or you are a concert photographer or you're a landscape or wildlife or sports or something. And I've heard the feedback, from people that are in those niches that have expressed the fact that if I wanted to branch out and do this, and publish it, let's say outlet that I published it would say, well, what kind of photographer are you? And if you say, well, I'm a sports photographer, it's landscape. They go, eh, we'll go find a landscape guy and then, and vice versa. So for me, I'm lucky in that I don't need to live by those. Um, by those

Raymond Hatfield:

Labels.

Alex Bogaard:

right? so I instead what I go is, okay, so what do I enjoy the most doing? And, so one, anything that's outdoors so it's a combination of outdoors, but it's a combination of. It's also difficult to get to, right? It's it takes effort. if it's look, I can drive up to my car, get out of my car, take the shot fine, I'm interested in. But if I hike 3 hours this way, or if I want to photograph the Mustangs and I got to go find them and they will travel miles in a matter of minutes. And they displace, how do I get there? How do I put myself in that environment where I can sit for four or five, six hours and just let their interactions. Normalize. Get to a place where I've earned the trust of the subject. So that can be wildlife. That can be people. Cuba was all about people. I know they trust to be able to do that. I think you will know that better than anybody, right? You're trying to take a picture of somebody at a special moment. You have to have that connection for the output to be right. so I am drawn to what's difficult to get to, and I'm drawn to the scenarios where, in order to get to sort of the next level. I have to earn somebody's or something's trust. And that just makes the challenge harder,

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course.

Alex Bogaard:

So does that make sense?

Raymond Hatfield:

It does. It does. I guess my next question is really like, so one of the questions that I like to ask on the podcast is like, after knowing what type of a photographer somebody is, how do you define that? Because, within wedding photography, which is what I did, there's a million different styles. There's a million different ways of doing it. and that's always like, so interesting to me. Right. and that part that you said about being, the lowest man on the totem pole in the room. That's exactly why I started this podcast is like, I love that feeling as well. talking to

Alex Bogaard:

Oh, good.

Raymond Hatfield:

Um, so hearing these other perspectives is one thing that I'm always really interested in. So, you kind of talked about a little bit about your process there and like what it is that you look for, but like from a photographic standpoint, let's say. somebody is brand new and you go up to them and you introduce yourself and you say that you're a photographer and they want to know about your photographic style. How would you describe to them in words what is an Alex Bogarde image?

Alex Bogaard:

I think my, I'm struggling to find sort of words that actually means something to somebody, right? Cause everybody's going to say, well, I want to catch the moment. Well, what does that mean? and everybody says I want to catch the moment, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

Myself included. Yeah.

Alex Bogaard:

That picture, for example, behind me, right? So what's different about it? It's a rodeo shot. It's just an action shot. you don't get a lot of time and get very little time to figure out foreground, background. it's about this thing. What is it that I like about this one? The, your stereotypical shot would have the horse, first of all, elevated as high up in the air as possibly grab it. So you would think about grabbing it at the apex and, here, what I like about this one is. the horses almost collapsed in its rear quarters into the dirt and the dirt's coming up. And by virtue of that dirt coming up, we're not doing this airborne thing just yet, but it's, you get a sense of the violence that comes up. You get a sense of the power that comes up because of, that, of the dirt that's being kicked up. The collapsed rear haunches it's not a typical shot that you see. And at the same time, to me, the rider looks actually quite calm. He looks like he's in control of that, and he is in control at that particular moment. So, I like moments like that. I like what's, what's a little different with it. That is, yes, we know what a rider looks like. Yes, we know what a horse galloping looks like. But is there a way to catch a moment that's slightly different?

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Alex Bogaard:

so I would say stylistically, I'm going to look for the moment. That's, maybe not the obvious one you would pick. It's what's, is there a moment outside of that right before, right after. I imagine in portrait photography, it might be okay, pose, and then the person turns, relaxes, and there's the next shot, and the next shot is now you've got the person's true emotion, and the 14 shots we took before that of the person is like, yeah, they're nice. But the true emotion where they go, or I'm so relieved that this is over you know, that that's the money shot. That's shot that grabs. Right? That's what I'm trying

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, yeah. I can definitely see that in your images, especially when it comes to, wildlife as well. It doesn't just look like a portrait of an animal. you always have some sort of action. You have some sort of, connection with that animal. And I guess that goes back to what you were saying about, building authority. or a connection with, your subjects as well. And that's how you're able to get that. But, Let me ask then, like, when it comes to landscape photography, like, let's say that there's, no animals in it because I've seen some of your images from, I'm guessing Nepal, right? Of just, so Would you say that, that still applies to landscape images that don't have, people or animals in them as

Alex Bogaard:

Yep. Yeah, can. So now it comes from a different source. that moment, right? so if let's take Nepal and the Himalayas in particular, and I would say this is true of pretty much any mountain scene. One of the things that's true about those environments is they tend to be very dynamic. dynamic in terms of weather and dynamic in terms of light. not dynamic as in the mountains are moving. None of that's happening. It's pretty static scene, but what is dynamic is that interaction that takes place where all the elements of nature combined to create and create an effect. So there's a reason why that landscape that mountain at six o'clock in the morning on a summer day or five o'clock in the morning is not the same as at 11. It's not the same as a 6 p. m. It's not the same as a 10 p. m. They're all different. There's a reason why there's a these golden hour concepts and that speaks to strength of light angle of light shadows that are being cast. cloud formations. So, that interaction that actor I'm looking for. If I don't have. A hiker on the trail, or a porter crossing a bridge, or, a yak descending, if I don't have those elements, then I'm going to look for the other ones, which are, how is that sunbeam that's hitting the spot where I am now, but that scene over there is in the shade, I'm wondering if, this is going to move, if this sunbeam is going to move. Based on what's happening with that's going to now shine a light and sweep a light over time across the thing, the scene. And what does that then do? And that is makes for a very different picture.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, yeah,

Alex Bogaard:

the best analogy I can give to that is, okay, take a photograph that you like or print that you like a piece, put it on the wall. No lighting. It looks one way. Put a light on it. It looks different. It pops in a different way, and in nature you find the same effect. The light isn't an artificial light, but it's the filtered light through clouds, or it's filtered light through haze, or it's harsh light, or it's a shadow. Shadows are really, very useful tools to use as well, because they can create the same effect as, the light. So, that's how I try to do that there.

Raymond Hatfield:

you're almost in essence. Taking light and weather and turning them into their own subjects or characters within.

Alex Bogaard:

they are, they're, they're the actors at that moment.

Raymond Hatfield:

I like that. I don't think a lot of people think about that.

Alex Bogaard:

could be wind So if you have a scene with grasses that are bending, and maybe they're bending at different rates and trees that of that ripples on water, all of that creates texture And they're useful. Now, you know, somebody may like it and somebody may not like it, but they're just elements you can work with, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

elements that you can work with. Okay. So, I have, two young kids, right? Sometimes they work with me. Sometimes they don't. when you travel to a location where, as you say, the light, the weather is dynamic, sometimes it works with you. Sometimes it doesn't. how do you deal with that? How do you deal with that idea that you might travel across the earth and get to Nepal and. It doesn't work out

Alex Bogaard:

And it's

Raymond Hatfield:

and it's garbage. How do you deal with

Alex Bogaard:

I know. So, and I was fearful of that because, the lowest point in the Nepal track, basically to Everest base camp was a little over 9000 feet. And the high point where I ended up was, you know, 18. 2 and change, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Alex Bogaard:

there is a complete possibility that the entire trip is actually in fog and in cloud. And it turned out that actually a couple weeks before we got there, that's exactly what it was. And so now, if the hope had been, I wanna get these sweeping vistas, I wanna see the scale of these enormous mountain ranges, which in truth, the pictures don't do'em justice. It is just absolutely jaw dropping and dwarfing. It's just these mountain ranges are so big and you're standing on the valley floor and you're at 15, 000 feet and these things are another 11 up or 12 right next to you that is really difficult. I've always found that really difficult to capture that scale in so back to your question in my case. It isn't about the photograph. It can't be about the photograph. It is about the trip. It's about the journey. It's about the practice. And if I come back with nothing, photographically, and if I define my experience as success is I have a good picture or I don't, failure is I don't, first off, in the way my success rate is, would never do photography if I did that, you know, I might shoot a thousand pictures and have one, that maybe it's such a low rate of return on my, on the effort. You were saying why take up golf, do something else, right. But going out there to spend all this time, to go take all these pictures and then have, if that's the measure, then, to me, that's just a recipe for disappointment. If instead. it's about the experience and within the experience, even in the worst, there is probably something you can do with it. So let's pretend in our case, we're super lucky in that, for the vast majority of the trip, we had clear skies. We were unlucky in that I had gone to photograph Everest, and I had this idea that Everest would be there. first of all, the thing is behind another mountain range. You can barely see her. And then the little bit you can see, it's totally in clouds. I got like two or three glimpses of

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Alex Bogaard:

Ten days travel, right? Hundred miles of trekking. 000 feet of elevation gain to net that 9, 000 foot Delta. And I get a little, you know, 35 seconds snippet when it wasn't even sunset. it was past sunset and the valley was ready in the dark. We're above cloud. And all of a sudden, boop, there's a little parting, you get a little shot, take the shot, come back. It's not a great shot, but the moment is magic. The moment being that it has to be fulfilling enough, right? So, to me, photography is not about the output in the way I look at it. The journey is way more important. The output is the cherry on top. if you come back with nothing, you come back with nothing. Go back again, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

do you assemble some sort of shot list or anything beforehand? Like, what is the preparation process for a trip like

Alex Bogaard:

Yeah, yeah, So I will have typically, and it's usually inspired by what some other people have done. I will have, an idea of here's one image I really like to get. it's built in my head. I imagine the light. I imagine the setting. I imagine the background. and in this case, in Nepal, the one I had imagined, I never got.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Alex Bogaard:

So I imagined the Sherpa I mean, Sherpa is in this accurate sense, the ethnic Sherpa, not A Sherpa isn't just, isn't a porter, right, but the Sherpa. So that, that culture that's in that Khumbu Valley, I imagined that person grizzled, weather beaten. Face leathery skin bio with in a rock constructed shelter of sorts with an open window, natural light coming in and, that fading light across the face and the, all the detail in there. I imagine that's he never got it. I got it in

Raymond Hatfield:

I was going to say, but yeah.

Alex Bogaard:

it, but I didn't get it in Nepal. Right? I usually have. A couple of ideas of things. Wouldn't it be nice if I could have this sort of image. And then I also, make it a point to just be, don't come with too many preconceived ideas in the business world. I do that all day. Everything is calculated. Everything is linear. You know, there's a cause effect relationship to most things. it's fast paced. there has to be a return on investment. We, we do all this controlled environment. And then you go over here. And or I go over here and it's okay. Well, first off, I don't control anything. I don't control the weather. I don't control the time. I don't control whether the cloud is going to come in. It's going to rain. It's going to sunshine. I don't do any of that. I don't control whether the landscape, whether the wildlife is going to show up. I'm not even sure I can control just as best as I try to make it is be in a condition physically where I can get myself there. But you have to give yourself up to that so I think there's an important element that I enjoy doing, which is I'm looking forward to seeing what nature offers today or what the wildlife will offer today. And if it's nothing, it's nothing. It's still a good trip.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've had many conversations with listeners who are nervous or concerned about, turning their photography into a business because they're worried that it's going to take away some of the joy that now there's going to be a pressure to produce. So, if for you, the goal is the experience, and if you don't get the shot, you don't get the shot, then why go to the lengths that you have to, put these in print and put them on walls and it's a lot of work.

Alex Bogaard:

it is a lot of work and it's a great question because the rational person would not do what I'm doing. You know, why, why add all this extra headache? Just go shoot and keep it to, you know, your computer and life's, life's easy. There's an element though, that I'm learning to enjoy and I'm learning to, which I had never experienced before because I kept everything in my laptop. When somebody goes, I really like this, I want this in my home, on a wall in my home. that's different.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Alex Bogaard:

All of a sudden you're like, what? really? And then I will ask them, well, what do you see in the picture? Because I know what I see in it because I was there and for me it's one thing and then, they'll come up with their story. So I've got this couple who, as an example, are getting two, two Mustang prints I've got. And it's an interaction between a white and a black Mustang. And the black and white pictures and the 48 by 48 big. and they're in various stages of, movement. And when I asked him, what is it they see about the picture? They are relating, the pace, the grit, the, challenges of the Mustang's lives to their own. And they're saying this speaks to me because life is a little bit like this. And they want that on their wall. And so, I don't know. It just feels good when somebody says, I really like something enough that I wanted in my most sacred place, which is my

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. Sure.

Alex Bogaard:

so that's why I do that. I'm lucky in that I, you know, I have another profession. So I, if I had to make a living, a living at doing this, I'd be living under a bridge probably. Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

But would you be happy?

Alex Bogaard:

maybe, I don't know.

Raymond Hatfield:

that's funny. That story, always reminds me of the Ansel Adams quote of there are two people in every single photo. The photographer and the viewer, you know, and, and as you said, you were there, like you saw what happened, there's always going to be a technical perception that you're going to have of a photograph, uh, composition, light, all those things, but it almost doesn't even matter, like when somebody else looks at it and they can equate it to their own life, that is, that's something wild, I'm sure,

Alex Bogaard:

that's absolutely right. I've learned this last year when I look at things, I go, it's not, it's not good enough. this technical part isn't right. then realizing that, and conversely, it's true where you can look at something goes, I really nailed that the person seeing it doesn't see that at all right? They don't, necessarily helmet on the imperfections. I don't see them, but they don't see the things that no, no, but wait, look at this. This was really difficult to go get. And they're like, yeah, it's nice.

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah,

Alex Bogaard:

So if it doesn't speak, it doesn't, you know, the technical part matters in the sense that There's a certain quality. I think we want with our work. but after that, it's really about the viewer to paint their own story with it and they'll connect or they'll not. And we have to give that up. I think I have to give up that that story. It's theirs, right? Not mine.

Raymond Hatfield:

so then, let me ask you another question here because, again, I'm trying to think through the mind of the listener who maybe they're not going to Nepal, but maybe they have a cruise coming up, right. And they're going to go to the Bahamas or something. and. They're bringing their camera, right? And you have this limited amount of time before you gotta either get back on the boat or you gotta get back on the plane to go back home. It's easy to figure out if you got what you wanted, but how do you know if you got what you needed? Does that question make sense? do you leave and think to yourself? Yeah, I did a good job.

Alex Bogaard:

think the short answer to your question is we talk about evoking emotion in a viewer, right? When they're looking at a picture, I asked myself the same question of me. Is the image creating an emotion for me? And so if it is, then I will say, Oh, that's, then I got what I need may still not be good enough. It may still not be something that's going to end up on a wall. It may still not be. That's something that somebody else likes. but if it speaks to me for whatever reason, then that's the thing. So a good analogy for that would be, you know, we'll take photographs of our own kids, but look at other people's shots of their kids, right? Do we react the same? Do we have that same sort of emotional response when we look at our kids versus somebody else's children? We don't. And let's say the shot of my, kid is with an iPhone and it's, you know, it's not even, I mean, it's pretty basic shot. it might not even be square. It could be tilted to the side. And let's say I get a pro photographer shoots these guys kids and photographically, technically the superb pictures. Am I going to have the same emotional connection with my snapshot on my phone of my kids versus my kids are still going to win, right? so it doesn't matter how much talent you throw at the other picture in my mind. So why is that? Well, it's because it really isn't about the photograph. It's about the emotion that it triggers in you as the viewer and I try to look at my pictures as a viewer too. So if it's, bringing out an emotion for me and I look at that, I go, that's. That's cool. I like that. And everything else doesn't matter. So one of the questions you asked, which I didn't answer last time was, well, if you take pictures for the love of taking pictures, but then you want to turn into the business, do you then get railroaded into commercializing and, putting stuff out that you don't have any connection with, but somebody else will, and you sell it. I can easily see that happening if one has to sell stuff in order to live, right? I don't have that, that issue. So for me, if I take a photograph and nobody else likes it, then nobody else likes it. what I'm not doing is going out and taking things that don't speak to me.

Raymond Hatfield:

I don't know how to end it any better than that. Honestly, that is something that I know is going to stick, with listeners of the podcast because That's just something that is so easy to get into. Not only even from a commercial sense, but just like a social media sense, you know, we always feel like we have to be putting something out there and to hear from you, that's like, no, no, look, don't do that. Like focus on yourself, focus on your own work. And that's how you're going to create something that's meaningful to you is, is going to be powerful.

Alex Bogaard:

let's be clear. I'm not giving advice because I don't, you know, I'm not,

Raymond Hatfield:

Just your

Alex Bogaard:

I'm just saying for me, it's just, if it works for me as a person and it, it meets my even stricter standards of, quality, and it evokes an emotion, then it'll be what it'll be. It'll be fine. It's fine. It's good enough for me. Put it that

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right. Yeah.

Alex Bogaard:

technically I'm going to be the strictest judge of anybody looking at it. Anyway, I'm going to shoot my own work down a hundred times over.

Raymond Hatfield:

Let me ask you then. I don't know if you do this. I don't know if this is even a practice or not, but what would you think about, say going on a trip? don't know, capturing two or 3000 photos. And then when you get back, you don't even look at the photos, you hand them off to somebody else to pick their favorites. And then you, Just to see like what emotionally resonates with anybody. is that something that is even done

Alex Bogaard:

I have done that, once.

Raymond Hatfield:

and how did that go?

Alex Bogaard:

It was very interesting. I didn't like it.

Raymond Hatfield:

There's a reason why it was only once, huh?

Alex Bogaard:

There's a reason why it was once. And what triggered for me was, I've always really enjoyed the photographic part, but I've really not liked the post work. And I wasn't skilled at it at all. I got better at it, but I wasn't skilled at it at all. And when I went to that, master class thing, I remember saying to one of the faculty, I said, you know, I just hate the computer work. I don't want to do the computer. I just want to focus on the photographic part and that's it. And his response back to me was, you can do that, but then just know you're going to leave off 50 percent of the photograph probably every time.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Alex Bogaard:

And I remember thinking, what does that even mean? And so now back to your question, when I delegated the task of you go pick. The pictures you think are important. I was also asking that person and will you do the editing for me? So I don't have to worry about it because I don't like that process right and then we go Oh, okay, and then they and then I get the list back. I get my photographs back and I'm like really Why'd you pick that one and we're doing this and then I would look at it and go and plus I don't Like the editing That isn't what I saw. I didn't have that connection. I didn't have that emotion. I think we can all hand a picture to five or 10 people. We're going to get five to 10 different reactions to it. in my case, I'm prepared for the fact that nine out of them might be, it's okay. Everybody has an opinion. It's a bit like raising kids. Everybody else knows how you should raise your kids. It's like, well, you know, so I've learned, I can't, you can't delegate that. it's your eye. It's your work. It's. is you. So you can't, you can't delegate that. I don't think.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, I mean, if you want the output. You want, you can't get it right. you can't do it. You can't outsource it

Alex Bogaard:

And I'm, we're not talking photojournalism. That's different.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course.

Alex Bogaard:

that's a business. Dah, dah, dah. And you know, okay. Somebody goes over and shoots a football game. Here's a thousand pictures. It gets wired over to, and the editor makes the pics, right? that's different. But for something you'd want to hang up on the wall, whatever the subject, it's like saying to the painter, go have somebody else paint it. I'll sign

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Yeah. It doesn't work.

Alex Bogaard:

I don't think so, but hey, maybe there's a way I just haven't found it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, if you do, let me know. Cause that sounds, uh, yeah. well, Alex, we're at the end of our time, but. wanted to say thank you. there's been a, a really interesting conversation, really eye opening conversation into your process. And I really appreciate it. And I know that some listeners are thinking right now, or where can we see more of Alex's work? So where's the best place to find you and your work online?

Alex Bogaard:

some of my work is on my website and you can find that at www. alexbogard. com. That's A L E X B O G A R D. com.

Raymond Hatfield:

Huge thank you to Alex for coming on the podcast and just sharing everything that he did. I got three big takeaways from this interview. The first one is to embrace the journey over the destination. Alex shared how he traveled across the planet to photograph Everest. Only to see it for just a few seconds before the clouds covered it back up. Try to understand that the experience of shooting, and the practice that you gain while shooting are more valuable than the final photographs themselves. So try to redefine what success means to you and prioritize learning and not just the photos achieved. Takeaway number two is to maintain your personal connection. Alex talked about the necessity of staying personally involved in every part of the creative process, from planning to shooting to post processing. If you want full control, you must be deeply connected to every stage of creation. the end of the day, it is your unique perspective that makes your work yours. And lastly, create layering. I encourage you to try Alex's technique for constructing your images with deliberate layers. Focus on the dynamics between foreground and background. Try to incorporate more compelling elements. And focus on framing your shot in camera rather than doing a lot of excessive cropping. These techniques will take your images beyond casual snaps and turn them into storytelling art. I would love to know your biggest takeaway. Feel free to share it in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community. We would love to have you. To join, go ahead and head over to beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group now. That is it for today. Until next time, remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon. Thank you.