The Beginner Photography Podcast

506: Russell Klimas: Master Light Painting: Tools and Techniques for Stunning Photos

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Russell Klimas, a passionate light painter who sheds light on the importance of creativity and experimentation in photography. Russell emphasizes the thrill of capturing a perfect shot in-camera and discusses the joy of happy accidents. He shares valuable tips on using affordable gear, refining techniques through trial and error, and maintaining self-awareness during shoots.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Embrace Experimentation: Dare to try new techniques and tools; it's through trial and error that creativity thrives.
  • Value Shapes Over Colors: Focus on perfecting the shapes in your light painting to maintain clarity and simplicity.
  • Enjoy the Process: The true joy of photography lies not just in the final image, but in the experience and learning along the journey.
  • Learn From Mistakes: Treat every failure as a learning opportunity, allowing you to improve and refine your skills.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Begin Light Painting: Start with inexpensive equipment like a $10 tripod and a Folomov 18650 flashlight. Practice in low-light conditions, focusing on creating clear shapes with consistent strokes.
  2. Experiment with Gear: Try shooting with different lenses like 24-70mm or 16-35mm to understand their impact on your compositions. Use your smartphone with long exposure apps to explore basic light painting techniques.
  3. Refine Your Techniques: Set aside time for regular photo sessions, aiming to perfect one good photo each time. Experiment with different light sources and ambient light considerations to see how they affect your images.
  4. Collaborate and Communicate: Work closely with your subjects, guiding them and using their bodies to shape the light painting. Ensure clear communication about the pose and expectations for the shoot to achieve cohesive results.
  5. Learn and Reflect: Review and analyze your shots after each session, noting what worked and what didn’t. Keep a journal of your light painting experiments, including settings, techniques, and insights, to track your progress and inspire future shoots.

RESOURCES:
Visit Russell Klimas's Website - https://lightandlense.com/
Follow Russell Klimas on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lightnlense/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Russell Klimas:

If you get one good photo, it was a good shoot. Just get one. If you're happy with one, great. Just because there's so much trial and error and things that can go wrong or the weather's bad or whatever, or you play with it and maybe it works. if you just try to get one out of it and you're happy with one, it's a good session.

Raymond Hatfield:

Cool. Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I am your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we're chatting with light painter, Russell Climus about how to get started with this creative long exposure technique. But first the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by Cloudspot. Cloudspot has everything you need to build a thriving photography business. They help you impress your clients, deliver a professional experience, and streamline your workflow all in one platform. You can grab your free forever account over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. One of my favorite memories in photography was very early on, I might have still been in film school, actually, going out with a friend and shooting some long exposure night photos, just using like a flashlight to make it look like we were shooting things like fireballs and stuff like that out of our hands. None of these photos were really good because long exposures, they take a lot of practice to do well, but I'll tell you what, it was fun. And looking at today's guest Russell's images, they're not only fun, but when you realize that they're all done in camera. Technically, it's very, very incredible. His use of light to create incredible night scenes is a true skill that he has worked on for years. I highly encourage you to check out his work on Instagram before listening to this interview. There's a link in the show notes. But today Russell is going to help teach you how you can get started in light painting to create jaw dropping photos for yourself. Have you ever done any light painting or long exposure? I personally would love to see it. And you can post your images in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community right now, which you can join over at beginner photopod. com forward slash group. Again, I'd love to see it. To see him with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Russell Climus Russell, my first first question for you is when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life? in your life?

Russell Klimas:

I think that's an interesting question only because I didn't really know it was kind of those like, Oh, Hey, I'm just going to do what my heart wants me to do. And I just kind of followed that. Hmm, I don't really know. I feel like it kind of waxes and wanes a lot of the time still. I'm getting more into it now than I was the past year. but yeah, I have no idea. I just kind of let the universe happen. What happens? And I'll be like, Hey, this could be fun. Let me go apply for this thing. And I just apply for stuff and see what happens. And then you just kind of becomes more and more a part of your life.

Raymond Hatfield:

What do you mean by that? Apply for stuff.

Russell Klimas:

For example, I did like a TEDx talk, a few years ago and it was one of those. I didn't my goals that year that I wanted to do a TEDx talk. I was like, Hey, look, this looks fun. Let me apply for it or doing the same for like, WPPI, which is a photography conference that happens every year in Vegas. I said, you know what? Let me apply to be an instructor for that. Let me just give it a shot. And then it happened. So I'm just like trying stuff then it becomes more a part of my life. And just like applying for competitions. What? Like I just won a competition recently, with Lindsay Adler and, That was last minute. I was just like, you know what? Let's just try it. You never know. Just apply yourself. Just try things.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's hilarious. Okay, but clearly photography is large part of your life, today. but it sounds like it wasn't always. So, this show is called the beginner photography podcast. I want to focus for a minute on on those early days for you in photography. Do do you you remember, was there one photo, that made you say like, holy cow, like this is better than just a snapshot. Like I actually did something. Um,

Russell Klimas:

Yeah, I guess. I mean, the first time that I really thought about like, maybe I want to get into photography is I was working. I just moved back to Colorado. and I got on a Netflix movie that was filming in my city and we went up to some pass in the mountains very early in the morning. And I was like, I took out my, I think it was an LGV 10 at the time. and I took some landscape photos and I was like, Oh, these are really nice. Like maybe I should get into this. And of course, when you get into photography, you oversaturate everything. Cause you're like, man, this is awesome. but that, I feel like really kind of, sparked my interest. And then when I got into light painting, Maybe it wasn't like six months later, but it was a little down the line. And I found that then I was like, yeah, this is it for me. This is what I want to do

Raymond Hatfield:

V10, that cell cell phone, right?

Russell Klimas:

Yeah

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, Yeah, so I think it's similar to a lot of listeners. It's like, you either go through this phase of like, oh, I had a baby. Maybe I should buy a camera Or grew up with a camera in your hand, you know quote unquote Or with today's technology, realize, Oh, I've taken a few good photos on my phone. Maybe I I should make this a thing. What was it that you were missing from your cell phone that you thought, Oh, maybe I should actually upgrade and buy a dedicated camera?

Russell Klimas:

I don't know if there was necessarily anything. I just, wanted the ability to either like change lenses or just have higher megapixel count because this whole, The iPhone has 48 megapixels. It's not true. They do pixel binning. Okay. It's not the same. and so I think it was just one of those things where I just wanted to have it and honestly holding a camera feels way more satisfying than holding a phone. Can't really explain it. It just does.

Raymond Hatfield:

I totally get it. I mean, of the reasons why I shoot and love Fuji cameras is is like literally just the way that it feels in my hand. just, it feels intuitive to me. So I think that like the tool that you use is super important and you don't always have a way to explain it. So I totally get it. let's talk about your entry into, into light painting because today you're very well known for your light painting, what it is that you're able to create. Where did that start?

Russell Klimas:

I believe this is a story I tell myself cause they don't actually remember, but I was, uh, Yeah. So I have a bunch of friends who are either circus performers who play with fire or whatever. And I was looking up how to do like fire photography when it comes to that aspect. And then I stumbled Eric Paré's work on Google. And I was looking up stuff related to that. And I was like, What in the world is this? This is so magical. I have to figure out how to do it. And he's been a huge inspiration for me. And so like, once I found that I was, is this game over? And that's just like, that's the thing I want to pursue. Photography is mostly always been fun for me and just for fun. But to be able to push the technical aspects of a camera to see what's possible, that's what is exciting to me.

Raymond Hatfield:

I guess I, might have missed a question. for for those who might be like really green in photography, can you, I guess, briefly explain, like, what is light painting?

Russell Klimas:

Good point. we should clarify. so light painting is a form of long exposure photography. So how I like to explain it is you've probably seen airplane trails or car trails before, and that's long exposure. And in any kind of long exposure, how I explain it is when you normally take a photo, you click the button. Once you take the photo and you're done now in a long exposure, you click the button and then you wait. And the camera takes in light for a longer period of time and then it ends the exposure. And that's the difference between the two. And so with light painting specifically, while you can have your basic long exposure with star trails or car trails, we can use a lot of different tools, whether it's tubes, blades, fiber optics, or anything else that you can pretty much play with a flashlight or other, there are very specific light painting tools out there now. And you can create portraits, abstract stuff. You can, Light paint cars, you can do so many different things and a lot of the times you can use it in real estate. It really just allows you to really shape the light in your photo in a way that either natural light or studio light might not be able to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

One of the questions that I think, I'm I'm just going to assume here that people are trying to like put this together in their head, right? That maybe, we'd let just assume that nobody's ever like seen photo that is like painted before. these are typically done like in the very low light situations, right? Like for you to be able to, add light. Is that right? right?

Russell Klimas:

Yeah. Nine times out of 10 or I really like 99 times out of a hundred. You're going to either be in low light or in the dark. there are exceptions to that, but we're not going to get into it. It's too, too, niche.

Raymond Hatfield:

the intermediate advanced photographer. podcast right there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's go back to when you said that you were looking up this photographer who was doing fire, photography and something about it. Yeah. spoke to you. Yeah, so. words, what was it?

Russell Klimas:

So basically with Eric Paré's work, I don't know how it got bundled in or how I was searching for fire photography, but all of his work or majority of it with light painting is using safety tube. You can pick these safety tubes up from like your local home improvement store, like Home Depot or Lowe's and the cost about 4. They are called T8. There's T8 and T12, two different sizes. The majority of the community has shifted to T8 tubes, and basically it's a tube. It's plastic. They normally go over fluorescent lights in case those fluorescent lights were to shatter. And what you will do is you will take the tube. Oftentimes we will put some baking paper. In the tube, or whatever the other term for baking paper is, that I can't think

Raymond Hatfield:

Parchment paper.

Russell Klimas:

Thank you, parchment paper. And, put that in the tube, that'll diffuse the light that comes from the flashlight. And then if you want to put in a gel, you can generally find those like on eBay, you just have to look for like really long, like four foot gels. And then you can put that in the tube as well. And then you just, yeah, you, basically it's a budget lightsaber. You put your flashlight in there and you swing it around. I

Raymond Hatfield:

I love this because it's like, I think one of the first things that I did when I first got into photography and like really understood. I came from the world of, cinematography and and then I got into photography and it's like in cinematography, your shutter speed is pretty much locked, like nine times out of 10, unless you're doing something crazy, like saving private ryan or something, but, your shutter speed is going to be locked. So you never really get to play with that element. And I think that moving into photography for me was really exciting to have that opportunity to be able to do so. And the first place where my mind went was. Oh, well, oh, well, if we're going to do long exposures, what can we do here in terms of, like, or, something? and we just had like little, flashlights, little, like, keychain flashlights or whatever. And it kind of and it kind of worked, right? Like, you could, like, draw stuff or make it look like you were shooting something out of your hand. Did you start did you start there? Because that's not where you today. Like, when I look at your work today, there is, like, a production involved, a more gear. But when you, first started out, like, was that where it started?

Russell Klimas:

No, for me it was emulating Eric Paré's work because the way that he was able to incorporate it with a person and make it look elegant and beautiful. I was like, this is it. Like it just, it created something that I thought was beautiful because most people that have seen steel wool photography and like, that's fine. and a lot of just like stuff that you do with your flashlight or whatever, but it looks just low quality to me. Um, And I was like, that's fine, but it's not inspiring. I wanted to see how I could create something beautiful. At least what I thought was beautiful.

Raymond Hatfield:

did you figure figure that out, what is something that's beautiful more than just still wool? wool?

Russell Klimas:

I mean, when I saw again, it always goes back to Eric Farray for me at the end of the day. But just when I see the tube work, it's simple. It looks clean. Those are the two biggest things that I really look for is I want something that looks intentional And looks clean and beautiful and a lot of the stuff that I do I have very specific shapes that i'm going to make Or I have a very specific idea of how i'm going to light it and then use the light painting as an accent to create like like I love doing like crowns for example and being very specific On the placement of where those blades are when you're creating these crowns. The blades being, they're acrylic blades. You can get them from lightpaintingbrushes. com or insonomelon. com. And they're just acrylic blades that you pop a flashlight into and you can either do stuff with a flashlight on strobe or you can turn it on and off and you get two different effects, but you can use that to do a variety of different things. And, at least for crowns or of the like when using portraits. So it's just all about just Having good lighting, good wardrobe, and then having the light panning kind of be a part of it. And each part of a photograph, Is going to need all of those elements. So I always refer back to Lindsay Adler all the time because she's like my favorite photographer. I love her so much. And when you look at how her lighting is, a lot of people will ask her, how can I do this with, cheap lights or whatever. And it's, not about the quality light you have. It's how you control it. And on top of that, she has really good wardrobe. So if you have good wardrobe and good lighting, that's all you need. Everything else doesn't really matter.

Raymond Hatfield:

did you start with portraits? Like you started doing both light painting and portraits at the same time? Like combining them?

Russell Klimas:

I had tried playing with portraits once I'd got my camera cause after the Netflix movie, or I think maybe during it, I got a Sony, a 6, 400. And which is a crop sensor it's a pretty good starter camera, I think, for people who don't have one battery life, not great, but other than that, and I started playing with portraits again, everything was oversaturated and, just trying to figure it out. And then I just wanted something different. because portraits, I get bored easily. Once I discover a technique, I'm like, cool, I did it. I want the next thing. Now I'm always searching for the next thing and how to push it because photography has always been about what I want, not about what other people want. And that's the difference between like doing it for work and doing it for fun.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, no, of course. But like, when it comes to the portraits, Right. at at least for myself, it's like Again, I'm no master at light light painting, but I've tried, tried the the light painting itself. Like that was the technique. But talking about, it Eric? Looking at his work, seeing that he was doing fire and portraits, did tackle them both at the same time?

Russell Klimas:

at same time? is it's just kind of a part of it. And you learn when, especially when you're doing portraits, and with tubes is person who you were like painting behind, you're doing a collaboration, or at least how I like to work, where I say, cool, hit me with a pose, generally something that's not super far away from the body. Cause anything super far away, your hand's going to move. That's going to cause shifting in the long exposure. But I let them like, If they put their hands one direction, or one hand up and the other hands like into their body, I use their body to guide where the light pinning tube is going to go. Because now we have a person and the light in harmony with each other, and that makes the picture itself just more pleasing to look at. And so I really didn't have a choice but to tackle both at the same time.

Raymond Hatfield:

That wow. That sounds extremely complicated. that sounds you're doing multiple things at once, like trying to learn all of it. that is a lot because, as you mentioned, like you're doing long exposures as well, so not only do you have to learn how to communicate with your models here, but but also, you you have to have them frozen, and now you're gonna go in front of the camera and start, uh, using a flashlight or, a tube to to paint them, to accentuate them, to, create this image. Talk to me about some of these earliest photos, cause it had to have been, I don't want to say a dumpster fire, but like to have been like a lot of mistakes that went through at first.

Russell Klimas:

it's easy when you look back at your old work, you're like, yeah, that was garbage. But at the time you're like, this is great. Right. And really just like with everything. Or at least how I work is it's one step at a time. I'm all about baby steps and being like, cool, this is what I want to play with. Did I get the effect I wanted? Yes. Cool. I got that. And it's just building upon it. Cause I remember the first time I did a good tube light painting with my friend Hannah, and she was always down for escapades with light painting, which was very, I very much appreciated. And, I was like, yeah, this is exactly what I wanted, for what I was trying to go for, but now I look at it and, I wasn't level or like, the horizon was weird or, the composition couldn't be better. Like, yeah, we have a reflection in the water, but it's only part of her. So that doesn't really feel like it, you know, exactly what I want, but a lot of the time, And this is how Eric Paré works too. At least if I remember correctly, it could just be putting words in his mouth at this point. Uh, don't do that. But, if you get one good photo, it was a good shoot. Just get one. If you're happy with one, great. Just because there's so much trial and error and things that can go wrong or the weather's bad or whatever, or you play with it and maybe it works. And so if you just try to get one out of it and you're happy with one, it's a good session.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow, yeah, okay. So then let's talk about that because, as a wedding as a wedding photographer, it's like a lot of my shooting was reactionary. I would see something I would see something in front of me, capture I would capture it. The type that you do is not like that. and correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels more like you have to construct an image there before you even like put up the camera. So, talk to me about this pre visualization that you to to do before you start taking photos.

Russell Klimas:

So, What I always recommend when it comes to learning anything, especially in photography is find someone's style, who you like and emulate the crap out of it. Just literally try to copy it as much as you can. So you understand what's happening. it's just like most things, once you learn the rules and understand the rules, then you can break the rules. And so once you kind of get used to knowing, okay, I understand how this works. Then you think what I do and how it works for me is, How can I take that one step further? So a good example of that is if I make a crown, for example, and I'm doing it, either on strobe, we'll just argue with strobe for now. And you just make a basic circle and you start basically from the blade pointing down from behind the person's head. And you make a circle around their head. It's just like a nice, easy circle. Then I was like, okay, cool. So the blade is parallel to the person. Okay. Now, what if, while I'm making a circle, what if I rotated the blade as that circle is being made? So now I'm introducing a 3D element to it that's going to change the shape of the crown. Okay, cool. let me try that same thing, not on strobe, but just turning the flashlight on and off. See what effect that makes. Or, you know, what if it happens as I'm going around, I make it, like, jut out at certain points. So it's literally just, know, Oh, let me try this thing. Let me try this thing. And just one step at a time. and I can't tell you, I used to do, light painting Airbnb experiences for a little while. And which was really fun. for one, the people here are there, but two, because I would say, Hey, do you want to light paint? And I can guarantee you almost every single time I did that, they did something I had never thought of. And I was like, Oh, I didn't think about it that way. And I thought that was so cool because they're coming at it from a completely different lens, all puns intended. And Yeah. they're looking at it in a different way that I didn't even think about it because they don't have the experience. that's so valuable. And so it's literally just try stuff. And then once you get used to it and you know what you like, then you already know what works and it becomes. just like a second nature thing, because you don't really think about it. A lot of the time I'll just be in the moment and be like, Oh, what if I try this thing and just see what happens. Right. And when you're working with someone like it's just as exciting. Cause honestly, the best feeling is when you do a shot and then the model or whomever you're working with comes and looks at the photo and they're blown away. And I'm like, you can't beat that. You just can't beat that because there's like, it's like magic when

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's a lot of photography. It feels like magic sometimes so when you go out. Again, I'm I'm trying to relate this to like what I do kind of, or what I did just take, for example, like engagement photography, right? this this could be an hour. I might be out for an hour, maybe an hour and a half. Is is that about how long you're out is it longer? Is it shorter amounts of time?

Russell Klimas:

I would say on average, it's two hours. That seems pretty standard for me, just because we were like, all right, cool. We had like, had a good time. And then after about two hours, Given how it always works is when you're at the two hour mark, that's when you're getting your best stuff. And you're like, man, this is awesome. so sometimes you might push for another, but normally I've never gone past three, uh, just because I know I get hungry or tired or we need a break or whatever.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I guess, walk me through like what, are those, let's like you arrive. Let's start before that. Do you. talk to me about the the coming up with an idea or coming up with a concept that you want to, create? let's start there.

Russell Klimas:

idea coming up with a concept that you want to, let's start I was like, okay, cool. I love the way that the light fall off in this vibe here. And I was like, okay, cool. How can I take that, put my own spin on it and add light painting into it. So, I'm going to look at that and be like, okay, cool. I could, do this kind of crown or do this thing. Or I have some new blades. I have a mannequin in my room that I'll test stuff on to be like, do I like the way this looks or not? And, um, to get a better idea of what I'm going to want to do. But a lot of the time, or at least when I was in like, And do it super hard. It was like, hey, you wanna go light painting? And we just kinda yellow it. Because it's just in the moment when you're creating with someone, you just kinda let inspiration strike you and just have a good time. That's what's most important to me is, we're just having a good time. Like, whatever happens, cool.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love that. that's how I feel like a lot of listeners want to feel about photography, just to go out. and just to have fun. I guess what I'm trying to get out here is that Like, it's easier to just go out, like, to your local park and walk around for an hour and see It's easier to, know, if have kid, spend some time with them and take some photos of, like, just see what happens. It's, but with this happening at night, with you needing another person, with you having the additional gear, there there has to be a little bit more involved, right? how can listeners approach it with that same mindset of like, let's let's have fun. how do we get into light painting way, right? Like what, what's the 101, like, what should we do when we first get to a location? how should we set this

Russell Klimas:

Okay, cool. So first, when you first get to a location, pretty much, you look for composition and you look for ambient light because your ambient light is going to affect your photo in ways you might not like. So a lot of times street lamps, they're going to be, a lot of the time they're going to be warm. And if you're not using a warm colored tube, Then you might get a clashing of warm and cool colors and you don't like that. Or, if there's too much ambient light, you might get overexposed. So you have to really kind of determine where you want to go and how you want to shoot it. Not saying that you can't shoot with ambient light, but you have to be fast. You have to be 2 3 seconds max for something like that. And you need a really strong flashlight to overpower the ambient. a lot of Eric Paré stuff, He lights Kim who's his model majority of the time with just the ambient light of the tube and it looks incredible I still don't know how he does it. It's just like it blows me away

Raymond Hatfield:

Amen.

Russell Klimas:

it felt a little unsafe. And so, just being aware of those things. Obviously, like do this sober because it's at night. You got to be extra safe at night. look for any potential ways that you can trip or, animals, plants, bushes, all that sort of stuff. Just try to be super safety conscious. because without the person who you're taking photos of to do the light painting behind, you don't have a photo. So they're number one all the time. So you do what you can to accommodate them and just make sure that everything's good on their end. but I mean, other than that, it's just like, cool. I have my composition. Let's Hey, give me a pose. And you can give them examples. Eric Paré is a great person to reference to see just different poses and what works and what doesn't, because he's done it so much. And he's like the master. And then you can kind of just go from there and see what you get and adjust your settings accordingly. There is no perfect setting for light panning because it just doesn't exist because of your ambient light, the strength of your flashlight, as well as how long the exposure is. And so those variables are always going to be changing, are always going to be different. And depending on the tool that you use with a flashlight also might affect it. So it really like you literally just have to play with it. My standard go to is ISO And then I have a wireless trigger. So I always shoot on bulb and a wireless trigger will let me click the exposure and then I can expose for however long I want. And then I can end it again. My longest ever exposure was 45 minutes. No way. yeah, that was with doing drone stuff. ha ha ha.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, gotcha.

Russell Klimas:

and that was like, you know, then you have to shoot it like F 13 for all of that because it's such a long exposure. so those are like the main things I would say is composition. Make sure the environment is cool. Check your settings and then just light paint and see what happens. There is so much to see what happens in light painting.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course, of course. So, when you're not doing drone stuff, like if you're doing a portrait, what would you say, just kind of ballpark your shutter speed might be? is it around I would, yeah.

Russell Klimas:

It depends on the light painting shape that I'm making. If you're doing tubes, generally it won't go over like 10 seconds. With the exception of if you are exposing for the environment. if you're like outside. So, other than that, Generally I get most things done under 30. the longest sort of things I do are like wings with, acrylic blades and those take between 15 to 20 seconds. Oh, Or some other stuff that I've done with like making portals and like, they're just, I never go over 30. It's just the ease of being able to start and stop whenever I want. And, that can be really nice.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. Of course. let's, let's, let's get we get to a location, we find cool a cool composition, play with our settings. we get something that we like at first. How many setups do you think you do in the two hours? How many different variations of photos are you doing in those two hours?

Russell Klimas:

the two How photos are you doing in those two hours? but I generally will just try to find the best composition for that area if I'm outside. In the studio, it varies just because amount of time. What I generally will end up doing in the studio is we keep the same lighting setup, and often I'll use gels. So then I'll switch out the gel colors, but then I'll try different crowns or different things Within the same setup or similar setup anyway, just because I've done Setups in studio that were five different lights and it took like an hour to get it, right And that's just not worth the amount of studio time that I have to pay for And I've done studio shoots where it's, I just do one lighting setup and then I'm like, okay, cool. I have this tool. How many different ways can I use just this one tool? With this lighting setup to create something new, or different. And I've gotten a lot of good stuff from just the same thing. Are you add in like, um, you can do some standing stuff, do stuff with a stool, do stuff with one of those white cubes and just kind of, add in different elements to see how it's going to push your brain to think differently. I mean, you can go from outside, you can have up to three, sometimes up just a one depending on the environment. And then in the studio, yeah, you just wanted to generally, or you just add in props. Props can help change a lot.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so in the two hours, you might pick three different, you know, locations, or different setups. But but the majority of that time you're trying to, out what can I can I do different? with my tools here? What can I do different with these lights? Is that, different colors? Is it, is it, let's just see if I go a little bit slower with this, like, through that a little bit. Cause I'm guessing it's a lot of just guess and check, is that right? is that right?

Russell Klimas:

a lot of it is guess and check, especially when you're starting out. but even when I'm like, I want to try a new thing and I just let her know, I don't know if this is going to work or not. And even then when I practice, when I'm hanging out with people who want to do it or whatever, I'd say, Hey, I'm going to do what I want to do because this is what I, want to do or whatever. If there's specific shots you want, we can do those. Cause I've done them so many times, but. just be happy with whatever because I'm doing this for me and you just want to be a part of it. So, as long as that's communicated, we're good. But for the most part, colors don't really matter in the long scheme of things when it comes to making shapes. colors are, an after effect to me. So I'll be like, cool, what shape can I make with this or whatever? The only exception being is that if you're using a flashlight and you're using like a rainbow spandex or a holographic paper or something, the white light can overpower the color and blow it out. and you won't be able to recover that in post. So just kind of be aware of that, that you should be aware of how bright your flashlight is. Cause especially when using tubes or any kind of blades or whatever, there's always a hot point closest to the, End of the flashlight. So that's something just to be aware of. but yeah, for the most part, it's just, what shifts can I make? What if I move it this way? What if I trace their body with the tube or the tool? What does that look like? what if I throw them? What if I throw the tubes? What does that look like? I've done that before. I'm like, all right, we're just going to throw and see what happens. Like you just try stuff. Let your creativity shine.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's great. I love that. when it comes to like, new photographers, right. they're trying to picture, what are what are the different possibilities, right? And obviously saying like, just try something, just go out there and just do something, is important because I've often said this, you you can can watch, like, literally every photography video on YouTube, but until you you do something, you don't actually know how it's done. I And I feel feel like this is one one of those areas that probably it applies to more, right? So, what advice do you have for people who are, they do want to get out, but maybe they're they're nervous, they feel like they don't have enough gear. they're overwhelmed by everything that we've learned today. Like, what would you tell those people?

Russell Klimas:

Yeah. So one, I always think it's funny. We're like, let's talk about a visual medium on an audio podcast because that makes sense. Right? Like works so well, especially when light painting, you're like, how do I visualize this thing in my head? And I don't understand. So we're already doing great. but I mean, as like you all, as you know, the best camera is the one that you have on you, which is agreed. but then Also the same light. You have, a light on your phone and I've often done. So if you don't have a camera and you're wanting it to light painting, so on iPhone they have two different apps. You have photo gear, F O T O R gear, which is a free app that can also do video light painting, which is pretty cool. And then there's also the slow shutter app. And so those are two options that can do long exposure. And then on Android, it kind of varies on the manual camera setup, but is you can use that as your camera and then use somebody else's flashlight on their phone to light paint with. And that works really well. If you just want to do like, I've done stuff where if I have a portrait, right. so then I'll start the flashlight behind their head. And I'll just do like a slow spiral out with the cell phone camera. And then if you want to light your subject, we'll then just turn the light and then light. Your subject with the light from the cell phone. or if you want to, say, let's, for example, when we were growing up, we all made the five pointed star in the notebooks where they would, all the lines would connect, right. Is so what you can do is you can use your other hand and block the light with the cell phone, right. And then remove it as you start making that star and where it ends, block the light again, so that way you don't have those trails in there. So you can create. like little environments that way and create different ways, to kind of create your scene, whatever you want it to be. really it all comes down to your imagination. a guy who's really, really good at, drawing stuff. if you looked into light painting at all, you've probably come across Darius twin. He's incredible at drawing. I don't know how he does it with his. Spatial awareness. I do not have that spatial awareness. there's another guy who I can't remember off the top of my head who's really, really good with just creating that spatial stuff. mass street art is probably the best light calligrapher I've ever seen in my entire life. he has specific tools. He does a lot of like Arabic looking symbols and like, he's written the entire alphabet and it looks gorgeous. you can use your flash, you can just grab any flashlight. And if you want to, you can use the wall, put it on the wall and it's going to create this kind of this cone effect. And he has used that to literally create light graffiti on the wall. And it looks incredible. So there's like so many options you can do with just a flashlight,

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah guess maybe that's another thing that we probably should have dove a little bit deeper into is the gear. So, you're telling me that I could probably get into this with just a cell phone, which is great, but Let's, stick to the dedicated camera. here So we got a camera is there any specifics that we need as far as lenses go or talk to me to me about the flashlights and the gear and I guess tripods as well, like what do we need just to just to get started. And then how do we grow? once we're out of that beginner phase?

Russell Klimas:

Cool. So to get started, generally like, any camera will do a lens wise. I, for years, I only recently switched to just like other lenses. I just use a 24 to 70. That's all I used forever was just that, for like 99 percent of everything that I shot. So. That's a great lens at 16 to 35 is also good the reason I got the 24 to 70 was I can do wide but I can also do portraits and that was like the Happy medium between the two for me Tripod wise honestly anything works. I still have the first tripod. I bought from Goodwill for like 10 Okay, I still use it, right? It's not great, but it works And Then when it comes to flashlights the best one that you probably start out with, if you want to just, you're on a budget, you want to start it. I believe it's on lightpainting.store that Eric Paré runs. And it's the Folomov F O L O M O V, 18650. It runs for about 35. It has a constant strobe, which is really important. It has an adjustable brightness, which is also really important. These are things that as light painters, we look for, we want these things. And it, can go up to about 960 lumens. So that's a great starter flashlight. The one caveat is that it does get toasty. That flashlight will get hot with a fresh battery. So be aware of that. But other than that, great starter flashlight that I would highly recommend if they're still around. Eric Paré generally will update his blog or will update the store for other flashlights that he finds. Another good resource for flashlights Is steven light art I want to say and he does just like flashlight reviews in general and he's a light painter So like if you want to look at the pros and cons and everything you want to get into it Check out his reviews. no, there's nobody who does more in depth reviews than he does. other than that, tools, with light painting. Obviously you can make your own light painting tubes. You can also get light painting tubes from Eric Paré at the lightpainting.store lightpaintingbrushes.com and then ansonamelon.com Those are going to be your three main areas that I would peruse. light painting blades is going to be cheaper than Ansonamelon. But the thinness, especially if you're using blades, and they have some different tools there as well, there's more than just, there's fiber optics, there's, different, like, collapsible lightsabers, they have the portrait light, which I really like to, like, light my subject, and, the blades are really thin. And so I can't tell you how many times I dropped those blades and they broke. And I was like, dang, that's 40 that are no good no more, which you can hot glue, but it's not the same. but the Anson and Mellon blades, which are more expensive, their flashlight, their new one, which is amazing. it costs 159, which seems insane for a flashlight, but to be able to change strobe, whatever you want, intensity, as well as color, make your own patterns, all from a Bluetooth app. So it makes it super, super easy. it's honestly invaluable and it's like the only flashlight I ever want to use anymore, unless I'm doing tubes. Like it's amazing. if I didn't believe in it, like given I'm also like an affiliate sponsored with them, but like, I wouldn't be unless I believed in it because it's so good. And it's so useful. And I'm like, Oh, continuing where we've been with like the color shine flashlight, which is like a 35 flash on Amazon. If you drop it, it becomes red forever. And, uh, it runs off AAA batteries and it's not very bright. So like, it was something that was sorely needed in the light painting community to have an amazing color flashlight.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I kind of want to go back to something that you said earlier, now that you brought that up. You said that, don't really play around a lot with color. Did I get that right when you were talking about portraits?

Russell Klimas:

When it comes to shapes when you're asking what am I looking for? I always care about the shape first Because color can always be changed In post. Well, yeah. I mean, as a light painter, we don't try to because it's all about getting it in camera. But I mean, like I can make the same shape and it's just one less thing I have to think about. Right. It's just like when we're building a studio session, you do one light at a time to see like, do I like the way the light falls? Right. And then you add, like, you want to fill in the shadows. Okay. I'm gonna use a gel to do that. But with light painting, it's let me get the shape first. Cool. I like that shape. Now let's add color to it. See if I like that color and you're going to adjust that way. you're already going at a hundred miles an hour trying to think about things cause you're thinking more than you would an average photo, which is ISO F stop and shutter speed. And so building one at a time and just taking it piece by piece is going to help you just stay sane. And so that's why I don't worry about color to start.

Raymond Hatfield:

Maybe If that was maybe one of those tricks, like you just shoot everything, whatever the color, daylight balanced, I guess, as your flashlight, and then just change it in post. But, you kind of brought up an interesting point of, always trying to get it right in camera. would imagine, this is probably, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, one of the easiest things that you could fake in Photoshop, right? Because you're, trying to like mask yourself. just these floating shapes and colors, in the atmosphere. You could technically fake all of this, but is the, thrill of the of the hunt, I guess, the getting it right in camera?

Russell Klimas:

A thousand percent. The thrill of the hunt is getting it right in camera. that is what makes it fun because yeah, I could just make it in Photoshop. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's boring to me. Like again. I'm always wanting to challenging myself because that's what makes it fun. Doing a Photoshop is boring, right? Doing stuff with, just making an image with AI. Like, cool. I can do that. But it's boring because I'm like, all right, while I did the thing, it wasn't fun for me. Unless there's a very specific challenge I'm trying to hit that's difficult to do. I don't want to do it. So with like light painting, there's been instances where I'm like, okay, cool. I'm going to take this crown concept and now we're going to expand it. So we'll start with the crown behind their head and then let's, Add two layers to that that are coming emanating from their body. Can I make those evenly spaced and make that look really clean? That's really hard because you have to think about where your arm is, how the blade is changing and shifting with the camera and where the light is being angled at. there's so many different. Where you have to think about it, and that's what makes it fun. And with most light painters, we like to go out and do the thing. We don't want to be behind a computer. photoshopping and stuff, because it's more fun to just do it in real life.

Raymond Hatfield:

I feel the same way about photography. Yeah, a hundred percent. so this will be my last This will be my last question for you is, how do you know? That you've done a good job. Like, how do you know at the end of the night that you didn't waste your entire evening, and that you're coming home with something. that you're proud of?

Russell Klimas:

ha. side, because we care about doing it in camera, you'll know, pretty much because you look at the back of the camera like, I got it or I didn't. But like I alluded to earlier, did I have a good time? Did I enjoy myself with the people or person I was hanging out with? If I did, it was a good night. It doesn't really matter. what I came away with, because at the end of the day, just like with most things, if I failed, I learned things and now it's going to make me better for next time. So if I failed a bunch and I'm like, man, none of this worked. Or if I just had an off night, that's cool. Check in with yourself to be like, all right, cool. What could I do better? I can't tell you how many times I have had a migraine coming on. And I was like, I'm going to do drone light painting tonight. Cause I need to go out and do it. And every time I've done that, something went horribly wrong. And so I just like. Oh, cool. I've learned this multiple times. I should just, if I have a migraine coming on, don't go out because I'm going to miss something very important and it's going to crash my drone. So like, got to check in on yourself. And again, I feel all the time you're going to fail more in light painting than you're going to succeed. But when you succeed or when serendipitous serendipity stuff happens, then it's just incredible. there was one time it was during I'm friends with a sound and lighting production studio. And I was going to have a friend come in and, I guess there was a miscommunication. She was going to model and I was like, all right, cool, whatever. And then I ended up calling my friend Rachel and I was like, Hey, Rachel, what are you up to right now? She's like, well, I was just testing out makeup. I'm like, perfect. So you're already done. available? Can you come down to the studio? And we had this big parachute dress and everything and everything just came together. And it's still my favorite photo that I've ever taken. And it was just amazing. And it was just because it happened, right? I didn't know I was going to get that shot, but it happened and it was great. So, either things will happen, things they don't, but as long as we had fun, all that really mattered for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

Russell, that's perfect. I know a lot of people are going to listen to that and they're going to have a big smile on their face, Whether they're in the car or at the gym and they're going to look like a weirdo, especially if they're at the gym, hopefully not smiling in front of somebody all creepy, but, appreciate the sentiment for sure because I, feel the feel the same way when those little happen, There's, than that. So, Russell, I russell, I think that I asked you everything that I I could think of, you're but you're into this world more than I am. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you want to make sure that people know about light painting or something that I missed? missed?

Russell Klimas:

so the first thing that comes to my mind is one, when it comes to the clothing that your model wears, we're not going to talk about fire or anything cause that's way dangerous. And there's a lot of things that we're not going to get into. but when it comes to, if you're just using, like either lighting them, or if you're dealing with ambient light or anything like that, black or white clothing is the best. The reason it's the best is to say I have an orange colored tube, and you're wearing a green colored outfit. Well, the ambient lighting from that orange color tube is going to change the color of that green outfit if I am not lighting them with a strobe or something. And so that's something you need to be aware of, is how your ambient light is going to affect the clothing that your subject is wearing. that's something that can, be easily missed. in that, and then also, other things is just, like, communicate with your model. Like, I always do a 3 2 1 countdown. And like, what's gonna happen? We're gonna do this thing, and then I'll let you know when you can, you know, Stop being still like a statue! Otherwise they'll be like, I need to breathe! Or like, whatever, like, so communicate, Anything with your subjects, Like if your arms are really far out, or if they're on one foot, or whatever, like literally try it right now. If you put your arms out all the way, And you try to not make them move, They're moving! You can't help it. You can't stop. You want to. You can't stop. for the average person, it's next to impossible. I've worked with like contortionists and stuff where they've been able to hold crazy poses and be perfectly still, but you know, they've training for that. so just be aware of the body positions and what's going to work or not. You will definitely, if you do move, you're going to see like this, like shadow almost, which if you use effectively can look really, really cool. and then I think the only other thing I can think of right now, We didn't talk a lot about fiber optics, but a lot of the time people will use them like on their face or something like that. just be careful of how the fiber optics go. because if their eyes are open and those fiber optics can potentially poke them in the eye. So just be careful about that. I've never had it happen. I've done this a crap ton, I've heard people say it's happened. and then lastly, if you have, any questions or anything like that. So on my website, I have what I created the ultimate light painting guide. Okay, it is just a giant document. That's on my website There's a table of contents that you can just click on it will bring you to it And it's basically everything I know how to do. There's a bunch of video tutorials on there. There's just like Resources for other people you can learn from or tools or whatever So if you have any questions don't know where to look start there kind of find what you want see what you like and then experiment yourself because that's going to be how you learn and kind of determine what you like.

Raymond Hatfield:

where can we find this document? Where can we find out more of your work as well online?

Russell Klimas:

so the main two places, you can go to my website, lightandlens. com that's light and, and then l e n s e. com. and that's where you can either find, a variety of different stuff. And then I just like post on Instagram for the most part. With the tag of light and lens with the E at the end and there's a whole bunch of stuff I'm working on now that I have a camera that can do multiple exposure because Sony's can't it makes me sad and So yeah, they're gonna be a lot more multiple exposure related things that are all gonna be about in camera and pushing that possibility That hopefully will blow your minds because I think it's really cool. And there's literally one competition In America that I know of, there might be two that does in camera artistry. So it's all about being in camera and slow, like find that stuff, apply for that stuff and like, See how you can really push your brain to create stuff that like, look at a photo and look like, all right, this was done in Photoshop. How could I do it in camera? And that's what makes me excited. so if you think that way, that's going to be the best way that I think to go about any kind of photography, honestly. but yeah, so those are the two places you could find me as I totally went on a totally different side rant.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. Well, Russell again, man, thank you coming on today. I'm going to include links to all those places in the show notes. Appreciate I appreciate you you coming on and sharing everything that you did to seeing this new multiple exposure thing that you got going on. This is gonna be real cool.

Russell Klimas:

Heck yeah, dude. Thanks for having me on.

Raymond Hatfield:

Woo. All right, let's go ahead and recap what we have learned today from Russell. First of all, big thanks to Russell for coming on and really breaking all this down first takeaway is aim for just one great shot, try to focus on getting one truly exceptional photo during shoot, whenever it is, you go out to plan to get these photos. And just assume that it's going to involve a lot of trial and error because trust me, it will. But I think if you approach it with that mindset, it's going to be much less pressure and you'll find that the creativity just flows a whole lot better. So try to spend more time pre visualizing your shot, and try to understand, what is the lighting that's going to go into this? What is the angle that you're going for? What's a focal length? What's a composition that you're going for? So that when you go out there. It'll just be more of a step by step process to capturing that photo. Takeaway number two is to experiment with different light techniques. Like I shared in the beginning, light painting can be a super fun way to create unique images. You can start with just a simple flashlight and gradually incorporate more complex methods as you grow comfortable. So again, start with that cheap flashlight and then focus on shapes at first and then experiment with colors and then other elements to add more depth to your photos as well. Lastly, embrace failure as a learning opportunity, not as a failure. Not every photo is going to be perfect. Trust me. But remember, every failure is a chance to learn and improve because it failed for a reason. And if you can figure out what that reason is and why you don't like it, well, now you know what not to do next time. So do that and then embrace the process and honestly, just enjoy the journey. It's a fun journey. Enjoy. I really want to hear your biggest takeaway again, in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community, which you can join by heading over to beginner photopod. com forward slash group right now, that was it for today. Until next time. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.