The Beginner Photography Podcast

494: Gary Williams: Street Portraiture Tips: Capturing Camden Passage

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Gary Williams, a passionate and insightful photographer who transformed his love for capturing people and places into impactful projects when he started documenting the people and shop owners of Camden Passage. Gary emphasizes the significance of pursuing personal passions, creating tangible products like books or prints, and engaging with your community through exhibitions. He offers inspiration for finding your own project and following your heart in photography. 

The Big Ideas:

  • Follow Your Passion: Identify what you love to photograph and focus on it without worrying about financial gain or recognition. True passion guides your journey.
  • Create Tangible Products: Consider turning your photography into books or prints. Tangible products can make your work accessible and memorable for a wider audience.
  • Engage with Your Community: Hosting exhibitions or involving your local community can positively impact and bring attention to your work. Interaction fosters deeper connections.
  • Build Relationships: Develop bonds with your subjects. Understanding their stories adds depth to your portraits and makes your photos more meaningful.

Photography Action Plan:

  1. Identify Your Passion Project: Reflect on what genuinely excites you in photography. Start a small photo project focusing on this interest, setting short-term goals to keep you motivated.
  2. Create Tangible Works: Select your best photos and design a photobook or print series. Look for local or online services that provide high-quality printing options to give your work a professional touch.
  3. Host a Local Exhibition: Find a community space, like a library or café, willing to host your exhibition. Prepare a collection of your best work, and create simple displays with descriptions to engage viewers.
  4. Learn and Practice Portrait Photography: Schedule sessions with friends or local people willing to model, focusing on capturing their essence without forced smiles. Experiment with different lighting setups and settings to find what best highlights your subjects.
  5. Network with Other Photographers: Join local photography clubs or online forums to share experiences and advice. Attend workshops or meetups to learn new techniques and build supportive relationships within the photography community.

Resources:
Gary Williams Website - https://www.garywilliams.photography/
Gary Williams Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/garywilliams.photography/
Gary Williams Camden Passage project - https://www.instagram.com/thisiscamdenpassage

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Gary Williams:

Most people go through their whole lives and they die and they never knew what they actually wanted to do with their lives, right? And if you can find your passion, so let's say you've already found it, it's photography, but if within that you can find what really turns you on in photography, once you find that. Then you're golden, right? Just enjoy that. Indulge that. Don't worry about the work because the work will just happen because you're just going to be making work because you're just going to be having fun doing what you love to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hadfield. And today we're chatting with street portrait photographer, Gary Williams, about turning his images into something tangible that improves his community. But first, the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by Cloudspot. You can impress your clients with beautiful galleries that are easy to view, share, and even download on any device. Not every gallery service can actually say that. You can control image size, add a watermark, and even download limits with CloudSpot. So grab your free forever account today over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when and if you're ready. Now today's guest Gary Williams has done something that many of us have honestly only ever dreamed of, even though we could all go out and do this right now. Gary started documenting the people on the street of his local community and has turned his images into a book and his images are hung all around the community. When I interviewed Joe McNally, he said that the camera is like a passport and I've always felt the same way about a camera. You can be a different person behind the mask of a camera. You can build connections just by simply having a camera. You can make a difference with your camera, but. What stops us? Why do we not all do this? You know, it's the lack of confidence. It's the fear of being yelled at by a stranger. It's feeling like maybe this is all for nothing, right? We don't know where these images are going to end up. Why am I even doing this? I don't know these people. But for many of us, we still want it bad. And I know this like for a fact, because, it's not just me. When you look at YouTube, street photography videos are some of the most. Popular on YouTube because it's where you can get, most of the joy without any of the risk, but today's guest, Gary, he did it. He actually did it like he uses his images to build connections with those in his community. And today he's going to talk to us about how he did it, why he did it and how you can too. So be sure to stick around to the end for a recap on how you can implement what you learned today into your own photography. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Gary Williams. I want to know, when did you first know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Gary Williams:

That is a good question. I guess you ask everybody that question, don't you? And I should have been prepared. But

Raymond Hatfield:

I do, yeah.

Gary Williams:

I'm someone that's always loved photographs, but I'm a big fan of your podcast and listened to other people answer that question. They talk about, their dad had a camera or there was a kind of a brownie in the hand. They just got all excited about it. That wasn't really the case with me. We had a cameras at home and stuff and I kind of enjoyed it, but. I think it was for me when I was a young adult. I always enjoyed technology and I always enjoyed gadgets. I remember getting a, Sony digital camera and it's almost like every couple of years I'd just want to get the latest, fanciest gadget. And cameras was a part of that. But. the time that I really started to take it seriously was only just before the pandemic, actually. I mean, I'd been taking pictures and enjoying taking pictures all my adult life. So it was always a thing for me. But just before the pandemic, I went on a workshop with Martin Parr, my friend of mine. We're both friends of Martin Parr. He never does workshops. And a friend of mine saw that he was doing one. It was in India. It meant a lot of money, a big thing, you know, for us to go and do this. But we were like, you know what, let's just do it. It's a kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity. Which of course meant we had to go out and buy new cameras, because that's how you take better pictures, right? We all know that. The best camera you can afford, and your pictures are going to be amazing. We went out there and, we had a great time. It was a week with Martin and, learned a lot of stuff. And then I really did start to take it more seriously. And at about that time, of course, I, in fact, just when we came back, COVID happened, which sort of changed everything. But a lot of what I was doing in lockdown was watching every YouTube video and, you know, really started to study photography and take it more seriously, but of course at that time I was living in Tenerife actually as part of Spain in the Canary Islands, and they were super strict, I mean super strict, you couldn't leave the apartment unless you know you were going to the shops and there were police around all the time if you went out for a little walk around the block they'd be asking for a receipt to show that you'd been to the shop and it had to be the shop nearest to your house otherwise you'd get a fine, you had to also be going to the shop to buy essential things. Like if you just came from the shops with a couple of beers in a bag, you'd be fined, right? They were hardcore. So I was like desperate for stuff to photograph and to get out. I got a lot of photographs of the inside of that apartment in Tenerife, just to stop myself from going crazy. And as we were coming out of COVID, I actually started the project, which I guess is why we're talking today. Cause I came back to London and there's a little street near my house and that became the place where I would indulge my passion and explore the kind of photography that I wanted to spend my time doing.

Raymond Hatfield:

There's a lot there that we need to, uh, go back and follow up on. I think the first thing for me is I want to know more about, this workshop that you did with Martin Park, because, as you said, it was a bit of an investment, you were interested in like having the newest gadgets, but that's a commitment that you're making towards creating something. Right. Like I like let's just say, disc golf. I love playing disc golf with my friends, but I'm not going to probably not going to go on a week long workshop or week long disc golf tournament in another country That's next level. So I feel like there was probably something a little bit deeper within you that, that felt a love of photography, you liked the technology about it. Was it the images that you were creating, was it images that you had seen? What was it about photography you had experienced in your life that said, you know what, I'm going to commit to this week long workshop in another country that is quite an investment to make, with no prior experience.

Gary Williams:

Well, I was a fan and I'm a fan of photo books and Martin Parr featured very much in that. I think not that long ago he had a fantastic exhibition at the the National Portrait Gallery here and, just been such a fan of his work and street photography in general and, um, Of course, I mean, I'm probably downplaying it by saying that, you know, I was into the, I wasn't into the technology of it, but of course I loved making pictures and I, didn't really know what I was doing, I just loved taking pictures and in my travels, in my previous job, my previous life really a singer. I worked quite a lot on cruise ships and I'd be what's called a guest entertainer. So I'd fly out, join a ship for like four days, five days, do a show and then come back again. But I'd be doing that like all over the world. So I'd get to see a lot of places. I'd only do one show, two shows, maybe in the time that I was on the ship. So I had a lot of time off to explore, which is a real privilege. So, I'd get off and, that's what I'd be doing. I'd be with my camera and taking pictures. It's funny. I don't know if you or any of your listeners do this, but I look back on some of the pictures I was taking, 20 years ago, and I really didn't know at all what I was doing. And there's some good stuff there. Sometimes I think, well, I wish I could take pictures like that now. how did I do that? Right? There's obviously something, I think we've all got some kind of natural ability or natural eye right which gets us into it and we think okay we can take this more seriously or maybe even we can do this for a living and then we start training ourselves studying it and then sort of understand what is it that we were doing naturally there well and kind of breaking it down Right it's not a happy accident that we can do it more purposefully in future but the reason I spent the money and went to India to study for a week with Martin Powers because I'm such a big fan of his that just to meet him, for 10 minutes would have been great. So to get to spend a whole week with him, with a small group, I think there were maybe 10 of us or something like that the workshop. for me, it was a no brainer. it was a great opportunity. And one of the biggest bonuses from that week was the friendships that I developed with other photographers that I still have now. Not everybody, of course, because brings very different kind of people. I mean, we all got along great. It was a great experience. But there's one or two people on there that have become good friends and have remained so. And that in itself is just a lovely, precious thing, isn't it?

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. Yeah, it's fun because, as you can imagine, like, we have a, beginner photography podcast group, a community online, and like, we all chat there, but there's something entirely different than when you're able to actually meet with somebody in person, get a feel for who they are, what it is that they like, and their personality, and that really does bring you closer together. Just, just the being in person part of it.

Gary Williams:

Do, do you do in person get togethers? Do you do workshops? Do you get your listeners all together?

Raymond Hatfield:

It's been one of those things that's been on the list for the past, like, I don't know, five years?

Gary Williams:

should have a mega conference with like 4, 000 of

Raymond Hatfield:

ha. Ha

Gary Williams:

all in one. Like, we'll do it in Vegas. You're gonna smash it. Just put that on your

Raymond Hatfield:

been brought up before,

Gary Williams:

People that bring it up though, they never have to organize it, right? Here's a good idea. I'll just throw that over to you. Just make that happen.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's the hard part, is the organizing part.

Gary Williams:

Because you've got the time.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a nightmare for me. Yeah, I don't like that so much. So if anybody is listening and they think like, Hey, let's set this up and you will take this on, like contact me and let's talk about it. But, go back to your photo journey here. When you took this, workshop, where were you at, photographically in terms of your skills, where you're shooting on auto, like, were you proficient with a camera? Where were you at?

Gary Williams:

I was just beginning to understand the exposure triangle properly. I got a Fuji camera, I think it was an X T3, and I liked that because of the dials on the top, and, I could see, I could very easily, I didn't have to go into a screen to change those settings. The friend that I went on the course with, called Sam, He's was always further ahead in his photo journey than me. And, you know, once I started to take it seriously, he explained very eloquently the exposure triangle. And, I've heard you talking about this before when we talk about light, photographers talking about light, good light, bad light. I didn't didn't know what they were talking about, and he'd explained it to me many times, but I'm someone that I need some of those things explained to me So many times I mean it literally took me years years of watching probably hundreds of hours of videos It'd been explained over and over again to me years before I really got it and got those things Obviously i'm still learning Now, but some of those basics, I would say that I've got now, but isn't that the thing about photography? I mean, it just never ends, which is one of the things why I love it because no one knows it all because I mean, it's just completely and it's vast, the each different type of photography, each different discipline and break that down. And each of those has got something you need to learn and many elements, different skill sets. So I was just beginning to get it and on the workshop. I mean, he wasn't there to teach us how to set our cameras up. Right. It's just assumed that you know, how to do that. And as an aside, maybe, a year ago, six months ago or something, I did quite a lot of portfolio reviews and I'm quite new in my photography journey and I did these portfolio reviews showing them some of the work from a couple of different projects that I've been working on you know, they were talking, they were asking me questions and we were discussing it all of these different photographers and nobody said anything like, I just kept saying, is this a good photo? And they were like, of course it's, you know, course you can take good photos. We're way beyond that, we're talking about the story that you're trying to tell and other things. And so I've still been a little bit insecure about whether my photos are any good. And, I'd talk to my friends that have, studied photography at university. I'm like, what did I miss? I'm kind of jealous that you spent three years studying this. And they all say to me, you didn't really miss a lot. You know, just like, here's this book, read that. That's basically it, I'm not sure if that's true, but that's what they said to me. Maybe maybe just trying to make me feel nice But

Raymond Hatfield:

It probably

Gary Williams:

I think we're all a little bit, we're all aware of the gaps we have in our skill set Right, and of course imposter syndrome is huge I think for all of us or certainly present all of us unless we're complete sociopaths. So Yeah with Martin that was just a given it was more about Transcription how we see the world and how we're able to capture that with a photograph.

Raymond Hatfield:

If you had to boil down what it was that you learned there, what it is that you're trying to tell in a photograph, what would that

Gary Williams:

I love Martin as a person and I love his work, but I was talking to my friend about this the other day. Like, on the one hand, he didn't teach us a lot in the sense that, I mean, we sat down with him in a classroom every day, make a presentation, or we'd do a show and tell with different pictures. Of course I learned some stuff. But, he wasn't there kind of as a lecturer. Even though, I mean, he used to teach, it was, good to pick his brains and just to have him there, but I, can't honestly tell you, Raymond, that I had these few sort of genius nuggets that I took away. I mean, he would give us exercises every day, which for me I found very stressful because it's like, okay, here's a theme or pick a theme and, I want you to go out and take photographs of this. Thanks. And you've got two hours and then come back and we're going to, show your best six photos, I found that very stressful because I was running around the clock was ticking and I was like, Oh my God, Oh my God, there's so many places to see. And so what am I going to do? How am I going to do this? I did not really enjoy it. It was kind of good for me in a way, because it's good to be told what you've got to do and it's not stuff that you would normally do. But one thing I actually learned from that is the patience that is required to do street photography well. And in my opinion, most street photography that I see online is terrible. I mean it's just so dull and I understand why because it's really hard. I mean I think it's just so hard to get because we're all waiting for the light, the composition and the moment, but the moment in street photography, I mean, you could be waiting all day and still not get it. You could be like standing at a corner, say everything's looking great here. I'm just waiting for this, isn't this to come into place? And it never does. And you can have very disappointing days and it's just, street photography when it's done well, I love it. I just find it joyous, but I don't have the patience to do it. Well, most of my street photography is rubbish. And I haven't got the patience to be looking at other people's photos of whatever they did because they were walking around for four hours trying to fill the time and they just take some pictures of a bin bag and a bit of a building and the back of someone's head and whatever people doing stuff it's not enough right it's fine i mean i applaud it and that we all need to be out taking pictures as you always say you know we've got to get out there right so yes let's get out there and the more you're out there the more pictures are taken that's always a good thing but when we need to be honest with ourselves that the stuff that we're really needs to be worth sharing with the world. But, those kind of pictures have few and far between. And what I've found that I actually like doing is I love doing street portraiture. Because I was never comfortable kind of skulking around corners, sneakily taking pictures. It's not that I'm shy about it. I'm not. I mean, of course, I've got to get in the zone. I've got to get into a frame of mind to do that. I was, you know, I had my Bruce Gilden face and I was, reading a lot of it. I love his work. So I made myself, I went out with a flash with my camera one night in Chinatown in Soho in London. Um, And I was doing a Bruce Gilden. I got a lot of abuse that night. I really, I had

Raymond Hatfield:

I

Gary Williams:

at me like people should why why were you taking my phone? What did I had a lot of confrontation more than I've ever had any time before and of course I had to I'm not a confrontational person so I'm not shy, but I really have to get myself in a frame of mind to kind of do that. I can't be just out kind of shopping or having a little walk with a camera in my pocket and start doing any kind of street photography actually, even if I'm just doing the stuff that I'm comfortable with. I need to be in the zone, right? I need to become that person, really. So, I became Bruce Gilden for a night. And now I know how much abuse Bruce Gilden must have got over the years. And, I got some interesting pictures and it was fun. But, you know, it's not really what I want to do. And I really, I love doing street portraiture because I really like the interaction. I love seeing someone who's interesting, stopping them, asking if I can take their picture. They say yes. And then I take the pitch, and we have a little moment, and sometimes we might chat for a couple of minutes, or sometimes they just go straight on. But I love that. I mean, for me, that's just like a gift, like a completely random encounter. And a lot of the work in the main project, which I'm sure we'll get onto, this Camden Passage project, is focused in a very small street in London. And I've been photographing there for over four years now. I've taken a roundabout. Well, five and a half thousand photographs in there is a very small street and it's tiny, but I've stopped so many people on that street to take photographs. Nice little encounter. The photos might end up on the Instagram page or whatever, but some of those photos are now in an outside exhibition. Some of them are in a book. And who would have known? You know, I just think it's magical that someone's just going about their day, walking down the street, I happen to be there, chat to them, have a nice conversation, take a picture, and then a few years later, it's on a massive poster in an outdoor exhibition, right? Isn't that cool? You know, like, you just don't know what's going to happen with these, encounters. I think that's kind of magical. I'd much rather do that than take sneaky pictures. But that's just me, because I like chatting to people, you know, and I enjoy that. And, of course, everybody's got their thing. So, from the Martin Parr workshop, that's one of the things realized. That I like doing street portraiture. I do not have the patience to take the kind of street photography that Martin Parr does. And, in fact, to be honest, I mean, my favorite Martin Parr photography is often the stuff where it's projects where he's going to, one of those country fairs and people are showing their gigantic vegetables and things, you know. I love taking pictures of people kind of in their environments. That's another thing that I learned as well. Whether that is a shop where they work, particularly if it's their own shop. And this is something that I realized from that trip in India because I was fascinated by these guys that they have these little shops we were in the old part of Delhi and You know, it's this winding little tiny sort of maze these streets With little tiny sort of alcoves and shops all over the place with one bulb and a few chickens in the back and well, whatever they're doing, sometimes they're selling notepads Sometimes it's fast food. Sometimes it's tea. Sometimes it's fabrics, but these people these shopkeepers are completely surrounded by that. They're drowning in their life, really. This is where they spend most of their time, probably. It's bed and this little shop. And they're surrounded by their stuff. There's so much of them represented in this little tiny space. And I loved those pictures. I love taking pictures of those people. Again, having a nice little chat. I went into fish market area, one morning and had a great time. Like, I spent maybe 20 minutes in this Well, I guess it was a shop, but it's where they were sort of preparing the fish as well But they were just lovely people. I got some great pictures for me That was a rewarding experience rather than kind of loitering outside thinking Okay, let me wait until somebody buys a fish and you know that come out with a blue carrier bag, because it's going to match that blue sign that's on the side and the light, they walk over there and they're going to catch that light. I don't have the patience for that. I'd rather spend that time having a nice chat with someone, you know, I wish I did have the patience and I'd get some lovely pictures, I'm sure. But like that interaction. So yeah, sometimes important that you don't want to do, as it is the things you do want to do, right. And I guess that's all part of finding yourself as a photographer and finding your own And one thing, as I'll probably forget to mention later, and you talked about getting off manual and stuff. It's kind of interesting, isn't it, that, like, as time's gone on, yes, I was shooting in manual all the time. And then I was like, well, why am I doing this? Because it's particularly doing weddings, I might as well just shoot in aperture priority. And there's a lot of time now I'm doing weddings. I'm in full auto because I want all of my energy to be looking for that moment. I don't want to be faffing around with anything at all. The camera's amazing. It's going to do everything that I want it to do. You know, if it's the reception and people are having drinks, I don't need to worry about what the camera's doing. What I'm worried about is all my attention focused on when that moment's gonna happen. There's so much snobbery in photography, isn't there? I mean, I don't see it so much now maybe because I just don't talk to those kind of people now, but in the beginning, you know I'll be reaching out to all sorts of photographers and I really sensed a lot of that whole primes or zooms, people would ask you that question and that instantly put you in a category. Okay, you're zoom So, you're not as good as these, you know as good as me because I'm on primes or you manual Do you shoot in man? Well, yeah, and I shoot aperture priority Okay, you can't be as good as me then because I shoot in manual. I hate all that stuff and there's a lot of that I mean as much as the photography community and I mean, this is so open and so welcoming and so willing to share. I've met so many wonderful photographers. They were brilliant. And it's like they just want to share and they just want everybody to be better. You know, I love that. But there is another level of photographer, perhaps not as accomplished of some of the people I'm talking about that There's a little bit of snobbishness there about, I don't know, you know, trying to put people in a kind of a pecking order to see how good you are, based on the way that you use your camera, which is, I hate that.

Raymond Hatfield:

I agree. and it's difficult for me as well because it's like At the end of the day, the ends justify the means, right? If you look at the photo and it's a great photo, that's all that should matter. It shouldn't matter, what mode it was shot in, whether it was a prime or zoom, it shouldn't matter. I'm stuck kind of in this position to where it's like, when I'm trying to help photographers to learn photography, I feel like it's a much longer road to learn photography back. If you're unwilling to get out of auto, sometimes

Gary Williams:

You've got to learn it. I would say you've got to learn manual. You've got to know how to do it. But once you know how to do it, then it's you

Raymond Hatfield:

then do whatever you

Gary Williams:

need to do, right? To take good pictures. If you want to use a massive zoom on a wedding, if you want to use I think we should all know the stuff. But then we can make the decision. And if once we know it, we choose to not use it, whatever it is, we choose to shoot on some, very basic, whatever, some 10 year old camera, whatever, whether it's film, whether it's digital, it's like, yeah, if you're taking good, just be judged on the work, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

absolutely. Yeah, I'm right there. Same page as you. let's get into your project though, because candid passage, when you first came to me with this, I thought this was interesting cause I feel like there's been a number of projects that were kind of similar, but then as I dove more into what it was that you were doing, I realized, Oh, that's not the case at all. This is like a really unique, thing. So I guess my first thought was, When I first saw the photo, something like a people of New York, right? but again, like as I got deeper into what it is that you were doing, it's much more local, it's much more community based than just geographically based. And that seemed much more interesting to me, much more fulfilling as a photographer and also as a viewer of the images. So, I'm not from the UK, right? I'm not from across the pond. Tell me. What is Camden Passage? And like, what drew you to this place to start taking photos of its Patrons? Of the people there? Like, tell me about this.

Gary Williams:

What drew me there is because it's convenient. It's very close to where I live and I'm too lazy to go too far. So

Raymond Hatfield:

No,

Gary Williams:

out of the way,

Raymond Hatfield:

that's really important. That's actually a really important thing. So yeah,

Gary Williams:

Actually, I'm not lazy. Anybody who knows me, I am certainly not lazy, but, it's like having a gym, right? If I've got to go too far to go to the gym, I'm just never going to go. If, if I can just, like right now, I walk like 10 minutes, I'm at the gym, then I'm gonna go, I've got no excuse, and it's the same for these photos. Camden Passage is not in Camden, there's an area not far from where I live called Camden, and many visitors to London will know Camden because it's a cool, groovy area and a lot of people like to go there, it's kind of on the tourist map. Camden Passage, I don't know why it's called Camden Passage, but it's not actually in Camden, it's near Tube called, Angel. Not far from King's Cross Station, which people may know. It is a very small street. I don't know how long it is actually. I always say to people it's very small, you would walk down it in, I'm gonna say, five minutes or something like that. It's a little old, quite historical street. It's very charming, kind of cobbled, paved, the houses are old. You know, it's not a new development. It's got a lot of charm there. And it's popular locally. Tourists go, but people like going locally. And I've lived around here for about 20 years, so I knew of it. But, I would say the biggest thing that I learned from this project, that I'd love to share with your listeners, is that you do not have to go far. to take great pictures and to

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, hold on. I really want to get into this. I really do. I really do. Yeah, but I still, no, I mean, I want to get into that element, right? the staying local, but I still want to get a full picture of what is Camden

Gary Williams:

Okay, so Camden Patch is a little street. It runs parallel to a big kind of high street, which is very popular. Low people come from different parts of London to go to this particular high street because there's a lot of theaters, a lot of bars, restaurants and stuff. It's a very happening, great, and then this little street is parallel to that, very close to that. If you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't stumble across it. it.

Raymond Hatfield:

makes it unique?

Gary Williams:

it became a kind of major, street, a major place for the antiques business, I think in the sixties, it was nothing particularly special about it for many years. It became a little bit run down and then it started to, become this sort of center for the antiques trade. And it was really busy and really on the map for that. And buyers would come from all over the world, including the United States. To London buying antiques and there were certain like two or three or four Places that they would go on their trips on their buying trips be buyers dealers would come and they'd come and they're just like buy tons of stuff they'd come with trucks, and just fill up the trucks or they'd be putting containers and shipped back to wherever they were going and That was it's really it's heyday But as time's gone on, tastes have changed, and people don't really buy antiques like they used to. So, it has adapted and changed, and there are still antique traders there, that were there then, but there are now lots of, baristas and artisans, bakeries and restaurants, vintage clothing stores. There's an amazing ice cream store, my favourite place. Um, there's a frame as there's a, somebody selling antique, glassware. There's a sushi place. There's lots of stuff packed in this little street. And what else gives it a lot of charm as well is that at least two days a week, actually more like three or four days a week, there is a market. And so there are, uh, people, market traders that come with their, I mean, I don't know how much they pay, but it's obviously not very much. And they set up their, could just be one table or a bunch of tables, whatever they set, they set themselves up and they're selling their stuff, whatever it is, this weird and wonderful stuff. Maybe it's some vintage clothing. Maybe there's a guy there that sells, like rubber stamps. That's all he sells, but if you want a rubber stamp, you go see this guy, you know? so you never know quite what you're going to find down there. There's really high end, like really high end gallery, quality antiques still. Or there's just kind of bric a brac stuff you can pick up for a few pounds, and everything in between. So that gives it a lot of buzz. It gives it a lot of charm and a lot of charisma, and it attracts a lot of interesting people. So does that give you an idea

Raymond Hatfield:

does. Yeah, of course, again, it sounds like it's a very popular location across the pond, but, I just wanted to really wrap my head around what this place is like so that we can kind of move forward as far as who are the people there, because this is kind of the focus of your project, right, is the people. so. You said that it's a quite eclectic mix of high end stuff to the brick brack stuff. Is there one type of person who goes

Gary Williams:

No, and that's why I

Raymond Hatfield:

as eclectic?

Gary Williams:

it attracts, real fashionistas and people that are really dressed to impress and they want to be seen. And then it attracts people that just live nearby. They just want to go out and, buy some stuff or get a coffee that, they're not there to be looked at, and it attracts tourists. It attracts kind of everybody in between. Even the traders there, you know, you've got some of these shops. With let's say some of the antique dealers who are always very smart and they're beautifully dressed in their suits all the time. And then you've got other, the market traders who are not very smartly dressed and they just show up in their van and they've got all their stuff and they probably sleep in their van. I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean? Like the, it's just a real, cross section of people. and because it attracts quite a few tourists as well, that brings a different kind of energy to it and a different kind of look. So, there isn't really a typical person in Camden Passage, which makes it varied and exciting.

Raymond Hatfield:

your project is all about street portraits of the people of Camden Passage, is that right?

Gary Williams:

Well, mostly. when I came back from the trip to Camden Passage, in India, with Martin and I started photographing these shopkeepers there that I realized was a thing. So actually the project came about because between my home and Camden Passage, there's that kind of high street I was telling you about. So I just started to go into the high street and just started photographing the people working in shops. just ordinary shops. Not big multinational chains, right, because they're not so interesting. But independent shops. And they'd nearly always say yes, and let me take their picture. And I would enjoy the chat with them. And for me, and this came much more so as time went on, particularly in Camden Passage. here for a long time. You know, I live in a big city. you can feel very anonymous sometimes, you know, I've lived in my street, the same house here for years, and I don't hardly know anybody in the street, And I there's the places that I go to regularly my dry cleaners or the you know The coffee place and I see them there and we'd recognize each other and it's a hey, how you doing? Thank you very much. It's a very transactional kind of relationship, but particularly in Camden Passage. I was there all the time shooting and I got to know people well and a lot of them have become good friends and I've never felt more connected to my community than before, even though I lived here for many, many years before I was actually doing these projects. So I love just going into the shops that are just near where I live and having a chat and telling them I'm a photographer and asking if I take their picture for a project. And most people are very happy to let me do that. And, I was working my way down this high street, got to Camden Passage and I thought, Oh yeah, I forgot how great this place is and decided to focus on. That, on that little street, and that's where I stayed for Four years.

Raymond Hatfield:

Four years.

Gary Williams:

I did go home

Raymond Hatfield:

going to be my next question. Oh, good. Good. yeah. You got to have a place to sleep. Yeah. of course. Nice warm blankets. with a photo project like this. does the idea come first and then the photos come later? Or did you start shooting this because you loved it? And then you said to yourself,

Gary Williams:

hey wait a

Raymond Hatfield:

second I think this is a project

Gary Williams:

Yeah, I started shooting. Because I loved it, and bear in mind, I'm new to this, so, I was well aware that really, I didn't go to study photography at university, but I always said that Camden Passage was my university. That's where I studied photography. And for me, every day was a gift like that. Because every time, it's still the same now, actually, I learn every time I go out shooting, but every time I would go out photographing, I was just practicing, right? And, talking about light, well, I got to know the light in that street really well. And how it works at different times of the day, and I would know, well, if I face someone in this direction at four o'clock in October, that's going to look better than facing them in the other direction, or putting them around the corner, or whatever. And I started just by taking all of these photos. I started to slowly start to understand How to take better photos, right? Because I'd take my pictures, I'd go home, and I'd go, They don't look very good. But, ah, that one looks good. What's going on there? And I'd realize the difference. I was taking pictures of, street portraiture, but people in, the independent shop owners as well. And often, they were trickier, right? Because they're busy. So I'd go in, hey, can I take your picture? And they'd say, well, you know, I'm kind of in the middle of working right now, but maybe come back later, whatever. And I'd be like, okay, whatever. Some of them would say, yeah, it sounds great, I'm up for it, but why don't you come like on our day off, we'll come in on our day off and do it properly. And that for me was like exciting and terrifying because I treated those like as if I was being paid. I treated every day like I was being paid actually. I used to think, okay, I'm going out to shoot now, I'm gonna do this as though I'd been commissioned by some magazine to take pictures in Camden Passage. And particularly when it was arranged. Now, I should say in the same time, not since the beginning, but as time went on, I eventually decided to become a photographer, right? Because other stuff was going on as well. I got a studio in my home and started doing like actor and business headshots. I started doing In my home. And that's when I taught myself through YouTube and other resources and friends how to use lights and flash. and I would love that. I mean, I would just spend hours and hours on my own just playing around with settings and stuff and just every modifier and taking all, I just, I would get lost in that. So I was kind of learning about that at the same time. So I would go into these, some of these places in Camden Passage, and I would take lights with me, which I'd never done before. I'd never taken any gear with me to a shoot, because I'd never done any shoots before, because no one had ever paid me to do that before. And, I thought, what a great opportunity to learn. I mean, it's like gold, that I'm, I'm not paying models. this isn't pretend. This is a person or actual people that have expectations. But it's great because the expectation can't do it, because they're not paying me, right? So if the photos are awful, well, I'm embarrassed and I lose face, but you know, that's it, right? not paying me anything. So, I would go in with my stuff and again just doing more and more of those and just learning what I'm thinking of one now And I mean luckily we got away with some some of the pictures turned out nice But there's one place an amazing like this cave this archive of incredible art that this guy's got sort of stored there and went down and the light in the basement was terrible and I was taking these pictures, and they're really not very good. I just didn't really know what I was doing, and they're not very good. Fortunately, we got some other pictures which are good, but it's those kind of times. I still think about that now and think, oof, that was a lucky escape and what I learned from that, but I could learn in safety, in a safe environment, so that, subsequent to that, I have been paid, and I am paid, to go out and take just those kind of photos. Right? Because people know me for that, so that's become a thing that I do. And if people want that, then they book me for it. And now I show up, and I'm not nervous. I mean, there's always that little thing, right? Where you think, oof, I hope things are on my side. I hope there's not going to be too One thing I have learned as a professional photographer, is that it's never all on your side, right? It's just problem solving, right? There's always stuff. You never go, wow, everything was perfect. today, right? It's never like that. but now I can show up to a shoot and I'm not thinking, Oh my God, please, please, please, I hope I don't embarrass myself. I hope I get away with this. I'm kind of reasonably confident that it's gonna be okay. But I got to that point only because of this project and the opportunities that it gave me to just do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

It sounds, incredible. I really love this idea of getting out and creating these portraits of people on the street. I got two questions for you. The one is kind of what was your goal for this book, right? or I guess it's a project in the beginning. That's always important intention. I have found it when it comes to photo projects is probably one of the things that gets overlooked the most. So I'm always excited to, hear what another photographer's intention was with a project. So let's start there. When you got home, how do you know when you were looking at the photos whether you did a good job or you missed the mark?

Gary Williams:

Well, I was trying to capture nice pictures, but not from the point of view of like technically nice. That was hopefully a given, but I'm trying to capture the essence of the people that I'm photographing. I'm trying to capture an interesting portrait of somebody. That's one thing that I learned from Martin Parr is to stop people smiling, Gary, because it's, if they wanted to smile, they could smile, and I was gonna make him laugh or whatever. and I agree with him. I mean, sometimes. people smiling and laughing. That's just the way they are, right? So you're capturing them, but it's the most interesting pictures for me are where they're not smiling, where there's something it just it's, I don't know, it's a little bit more mysterious or there's just a little bit something that they're not quite giving us, right? It's a bit more of a blank canvas. So I will be looking for interesting Photos, I did not start this project thinking, okay, I'm going to do this for four years. I'm then going to have a book and I'm going to have an exhibition. Not at all. I just started taking pictures because I wanted to, a project, I wanted to get out there and take pictures and I needed some focus. And for me, just going out doing street photography, it's just too vague. it was just, what am I going to do? Okay. London's amazing. And there's so many, bustling, interesting streets to go. So I can go to Soho. You know where everybody goes and take pictures of whatever, you know Chinatown or the kind of dodgy parts of Soho the characters that are around there But I just found that boring, I just found it boring and I haven't as I said before I haven't got the patience so I don't know if I can say it now this thing that I you know This big takeaway is that you don't have to go far You to make good pictures and to do good work and to have a project because I think we're all guilty of this, right? We're all guilty of this, right? we say, Oh, if only I had that lens, my pictures would be great. If I had that camera, my pictures would be great. If I lived in New York, because it's boring where I live, nothing happens. If I lived in that city, or if I lived in London, everyone in New York thinks, Wow, if I lived in London, I'd get some really interesting pictures. Everybody in London wants to go to New York. everybody in India wants to come to either of those places, and we all want to go there because it's interesting to us, but for them it's not because it's just boring and it's every day. Like we all think, we go somewhere exotic, that's it's just easy, right? It's just too easy. I mean, and also it's a little bit ignorant. I think that, everyday life just seems like we're going to take better pictures because people are wearing different clothes or the vibe is different or the streets look different. it's more interesting to us because, oh, look, that's a crazy telegraph pole full of wires, you know, but that's, What I realized with Camden Passage, when I started doing this, is okay, I'm on the street, so I'm doing these street portraits in this, so that's fine, but then Because I'm spending more time there. I start to build relationships up with some of the shopkeepers and so I take pictures of them And I get very friendly with them and I start going to parties and their houses and stuff and I become kind of accepted as A part of this community which then gets me on another level So one of my favorite pictures in the book is a picture of a woman called Annie It was she'd had a vintage store kind of a famous vintage store on Camden Passage for many many years Eventually, they're putting the rent up. It was closing Her last day actually our last hour in the store almost everything had gone. She was just sitting in an empty room And she's looking kind of bewildered and she was always a very vibrant happy person, she didn't really want me to take that photo and she only kind of let me because we were friends right and she kind of trusted me And I knew that that was I'd kind of arranged it with her and I took it made a special trip there You For that time, there's no way I could have done that just if I was passing through, right? That was kind of privileged access. it's like looking down at something at a microscope and enhancing it. let's go to 10 times magnification. Let's go to 20. Let's go to 50. Let's go to 100. and I see this, there's so much to photograph. And anybody that says, yeah, I live in a boring place. There's nothing happens here. It does. I mean it happens everywhere and there's just so much going on if you take the time to look. there's a fellow called John Ruskin who was an artist in the Victorian era here in the UK. I think he was one of the founder members of the Royal Academy, I think. But, he was a big believer in, everybody having access to art and art classes. And he started the sort of art classes for the working classes. So they'd be working in their mills or in their coal mines six days a week. And on a Sunday for their recreation, he would organize, I guess, they were all over the country, these art classes. And one of the things he liked to say to people was, don't worry about what your drawing looks like. The important thing is that you're just looking. like if you're going to draw this leaf, what colour is it exactly? What colours, what are you looking at there? what is the shape of it? we can go somewhere and we see an interesting tree, right? And we say, oh look, get our phone out, take a picture of this nice tree, right? But to really sit and look and look. Really look at that tree and study it. I mean, you could be there for a year just working on that tree, right? Because it's changing all the time and the light's changing all the way through the day, the seasons are changing, what's around the tree is changing, you're changing, the way that you perceive it changes as well. I mean, there's a whole lifetime of project just there and it's a tree. So, imagine someone's, shop, or, a home, or a little street. I mean, it's just endless. Particularly a street like that, because there's new people coming through all the time. But, I mean, there are some people, like, for example, because I knew people in the street, I got invited to a coronation street party. You know what that is? So, whereas when the king, King Charles, was coronated, was made king, because he was the prince, when the queen died, he was made king, so he's coronated, it's the ceremony, and it's kind of a traditional thing in the UK, they probably do similar things in different parts of the world, where there's a street party, so basically, people set up some tables in the street, and they get some food, and all the neighbours come out, and It's great because, again, people that perhaps have lived next to each other for years and they've never actually really had a proper conversation other than good morning, right? And they come out and everybody brings some food and some drinks and everyone's out there in the street enjoying this festivity, right? And so it was a coronation street party. And, I mean, we don't do these all the time. Like, this is probably once every 60 years this happens. So it's, you know, don't get too excited.

Raymond Hatfield:

it's a rare occasion, yeah

Gary Williams:

And I'm taking pictures, because it's right next to Camden Passage. And there, I actually got some really nice pictures, some pictures which ended up in galleries and stuff. But I met a lady called Susan Daniel, who's a local resident, she lives just around the corner. And I asked if I could come to her house, she was just fabulous, she's an opera singer. can I go to her house and take some pictures? She said yes. And that was actually the start of another project which I'm doing now called at home, which is photographing interesting people in their homes. I've taken lots of pictures since of Susan, she's in the book as well. just her, just this one person, I mean, I could spend, you know, Just years photographing her and what her kind of the periphery of her life, she's You know grows roses and she goes all over the world judging rose competitions. And I mean, she's just a fascinating person The reason I say interesting people in their homes is because some of the people in the project are famous and well known. But they certainly don't have to be. What I'm interested in is interesting people. But in my experience, almost everyone's interesting. all lived a life, and they don't have to live in some kind of palace or some amazing home. You know some of the most interesting people live in like a pigsty, you know, they live in very humble homes There's mess everywhere, but that's character and they're people and I'm interested in those and It's that I'm curious, I'm endlessly curious about people and things and I think that's what drives me and So going back to the Camden Passage project. I didn't start thinking this is going to be a book in an exhibition I was just enjoying doing it. I I I was selfishly doing it because I was learning and I was using it as an opportunity to learn. I was selfishly doing it because I enjoyed meeting people in my community and becoming a part of the community. Because if I walk down that street now, it could take me an hour to walk down because I know everybody there, right? And I love that because, you know, as a photographer, we can often spend half our life sitting in front of a computer, editing pictures, and I could always think, you know what, if I want some company, if I want to get fresh air, and just a couple of conversations, right, as we all need, I can just go down there any time I like, and I know that I can sit down and have some nice conversations with people. So that was the reason for doing it. And it was only as time went on that I thought, hmm, I think there's a few good pictures here. I started an Instagram account for it, and I thought, well, maybe, there's something here. And I did, A book making class just for curiosity with someone. And to do that, I printed off some six by fours of some of this work and he helped kind of, put together this kind of draft maquette of a book. And then having this tangible thing in my hand, I thought, Oh, this feels like a, this feels like something. And look, these pictures look really cool, And that was when I thought, I think I should do a book of this. And then after the book. then it was actually a local business organization approached me and said, we'd like to do an exhibition of this work. And then they got a big bank involved to sponsor it. And the exhibition happened. for me, I think that's probably the right way to do it. I think it's like, if you're doing something for the right reasons, I was just doing it for the passion and the joy of it. And then let's just see where it goes. if I'm doing something for the money or for the glory, I think the intentions are just wrong. I think the right reason is just to follow your heart and do what you love to do. Find your own project, find your own passion. Whether it's photographing trees or insects, doing, macro photography, doing, buildings, doing just shapes and shadows or people or, candids. Whatever it is, just find the thing that turns you on, because that's the hardest bit. The rest of it's easy. Right? It's always harder in life, right? Just finding your passion. I mean, you already know that photography is your passion, then lucky you, right? Because most people go through their whole lives and they die and they never knew what they actually wanted to do with their lives, right? I mean, most people, right, most of us don't know what we want to do. And if you can find your passion, so let's say you've already found it, it's photography, but if within that you can find what really turns you on in photography, and you'll find that just by going out and doing stuff and doing a bit of everything, once you find that Then you're golden, right? Just enjoy that. Indulge that and don't worry about the work because the work will just happen because you're just going to be making work because you're just going to be having fun doing what you love to do. And then eventually you think. Wow, you know, I've got some nice pictures here. Maybe you just make a zine, maybe you just print ten copies off, and have one for yourself and give them to a few friends and family. That's a beautiful thing. I mean, that is a wonderful thing, to see your work printed out like that. Maybe you just print one or two of the, three pictures out, and put them on a wall in a frame in your house, as part of this project that you've been doing. I think that's beautiful. Or you find a, A local coffee shop or somewhere that's amenable to you putting on an exhibition. what's for them to lose? You're going to pay for the thing. so you invest a few hundred dollars in getting some nice prints done. And you say, look, I'm going to stick them on the wall. It'll, it's going to look nice. You've got an exhibition. I mean, in a tiny way, it changes the world. people come in, they see something. Things are happening because you created something. people are going to have a slightly different experience in that coffee shop. A slightly different day, a slightly different conversation. Because of something you created which came from your heart and from your camera. I think that's a beautiful thing. And I don't think there's really, Very much stopping any of us doing that. Certainly not money, certainly not technology, because we don't need fancy cameras. We know that. And I mean, okay, time. But really the thing is just find your passion and indulge it.

Raymond Hatfield:

I could keep talking to you for like hours longer There's so many more things that I wanted to dive into to talk about But I think that you wrapped that up perfectly like with a bow sign seal delivered. That was fantastic honestly I really hope the listeners go back and re listen to that. And I hope that it gives them the courage or the energy to just go out and shoot, right? thing.

Gary Williams:

things I wanna say if we have time. First of all, I want to tell you, I didn't tell you this at the beginning, even before you started recording. I am so honored to be on your podcast. I'm such a fan of yours. Like I'm a bit kind of. Hero worshipping you right now because I love what you do. I love your podcast I do and I love the guests that you have on and I love that I mean how you can talk when you don't have a guest and you do like a 45 minute monologue on something I mean, I think this guy I don't think he's even editing this thing. It's just like this stream of consciousness It's so good what you do and I still you know talking about the exposure triangle just the other day a week ago. I was listening to again to your episode when you're talking about the exposure triangle. And I thought, Oh, I'm just going to skip this. I know this. And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to keep listening because it's always good to be reminded of stuff, right? So it's just great what you do and you, present, really well. And the other thing is I've forgotten because I just got so carried away with praising you. I've forgotten the other thing, which is no doubt amazing. Anyway, thank you for

Raymond Hatfield:

I do the same thing. Yeah.

Gary Williams:

Oh, I was going to say was I just love this thing about our community that we all kind of help each other. And so if anybody listening to this, if they find me online and they want to pick my brains or ask me any questions, I'm definitely, I would not consider myself an expert at all, but I have done this project, I've made a book. And if there's anything that can be of use to somebody and they want to reach out to me, please do. And I'd be just very happy to help however I can.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, well, tell us we can reach out. Tell us where we can find more images of Camden Passage and learn more about everything that you have to

Gary Williams:

The easiest place to start is my website, which is Gary Williams, one R-G-A-R-G-A-R-Y, Gary williams.co.uk, and you'll find links to the Camden Passage Project and the at home project that I'm doing. You'll see there that most of the work that I do to make money is in wedding photography. We'll do that in another podcast

Raymond Hatfield:

That's another one.

Gary Williams:

and you'll find the in, well, the Instagram is my name, Gary Williams Photography and. This is Camden Passage, but you'll find all of that from the website carywilliams. co. uk

Raymond Hatfield:

I love it. Such a simple idea, but so, so, so impactful. Let's go ahead and recap what we have learned today. Number one, pursue those passion projects. if you take Gary's advice to heart and you dive into the projects that, will ignite your passion, whether it's photographing your local community or trying something entirely new, when you focus on what you love, that will always lead to just more meaningful work, more impactful work, something that is going to mean more to you. Takeaway number two is to create tangible products. Yes, I love this. Gary made a book. You can do the same. You can create other tangible products like prints, and even consider hosting an exhibition. Gary also did that as well. this not only solidifies your images as something real, right, something that you can actually hold with your hands, But it also makes your work make a positive impact on either your subjects or the community, whatever it is that you're photographing. when I was shooting weddings during the dinner, when I had nothing to shoot, nobody wants photos of them eating, you know, broccolini, I would print out like 20 instax prints from the day. And then I would put them in a little black book. And then I'd give that to the couple at the end of the night, having something physical is so much more meaningful than simply. Making a teaser post the next day on Facebook. And lastly, build relationships with your subjects. if you can go beyond the surface level interactions, like Gary did with shop owners, you can develop genuine connections with these people. And then, that right there is going to lead to being able to photograph them more intimately and create more compelling portraits where you can showcase that person's, essence, and their story. These shop owners have a wildlife, a rich life. And being able to capture that in a photograph takes the ability to build a relationship. I want to hear your biggest takeaway from today's interview with Gary Williams. And I'd love to hear about it in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community, which you can join right now over at beginnerphotopod. com forward slash. group. That is it for today. Until next time. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.