The Beginner Photography Podcast

507: Mary Fisk-Taylor: PPA President Reveals Secrets to Photo Business Success

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Mary Fisk-Taylor, an inspiring family portrait photographer and former president of the Professional Photographers of America (PPA). Mary discusses the pitfalls of comparison in the photography industry, stressing the importance of setting and focusing on personal goals. She shares insightful stories about adapting her business during the pandemic, highlighting the shift to online consultations and maintaining quality service. 

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Overcome Comparison: Avoid comparing yourself to others; focus on your unique goals and progress.
  • Maintain Quality: Ensure your online sales and consultation processes mirror the quality of in-person experiences.
  • StoryBrand Framework: Make your clients the hero by telling a relevant and compelling story in your marketing.
  • Adapt and Thrive: Use downtimes to refine your business, focusing on development and leveraging modern tools.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Refine Online Sales Process: Create a structured virtual consultation script to maintain high-quality client interactions. Prepare physical sample kits to send to clients, enhancing the virtual experience.
  2. Develop Client-Centered Marketing: Craft a brief story loop that makes your client the hero and addresses their needs. Update your website to reflect this narrative, ensuring clarity and engagement.
  3. Participate in Professional Communities: Join the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) to access resources, support, and educational events. Engage in local photography groups for networking and peer feedback.
  4. Implement StoryBrand and Profit First: Read and apply the principles from "StoryBrand" and "Profit First" to create effective marketing and financial strategies. Introduce profit-first bank accounts to manage your finances better and ensure business sustainability.
  5. Enhance Virtual Experiences: Use Pro Select for virtual image displays to give clients a professional and immersive viewing experience. Incorporate personalized touches like curated sample boxes and custom snacks to make online consultations special.

RESOURCES:
Visit Mary Fisk-Taylor's Website - https://www.maryfisktaylor.com/
Follow Mary Fisk-Taylor on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maryfisktaylor/

Learn What Camera Settings to Use in our free guide!
https://perfectcamerasettings.com/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Mary Fisk Taylor:

I think a lot of times we think, Oh, technology makes it easier. Yes, it does. But that doesn't mean we should sacrifice the experience. Just because we were using a different instrument, a different tool, a different media, didn't mean that we would change our process. I think a lot of times we go, oh, it's online. So it's fine. You can be late or you can blow it off. No, it needed to still feel as rich and amazing. So when I'm on a zoom call with a client, I'm in a quiet space. I've got portraits behind me. I want them to have that same beautiful experience as if they were in my space.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we are chatting with family portrait photographer and PPA president, Mary Fisk Taylor about simple tips for photographers to earn more money with every shoot. But first, the beginner photography podcast, as you know, is brought to you by CloudSpot. Sell your photos through prints, products, and of course, digitals with ease. Set up a storefront in minutes and start earning more with every single gallery that you deliver. Grab your free forever account over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you are ready. I met today's guest, Mary, for the first time at imaging USA in January of 2020, where she packed an entire conference room, like a giant conference room. and when I say packed, like it was standing room only. and she was talking about how to be a successful photography business owner. And the whole room was absolutely glued to her. And as you'll hear, she's not only incredibly knowledgeable about running a successful photography business, but she's also just one of the most kind and down to earth people that you'll ever encounter. Now, this interview was originally recorded in 2021 as photographers were starting to come back to business after the pandemic. So we talk a lot about strategies that kept photographers afloat during the pandemic and what they did to thrive as well. And everything that she is still totally applicable today, so be listen. Mary is going to share how comparing yourself will not only steal your joy, but also stop all progress that you can make when learning photography. She's going to share the innovative ways that she adapted her business during the pandemic to not only survive, but again, actually make a difference. thrive and make her business stronger than ever. And she's going to teach you the powerful systems like StoryBrand and ProfitFirst that she implemented that made running a business not only easier than ever before, but again, stronger. It's all about building that foundation. And don't forget to join the conversation about this episode, over in the free beginner photography podcast community, which you can join right now over at beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group. That is it. Let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Mary Fisk. Taylor. Last time you were on was episode 196. And we talked about kind of sifting through the noise of being a photographer being in business. So for listeners who maybe are new during this last year, can you remind us how you got into photography in the first place?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Yeah, absolutely. So crazy. I accidentally ended up here. I swear by that, but, I, uh, had another career and I was getting married and I hired this awesome wedding photographer and had a great experience with my bridal portraits. And, then when my husband and I had our daughter she's 25. So 26 years ago, I looked him up and he had just opened his own studio and I started bringing Alexandra there and I had taken the leave for my job. And, I was really battling on whether I would go back to my full time corporate career or not, because there's a lot of hours and a lot of work and I didn't have any flexibility, all of these things that, I thought maybe working in a small business would give me, which is a joke, by the way. Um, I ended up starting helping out Jamie Hayes, who had a small studio here in Richmond, Virginia back in 95. And then I started working with him just a few days a week. And the next thing, you know, here I am 26 years later, still doing this.

Raymond Hatfield:

When you reached out to Jamie, first of all, I chatted with Jamie not too long ago when I had to call and reschedule this interview last time. And he was just like the nicest person I think I've ever talked to on the phone. He was, it was so great. But when you first reached out to him and you're like, Hey, I got this crazy idea here. Was that in the capacity of like, I want the camera, I also want to shoot or how did that go?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

I was actually in a sales session with him. We were at Alexandra's six month portrait session and I'm like, Hey, so where are those three month portraits? And he looked at me and he looked like just a super. He's like, I opened this business. I had no idea. I'm so behind. Do you know anybody who would like to maybe. Work part time and I went neat and I didn't mean to say it, but really honest with you, I was really struggling being a stay at home mom and that's something I felt so guilty about and wouldn't have admitted for many, many years. I'm fine with it now. I think people need to hear that. It's okay to struggle with that, by the way, dads and moms, both. So he said, Oh, wow. And then, so I just started, I went back then, of course we were film, right? So I was, I'd negatives and put together proof books and albums back the old day, the art leather, the, albums you would put together with the mats and the images and file and stuff. And then I started doing sales and he's like, Oh, just take over the sales because you're great. And I went to my first event, my first imaging USA, and I saw all these ribbons and necklaces that people were wearing. And I'm like, Oh, What's that? And I like shiny new things and I'm a level lover for sure. And I thought, wow, this is fantastic. So I started working, shooting at weddings and then next thing you know, I built my own client base, et cetera. So no, he did not. He just wanted somebody to like, to just do production is where I started.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is too funny. So when you finally did pick up the camera, you're like, I like those metals. I want some of those.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

And I started entering image competition and I started doing all that stuff. I always loved photography by the way. I didn't realize that Jamie's the one who said, Mary, I come to your house. You have pictures everywhere. I had a 35 millimeter camera and I always took pictures. I was yearbook photographer, all things, but I never thought I was an artist. Or photographer. And I still struggle with that, to be very honest with you. I still struggle with that word artist. but I do love creating with a camera. I also love selling and marketing. I love all of it. The business is where I'm obviously stronger. Jamie's such an amazing photographer, but I do love it. And I love the joy of delivering those goods to people and knowing they're going to bring them so much joy and longevity and a visual history of their family and things.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love that. I can hear it in your voice. Did you love it as well? I'm always so interested in this aspect because I think, especially for today's photographers, where photography is so readily available with our cell phones and what not. and my mom, I always remember, carried around the point and shoot 35mm camera. Yeah. And she always got photos, but that transition from I'm just gonna take snapshots to I'm going to take photos with intention is entirely different mindset. So for you as a photographer from the photography, I guess, aspect of it, what was probably the most challenging part for you to, getting in there to, be able to capture those images?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

I think for me, I hope I'm answering your question. I think from the get go, it was really hard for me to understand that what I took with the camera was a sellable product. That was a mindset I struck as, much of a business person as I've always been. I mean, all the things, I think for me to think that what I created with the camera was sellable and people would buy was huge. And that was a mind shift that I had to work through and I'll never forget. The second wedding I ever worked, I was the second photographer and I was photographing black and white. 35 millimeter, kind of around the bend and around the sides and that type of stuff. And the couple came in and they fell in love with one of my images and they bought back then a 20 by 24 deckle edge, which was a big product for us. It was an expensive product. It was one of our high end products. I mean, they spent back, you know, we're talking about 19, 96, 97, they spent like 27 or 2, 800 on it.

Raymond Hatfield:

My goodness.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

And that was the day that I went, Oh my gosh. Everything came together for me at that moment. They loved it. And then I thought, huh, so you get that feather in your hat. Right. And then the next sale and the next. So that was the piece that I struggled with in the beginning was that what I was creating was not just fun snapshots or whatever, that it was actually sellable art or sellable work that people wanted to display in their homes. The good news is, is that I was already a client, so I already believed in the value and I already believed in the investment because Jamie, when he opened the studio 27 years ago, I mean, we were charging back then he was charging. 125 for an eight by 10. So that was, you know what I mean? That was a long now granted, It was film and it was different. And actually could charge more back then in a lot of respects. but I was already investing in it. So I already got that part. That wasn't hard for me because I was a client first, but the fact that people bought what I did was, but I'll never forget that couple. I'll never forget the image. I can't remember what I photographed yesterday, but I remember that like it was seconds ago.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course, of course. Why do you think so many people, even like yourself, struggle to kind of overcome that, that mindset of, Oh, I'm not just taking a snapshot. This is something that, Others see a lot of value in

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Comparison. They don't say comparison is the thief of joy for no reason. I do think that especially our industry, and because we're such a visual world right now, you're online, you're seeing other, you're seeing your competitors, your neighbors, other people's work here and there. And we're always comparing ourselves to other people. I wish that young, newer photographers or people coming in or people that are in and been in for decades would stop. And just, put the blinders on. I mean, I think we talked about that last time about sifting through the noise, put those blinders on and pick your lane and just stick with it. I go out of my way to not compare my work to others, because it doesn't matter. The only thing I need to worry about is, my phone ringing or is my inbox full? As my schedule full are people buying is my bank account have money in it. If that's good, then I don't need to worry about what is going on out there because all I need to worry about is here. I think that takes an incredible amount of discipline that. A lot of us don't have, because especially the ones that are really leaning into being Jamie struggles with this more than me, because he's, very much an artist and he's always looking and comparing and checking and I'm like, you can't, it doesn't matter. Look at us. We're hitting our goals. We're meeting our average sale, our schedules full. That's what you need to worry about. Or it's not. Let's worry about this. Let's not worry about what XYZ did down the street. You know what I mean?

Raymond Hatfield:

think I'm similar to Jamie in that same sense of, it's like I always want to do better. I always wanted to take a better photo. But I think because photography is so subjective, It's hard to quantify what's a good image and what's a great image, especially after you've been doing it for a long time. So sometimes it feels like when you see something that's just a little bit new, maybe that you wouldn't have photographed, it seems like it's groundbreaking. Like this is something entirely different. So I'm right there with Jamie. That's a struggle right there. But it's hard. I know today, you're heavily involved with the PPA. Can you tell us about your history with the PPA and what your role is today? Yeah.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

great. So I have been a member of PPA since 1998. And I joined my state affiliate and PPA the same time. I believe in both of those organizations. My state is my fellowship and you know, where I kind of cut my teeth and some of the stuff I still teach and certainly practice my business today. I learned that my very first little guild meeting I went to in Virginia, PPA was huge for me because it's where I met my mentors. that have given me so much. So I've always been incredibly loyal and, I love image competition. So I got involved with that very early on. So that kept me involved and engaged. And then, years go by and I got asked to serve on different committees or groups and things and just volunteer. I got very involved several years ago when we had a charitable arm, we had PPA charities. From there I got asked to be on the board of directors. So here I am almost at the end of my tenure with that. I guess I have, this is my eighth year, ninth year on the board. I should know that. And I just can't even think of it. I guess about eight years, eight years. And, um, I'm currently the president of PPA, which has been an honor and no one's more surprised than me. Trust me. so I'm president this year and then next year I'll be the chair and then I'll be done with the board. But this year I get to travel around and talk and share with lots of different little small groups and affiliates as places where I started, which has been just amazing. I'm so relieved and grateful that I get to travel. So I get to just do all that cool stuff. So it's been really awesome.

Raymond Hatfield:

I can't imagine. The experiences that you have, and I'm sure talking with the photographers that you have as well. And I think I said this before we started recording, but I don't think that there's anybody who probably has a better thumb on the industry as a whole. As you you're definitely right there at the top. So today, one thing that I know is on the mind of a lot of photographers is what are we doing the situation when the world kind of shuts down? How do you move forward? And I think with a lot of new photographers, it's very difficult because you're just getting started. And to feel like you have the rug ripped out from under you. I know a lot of photographers who almost gave up on photography, because it's like, what's the point there? And especially when we're being pushed in the side hustle type world, when I don't think a lot of people truly do want that. So from your perspective, how did your own photography businesses, change? What happened to them and what happened to the industry as a whole there in the beginning?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Yeah. So I want to be forward thinking, but I'll just give a little brief, history. Obviously I have two studios or my main studio is my portrait studio. We'd still do some weddings. And that's the one I started with Jamie. I do have a second studio with my mom and sister, which is a volume studio. Last year, that was pretty much shut down. There was schools weren't in. So there weren't school pictures and all that stuff. So that's a whole nother beast. Right. And that was okay. Our portrait studio, obviously our weddings were done. Our weddings were just rescheduled or what have you. That means this year's busier than I want to be with weddings and events. But I'm grateful to have the business. What I realized immediately when we shut down and in Virginia, we were shut down as non essential for three months. So we were shut down longer than a lot of other, not everywhere, but we were one of the longer, longer, one shut down than other states because our governor is a doctor and he took a very scientific approach to it. So that was okay. I realized very quickly that I scrapped my entire marketing plan, which I was so proud. I had all done for the year. I'm a planner in that respect. So I realized I needed to find passive income. I do a lot of consulting and coaching with, studios, but I knew that was not going to be a good fit because people weren't working, they weren't making money. And I couldn't imagine trying to go out and sell my coaching. To people who weren't in business. That just seemed, that would just felt like I was being very deaf to the environment. So I leaned in really hard to things we could still do at home as photographers. And so we worked really hard on promoting restorations and, what we call, we have a wall concierge service that We offer our clients. We've always offered those services, but it's not one that was very forward in my marketing. It was kind of one of those things. Like if a client has asked, it was like, sure, we do that. So I was able to stay somewhat busy by doing restorations and by leaning into the concierge service, which by the way, is just a service we offer where we will go through all of your either snapshots, negatives, digital files. Call them together, organize them for you digitally, and then create, a curated wall, maybe a grow. Some people call it a grow wall, whatever. So I had a lot of those jobs coming in because a lot of my clients were still working. So they were still making money. They're not like me, right? They're not sitting there and can't make money. They're still making money and they didn't have anywhere to spend their money. And that's what I knew. My biggest competition is vacation. But they, couldn't spend money.

Raymond Hatfield:

So

Mary Fisk Taylor:

they had money to spend. So I was ramping up for that. So I stayed pretty busy with that. Scrapped all my marketing, only marketed restorations and the concierge service. So I was busy for those months when I knew we were going to reopen. It was very important to me that offer as frictionless as a system as possible. I just wanted to make our clients feel safe. I wanted to be safe. And because at this point we're talking about early summer, when we finally reopened. What we did was we, went completely frictionless with consultations and sales. And so the only time we were in person was for the photography session itself,

Raymond Hatfield:

which

Mary Fisk Taylor:

the majority of those at that time of year for us are environmental. Cause we have a garden in our studio. So it was that we would get online. We would do our consultation. They would walk around their home. We would look at images. We would talk about investment. I curated an entire little box of samples, little tiny canvases, leather samples, little painted canvases, because we sell mostly paintings, so that when we're doing the consultation and the sales session, they could still hold and feel and see. See my products

Raymond Hatfield:

on

Mary Fisk Taylor:

a very miniature scale, but I curated these really beautiful little boxes that had a lookbook in it. And we had little, wrapped snacks and teas and coffee, just little things to just try to make it as personal as possible. Just as if they were in my store. My daughter made all these little fresh baked cookie candles. Cause one of the things we're known for is we bake cookies every day so they could light the candle and smell the cookies. And so I tried to bring that experience to their home.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

So the cool thing that happened is we ended up having our best year ever, mostly because I didn't have any competition. I did not have vacations. They weren't going on holiday. They can't supply chain. You can't even get new furniture. Interior decorators weren't redesigning the kitchen. Everything was shut down. So there was a lot of money left on the table that I could come in and scoop up, I think, because we came up with such a great system that that really did help because if you would ask me a couple of years ago, Oh, just do your sales online. I would've told you that'll never work. They need to be in the camp. They need to be there. They need to see the products they need to do. It worked. It worked very well. So the good news that came out of that for me was that I realized I could now offer this system to my clients and I was no longer requiring them to take three different trips to my studio that they could choose to just come one time, be photographed. And that was happy to do online, or virtual, Selling and, consultations. So that worked really well. And it's something that we've carried over into this year, even though we're open, we offer it because, you know, there's always the mom that's like, I got to get to soccer, I pick the kids up or I'm in traffic or dad's out, got stuck, you know, out of town or they're coming in from 30, 40, 50 miles away. And I'm asking him to drink that trip three times. Nobody has time for that. Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

So.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Some of my clients still choose to come in and do it all in person, which is great, but we've shifted to a lot online, which quite frankly and selfishly has worked out great for me this year. Cause my travel schedule is so hectic with being president that I was in Colorado Springs the other day and I hopped online and did a zoom call and I had a nice high five figure sale online. In Colorado, you know what I mean? Just as long as I can be in person to take the pictures. So that all worked really well for me. I'm very fortunate that we had a brand that supported it. I'm very fortunate that I had the training and wherewithal to, make it work. and it did so coming out of COVID it's not been as hard on maybe our studio, but I'm seeing it across the industry that it has And, you know, there's a lot of fear. this happens a lot, I didn't have a great year now I'm suffering. And so now we're fire sailing things. We're discounting. We're trying to just get business in the door, which as all of us know, if we really think about it, that's never a good thing because what happens is, it doesn't fix anything, right. It doesn't fix it in the long run. discounts never work, down the road. It's for small businesses like ours. That's how we went through COVID and that's how we've come out of COVID with a new sales system that quite frankly has been really, really awesome. And I think is relevant to the times it's better on the environment. People aren't out in their cars, all the time. There's a lot of reasons why I think it's a good system. So it forced us to do something that I think is going to be an incredibly promising thing for us moving forward.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. Of course. It's always been one of the things that I hear from photographers and I'll be honest, I mean, myself included several years ago, which was, I hear the power of having some sort of in person consultation, but where do we have these things? If you don't have a studio space, you know, can you just do it at a Starbucks or whatever, but this idea of just doing it online. And I did my first one this last year as well. And it turned out fantastic. Just being able to chat with them online. It worked great. So now going forward, being able to do this, do you think that it's because we just went through the year that we had, that people are just now normalized to doing things online and that's why it's working for you? Or do you think that it's been this way the whole time?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

I think it normalized zoom. It made zoom a, requirement now. Not everybody used to have a computer or, internet or a cell phone or now everybody has zoom, right. It's just to all have zoom or something, relevant to zoom. So yeah, if, when I have an 80 year old grandmother hopping online and hopping on a zoom call and having that a problem and all getting on there, that tells you how incredibly useful it is. I do think that that's a positive that's coming out of COVID. for us. because it's nice, that you can, still have the business without, being president, your business all the time. for me, it's just been great this year because again, my travel schedule is insane and I was a little bit concerned, but boy, this has made it. I don't worry. I mean, I, you know, can schedule a zoom call anytime. and make it work. So that definitely has been a positive thing

Raymond Hatfield:

for those who are listening to you and like, that's it. I'm sold. Like I can do this. What's maybe like one or two tips that you have just for them to get started and feel comfortable with this.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

So, The thing is, and this is something when Jamie and I went digital back in 1998, when we first bought our first digital camera, one of the things we promised ourselves when we went from film to digital is we weren't going to change, the way we did things. Meaning just because we were using a different instrument, a different tool, a different media, didn't mean that we would change our process. What I mean by that is back then, what that meant to us was we weren't going to start learning to retouch. We weren't going to do our own printing. We weren't going to do all the things that a lot of digital photographers thought was so awesome about being digital. I'm still, I'm using the professional lab. I'm still outsourcing my artwork. I'm still doing all those things, even though I could. Could do it myself. I've always valued my time at a higher rate than what I could probably pay somebody else to do it. So if I could pay a researcher or the lab to do it for this, then I just put that in my costs. And I, spend my time visioning my company, selling marketing. networking, right? Same thing with zoom, just because it's something new and different doesn't mean we needed to throw out all the planning and the solid sales plans we had for so many years. So that's why it was very important to me that we still were doing the consultation and looking at the images of the spaces in the home. Why I put together, and it's not cheap to put together that box. I have about, 17 in that box. So my sale has to, it has to work, right? Yes. But I know My photography, I know my sales plan that yeah, that 17 is an expense, but I know that if I can't put that little tiny oil portrait in their hand or the little leathers, or if I can't do that, they can't feel and they can't see it. So I had to do that, as well. And then I also still stuck with, I've always used pro select. Uh, I have for, since it was, came around. I still use pro select. I'm still putting the images on the client's wall. I'm still getting the room views. I'm still treating it as if we're in person. And I'm already, I'm serving them coffee and cookies. They're just arriving by courier and not in my space. I wanted to keep as much of the integrity of the in person as possible. So I think a lot of times we go, Oh, it's online. So it's fine. You can be late. It's fine. Or you can blow it off or it doesn't have, no, it needed to still feel as rich and amazing. So when I'm on a zoom call with a client, I'm in a quiet space. I've got portraits behind me. The dogs aren't going to bark, which they might today, by the way, cause I'm at home, um, the phone's not ringing, you know, I want them to have that same beautiful experience as if they were in my space. And I think a lot of times we think, Oh, technology makes it easier. Yes, it does. But that doesn't mean we should sacrifice the experience.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love that. That is such a good takeaway right there. Anybody listening needs to go back and listen to that one, one more time. it's so easy to, when you want to try something new, to completely try to reinvent the entire wheel and get it to work. And I will admit that I am very guilty of that. So, I appreciate that insight right there. With the PPA, obviously, you're geared towards professional photographers, this past year there probably wasn't a lot of, discussions as far as, street photography the art of photography, but what was kind of the, the PPA's, line to best help, guide and assist photographers through, challenging times where you really couldn't get, people in front of your camera?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Well, I can tell you for a fact that PPA and I'm being on the board and having it like a proverbial seat at the table, so to speak, and the room where it happens, if you want to go into Hamilton here, but, the thing is, is that we immediately hopped online and started talking about what we could do for photographers. PPA is an organization for photographers run by photographers with nothing, but what we can do for photographers in mind. So our goal at PPA is Number one is to be fiscally responsible. So we make sure that PPA has enough money put aside that if we didn't bring in a dime for three years, we could survive and offer every single benefit that every single member has been given. Right. That's number one is to be fiscally responsible with the money beyond that. It's what we can do for photographers. So I don't know if you're aware, but, PPA, first of all, this year, Our insurance, which is already included in your membership. All you have to do is opt in and here's a little word to the wise. If you're a PPA member, please go to your PPA, my profile page and make sure you've opted in to the insurance because legally we cannot opt you in for the free insurance you have to opt yourself in. There's no cost, but you do have to. Check the box. Right. So beyond that, our benefits and that just went up 10 times. Now you can either get full replacement value for, I think a 350 or 250 deductible. Do not quote me on that. I'm terrible with numbers or replace, or you could get it repaired for a 50 deductible. I literally shopped around here in my area and I could not find anybody close to that. So for my dues, I get that insurance alone is what I'd be paying if I was paying for my insurance here.

Raymond Hatfield:

So

Mary Fisk Taylor:

we worried about that. We had to shift to make sure imaging USA was safe. So we, spent an incredible amount of money and a big investment to have the best online event we could possibly have.

Raymond Hatfield:

And it was by the way, I agree.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

They did an amazing job. PPA has the best staff and leadership in the world of our trade association. It's so beyond that. But everything we did and talked about was what for the members and even going into this year, I mean, I don't know, imaging USA in January, we kept that, the registration is only 59. We're subsidizing 50 a night for each hotel room. And guys, the hotel's not giving us any of that. Where are we writing them a check for all of that money? Because PPA survived COVID very well. As a matter of fact, we have more members than we've ever had. We broke 31, 000 members. earlier in the spring or the summer. We wanted to give back. So we created a, give back to our vendors who've been so great to the association and we made sure we could make imaging USA as economical as possible. So as many people as possible could attend. Everything we do is about members. We amped up our education. We opened the whole platform. You didn't even have to be a member to get online and study with PPA, during COVID, which I thought was amazing. We wanted to make sure everybody had that and we kept our voice on the Hill on Capitol Hill strong, even though we couldn't be there in person, we made sure we were still advocating for modernization of the copyright office and, copyright reform. So we just kept on business as usual, just doing it a little bit different. And I'm really proud of this association and I'm incredibly proud to be very small part of it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, I think you should be. I mean, I haven't really, been, I guess, in the PPA for any sort of long history, but it feels like just in the past few years that there has been, the type of changes that are forward thinking changes. You know that I feel like that change from film to digital was very much, focused on the technology, and it was very scary, I think, for a lot of photographers. Whereas today it's we're kind of back at it right back to work. We're doing it, and it's time to figure out how are we going to make the future the best that it can be. And again, I think from everything that I've seen come out of the PPA, it feels like that's at the forefront, which is great. Now I got a question for you, in particular, which is that you are a story brand expert, which is very exciting. I would love to know, I guess, first of all, for listeners, can you let us know what story brand is? But then also because of this past year, Has your story changed?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

So, yes. So Donald Miller wrote an amazing book called story brand and, people get a little bit confused what story brand even is, but story, if you read the book or listen to his podcast, the whole point of story brand is talking, it's a framework of, how to run your business. And the bottom line about story brand is, is your business telling a story or inviting people into a story loop that is relevant to them. And what we know is human beings are born with two instinct, attributes. We are born to survive and thrive. Right. So if I'm sitting here and that book starts falling off the shelf behind me, I know to just get out of the way. I don't even have to think about it. You're going to get out of the way you touch something that's hot. You move your hand, survive and thrive, like going back to caveman. You know what I mean? Dinosaurs coming run, you know, whatever it is. The other is to conserve calories. And what I mean by that is not actually. Food calories, but our brains. So have you ever been watching TV or driving and you see a billboard or a magazine ad, anything like that? And you start looking at it and you're like, what are they selling? What are they selling? I have no idea what they're selling. Well, what happens to us as human beings is if we can't figure it out, we shut down and move on. Unless we're being forced to. Now in school we're forced to figure it out or whatever, but you have like three and a half seconds to catch someone's attention or stop the scroll if we're online. so you need to be quick and you need to be clear and concise and that's what story brand talks about. And it walks us through an entire Framework of, being clear and concise and having a very clear message, making sure that we're not talking about ourselves too much. Nobody likes the jackal at the cocktail party. That's just always running their mouth, talking about themselves. We all have that like signal. Hey, if John catches me, I'm going to do this and rescue me. Cause you don't want to be stuck with that guy. If you don't know that guy, you might be that guy. So you better check out, no, just kidding. Um, um, but you know, making their client the hero and making sure they understand exactly what it is you want them to buy by agitating a pain point. They may or may not know they have, by the way, and how you can solve it. So my story brand hasn't changed because my story brand is incredibly the same, regardless. As a matter of fact, it amplified it. It turned the volume up on it because we went through a year. Oh, I mean, I was emotional. We went through a year of people dying everywhere. You know what I mean? You just couldn't get away from death. So nothing brings you back to center, which for me is my family. And for the client I want to serve is family, by the way, more than that. 9 11 was another time in our history of owning the studio that brought it home really hard. This was 10 times, 9 11. It was a hundred times 9 11. It was global. So families were clinging to each other, right? Well, my pain point is, that you get 18 summers before your family changes forever. Those kiddos fly away. The landscape changes. Don't miss a moment. I can freeze time. I could capture this moment. I can't stop it. But I can make sure you don't look back and wish you had captured it. So I leaned into that harder than ever, and I will continue to, by the way. But if anything, for me, you know, the, pandemic, it made it so much more, Oh, wow. And people weren't as busy. So people were paying attention to my marketing more than ever. And it's getting busier again, and we've been getting right back to where we were. I'm back on the hamster wheel, trying to get the message out. It helped my messaging and it should have helped all of our messaging. And we've been saying, this is the year of the family portrait, by the way, every year is the year of the family portrait. Um, but really, you know, all of our marketing really went into that. If we've learned anything, time is precious. Don't let another moment pass because you're not promised tomorrow, you know? So that's the verbiage that I'm using. And that's what story brand is for me. Now, if I owned a company that made, you know, microphones, My story brand would be different, but my story brand is time is the pain point and I can't stop it, but I can, capture it.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's so much more eloquently put, I think then, because I think every new photographer is going to say something of like, I love capturing little moments or whatever, but until. You do put that weight behind it. You only got 18 summers. I mean, yeah, 18 summers, 18

Mary Fisk Taylor:

holidays. love what you just said because it's exactly what I love this. Well, nobody cares what you love, by the way,

Raymond Hatfield:

because

Mary Fisk Taylor:

it's not about you, by the

Raymond Hatfield:

way,

Mary Fisk Taylor:

it's about them. Anytime we put I into it, we are literally taking ourselves and making ourselves a hero. Nobody wants that. We're too busy. Our job is to guide. We're Yoda. We're the Yoda of this movie, if we want to call it that. And that's what Donald Miller always calls it. He loves to refer to movies. He's a big movie fan, but, um, we're the Yoda. We're just the guide. We're going to sit back in the background and we're going to let you be the hero. I always make the mom or the dad front and center. Cause God, Good for you for making this decision. Good for you for doing this for your family. This is all about you. You made this decision. Isn't it important, that you do this and don't say your family deserve it. That's what we need to be saying. Nobody cares what you need. You'd love to do. I mean, that sounds mean, but they don't, you know, people say, Oh, wow. I bet you're so leveraged. Cause you're PPA president and you've run out. No, my clients don't even know.

Raymond Hatfield:

They don't,

Mary Fisk Taylor:

care. They're just trying to get to soccer and pay the bills and get their kids haircut. They're not worried about what Mary Fisk Taylor is doing. That's for Mary Fisk Taylor. When I'm representing my studio, it's all about them. It's not about me.

Raymond Hatfield:

think that's why you're the expert there. That's perfect. That was wonderful.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Yeah, I love it. I'd love that. I story brand becoming a story brand guide and then working with, profit first and becoming a profit first professional were turning points in my career were major turning points in my career. And those are things that have saved our business in a lot of ways made it. I don't know if it made it, you know what it does. It helps me not work as hard

Raymond Hatfield:

because I have a,

Mary Fisk Taylor:

clearer path to my financials with profit first, and I have a clearer path to my marketing and the way I run my business with story brand. It just means I don't have to work as hard.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. And who doesn't want that?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

We all want that. We all want that.

Raymond Hatfield:

So there you go. If you're listening, pick up story brand and profit. First, those are, yeah. Probably versus one of those. I can also attest to as well. That's a wonderful one. I know that there's still several places in the world where people are very much locked down. They are not, allowed to leave the house. They can't go out. They can't shoot or anything. If they are in a professional capacity, is this the time that they, read story brand, is this the time that they go through profit first and just start working on the business rather than. Focusing on getting people in front of the camera right now. Yeah.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

You know, when you can't work in your business, you need to be working on your business. Right. That's what, I talked about a lot, last year, I have a podcast as well. So Kira and I talked about it a lot on our podcast. And then I got to partner with Ronan Ryle with 3xm. So. Solutions. And we were doing a lot of think tanks and weekly conversations, and that was an overarching theme. And honestly, it's one that it shouldn't take a pandemic to make that happen, but I think it forced people to really work on their website or really read a book go open those bank accounts and start profit first because they couldn't, I know the money wasn't coming in and that is hard. And guys, we were all there by the way, and it is so hard. But having some, those things already in place saved my business. I do know that a lot of photographers that did spend their time last year, working on that, setting up the bank accounts and doing that, that this unfortunate second round that we're now seeing, they're like, wow, it's so much easier right now because I actually have profit. I have money in the bank because I profit first, or my, you know, site's working or I implemented that passive income resource. So I'm not out photographing as much, but I'm doing more restorations or I'm doing this or that. So I do think that it's been an incredibly helpful piece, you know?

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. Of course. Of course. I know that we're coming to the end of our time here, but let me ask with a show like the beginner photography podcast, there's a lot of photographers who they love photography as a hobby and they're looking to the future, maybe someday starting a business. What advice would you give them to maybe kind of work on now so that when that time comes, to start that business, to get that going, they're just set up, For the most success that they can have.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Okay. So I already mentioned those two books and I, 100%, if I did any coaching or consulting, I do, which I work with a lot of great studios across the world, right now. But, tell you what, starting with profit first in mind and starting with story brand, it's a lot easier than, Being an old dog and learning new tricks, which was totally me. Right. But the first book I would recommend them reading, or at least finding a resource is, and I'll mention the book, but I'll tell you why is there's a book by Dr. Carol Dweck called mindset. It was originally written for really for teachers and those in education, but it's grown into so much more and mindset was introduced to me in a point in my life where I was at a really low, low. Coming off one of the best years I've ever had, but waking up in January and feeling like I can't get out of bed because I just didn't know if I could start over. So I was working so hard. We started business because we think we're going to have this financial freedom and flexibility and get to do what we love. And I guess one out of three isn't bad, but there's, the financial freedom part in the flexibility are really hard to come by. So mindset for me was so important because it really taught me that I needed to work hard on a growth mindset. Versus a fixed mindset. So a lot of times I see this in our industry, people say. Well, I can't do that. I'm not this, not in my town. I'm not you. I'm not that good yet. One day. Well, that's a very fixed mindset. So if you're gonna go out and do this, which is a beautiful thing to do, owning a business is a beautiful thing, but it shouldn't be at the cost of your, mental health, your personal relationships. You start hating the art itself when it becomes that hard. So please make sure you're in the right mind space to believe in yourself and to trust yourself and do not compare yourself to get over perfectionism. And know that done is better than perfect, because at least it's done, you know what I mean? Done is good. So, I'd rather it be bad than not, than unfinished, so our industry is really guilty of that. They'll just put it aside because it's not perfect. Well. you're the one that's judging that your client's going to love it, you know? So the mindset piece for me, and my answer may have been different through the years, but at this point in my career, 26 years in it's mindset. If your mind is not there that you're going to overcome that stuff, then just wait until it is, because you really have to be in a growth mindset in my opinion, to find the true success in this industry. And without it, I think it's a lot, lot harder and most people don't get, make it because of it, you know?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I'm currently putting something aside because it's not perfect. So I'm going to go ahead and read this book. I'm going to go ahead and buy it and read it. Of course, I'm going to put the links in the show notes as well, but yeah. Mary, as always, it is fantastic to talk to you today. Just the amount of wisdom and just real life experience that you have, that you're able to share with listeners is a very valuable thing. And I, I don't take that lightly and I don't think that the listeners do as well. So again, I want to say thank you so much. And before I let you go, can you let listeners know where they can find out more about you online?

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Yeah. Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you for having me on. I love being on your podcast. I love your podcast and I love the fact that you have identified the client you want to serve, which is the beginner photographer, and that is so needed. So thank you for doing what you do as well, Raymond. it's really important. but yeah, so I maryfisktaylor. com is my website for me personally. And then I do have a podcast, with Kira Derryberry called get your shoot together. So after you listen to this one. Maybe you check out mine, but that's where you can get more Mary Fisk Taylor. So thanks for

Raymond Hatfield:

having me. It is a hoot for sure. It was so much fun. Just to hear you guys talk to each other, just the banter that you guys have back and forth. It is so much fun. It's not just like, here's photography, here's how this works. mean, it really feels like you guys are best friends and we're just in the room. So that's always joy. but again, Mary, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing everything that you did. I look forward to keeping up with you in the future and, seeing what the future has planned for you as well.

Mary Fisk Taylor:

Well, maybe I'll see you at Imaging USA.

Raymond Hatfield:

I plan on it. Absolutely. Love it. You better come up

Mary Fisk Taylor:

and say, hi, everybody who's listening. Make sure you say hi. I like, I can't wait to see everybody and give everybody a big fist bump.

Raymond Hatfield:

Washington DC. I always love chatting with Mary, such a great conversation as always. Let's go ahead and recap what we have learned so that you can implement it into your own photography practice. First, focus on individual goals. When you stop comparing yourself to others in this photography community and concentrate on your own personal growth, you're going to create more personal images and then therefore start attracting more clients who love your work. Next embrace new tools. if the pandemic taught us anything, it's that we can actually adapt pretty quickly when needed to. If we can keep that same mindset, it would be much easier to start implementing new tools that can not only make our lives easier, but also make our clients experience better too. And lastly, implement those foundational systems, finding a system for marketing, such as how Mary use a story brand to make her clients, the hero. of their own journey. or profit first to ensure that her business is healthy and will grow even in a bad market. That's the stuff that you need once you realize that photography is so much more than just a using a camera. So I want to hear your biggest takeaway, honestly, in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community, which you can join for free right now by heading over to beginner photopod. com forward slash group. That is it for today until next time. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.