The Beginner Photography Podcast

508: Kim Grant: From Shooting to Creating: How The Photographic Language We Use Matters

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Kim Grant, a passionate nature photographer whose journey is both inspiring and filled with valuable lessons. Kim discusses the significance of mindfulness in capturing authentic moments, her unique approach to engaging with subjects, and the benefits of simplifying both gear and language in photography.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Mindfulness Enhances Creativity: Being present and attentive enhances your ability to create meaningful, emotionally resonant images that deeply connect with viewers. 
  • Simplify Your Gear: Often, using minimal equipment can increase your creativity and enjoyment, focusing more on the art rather than the technical aspects.
  • Balance Social Media Use: Limiting time on social platforms helps you stay grounded in real-world experiences, reducing stress and fostering creativity.
  • Personal Exploration: Discover your unique style by experimenting with different techniques and genres, exploring what personally resonates and brings you joy.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Practice Mindful Photography: Schedule quiet photo sessions in nature where you can focus fully on your surroundings without distractions. Pay close attention to natural light, colors, textures, and moments, allowing these elements to inspire your shots.
  2. Simplify Your Gear: Limit yourself to one primary lens for a week to challenge your creativity and adaptability. Use a basic camera setup to practice capturing stunning images without relying on advanced gear.
  3. Reduce Social Media Time: Allocate specific periods throughout the day for checking social media, and stick to these times to avoid constant distractions. Invest the additional free time in exploring local areas to photograph, allowing for spontaneous and mindful captures.
  4.  Explore Different Genres: Dedicate a day each week to experiment with various photography genres like portrait, macro, wildlife, or astrophotography. Reflect on your experiences and assess which styles evoke the most emotional response and enjoyment for you.
  5. Engage with a Photography Community: Join photography groups, whether on platforms like Mighty Networks or local meetups, to connect with other enthusiasts. Actively participate by sharing your work, offering and receiving feedback, and attending workshops to continually improve and network.

RESOURCES:
Visit Kim Grant's Website - https://www.photographicconnections.com/
Follow Kim Grant on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kimgrantphotography/

Grab your free 52 Lightroom Presets at
http://freephotographypresets.com/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Kim Grant:

If we look at the world of photography, you know there's this maybe misconception to some degree that we need certain cameras, certain equipment to go to certain places to get certain results. And of course, there's no arguing that if you've got a really high end camera, that the image quality is most likely going to be superior to an entry level camera. But for many people, the financial side of photography can be challenging for them. Not everybody could afford a really high quality camera, nor do they want to. And for me, it's about making photography accessible.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host Raymond Hatfield. And today we're chatting with therapeutic nature photographer Kim Grant about how to go from shooting to creating. But first, the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by CloudSpot. With CloudSpot, you can impress your clients with a beautiful gallery that is not only easy to view, but it's also easy to share and download on any device. Not everybody can say that. You can also control image size at a watermark and set download limits. So stop using Google Drive. What are you doing? Grab your free forever account today over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you are ready. Now, maybe you know the name of today's guest, Kim Grant. I first found her, maybe a year or two ago on YouTube, where she would take us on, these beautiful, photo walks out in, Scotland, either the countryside or the seaside. And it was beautiful, and what I loved is that Kim didn't really focus on, lead shooted F8. Let's use this ISO setting or this shutter speed. She focused on really exploring what she was trying to say with her images. And I know, yes, settings are important when learning photography, but, what's more important than that is having something to say and knowing how to say it. So today we talk about how mindfulness can help you find clarity in what you want to communicate when you are out with your camera. She shares tips on how to be more mindful while out in nature, as well as in the chaos that is sometimes family photography or weddings. We also explore how changing our language about photography can influence not only what we create, but how we produce images with a deeper emotional connection. This one was really powerful for me. And lastly, we also talk about how social media, plays a role in our photography. We talk about how to use it productively and how to set boundaries so that we're not mindlessly scrolling when we could take those moments to be, actually creating something beautiful with our cameras. And don't forget to join the conversation about this episode and others in the free and amazingly supportive Beginner Photography Podcast community, which you can join right now by heading over to beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group. With that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Kim Grant. So Kim, my first question for you is when did you know that photography was first going to play an important role in your life?

Kim Grant:

Yeah, well, I began my photography journey when I was 16 years old. I used to go down to the beach and watch the sunset. And at the time I was in quite a dark place. emotionally, I was kind of experiencing a lot of anxiety and depressive episodes. And I found that the sun, watching the sunset really helped. me to feel a connection. And I want to connect with that beauty further. So I got my first camera, which was a small point and shoot camera, and then very, very quickly upgraded to my first DSLR. And I think right from the beginning, there was like this spark for me, with a camera. I just felt this deep connection. Much deeper connection to anything that I'd ever felt before. And I think possibly about two years after that was when the passion really took off. And I began traveling around Scotland and photographing all sorts of aspects of nature. So yeah, I'd say probably from almost day one of holding that first camera in my hand, it was, one of these very life changing moments for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

What was it about the point and shoot that either wasn't doing it for you or you needed more by investing in a, in a DSLR?

Kim Grant:

I think I'm a very creative person and I think at the time the point and shoot to me was very much like taking snapshots of what I was seeing and I wanted the opportunity to have more creative control over my images and also just be able to choose my settings further and create images that were a little bit more. Better resolution as well. The camera I had the point and shoot was a very, very basic, very cheap sort of camera that you'd give a child. So it was a nice to upgrade to something a little bit more that, that did more than just the snapshots. it gave me that creative. Creative edge and a deeper connection. So yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. Did you have any schooling or education on how to use this DSLR? Because it's not intuitive if you're, if you're jumping right in.

Kim Grant:

no, I didn't. I've never had any formal training in photography. I'm quite intuitive with regards to things like depth of field and composition. I kind of learned that naturally myself. I used to really like art at school, so I think I kind of had already that kind of good perception and the natural ability to see. What would look good in an image and how to frame it. And the settings for me all came from reading magazines and at the time there was, some online videos in that as well that I would watch. So yeah, and just trial and error really. I kinda learned the basics for landscape photography from these magazines and videos. And then I just played around with my camera and continue to learn and, got myself to where I am today.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's so interesting. Cause it's like landscape photography, I would say is one of the more technically focused, disciplines in photography where it's like, if, you're a family photographer, you can get away with a bad technical image if there's like a good smile or a laugh or a good connection, but when it comes to landscape photography where you don't necessarily get faces. In your photos, I find that a lot of the perception of it relies on like the technical, like how good is this technically did you feel that at all? And how did that affect how you learned and navigated your way through figuring out how to use your camera?

Kim Grant:

I don't think I did. I mean, in the beginning, I of course was using compositional techniques that we hear people use regularly, like the rule of thirds and things like that. And of course I use them quite a bit and still now and again I use them a bit too, but I find when I play around and just experiment and that's when my images really begin to speak to me. Because you mentioned there about the kind of portraiture side of things and how if you've got that connection with your subject that you can kind of get away with it. I would argue the same is true for landscape photography and nature photography that I do. It's like, I feel a very deep connection with the natural world. So, if I'm connecting with that sunset or that bug that I'm photographing macro style, or if I'm doing something creative like intentional camera movement, and I'm really connecting with the subject I'm photographing, to me, it just kind of comes naturally with regards to how the image is created. Whereas if you put me out in the field with a couple of people and asked me to photograph them. I'd still be able to do it, but I'd find the connection with the people a lot harder. And for me, the images wouldn't probably be as good as when doing landscape photography. And I think that's where the uniqueness of each individual comes from and how finding What lights you up photographically? You know, if you can find that and connect with it and feel that connection with your subject, then that genre of photography will come more naturally to you than if you're trying to do something that doesn't quite connect with you personally.

Raymond Hatfield:

Were you trying all sorts of different types of? Genres of photography, or did you just dive straight into landscape? And if so, like type of landscape, are we talking here?

Kim Grant:

I dived straight into landscape and in the beginning it was all seascapes for me. Because I was 16 years old at that point, I couldn't drive. I was lucky to live by the sea. So I would just go down to my local beach and to begin with all of my photographs were taken of my local beach. And then I began to explore some of the coastline further along from my house. And it wasn't until I started to drive that I began to dabble in other styles of photography, like I did quite a lot of wildlife photography for a while. And astrophotography. We get quite a lot of Northern Lights displays here in Scotland. So I wanted to start photographing them. I did some light, light painting for a while. But yeah, everything for me was all about nature. And in the beginning it was pretty much, landscapes. And then I've explored further within that to looking at more intimate details and macro photography and stuff like that. So yeah, I have tried a couple of other genres. Like I did photograph a friend's wedding once, but I really didn't enjoy it. For me, it's. It's all about nature and the natural world. And that's what lights me up and what I enjoy photographing.

Raymond Hatfield:

It sounds like you kind of figured that out like pretty early on, right? That, that nature was going to be your thing that you didn't really need to explore much else. But like, I have found that photography is such this great medium to be able to explore just ourselves, deeper than just. The technical side of photography. did you experience this as well?

Kim Grant:

guess, I did. Yeah. And to some degree, I mean, you mentioned there that I kind of found my niche pretty much straight away with some regards. And I think I've just always had this deep connection with nature. You know, as a child, I was always down at the beach, swimming in the sea and running around and going on camping trips. So when I discovered these sunsets, Especially when you're in quite a dark place in life, when you discover something that gives you hope and that lights you up and allows you to feel a little bit of joy, there's something in that that's speaking to you. And I just wanted to explore that further. And then as I began to then broaden the subjects I was photographing within nature, my love and connection with nature just grew and grew and my health also improved as well as I did that. So I think while I have had some interest in exploring other genres of photography. I get so much joy from nature it's where my heart lies and what lights me up. So I kind of just want to keep photographing it. And of course, if different opportunities come up in other genres, I'll be happy to try them. But, Yeah, for me it's just all about being out there. I feel at home when I'm in nature rather than indoors so of course I want to spend as much time out there as possible and enjoy it as much as possible.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. What do you think were then some of your biggest struggles when learning the technical side of photography?

Kim Grant:

I think for me I had quite a lot of maybe limiting beliefs in the beginning and I find in landscape photography you kind of touched on it a little bit earlier about how you feel it's quite a technical genre to some degrees. And I remember when I started, there was very much this idea that this is how you have to take landscape images. You've got to use these techniques. You've got to use these settings. This setting will give you this depth of field. And to begin with, of course, I tried those things and in many situations it worked, but it wasn't until I started playing around with my settings that I really began to kind of find myself. So I found when I was following a lot of The ways that we're told to create landscape images, there was always like this element missing for me, and I also had this belief for a while that to get better images, I needed a more advanced camera, or I needed all these filters, I needed a tripod. And the interesting thing is, as I've gone on my journey, although I use filters occasionally, and I use a tripod now and again, I've now got to a stage where I realize that some of my favorite Ways to do photography is to go out with just one camera, one lens around my neck without everything else. So that that was a difficult thing for me was kind of following all these things that we're told make good images and the equipment that you need to do landscape photography and realizing that actually we don't need these things. They can make certain techniques easier and create certain results in our images, but really it's about finding what works for us. And that was a challenge for me, was having the confidence, I think, to branch off and explore and be confident in what I was exploring and see where it took me.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's something that you talk about quite a bit is figuring out, how we interact with the world of photography, like what is right for us. I've heard you say there's no right or wrong way to photograph something. There's no right or wrong subject to photograph. You just got to figure out how to do it yourself. That can be so hard when, there's so many people talking about how you have to niche down and, technically something may be a bad photo and, there's so much noise out there from people who seem like experts when you're first getting started in the world of photography. So did you. Get past that. How did you kind of silence those voices and kind of forge your own path to find what was right for you?

Kim Grant:

I'd say it wasn't easy because I've always been somebody who, especially growing up, I was very self conscious and didn't have much self esteem, so I would kind of naturally be pulled to do things that the people were saying was the way to do things. But I've really come to realize on my journey that we are all unique. So the standard technical side of doing landscape photography will speak to some people, but it won't speak to everybody. And there's so many ways to get the same results. I mean, if we look at modern digital cameras, especially, just focusing, for instance, there's like five different ways that you can set up your camera to focus and you'll get exactly the same results. So I would never say to somebody you have to focus this way because maybe focusing another way best suits them. And we're all made up differently, you know, our minds are made differently, our perceptions are made up differently, we have different life experiences and some of us will be very technical, some will be more artistic and creative, some of us will like to explore, others will like to be given directed instructions. So I'm always very wary of people who state that this is how you, what you have to do to create a certain image, because I've really realized that, like I say, you can create the same image by doing different things. And it's about finding what works best for you. And the only way that you can find that is by discovering who you are, how you learn, and what conditions and settings and equipment and everything else you most enjoy photographing with, because that's kind of like one of the battles is finding the camera that works for you, finding the tripod that works for you, finding the locations that light you up. And to me, to become a really good photographer in your own eyes is to uncover who you are, what lights you up and how you want to portray and enjoy photography, because ultimately that's all that matters in your own journey.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think that that's a perfect segue into talking about your new book from shooting to creating because watched your video on YouTube about this book and it's very intriguing and Can you tell me a little bit more about it? What is the book and tell me where the idea came from?

Kim Grant:

yeah. So the book from shooting to creating how changing your language can transform your photography. I've written it as a journey through the language of photography, and I'm very mindful in my approach. And I think for me, because a lot of my health journey has been through photography. mental health and emotional health. I've come to realize the power of words. And of course, in the photography world, we hear most photographers saying they shoot their images, they capture their images, they take their images, or they snap their images. And For some reason, for me, there's always been this feeling when using those words that I feel a bit restricted. And a few years ago, I listened to a talk by a photographer called Paul Sanders. And he spoke quite briefly about this and, the fact that a lot of the language in photography can have quite negative, angry, domineering undertones to them. And he was expressing from a mindful perspective how maybe using other words may help us to not only create images in a different style, but also to feel more balanced and mindful in the process. And when I heard him saying this, it just planted a seed in my head and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I began to implement this into my own practice. I stopped saying shoot, capture and snap. I still said, and still do say take from now and again, because it's just so. kind of programmed into my brain, but I realized that when I started to say make and especially create more, create my images, that my approach changed and I also began to connect more deeply with my subjects. So what the book does is it takes people on a journey through these six words, shoot, capture, take, snap, and make, and create, and it explores everything from the definitions of these words to the emotions associated with them, and it gives people a number of exercises that they can go out and practice, and some of these exercises are practical, some are reflection exercises where you can sit down and practice them. Write how you feel about certain things. Some are visualization exercises, so you can use your imagination. And some are embodiment exercises, which I feel are the most transformative because they're about where you feel how the words or the exercise or the situation feels in your body. Because I believe that our truth lies in how we feel, we live in this world where we're taught to use our mind a lot and we then also see all of these mental health issues in the world, which I myself have experienced quite a lot of in my life. But I realized the less I connect with my mind and the more I feel into my body. The more well I feel, the more healthy I feel, the more in tune I feel with my environment. And also the more my images begin to speak to me and really portray emotions, which mean they also speak more to my viewers as well. So the book is really encouraging people to explore this for themselves. Go on their own journey through the exercises and uncover what words best suit them and their process. And, uh, yeah, which words they'd like to, to use basically. So it's not me saying you should use this and not that. It's inviting them to discover this for themselves.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love this idea. How does that work though? Right. You said, you know, you're not going to tell somebody how they need to do it. So how do you teach somebody to go through some sort of process to figure out something like that? on their own, that you're not telling them how to feel. You know what I mean? Like, does that question make sense?

Kim Grant:

It does. Yeah, so I'm basically giving them the information and the exercises for them to explore because of course we're all different. So like I could do an exercise and you could do the same exercise and we could feel and experience and photograph completely different things because we're both different people, come from different countries, different backgrounds. So what I'm doing in this book is I'm giving people the facts about the definition of each word. I'm. putting in front of them the emotions that are most associated with the words and then I'm enabling them through the exercises to go out and experience for themselves how that word and the exercises make them feel and also what images they produce at the end of these exercises based on the words they've used. Because if we look at the world of photography, you know there's this maybe misconception to some degree that we need certain cameras, certain equipment to go to certain places to get certain results. And of course, there's no arguing that if you've got a really high end camera, that the image quality is most likely going to be superior to an entry level camera. But for many people, The financial side of photography can be challenging for them, you know, not everybody could afford a really high quality camera, nor do they want to. And for me, it's about making photography accessible. And I think the beautiful thing about this book is changing your language is a free way to potentially improve your photography. If you're somebody who uses the well known terms a lot and you find in your own practice that you're coming up against stumbling blocks. Maybe just saying creates and feeling how that feels to you and becoming the creator of your images. Is that potentially a way for you to progress as a photographer? For not everybody it's going to be, but I've seen in my own experience with many of my clients that by them changing to using the word create and becoming the creator rather than the shooter or the capture or the taker, they've noticed a change in their images too. And especially if you want to be more emotive in your work and put more meaning and emotion into your images, it can, a simple thing like changing a word can be quite revolutionary.

Raymond Hatfield:

Can you give me an example of that? Cause, I'm trying to play devil's advocate here. And I know that there's people thinking like, these are just words, we've been saying, you know, I'm going to go out and shoot. For a long time. I'm going to go take some photos. I'm going to go out and capture, this great sunset. I understand like words have meaning, but again, I'm sure that some people are thinking like, these are really just where it's like, how important is this really to change? So can you share some of those examples that maybe you've seen either in your own photography by making this, change or, Through your clients, as you said that you, have worked with as well on this,

Kim Grant:

Yeah. So we know through science that everything is energy, everything in the world is energy and the same is true for words. We don't always maybe feel that necessarily or articulate that, but every single word has an energy behind it. There are many situations where shoot and capture are going to be helpful potentially in your photographic process. For instance, if you're out and you're photographing a really fast moving subject and you need a really fast shutter speed, you need your camera on burst mode and you're firing your shutter really, really quickly, then of course, in those situations, shooting and capturing are very appropriate and maybe even may even help you to create those images because you're literally shooting away, you're snapping away, the energy of that word is very suited to what you're photographing, but I've also had many people say to me that they'll go on a location and they'll be snapping away and they'll come home with hundreds of images and they're just not satisfied with them. They don't speak to them. They're bland. They haven't been photographing something fast moving, for instance, they've been in a beautiful landscape and they feel quite peaceful. But they've been snapping and shooting away, and sometimes that dissatisfaction and that simple words of I'm shooting this, it has an imprint on how you feel in that moment, and it also changes how you're approaching it. So if you want to have a more mindful, contemplative approach to your photography, for instance, or you want to put more emotion into your images. And you maybe want to come home with 10 photographs rather than 500, then you may find that using the words make and create, that simple change will help you to do that because you'll become more contemplative. You will take more time over. Observing what's going on around you and just start thinking, I'm going to create this image. Okay, what things do I need to consider to create this rather than I'm going to shoot this image and it becomes quite a fast process of, pressing the shutter and yeah, maybe not being as contemplative, as if you were using the other words. So that's one example I can think of, off the top of my head.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think that really helps, oftentimes, when somebody comes in, like with an idea, especially something like this, where it's like, if we change the words that we use, it can really change the images that you create when I like for myself. Early on what I wanted to know was what's the shortcut to get the photo that I want, right? What are the settings that I need tell me what camera or lens I need and like I can go out capture it and this takes very different approach. It's a very internal approach So I feel like I really grilled you with that one, but I appreciate you, coming out and answering it honestly With your own experience, but you mentioned something there, which was, for those who want to take a more mindful approach to photography and I think the word mindful mindfulness, is often associated with, meditation for those listening. Maybe they haven't looked into this at all. This is a new concept to them. How would you define, mindfulness within photography?

Kim Grant:

So mindfulness is really just being in the present moment, it's not about thinking about the past or thinking about the future. It's simply just being in this present moment right now, being aware of what's going on around you just now. So of course, when it comes to photography, if you're thinking ahead, like, okay, the sun's going to set in two hours and I want to be here and I want to do that. And you're kind of thinking ahead, you're maybe not enjoying that moment. And it also means that when. that sunset comes, that you've been so excited to photograph, that you get so kind of encapsulated in the, I need to get this photograph, that you don't actually remain present in that moment. So in terms of being, connecting mindfulness with photography, going back to the sense of feeling, you know, if we can really feel into what's going on around us, observe what's happening in that moment. Photography is a very visual art form, so of course we're going to be visualizing and seeing what's going on around us. But when we bring mindfulness in, we also start to listen what's going on around us. We start to feel what's going on around us, so if there's some wind, or if you're by the coast, some sea spray coming. You also begin to feel about how you're feeling, which brings the emotion into the scene. You can feel if you're excited about something, if you feel peaceful, and then that gets imprinted into your images. But I've also found that bringing in these other senses and being very present in that moment allows you to see more photographic opportunities because if you're just using your sight and you're thinking oh that's beautiful I'll capture a photograph of this you may still get some beautiful photographs that you're happy with but if in that moment you're like oh I can hear some birds and I can feel some breeze and I can smell the smell of flowers or wherever it may be and oh gosh I feel a certain way not only will You connect more with what you're about to photograph, but you'll also feel better in the moments because you're in that present state. Your body is more relaxed and the more relaxed we are and the more present we are in a scene, generally speaking, the more we're going to connect with our subjects and create beautiful images in that moment that are really speaking to us because we have allowed ourselves to be present enough to really connect and not constantly thinking about what's coming next.

Raymond Hatfield:

I can visualize myself going out local state park right to somewhere, just a beautiful location and doing this really paying attention to what are the sounds that I hear? What are the smells? What am I feeling? What am I sensing inside? As well as visually like what looks good to try to capture an image. There's a percentage of listeners right now who maybe they shoot weddings. Maybe they shoot portraits. You said that you shot that one wedding. Can you share maybe some ways or some ideas that portrait photographers or maybe non landscape photographers can also be more mindful, while they're shooting?

Kim Grant:

Yeah, I mean something I heard a few years ago is that photography literally means with light. So if we're really present and mindful in the moment, it enables us to really connect with the lights. You know, if you're photographing a wedding, for instance, some of the most beautiful wedding photographs I've ever seen has been like, well, you've got the bride sitting in a room and there's natural light coming through the window and illuminating her face and her dress. Or When you're outside and you see these incredible photographers who are using the night sky and stars to get these beautiful images of the couple underneath this beautiful scene. So I think the more mindful you are in that moment, the more you can connect with the light. And of course, the more you connect with the light, the more you're conscious of where To stand where to place your subjects that you're photographing, but also in terms of something like a wedding, for instance, when you're very present and mindful in that moment, you connect more with the person because you become more aware of the small, subtle changes in their facial expression. You can almost see and predict when they're about to move a certain way. Whereas if you've got in your head, oh, I'm thinking about the next photograph or. You know, I want them here doing this, but actually they're doing something else. You can sometimes miss images because really, I feel to be a really good portrait or wedding photographer, there's two elements to it. Of course, you've got these more posed images where you have them standing or doing something specific, but some of the most beautiful emotive images are the ones that aren't planned when you've really connected with them and they start laughing, or there's like a moment where something funny happens and you photograph that. And to be really present in that moment allows you to be able to see these moments as they're happening and create those images that will, have these beautiful natural moments for those people to remember.

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah, that is a, great example. Thank you so much for that. Now this may just be like uh, contextual thing, but it sounds to me like being mindful in nature is more about, Seeing differently, almost like figuring out what to shoot. Because I mean, again, correct me if I'm wrong. When you're out in nature, you can literally point your camera anywhere, any direction, and you're still looking at nature. Whereas it's like with say weddings or portraits. You know where the camera is going to be pointed. Like it's going to be pointed towards people. So again, it sounded to me like maybe being more mindful in nature is about figuring out what to shoot, but being more mindful when photographing people is figuring out when to shoot. Does that make sense? Does that sound possible?

Kim Grant:

Yes, I mean, going back to kind of what I said earlier, we're all different. So when it comes to nature photography, you know, I've experienced this running workshops. I can take a group of six people to the same location. Some of them see opportunities straight away. Other people walk around for like half an hour and they're like, I've no idea what to photograph here. It's just too much. You know, there's too much going on or there's nothing particularly interesting. Speaking to them. And then when I go and speak to them and I slow them down and I point out a couple of things that's going on around them and I connect them more with their senses, they suddenly start trying things and they start, photographing things. So I feel with regards to nature, anyway, that, you know, you can, like I say, take. many people to the same location and everybody's going to be different. But this is where mindfulness can help because you also get photographers who come on location and they start snapping away and photographing everything and they come home with so many images they don't know what to do with them. And they've also spent the whole time behind their camera and they don't really have a clue what's going on around them because they're just being snappy happy and just photographing loads of images. Which some people love, it gives them great joy, but to some people that can also lead to dissatisfaction as well because they're like, Oh, I've got all these images. I didn't really connect with the moment. I don't know what to photograph. So I'm going to photograph everything. I really feel the mindfulness approach in nature, no matter what your approach, whether you're somebody who struggles to see images or doesn't know what to do. subjects to photograph, whether you're somebody that photographs hundreds of images, or whether you're somebody who sees photographs straight away, the mindfulness approach can just allow you to consider everything you're seeing and what you're seeing, the color of your subject, the texture of it, how the light's interacting with it. So I feel it can benefit everybody, no matter how they approach it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that was beautiful. Thank you for that. I've realized like, I follow you. I had David Ulrich on the podcast before who wrote, the book called, Zen camera, And The mindful photographer when listening to you, when, talking with David, it was interesting how much of a role social media played in all this. It seems like the people who speak about mindfulness also. Seem to be the people who try to stay away from social media. So I'm wondering, which by the way, I too want to give up social media, like I find it toxic. Do you think that's causation? Do you think it's correlation? the question is, why do you think leaving social media helps us make better photographs

Kim Grant:

Hmm, I guess we could approach this from so many different angles, but I mean, I can only speak from my own experience. I used to be on almost every social media platform. And now I'm only on Instagram and of course I've got my YouTube channel. But I'm not on Facebook anymore, I'm not on Twitter or X or whatever it's called now, I'm not on TikTok, you know, I got rid of all of these things because I think that's probably one of the issues in the modern day world, social media has connected us and I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today without social media, so I mean I have so much gratitude for what the internet has given me, but we can fall into this cycle of spending too much time online, we can get bombarded with too much information. And then from this perspective, we either don't know what to follow. We don't know who we are because all these people are trying to tell us what to do and where to go. But equally, we don't live in the real world anymore. We spend so much time online with these people that we don't even know. And then we're not out there experiencing life. So I think there's a place for both. You know, I think social media can give us inspiration. Many people who maybe are alone in their photography journey can make friends and connections with people who are interested in the same things as them Somebody like me can share their message But if we spend too much time on social media and we're on too many platforms Like I say, we're not living in the real world and it can have a detrimental impact on our mental health So like what I do now is I post my YouTube videos and I watch the occasional other video But I don't spend hours watching anymore and with that Instagram, I might go on for five minutes a day and do a little bit of scrolling, but that's it. And I use it to just post my own things. There's healthier ways to use social media, but going back to why maybe people that are more into mindfulness stay away from social media or limit how much time they spend on it is because they're more mindful of the negative impacts that it has on them when they're spending hours scrolling. And they also want to be more present, I think, in their body and in the world around them actually experiencing life. And, that's where the true growth and understanding and connection, both with ourselves, nature and other people comes from, it doesn't always come from online. So I think as long as we use social media for inspiration rather than getting drawn into the toxicity of it and the arguments and the trolling and all of that stuff. You know, it can be a very valuable tool, but it's about being mindful of how we're using it, what we're posting, how we're posting it and how we're interacting with other people. And also being mindful about who we're following as well. I'm always an advocate for following people that inspire and uplift you rather than getting involved with all the doom and gloom and arguments that some parts of social media can bring.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, that's unfortunately the social part of social media that I hate. Yeah so much as well. guess I want to know because you have also built a community off of Facebook Can you tell me about that? what is the goal? Like we understand the importance of the internet. We're not saying that the internet is bad tell me how this is different. Tell me how it has, improved you as a photographer and some of the other community members.

Kim Grant:

Yeah, so last year I ran an online community. It was a photographic connections community, which is my business name. We ran the community for just over a year, and it was a beautiful experience because I used an online platform called Mighty Networks, which of course is off Facebook, which enabled us to have this private platform where every month I would set them a theme to explore. We'd have weekly catch ups on Zoom. I'd also do a webinar every month, in conjunction with the theme. And it was beautiful because people made connections from all over the world and some people made some new friends and two members even fell in love. It was quite

Raymond Hatfield:

way. Wow.

Kim Grant:

So it was bringing people who were all interested in nature photography, but also the mindful wellness side of photography together, just for us to connect, to explore a theme together and uncover, who we are. it was beautiful because you were on this platform and you weren't being distracted or bombarded in the same way that social media would. When I began that community, we were on Facebook initially for a couple of months, about, probably about four months or something in the end. But many people were saying, they wanted to just be on the group, but then they would get distracted by social media. Everything else coming up on the feed. And that's when I moved to this other platform. So that's one of the joys of some of these online communities that aren't on Facebook is that you don't get pulled in and distracted by all of the adverts and the trolling and the other posts that Facebook and everything, draws you to. So. Yeah, that was the main benefit that I saw in that, just creating supportive community for people to connect. For me it got to the stage where it became a full time job and I was struggling to maintain it on top of everything else I was doing. And unfortunately I had to bring the community to an end earlier on this year, but I am working on a couple of things to start something again that won't just be so time consuming and stuff for me that I can actually maintain more and that we'll have a community element. Just so that we can connect again and bring people from around the world with a similar interest together, because I think it is important. And there's a lot of people out there who have all these interests, but they maybe don't have anybody in their personal life who's also interested in photography and other things that I speak about. So yeah, I think it's just lovely to connect us from around the world. That's the beautiful thing about the internet. Connecting us with different cultures, countries, people, and we learn a lot from it if we use it mindfully.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, without the internet, you and I would not be talking right now. I would have no idea who you are. So yeah, I, I too am. Very grateful for what the internet has afforded us, in this life. but yeah, I, I feel ya. We did the same. We had our, community on Facebook for, I think it was four or five years. And everybody had said. I sent out a survey. I was like, you know, what do you guys want in this community? Like, let's figure it out. So many people had said let's take it off of Facebook. And I was like, yes, this is the best. Like, I'm so excited for this. We took it off of Facebook and it just, died. And that was the hard part because like the community was so much better for me and my wellbeing. Cause one, I'm not on Facebook and I'm not, seeing all the garbage that can be on Facebook and it was really enjoyable, but it was so hard for other people to create a new habit and honestly, it was hard for myself to create a new habit as well that ultimately. It died and I had to bring the group back to Facebook. So

Kim Grant:

Hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

we are on Facebook and I really have, I feel like I have found a sweet spot for, being on Facebook, just being in the community, even though sometimes I do get lost in Facebook marketplace and whatnot, looking for fun, new deals, um, that is hard, you know, because it's sometimes it's like if I'm being mindful, I don't. Like being on social media, but I also still want a place for people to connect. So there's like this weird concession that has to happen. Here's a roundabout question. Have you found anything like that, in your own photography, something that you're like, this is what I love. I like this a lot, but you still have to make concessions for either for the medium itself Or for others, maybe in the, things that you photograph, the way that you photograph. Is there anything like that?

Kim Grant:

I certainly have in the past, on YouTube, like, I'm not a very technically minded person. Of course I understand the technicalities of what I'm doing in my images, but I don't like speaking about settings and what camera I'm using and that sort of stuff. But people want that unfortunately, or they did. and I used to force myself to put my settings on all my photographs and talk about what gear I was using and it kind of killed the passion for me a little bit. And I, every time I was editing my videos, I'd be like, To me, the settings don't really matter that much because like we discussed earlier, you can create the same image with in many different ways. And of course, the settings are important to a certain degree, but if I share my settings about an image and you go to the same location next week, The light will be different and other things will be different. So even if you use the exact same settings I used, because your camera's different, the light's different, the day's different, you're not going to get the same result. So in the past I've kind of Have done things for the sake of other people that because they wanted it, but then I did a disservice to myself. And since getting rid of those things and really starting to focus on sharing the messages that I really want to share, you know, I still have to bring in certain things now and again to help people understand certain concepts. But again, I think it's a journey. The more authentic you can be to what you enjoy, how you approach your work, then. Your work becomes more authentic and people are spoken to it on a deeper level. And I think for me, when I came off Facebook, let's say about two years ago now, I was terrified because I had, you know, over 3000, at least 3000 followers on Facebook. You know, I was scared what it was going to do for my business, but thankfully, I think because I have such a big presence on YouTube and Instagram, It actually was, really beneficial for me. And for me, when I started move the community off of Facebook to Mighty Networks, it was important for me to find a platform that had an app so that people were still going to get notifications to their phone to drive them to the community and make it easy for them. So yeah, I think that answers your question.

Raymond Hatfield:

It does. Yeah. It's just funny. Cause it's like what's the quote? a successful person wakes up in the morning and goes to bed at night. And in between they do whatever it is that they want. Right? It's this idea that like you can explore and do the things that fulfill you as a human that bring you passion. And yet we also have to be aware of everybody else who we're impacting with what it is that we're creating or what it is that we're doing. And sometimes. it doesn't align perfectly with what it is that we want to do, you know? And I would even find that at weddings because like my least favorite thing to photograph was the portraits. But I know the importance of it and like this is really beneficial to the couple, especially thinking long term, right? Like these people could be gone in years. They could be gone in days. We don't know. So photographing these people is important. And I think that Once I tied that, meaning behind it. It became a whole lot easier to do because now like there was a, there was a reason and became important. So while I don't like being on Facebook, I understand for me, like the meaning behind having the community on Facebook, going to Facebook is more important than my disdain for Facebook,

Kim Grant:

Yes. Yeah, and I totally get that. I think it, like you have to take every situation individually, and of course if you're a wedding photographer and people want certain things, even if you don't enjoy doing them, then it's part of the job, essentially. But One thing I heard the other day. I listened to a podcast by a photographer called Margaret Soraya, who's based here in Scotland. And she used to photograph your kind of traditional weddings, but it didn't really align with her because there was a lot of money involved. It was a lot of indoor stuff and she just wants to be in nature, photographing landscapes. And then she began photographing. Weddings on beaches, so you know, she's in the landscape. She's not doing portrait photograph. She's actually photographing people in the landscape, getting married on the beach, just walking hand in hand, and she absolutely loves it. Now it's so in line with who she is. And I give that example because of course certain business models and certain perceptions is like we have to do X, Y, and Z to get clients or to make money or have people come and, connect with us. And I think when you're beginning, You do because you have to work out actually what aligns with you and what people actually want, you know, and if you can deliver that. But I think when you get to a certain point in your journey and you're like, gosh, I really don't enjoy this. There's something not quite right. And I think that's something that giving that example of Margaret, she's done, she enjoys weddings, but she hated the traditional wedding. She just wanted to be in nature and bringing those two together. She's now got a number of clients of people that just want to get married on beaches and be photographing the natural landscape on a natural level because they're looking for that. And I think if you've got a passion and you have a niche, something like that, then you're going to become known as, Oh, the photographer that photographs natural photographs on beaches and anybody looking for that is going to come to you.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow, that is a great example. Finding a solution for whatever problem it is that you're facing. I appreciate you sharing that for sure. got one last question for you, which is, on your website, it says that you are a therapeutic nature photographer. You're taking two things that you like, and then you're putting them together. So can you tell me a little bit more about what does it mean to be a therapeutic nature photographer? Because love the idea.

Kim Grant:

So first, I think it's important to say that, I certainly didn't invent that term. There are a few colleges and universities around the world. One of my local universities actually has a therapeutic photography course. So it is becoming quite a well known term in certain remits of the photography world. And I think it's a bit like when you think about art therapy, my people are aware of art therapy and how therapeutic things like painting and drawing can be. You know, and it's been something people have known for many years, but I guess with photography being more technical and mechanical, not everybody's associated it with being therapeutic and artistic, and I think now people are realizing how therapeutic photography is not only in using a camera to create images. But also in looking at photographs and seeing what that photograph brings up in you, how it makes you feel, what it connects you with. and also in being photographed, you know, there's a lot of therapeutic photography people out there who photograph people to help them to accept themselves. And, um, I personally use the term because I used to be a nurse. I'm also an accredited self care and wellness coach. And I've also done training and working with mindful photography. And also in my own journey, given photography's helped me with my mental health and emotional well being. To me, it's incredibly therapeutic and through my previous career and the courses I've done in my own experience, I want to now share with other people how therapeutic photography can be, and especially nature photography, because in my experience, getting out into nature, into that natural environment, enhances the therapeutic benefits. And there's so much scientific research out there about how therapeutic nature is. So if we can combine it with photography, it just magnifies that massively. That's why I personally use the term and, I like it. And I prefer, I think, to being a mindful photographer. I like the sense of being a therapeutic photographer because I speak about the whole wellness benefits that photography can bring. And mindfulness is just a part of that.

Raymond Hatfield:

So does this mean that you are taking people out to teach them how to use nature photography as a form of therapy or that your images themselves you're hoping people find therapeutic?

Kim Grant:

So there's a couple of different things I do. I mean, I try and share this, how therapeutic being in nature and doing photography can be through my YouTube channel. And I also run immersive photography weekends, in my local area in Scotland, where I get a small group of people together for a weekend. We connect in this lovely venue. We're surrounded by nature outside. There's a pond, there's trees, there's some beautiful fields. And we do a Solo mindful photography exercises and then we come indoors and we share the images we've created. I share exercises with them, I guide them through things and it's about bringing people to a location together to encompass everything that I believe photography can bring us. Connection to ourselves so we can understand ourselves more, connection to nature and connection to other people. And all three of those things to me is why photography is so therapeutic. And I also do online mentoring with people as well and the occasional online course where I'm teaching elements of this, to people. And especially in the mentoring as well. It's about working with an individual to uncover how they can use photography to help them with their well being, as well as to create the images that they dream of creating as well.

Raymond Hatfield:

That sounds wonderful. Getting together with a group of people and just spending the weekend to go out and photograph in nature. I love the sound of that. Kim, we're out of time, but I know that people are listening, thinking this sounds great. I want to learn more about Kim. I want to see some more of her images. Where is the best place to find you online?

Kim Grant:

The best place is my YouTube channel, which is just under my name, Kim Grant Photography. I'm also on Instagram if you'd like to see some reels and, some of my photographs. And if you're interested, of course, in the book or any of the other offerings I have, like the weekends and mentoring, then my website photographicconnections. com the best place to go. And of course, if you want to hear about anything else I'm hosting and any training or anything I'm doing, then you can sign up to my newsletter at photographicconnections. com as well.

Raymond Hatfield:

Huge thank you to Kim for coming on the podcast and sharing everything that she did. I had three big takeaways. The first one was to practice mindful photography. You know, we could do this by setting aside dedicated time to photograph specifically without distractions, I know that we can, you know, want to get out there and shoot, but then also maybe take some behind the scenes shots with our phone to be able to share on Instagram and like show everybody. But for me, I don't know about you, for me, having the focus of photography, but then also. Then switching to like something like Instagram to get some behind the scenes puts me in two different mindsets and it takes me out of the shooting experience for a moment. And I don't like that, so try to focus on being present, to notice what elements related, to your senses. You could try to capture, you know, the senses, like your smell, the sound and of course, visually, the light that is within the environment that you're capturing. Takeaway number two is to reduce social media time. Schedule these specific times, just like practicing mindful photography, schedule specific times to check your social media accounts and then stick to that. Don't just use them to scroll. And then use that saved time that you're no longer scrolling to explore, local nature spots or other subjects to photograph. I think that you would be shocked to find out what you could create in just five or ten minutes walking around your house, or your neighborhood instead of, well, looking at the photos that all the other photographers who were off of their phones took. And three, simplify your gear. I want to challenge you to, really push yourself creatively by choosing just one camera and one lens to stick with, the next time you're out to do this for, maybe it's just the afternoon, maybe it's a week, maybe it's a month, maybe it's an entire year. But I think that you'll find that when you photograph these, everyday scenes with what you might call, quote unquote, limited gear by just having one camera, one lens, you really have to push yourself to develop your skills rather than relying on your gear. And that is the mark of a great photographer. And one last bonus one here is to engage with a photography community. Participate actively by sharing your work, giving feedback, or just joining in other photography conversations, you know? Like, what was your biggest takeaway from this interview with Kim Grant? I would love to hear it. So take action to become a better photographer right now by joining the beginner photography podcast community over at beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group. That is it for today. Until next time, remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon