The Beginner Photography Podcast

505: Michael Sasser: Booking Strategies to Attract Ideal Photography Clients

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Michael Sasser, an influential boudoir photographer dedicated to capturing natural beauty and challenging negative self-perceptions. Michael shares his journey, revealing how authenticity and emotional connection form the cornerstone of his work.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Building Trust: Creating meaningful connections with clients enhances comfort and authenticity in photos.
  • Natural Beauty: Emphasizing minimal editing preserves the true essence of your subjects. 
  • Emotional Connection: Understanding client motivations ensures a personalized and impactful experience. 
  • Market Challenges: Highlight client reviews and real interactions to promote boudoir photography effectively.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  1. Create a Comfortable Environment: Engage in genuine conversations to understand your client's insecurities and aspirations. Show images during the shoot to build trust and create a bond.
  2. Focus on Natural Editing: Limit your use of Photoshop to preserve natural features, including imperfections. Improve your in-camera skills to reduce the need for heavy post-processing.
  3. Develop Effective Communication: Use phone calls or personal emails to deeply understand client motivations. Craft email content that addresses common client concerns and reassures them.
  4. Build a Robust Portfolio: Showcase a variety of authentic, minimally edited boudoir images. Include client testimonials and detailed experience stories to attract new clients.
  5. Implement a Strategic Booking System: Set limits on the number of shoots per month to maintain quality and manage demand. Use a waitlist to create anticipation and ensure you work with ideal clients.

RESOURCES:
Visit Michael Sasser's Website - https://sasserstillsboudoir.com/
Follow Michael Sasser on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sasserstillsboudoir/

Grab your free 52 Lightroom Presets at
http://freephotographypresets.com/

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Michael Sasser:

you wouldn't go to a restaurant and expect to cook your own food. The chef does that The first thing everybody thinks is especially for boudoir is I'm going to show up. I'm going to look like an idiot because I don't know how to pose. And so as much as I can explain to them that they don't have to do a single thing, all they have to do is show up. I'm going to take care of the rest is going to relieve a lot of the pressure on them to try and perform during the photo shoot, because what they think is it's up to them, whether or not their pictures are going to be good. whether or not your food is good is not up to you. It's up to the chef

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and today we're chatting with boudoir photographer, Michael Sasser, about creating an emotional connection with your subjects to allow their true selves to come out. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by CloudSpot. You can impress your clients with a beautiful gallery that is easy to view, it's easy to share, and it's easy to download on any device. You can control your image sizes, add watermarks, and of course download limits as well. So grab your free forever account over at DeliverPhotos. com and only upgrade when you are ready. I think we can all, understand that, being a photographer and trying to stand out in a saturated market such as Los Angeles is no easy task, but Michael has been able to do that just through focusing on client experience, making sure that his boudoir clients not only have, or that they leave rather with great photos, but they also leave feeling better about themselves. So today you will learn how emotional connection means better conversions. Michael will share how emotional bonds are what make potential clients commit to your services rather than pricing. Also, how to market boudoir photography. Michael's going to share his strategy that he uses to market boudoir photography, where privacy is, incredibly important, and many clients don't want you to share your photos with the world. And how to effectively communicate with your clients. If you want to learn their true desires, it's super important in any form of photography, but it is even more so in boudoir and Michael's going to teach you how to do that. So there's a lot to learn and discuss about today's episode. So remember, don't forget to join the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community, which you can find and join over at beginner photopod. com forward slash group and share. your takeaways or ask your questions. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Michael Sasser. I know it's been more than two years since you were on the podcast. So for new listeners, can you just give us a brief history of how you got started in photography and how you got to where you are today?

Michael Sasser:

I love it. It's been a journey. I've been, kind of interested in photography, shooting for about 15 years. I got started in Australia. I'd had my study abroad, so I'm 35. I did my study abroad out in Australia. And I took a camera, before iPhones. And I just, I got really curious about shooting sunset. I think I remember the first picture is I took a picture of a sunset. And it was the most beautiful sunset I had ever seen. And I looked down at the camera. I was like, that's not what that sunset looks like at all. And so I was like, how do I make it more like that? More like reality? how do I create in the camera what I saw in real life? And that kind of started me on this journey to learning how to use the camera. And it started out with sunsets, landscapes and flowers and. My first job was shooting children's sports photography. So I found a company on Craigslist and my job was to shoot, a little Johnny swinging the baseball bat and try and get the ball out in front of the bat. so even if he missed it, it would still look like he might've hit it and, sell that picture back to their parents for, however much 10, 10, 12 for an eight by 10. And. I was like 21 or 22 at the time and I realized that I probably wasn't going to be making enough money doing that. It was long hours. We had to travel. And so I needed to learn how to run my own business. I needed to learn how to shoot portraits, how to shoot weddings, if I was really going to make enough money to make photography a sustainable career. So from there, I went to high school senior portraits, for actors, ended up starting to shoot weddings, I learned videography, so I shot wedding videos in Denver, Colorado for a number of years. And then I found boudoir photography through a workshop and I really enjoyed it. Once I moved to California. So I've been in California for about six years. Now I stopped shooting wedding videography. I stopped shooting wedding photography, and now I've solely done boudoir photography for about the last six years.

Raymond Hatfield:

remember last time you were talking about. I think topic of our conversation last time was being a male boudoir photographer because the skew is so much more towards women than it is men. So you obviously have a bit of a unique perspective. And you talked about the importance of your why you wanted to be a boudoir photographer and why it was important to you. Now, I think since then, out of all the podcast interviews that I've had, like that piece right there has probably gotten the most amount of attention. Because I get a lot of photographers who are now they're asking me, like, how do I find my why? And I feel like the answer is exactly the same for photographers who asked, like, how do I find my style? And the only answer is, well, you just have to go out there and shoot and you have to find it yourself. Now, I'd love to hear, your thoughts on this, but is that how your why developed or is there an element of planning that went on there to find your why?

Michael Sasser:

that's a good question. So my particular experience was Boudoir was kind of an extra paycheck for me. I wasn't shooting weddings in the winter time. And I had a space enough, it was just a futon, but I had good enough light in my space that I was just like, what if I could start shooting boudoir? I took this workshop. It makes sense. I already know how to use my camera. I'll just do it with, in this other genre. And it was great, but emotionally it meant really not that much to me. It was a new curiosity. It was like, can I figure this out? So for me, it was a little bit of a transition over time. I had a number of clients that came in that shared their insecurities, these women that, objectively I thought were beautiful and they shared these insecurities that they had. And I thought they were kind of silly for thinking so. And I showed them the pictures on the camera and sometimes they tear up and I was just like, what the heck is going on? And I had learned through them. How many women, hold this emotional weight of them like not living up to whatever the beauty standards are being really hard on themselves being picked on or being called names when they were younger, never really getting over that. And so they've been telling themselves this story over and over again for years that they're not pretty or they're unattractive or they're not worthy of love, all those things. And sometimes seeing a beautiful picture of themselves is the first time that they've really been able to see it themselves. So that was sort of eyeopening to me. And once, I realized that I got a little bit of, fulfillment from being able to do this good deed from being able to be safe space or a, like kind of push the needle forward for these women be able to have something that I don't think I ever really needed to, worry about, image wise. I mean, I've had plenty of am I going to be able to date the person that's going to like me back? But as far as having the weight of that throughout my life, I haven't had to experience. So it was very cool to have that opened up to me, which is possible in a genre where it's, mostly women and on, the topic of, it's pretty vulnerable to get down to your lingerie and be photographed in front of a stranger. that was my experience. I would say that it's important if you're looking for your own, whether or not it's wedding photography, I'll share a story. I was on a clubhouse and they were kind of sharing a little bit about creativity. One woman said that she shot wedding photography because she's had trouble in her marriage and her parents didn't make it and she found that. She felt that if she could take good enough pictures that showed this couple's love enough that when they're on hard times, they could look back at their wedding pictures and be reminded of why they started this journey in the first place. And that can give them some, fuel, some support in making it through the hard times. Wow. Yeah. wedding photography as a form of therapy or, wanting to hold other people's marriages, make other people's marriages stronger. that's a why, For anybody listening that doesn't really know how to find their why, what do you feel if you look back at your life and maybe what was missing or what you wished you could give or what you want people to be able to receive from your photography. I think those are good questions to ask in order to start to understand what fuels you outside of the wow cameras are interesting, or it's so neat when I get a new lens, or if I do it this way I earn more money. But really, what's the additional factor? What's the X factor that gets you excited to pick up that camera?

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. So for you, it evolved over time. You didn't start out from the beginning thinking this is going to be my why and work that way. Things changed as you progressed as a boudoir photographer.

Michael Sasser:

Yeah. I had no idea that, that existed, I mean, it's a very talked about topic right now, but seven or eight years ago, it wasn't as much, and hearing enough stories from enough clients and being in the Facebook groups and hearing other stories and having people feel open enough to share with me now that I am in the genre, it's just more common than I thought. Yeah. so I've just been grateful to like have a lens into that for lack of a better word and that it took many experiences like that before it clicked for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So then when you get that, does your why now affect the way that you shoot, does it actually change the photography or does it change the service that you provide to your clients?

Michael Sasser:

Yeah. So one of the things that's important to me is I've been told that my work is really honest, that my work is, natural. there's a bunch of different, photographies in each wedding photographies in these high school senior portraits in each. And then within that, you can niche down as well. So for me, I don't edit my pictures that much. my rules are if it's temporary, take it out. If it's permanent, leave it in. So when somebody comes to me and they say, Oh, well, I've got this scar on my leg from something. Can we just remove it? I try really hard to get them to keep it in the pictures. Because I think people, skin is skin and that's what skin looks like and to spend all this time in the software to change what somebody looks like, and they see the picture of themselves, I believe that in their minds, they're going to say, wow, I look beautiful after Photoshop and fancy lighting and, in real life. I know I'm not this, but for one moment I can pretend.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

That's not my goal with boudoir, is to give them a relief from reality. What I want them to do is restructure their reality that, Oh my God, I've got this scar and it doesn't look bad. Wait, I've been self conscious about my stomach, but it doesn't look the way that I've been imagining it does. Or I've always been self conscious about my short legs, but look at how good they look in these pictures. I would rather that than somebody say, Oh, thank God you're good at Photoshop. Because I wouldn't have been able to be beautiful otherwise. So within that, that's a lot of what we talk about during the photo shoots. When I hear somebody say, good luck. I'm never the pretty girl. always just kind of the goofy person. We'll stop and we'll discuss that. We'll discuss that. Will you receive, from your significant others? They tell you're beautiful. Well, yeah. Well, they have to, cause they're my significant other. I'm like, so you're thinking they're lying. Well, they're not lying. having a discussion where you are this and you are that you are beautiful and you are goofy and you are smart. And you are a mom and you are a teacher and you are devious and you are all of these things, but you have cut your identity down to just the one thing that you feel most comfortable in. yeah, just showing them that they are all of the things that they don't think they are, I think is more powerful than just your pretty picture or being able to do the one time, the one time only. Moment of beauty. So those are the kind of some of the things that I talk about and I consider myself to be pretty passionate about it. Yeah. So as far as having that experience, knowing that is what brings me, one of the things in boudoir photography that gets me excited about shooting is kind of making a difference, for these people. I lean into that a little bit more during the shoot. instead of just kind of ignoring the topic.

Raymond Hatfield:

So the first half of that answer was definitely focused on, physical attributes of, your subject in front of your camera. But then the second half of that answer was very much the head space. Yeah, exactly. The identity stuff. are you going in trying to change their vision of themselves so that the photos that you take of their internal imperfections of their physical body changes? Is that too much of a question? Does that make sense?

Michael Sasser:

I'm kind of trying to meet them with where they're at. So some people come in and I mean, it's rare that somebody comes in, they're like, let's do this thing. I've got no, no nothing. I feel amazing. So let's just shoot around. Right. but if somebody comes in and says, I had a client. so funny. She's a client in her 60s. She's I don't really want anything shows my butt. I don't think I really have one. I think it's, less appropriate thing to photograph. let's shy away from that. And some of the pictures she was kind of turned to the side and it did, it showed her butt. And that's something that I may photograph in a way that I think will be within their comfort level, but still something that they can see that may challenge their view of themselves. And. she bought both those pictures. She's it's so funny. I came in here and I thought I didn't want that. And now that I see it, wow. I've never imagined I would like a picture of myself that has my butt in it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So

Michael Sasser:

those are the sort of things that I may challenge, but it's not my agenda. It's, I consider it to be the agenda. They're not sure that they want. when they show up, I want to give them an opportunity to feel safe, to, be vulnerable, to take pictures that they may not have thought that they were capable of to show themselves in a way that they may not have imagined themselves. but I want to do that one step ahead of wherever they're at.

Raymond Hatfield:

So ahead of wherever they're at.

Michael Sasser:

Yeah. So if they come in, they say, I don't think I want any pictures. my butt. That's pretty rare. That's pretty rare. So for her, I'm going to try and be just one step ahead of that. well, let me take something. And if you like it, that's great. And if you don't like it, that's okay too. Whereas the next person may say, I don't want any shots with nudity in it. Okay, well, now we've been shooting for an hour, do you think you'd be comfortable enough to do that? and then if they say yes, then we can try that. And then again, they'll be like, wow, I never thought I could do something like that. So more so I'm trying to like, hold their hand. As they go through this experience themselves, and what I found if it's photography, for anybody listening, and they're like, can I do boudoir? Can I not do boudoir? Can I try this? Can I not try this? Is it okay to do this? Like most people just need permission. Like they can do it themselves. I don't consider myself to be some magician or some I have all of your answers sort of thing. Right. Or so what I want to do is create a safe space that lets you know that you can step into it. Same with when I teach photography, I don't know if these pictures are good enough to charge. Are you kidding me? These pictures are amazing. You should charge. And then they say I should charge and then they charge and then they're making money. So I didn't do anything in that situation. I just gave them the confidence. I like opened the door for them to walk through.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, of course. What's funny to think about there is, I think this idea and tell me if I'm wrong, but when somebody tells you, Hey, you know what? Not really comfortable my butt. Don't really like it. Don't really want any photos of it. Do you make it like a personal mission to then take a great photo of that person's butt?

Michael Sasser:

Yeah. I think a lot of boudoir photographers feel that way, cause the more powerful thing, you've got two options is to say, wow, this client doesn't like their. X their feature, whatever it is. So I'm going to try and hide that in all the photos and reaffirm their belief that it's not something that should be seen.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

Right. So that's option one. Option two is to challenge that belief that says you really have nothing to be ashamed of. You really don't have anything to hide. in fact, it could be something that you should be proud of. And so In what way do you do that is by taking a picture that shows it, that challenges their perspective of what that is. So yes, if a client says, sorry, I don't have a butt, like you're just going to have to work with what you have. I say, Oh, okay. set them up in the poses that I know work. And at the end, they're like, these are the best pictures ever. Or somebody who says, I don't really, have a good serious face, so I'm just going to be giggling and laughing the whole time I want to get like fierce. Fierce shots of them looking into the camera challenges this idea of themselves that they can't be sexy or that they don't look that way. Because even though that's a physical thing, it changes their mental perspective, right? Even though it's a photo of themselves where they say, okay, physically, I see that I look sexy, but now how do I feel as a result of that? I may feel powerful. I may feel, stronger. I may feel more dominant. I may feel, more in control. I may feel all of these things. This is the feeling that comes out of what the picture may look like.

Raymond Hatfield:

Throughout the shoot, you're showing pictures of just the back of your camera to, reaffirm that they are looking good and that this is turning out well.

Michael Sasser:

Yeah. It depends on the client, but in the first two minutes, I try and show at least one because people's imaginations are just like, they feel kind of stiff and they're like, these probably don't look good. And so to get a quick shot that shows them looking really nice, then to show them, just everything gets shattered. Like their beliefs on, Oh wait, that looks good. how did you do that? what's the secret sauce? I'm like, there's no secret sauce. I told you to stand over here by the window. I took the picture. Here it is. We're just getting started.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

And that breaks a lot of the, it's almost like at the very beginning, it's this guy's got no shot, good luck. And then I do it and they're like, Oh, okay. now I want to be a part of it. so that builds a little bit of a bond. Bricks down a few barriers, makes them more comfortable, release a lot of attention, a lot of the nerves. I mean, my goal isn't to show them everything at the reveal, the end of the photo shoot I want to show them, but yeah, I'd say throughout the shoot, I probably show them between five and a dozen pictures.

Raymond Hatfield:

Gotcha. Okay. So at this point, Boudoir photography, and again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but unlike weddings or family portraits with Boudoir, I'd assume that the photos, they're going to be mostly private, they're not going to be shared for the most part, social media and just blast everywhere on the internet. Boudoir photography, is the service more important than the final deliverables?

Michael Sasser:

yes. that's an interesting topic because it can be more difficult to market for a lot of reasons. exactly as you said, about half of your clients, maybe more probably won't let you share their pictures. I had a client recently who is a therapist. We're not going to put her pictures online. Sure. Even if she wanted to, like it's just something that if somebody found it could impact her practice. it sucks that may be the case, but that's the world that we live in right now. So one of my favorite shoots this year, nobody's going to see those pictures, but anybody she chooses to share with that's some of the marketing, right? Is she feels really good. She's got similar friends who are going through similar things who also Want to photo shoot, then amazing Our reviews are massive. They are massive to get good reviews for boudoir to have somebody telling you that they felt safe, they felt comfortable, that they were nervous that, how they felt after the shoot, that they're still looking through their pictures, all that stuff is worth way more than a good picture.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

if you've got your options between getting somebody to write a heartfelt review and taking your favorite picture ever, like I'll take the heartfelt review, 10 times out of 10.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course.

Michael Sasser:

I would say that's absolutely true.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so then let's continue to shift more into the business side here. I had seen you had told me that you're working on a new system in which has allowed you to work with more of your ideal clients. and you started implementing the system that has your calendar more books than ever and has given you more control over your business as well. So I would love to hear more about this. Can you give me like the 30, 000 foot overview of what the system is of what you're doing?

Michael Sasser:

I'll give you the cliff notes. and to do that, I'll say that the way that I used to book clients is whenever I would get an email, I would try and email them back right away and try and get them on the phone that day or the next morning. Hopefully they were free. We didn't have to play too much email tag. Once we got on the phone, I would give them the spiel and ask them, when do you want to book? And they'd say, my, Wedding isn't for four months or five months, I'm looking for, whenever in the next while I don't really have anything set that I need. Okay, well, let's try and book you in on a date. And, I was basically kind of scrambling to fill people in. I was getting enough inquiries. I was booking the amount that I wanted to, but I always felt like I was chasing people. And so after the pandemic happened and we had to stop shooting, went back and my system and I said, is this making me happy? Do I feel fulfilled? am I worried about thinking about booking the next client all of the time? how do I take more control of that? I basically, the ability to book more, with this system that gives me more control has just come out of wanting more control for myself. So the first thing is now I don't book within six months. I book within three months, three months is a relatively short amount of time. So it's. whatever. It's July as we speak. So I've got shoots booked in September. I'll probably open up October dates this weekend, possibly. So that's within three months of today's date. So I don't have to worry about booking a year out if I decide to move, I decide I hate boudoir, whatever it is. So that's the first way that I took back control. Hey, do you want to book with me? It has to be within three months. So that alone, put a little pressure on clients that if I'm the person that they want to work with it, It's gonna have to happen. You can't put it for six months or let me call you back in three months or something like that. I kind of have to make a decision. the next thing I decided was, I've always only wanted to book six shoots a month, but this time I literally have capped it. And now I let people know that I've got a limited number of, Shoots that I can book every six months or every three months is six shoots per month So with that Now there's another level of wow. I really need to get into book with this person. Otherwise, they're gonna fill up their dates And then the very last thing that I did in order to stop needing to message everybody back right away was to build a wait list, which means that when somebody comes to my website and they want to book with me, they put their email address in and it starts to send them queue of emails that helps build rapport. And the first email says, wow, thanks for taking the first step. You've now been added to the wait list. You're going to need to wait and look for when dates open up again. So this again, creates Oh my God, I can't even book right now. Even if I wanted to, this person must be really good. They must have a lot of people who want to work with them. So now I need to be really on it if I really want to book with this person. So with that, I've been pretty much, hitting my six shoots a month, sometimes seven. depending if I open up an extra date, if I can tell somebody really wants to work with me and they're going to be an amazing client, they're really going to appreciate it. I'll open up an extra date or two. but it's been working pretty well since. April, May, about the last four months. So I implemented it in February is when I started doing it. it took about two or three months to really get going, but now I've refined some things and, yeah, everybody, I talked to my makeup artists while they're getting their hair and makeup done, I stay there for the first 30 minutes and then I come and I sit down in the office and I get some work done and they've been telling me that, wow, everybody is so excited to be here. They really feel lucky to have gotten a chance to shoot with you. Wow. I can't believe I was able to get a spot. I'm really excited. I've been wanting to do this and I really feel like this is going to be the one. I can't believe I'm here. that kind of energy is really exciting because it means that when I ask them to do something or I want to lead them through something, maybe give them outfit tips. They're really going to be hanging on every word because they really trust that I'm the professional and that I'm going to guide them in the right way. Thank you. Which can be a difference from if you've got a client who sort of like I didn't really look at the websites and I just booked the first person I found and I showed up with a baseball jersey and a trucker hat and I sure, and a bow and arrow. And I was like, these are the things that I want to shoot with, whatever they're into that you may not connect to. But because There hasn't been enough, connection or excitement to shoot with you specifically. You can kind of get an array of people.

Raymond Hatfield:

First of all, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I want to dive just a bit deeper into that because I know that when we first start off, Essentially, we are looking like we just want every client that comes our way until you get to a point to where you realize, Oh, wait, I'm actually working with a lot of people who are not my ideal clients. And you had mentioned that this is helping you get more ideal clients so that now when they're there in your studio, they're saying, Oh my gosh, I'm so lucky. I'm excited to be here that you've really built up that connection. So is the way that you're building that connection and finding the ideal clients. or filtering out who is your ideal client versus not your ideal client through the series of emails that you're sending them leading up to offering dates available.

Michael Sasser:

it's a number of things. the first thing, that I don't want people to think is that, you have to do one extreme or the other. So usually when, people who are just starting, they're like, well, I don't have a whole bunch of inquiries coming in. I have to chase everything, which is true, which is. What I did, which is what everybody does when they first start, but the way in which you approach it doesn't have to be, in a format which we're chasing. So some of the language on your website can show, it starts on your website in the emails that you send in the way that you talk to them on the phone, these sorts of things, what you're trying to do is not necessarily, alienate anybody. or, you're not trying to book so little that you don't get work or you're trying to do is show them that you're somebody who's worthwhile shooting for, shooting with more so than you would do, you would feel lucky to have their business. So it's basically, that swap. So in the emails I've got, I'm discussing different topics. So one of the topics I'm discussing is posing. So the first thing everybody thinks is. Especially for boudoir is I'm going to show up. I'm going to look like an idiot because I don't know how to pose. And so as much as I can explain to them that they don't have to do a single thing, all they have to do is show up. I'm going to take care of the rest is going to relieve a lot of the pressure on them to try and perform during the photo shoot, because what they think is it's up to them, whether or not their pictures are going to be good. If I don't know how to pose, my pictures are going to be bad. If I don't know how to look, my pictures are going to be bad. And so one of the emails is dedicated to explaining that, the way they're thinking about is incorrect. The truth is that all you have to do is show up. I have an analogy in there, you wouldn't go to a restaurant, And expect to cook your own food, the chef does that, whether or not your food is good is not up to you. it's up to the chef. that's what one of the emails discusses. Another one discusses, the movie. I feel pretty. Okay, just such a great movie. And it's basically a woman who, has never felt pretty in her life. I think it's Amy Schumer and she bumps her head and all of a sudden she looks herself in the mirror. She's Whoa, I'm hot. And nothing changed except just the way she perceives herself. And you get to see her move through the movie the whole day as somebody who believes. that they are beautiful instead of somebody who believes they're taking up space in this world. And I think it's just such an incredible story and so funny. And we talk about that mental shift that happens after you get your boudoir pictures taken, that the way you look doesn't change, but the way you look at yourself changes. And so these are the types of things I'm trying to cultivate. I'm trying to let them know that I know what they're going through. I'm familiar with what's going on in their head. I've photographed a lot of different people, and so they're going to be in good hands. And what's nice about boudoir is it's not. a must have experience, senior portraits, the deadline comes up. You got to get your senior pictures done. If you don't get your senior pictures, you're not going to have any pictures. You got to have stuff in the yearbook. Like it's got to happen. Boudoir is not like that. So a lot of people are like, I know I want to do it, but I'm curious. Let me shoot out a couple of feelers and see by doing that. you'll lose clients. Absolutely. The way that I do it, I have plenty of people that I'm sure. Sign up for my wait list. They call another photographer who gets on the phone with them that night. They book with that photographer. I'm okay with that because my own personal goals are six shoots a month. Within three months, as long as I booked those 18 clients, I'm okay. If a thousand other people hire a thousand other photographers. so it's important to set your goals as to how many you want. And within what time frame, because otherwise, if you're booking six shoots a month at 6, 000 or whatever your first year of photography, you're making 80, 000 a year, which is amazing. If you try and book a hundred people a month, you may only book one because Nobody's choosing you for you.

Raymond Hatfield:

Again, I feel like my mind is going in a million directions right here. that was a great explanation. and I know that, setting up these emails, we can all figure out whether it's ConvertKit or MailChimp or whatever it is, it can be done. But, I guess how do you just say that you get out of, I don't know, 30 inquiries on your waitlist for the month, say that you get 13, who you think are going to be real good fits. I guess, how did you come up with that decision? And what do you do at that point? If you only have six dates,

Michael Sasser:

we get on the phone, and I think boudoir, especially it's important to get on the phone. There's some photographers I know who book over email. And they do, they book a ton. And think it's crazy. I would never book somebody without first speaking to them on the phone. so we get on the phone. once they sign up for the email list, I'm going to send out an email that says, Hey, everybody, this Saturday is a chance to book your photo shoot, sign up for a time. There are 12 slots and then the slots populate. And I get on the phone with them and we talk, what, why are you interested in a boudoir shoot? Unless somebody like really gives me the heebie jeebies, I'm not going to say no. I've had that happen two or three times where I've said, well, let me double check my calendar and I'll get back to you. And then I've decided that they're not the right client for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Michael Sasser:

Pretty much everybody by that point. I think when people are first starting out, they have a hard time showing their brand showing like, this is what I'm about. Here's the type of photos you're going to get. This is what past clients have said. Here's a video of me shooting, those sorts of things answer a ton of the questions so that when you get on the phone with them, they're already like, Hey, I read that review where the person said they were nervous and now, and then they had a great time. And Hey, I read your about me that said you went through something when you were younger And that's why you're shooting boudoir now. Hey, I Click through your portfolio. And I can imagine myself in your pictures. If they do all of those things, by the time they get on the phone with you, it's going to be much easier to convert them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

But if you've got three or four photos and you say, I like boudoir because I like making people feel pretty. And your testimonial says Michael was a great photographer. I'd highly recommend them. It's going to be much more difficult. First of all, that person who calls you could be anyone. And secondly, it's going to be much more difficult to connect with them because you're going to have to do so much of the work over the phone.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

Versus already having some of that work done for you. So, when you're 10, 15 years into business, you can get at the point where you can book people over email because you've got enough reviews and you've got enough this and that and the other. When you're first starting out, to precede your phone calls, work on your past clients to get as many reviews as you can. Put those everywhere on your website. If they do sign up for an email list, put those reviews in that first email. Here's a recent client, what they said. They said they were really nervous. They've never done anything like this before. They thought they were going to look silly and now they can't stop staring at themselves. That's going to connect with your potential clients. They're going to say, okay, that's exactly the experience that I want. I'm going to choose them over the person who just said Michael was a great photographer. I highly recommend them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Michael Sasser:

The phone call is, a chance to listen to why they want to shoot boudoir or any genre. When somebody says, Hey, I'm interested in high school senior pictures. Why is that important to you? when the mom says, Hey, I'm looking for a high school senior portrait photographer for my daughter. we're making a few phone calls and you say Around being able to look back at these pictures at this time in their life when they're growing up. And, do you remember like the first time they got pictures when they were like three years old or babies or something and you can connect on that topic?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

Oh, this person understands why I'm doing it. I want to hire this person. Then once you get to price and stuff, it's much easier for them to spend money. Because now they want to hire you for more than just how much it costs.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course, You know what I love? I love how you broke down so easy. not only how that works, how you put it into practice, but also that it can be applied. Pretty much anything else with that last example there. Like I'm thinking of three or four ways that I could use that just in my own wedding photography. And I mean, again, it just increases that demand for your services. And in a time where it comes to like weddings, I know with me personally, with weddings, it feels very much like clients don't really know what it is that they're looking at, but there are so many different, you know, as you said, sub niches of wedding photography, that it really comes to education and figuring out how you get the right. information to your clients, and I think I'm going to sit on that for a little bit and brainstorm how I can put that into practice because I really think that that's going to make a huge change. And again, for really any style of photography. That's great.

Michael Sasser:

Especially for wedding photography, I would say that that is something where people typically call a lot of different people. And the conversations could be relatively similar. Well, how did you guys meet?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

if you can find a question that's less common to connect with them on, to be the person who's like a little bit different, who asked like a little bit more interesting question. I think that's a good way To help you stand out as a way to, yeah, everyone wants to know, how did he propose? Well, let me tell you for the thousandth time, cause I've told a thousand other people, you know, it can be not that those questions don't have relevance, but as far as the same way to ask, why are you interested in a boudoir shoot and share a similar story? That you've gone through or for people that I've known in my life or, to dig a little bit so that they feel like, wow, I'm opening up to this person a little bit. I must be comfortable with this person. now I feel like I want to hire this person specifically is a much more powerful tool to book your clients than how much do you cost? yeah, because that's just a number.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right. And it doesn't tell anything. It doesn't tell you anything. Unfortunately, there are so many photographers, who I would say are within my same price range, but are wildly different in terms of styles. And it's really unfortunate because now I feel like the weight falls on me because I have to make sure that I'm not going to take a client who wants a certain style That I'm not an expert at delivering, you know what I mean? So yeah, I could see how this could be an amazing thing here. I really appreciate you sharing the last thing

Michael Sasser:

I want to, yeah. The last thing I want to say about that is. There's a lot of discussion on like, oh, you shouldn't charge a hundred dollars. You shouldn't charge$200. The point isn't like, at what point are you pricing yourself? There's plenty of people who only have a hundred dollars to spend, or there's plenty of people who only have$200 to spend. And what an amazing thing for them to be able to have quality photography. the point is, even if that's where you're starting, don't make that the main reason why somebody would choose you.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-Hmm.

Michael Sasser:

And especially if that's where you're at and that's the clients that you're getting, use all of that to position yourself. if it's important to you to earn more, to start earning, one, two, three, 4, 000 per client, then use that as part of your journey. To learn how to connect on a more emotional level, because that's what makes people spend money. Nobody spends 500 on shoes because they're more comfortable. Right. Um, because how, how it makes you feel when you're wearing those shoes. Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, of course, this has been wonderful. Michael, I hate to, cut it off here, but I know that we're coming to the end of our time. And you have just shared so much once again, you are an open book, and you're more than happy to talk about, exactly how your business works, which I think is great, especially in a world of don't want to say that boudoir photography is very secretive, but just in its very nature, it feels more private than other forms of photography. So for you to be that person to say, Hey, I'm here. I'm open. I'm willing to help. I know like how this works and you can do it too, is very refreshing and I can tell it comes through and all of your answers. So I appreciate you being so open and honest with all of your answers today.

Michael Sasser:

Absolutely. I appreciate that. First of all, I think boudoir is an amazing genre and it does a lot of good for the world. And the more people that are good at it and charge what it's worth, the more everyone will start to understand its value. You could think Oh, if more people know about it, then I won't be able to charge as much. But, something really funny happened when Starbucks came out, they thought they were going to put all the other coffee shops out of business, but what it did was create a coffee culture that All the little coffee shops started to get way more business too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Sasser:

Starbucks brought coffee to the mainstream, more so. And now everybody knows the value of having a nice warm cup of coffee in the morning. I don't drink coffee, but for most people it does. And same for boudoir. The more people who are good at it and can connect on an emotional level and take quality pictures, the more everybody wins.

Raymond Hatfield:

what do you do to get ready in the morning? If you don't drink coffee,

Michael Sasser:

uh, I just get eight hours of sleep and

Raymond Hatfield:

you wake up ready to go. You're just excited for the day to

Michael Sasser:

sit down on my computer and start clicking away.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's awesome. Well, Michael, before I let you go, why don't you let people know where they can find out more about you and what it is that you do online?

Michael Sasser:

Absolutely. So, I basically have a couple of channels that wish you can connect with me if you guys are looking for free, tutorials. around boudoir, then I've got a YouTube channel that has a ton, 75, 80 videos on the topic. I mean, you could just binge watch, a ton and get started, which is really exciting. So that's the first thing. the second thing is the next free avenue would be my Instagram page, I'm posting, I'm doing Instagram lives. I'm doing some different stuff like that, which is really fun. Also, I've got a Facebook group for photographers. so you can check that out. So my YouTube channel is just my last name, Michael Sasser. You can just Google that. my Instagram page is sasserstillsboudoirstills, like still photograph. And then my, Facebook group is facebook. com group slash sasser education. those are all three places that you can do. if you guys want more in depth, step by step business related tutorials, I've got. Online courses@boudoircourses.com and, that's the setup. I had a blast. Thank you so much.

Raymond Hatfield:

Alright, huge thank you to Michael for coming on the podcast and sharing everything that he did. How about we go ahead and recap what we have learned today. The first thing is to build emotional connections. When you are communicating with potential clients, build an emotional connection by telling stories rather than focusing on features or number of products or photos that they may get. When you are able to understand your client's motivation for booking you, then you'll be able to make them feel way more comfortable and excited about their shoot. Next implement an effective booking system. I love, love, love, love this one. When you respect your time, your clients will too, meaning, structure a work schedule that works for you. For you, whatever your, ideal is, whatever your dream is, and that means setting very specific shoot times to a defined window. Capping the number of shoots that you will take, and if you got to make a waitlist, make a waitlist because that will create exclusivity. So good. And lastly, showcase true beauty. This right here is the mark of a true photographer. Learning what somebody does not love about themselves, and then being able to capture them, and their self imposed imperfections, and, be able to still create an image that they love. Not only love, but then be builds their self confidence, that is truly amazing. You know, it's not about Photoshop. It is about the in person experience. So that is the last takeaway there. I want to hear your biggest takeaway from this episode here with Michael Sasser. Feel free to share it in the free and amazing beginner photography podcast community, which you can join right now over at beginnerphotopod. com forward slash group. That is it for today. Remember until next week, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer that you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.