The Beginner Photography Podcast

488: Karen Williams: How to Find Your Focus In Photography

• Raymond Hatfield

Share episode

In this episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast, I chat with Karen Williams, an inspiring photo editor and photographer who shares the magic of personal projects and the importance of defining your unique visual style. Karen walks us through her journey as a photo editor and offers invaluable advice on curating a cohesive portfolio, the significance of continuous learning, and how to find your focus in photography. 

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Develop Your Unique Visual Style: Master one thing at a time to avoid a patchwork portfolio and define your distinct artistic voice.
  • Curate a Specific Portfolio: Ensure your portfolio aligns with the language and style of your target clients; this captures their attention and showcases your suitability for their projects.
  • Embrace Continuous Learning: Growth in photography requires constant education. Use resources like online courses, books, and videos to keep improving.
  • Leverage Personal Projects: These can be cohesive within themselves, showcasing your versatility and potentially leading to unexpected work opportunities.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  • Create a Mood Board: Gather images that inspire you and reflect the styles you are drawn to. Analyze common themes in your mood board to identify your visual style.
  • Curate Your Portfolio: Select photos that highlight your strengths and are consistent with the style of your target clients. Ensure your portfolio is user-friendly, with fast loading times and no broken links.
  • Engage in Personal Projects: Dedicate time each week to work on a photography project that excites you. Share these projects on your website and social media to attract potential clients.
  • Join Local Photo Organizations: Attend meetups, workshops, and seminars to network and gain insights from other photographers. Participate in photo walks or local contests to build your experience and community presence.
  • Practice and Develop Skills: Set aside time regularly to practice new techniques, whether it’s lighting, composition, or post-processing. Review your work critically and seek feedback from peers to continuously improve.

RESOURCES:
Check out Karen's Website - Blackvisualqueen.com
Follow Karen on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/blackvisualqueen

Get Back your Family Time and Start Building Your Dream Photography Business for FREE with CloudSpot Studio.
And get my Wedding and Portrait Contract and Questionnaires, at no cost!
Sign up now at http://deliverphotos.com/

Grab your free 52 Lightroom Presets at
http://freephotographypresets.com/

Connect with the Beginner Photography Podcast!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Karen Williams:

Everyone can have a camera and everyone would take a different picture of the same subject. It would look so different from different perspectives. And so that's what I mean is like, why it's so important to develop that artistic eye for yourself, believing in that self. I think a lot of photographers automatically just want to go to, oh, all I have to do is put a filter. No, no, no. Because once you know who you are as an artist and how you feel, how you develop, how you want to present your work, then you understand, okay, the reason I'm doing this, or the reason why I'm putting these certain color settings together, this is me. This is how I see the world and how I'm presenting myself.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we're chatting with creative visual director, Karen Williams, about finding your focus in photography. But first, the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by CloudSpot. Everything you need to build a thriving photography business. Impress your clients, deliver a professional experience, and streamline your workflow all in one platform. Grab your free forever account today over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. As a visual creative director and photo editor, Karen's job is literally finding and hiring the right photographers for big jobs. Photographers with strong visual styles and a unique look. So if you're feeling stuck and you're unsure how to find your unique photographic style, then today's guest Karen Williams is the right person for you. Today she discusses the importance of personal projects in creating tailored portfolios, and being forever curious. She also shares how to create cohesive work that opens up new opportunities and shares how to curate a specific portfolio that resonates with that specific client. So if you want to find your voice in photography, this interview with Karen Williams is for you. Karen, I want to know, when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Karen Williams:

Well to go back to before the important role. I didn't know it at the time, but I think I became around age 7 the unofficial family photographer because my dad literally taught me like this is the 80s like early 90s this old camera film and he was like all you do is just dip dip and then you focus like this and then you do that and then I started taking pictures. Now again, it wasn't like oh my god, I'm gonna be a photographer. No, it was just like every time we would go somewhere family vacations I was a photographer. The running joke is if you looked at our picture albums, you would think, oh, it's a family of three. Cause I was taking the photo. In fact, it wasn't like in the day, like now where people are like, Hey, here's my phone. Can you, Oh, okay, cool. Cause everyone just knows, to do that. No, I would just be like, nope. And I was very protective. My mom would be like, Hey, can I like, no, only I can frame it. And I, again, I'm not thinking I'm going to be a photographer. I'm thinking I'm going to be a basketball player, I'm going to be a volleyball player. I sucked at sports. I was okay. I was, like, mid. Then I got into playing the violin. Then I thought I was, again, not good. I thought I was going to be a meteorologist. I was going to be all these different things other than a photographer. while this is all going through, middle school and high school, any event we went to, anything, I would take the pictures. It wasn't until high school, literally my last kind of quarter there, where I took a black and white photography class, and it was in a janitor's closet. And the magic of like, and I think because I wasn't developing the film, we developed the film and then we printed the prints. That's when I was like, Ooh, this is what I want to do. I want to be a fine art artist. Now again, I had no idea about, being a fine art artist. I just knew, this is what I wanted to do, and I wanted to go to school for photography from there.

Raymond Hatfield:

What was it about that power of the print? What was It about that whole situation that, made you say like, wait a second, no more basketball, no more meteorology, nothing like that. This is the thing.

Karen Williams:

It was the magic of, I think, just printing of developing my film, like, ooh, okay, look, you just, you put it in, and then you shake up the canisters, and then look, you hang it out, look, you see the picture, just seeing the magic, that the chemicals were like, oh my god, there's, that's the picture I took, and then, okay, you got the contact sheets, ooh, I want this one, like, picking which ones you want to do, and then the magic of, you expose on this, special piece of paper, you're in the lights, In the dark room and you're putting it through the, you know, the developer and then you put it in the cleaner and then you got into the fixer and like, it's just the magic of creating. I think it was just the tactile experience of creation of, I was taking the photo. And for a long time, it was just kind of automation in the sense of someone else was just doing it. But then when I did it myself, and I was like, wow, I saw it, took it, and then I developed it, and then created, a physical thing with it. And that's where I was like, Ooh, I want to learn more about that. I want to do that.

Raymond Hatfield:

So how did that manifest? Did you go to college for it or what was the next step? I

Karen Williams:

break a little bit, or like a year and a half because I had graduated early. I did like 10 credits so I could just, and I was sick of school. But then eventually I was still looking at photography schools and I ended up going to a small kind of private college called St. Edwards in Austin, Texas, because it was that or UT kind of back then day. But I was like, With UT, I fell in a trope of oh, so many people, in an auditorium and I'm going to be lost in a sea of people where St. Edward's was like very small at the time. It's huge now, but it was very small. It was like maybe seven people in the whole program or something like that. And so, I proceeded, and again, my intention was, at this time, because I did not know any better, I didn't know how to research, Google was kinda something around, like, you didn't just Google, what careers can you have? I was going in there, and the premise of, I want to be a fine art, photographer, and I thought it was so easy. I know, sorry, this, the naivete. You know, forgive

Raymond Hatfield:

was there too, I

Karen Williams:

I just thought, Oh, I could just take a picture. Not understanding. This is why you go to school so you start understanding, but I just like, okay, after a break, I was bored and I wanted to go back to school and I was okay, we're doing this and I'm going to be a fine art photographer and I'm gonna sell my print for 10, 000.

Raymond Hatfield:

So easy, right? So

Karen Williams:

Yeah. So you don't have to show my work in gallery. So easy. Yeah. So that was kind of the next process. And then it going to school, learning more about the process, learning about the greats like I am forever an old school. I still love prints. I love seeing photographers bring in a print for portfolio. I still love seeing the process of photography done and I feel grateful because. of the program I went to undergrad, it was still wet. And it was literally the beginning stages of digital. I did a digital one and two classes and we were like, what, Photoshop three at this time? This was no cloud. There wasn't an Adobe cloud. This is where you bought it and then you could own it. And then maybe in a couple of years I'll upgrade if I want to pay that money to, you know, the next box. Exactly. But I always say I'm so grateful that I learned on a wet, dark room because when I went to Dinnacle, I understood the principles of dodging and burning and color correcting, And stuff like that to apply because I feel like fast forward now, a lot of photographers are trying to get like away with, oh, I just put a filter on it and not understanding why are you putting a filter on it? Why this aesthetic versus it just looks cool. We're taking an alternative, kind of process class where you can be like, well, for this work, I feel like this works the best of how I want to present it. And this is the reasons why. So I always I'm grateful that I did go and get my education to understand, how to critique work, how to speak about my work in a different way. Not saying you have to do it, because there's a lot of great photographers who are self taught, but for me, I'm a nerd. So I needed school, and I liked that learning all that stuff. I just want to put it out there for other photographers. You do not have to go to school. I just recommend if you take, you do a self taught, always go and buy some history books to learn the history and to learn about critique and to learn how to speak about your work. Because I think that is a vital piece of skill to learn.

Raymond Hatfield:

Obviously, so you went to school. And I, completely agree with you. I've shared this before I went to school and after going through school, that was the question that I got the most, right? It was like, is this even worth it? Obviously I went to film school, not school for photography, but it was like, it's worth it for the networking aspect, it's worth it for a structured plan. If you are somebody who, is a self starter and knows what it is that you need, then by all means, you don't need a degree in this, go for it, but if you need a little bit more help, if you need that structure, if you need some guidance, I highly recommend school. Um, yeah. I want to know, what happened next, right? You went to school, you want to become a fine art photographer. what happened? Because today, the path, changed at some point. I want to know how you got to where you are today.

Karen Williams:

After I graduated with my BFA, I still no idea what I was going to do, because what was taught really in school, or what you saw, was either you were going to be a photographer, or a fine art photographer. I suck at studio. I suck at lighting. Like, I knew I probably wasn't going to be a good photographer. Okay. I just knew, but I absorbed the information. I knew what a good image was. sell that street photography that was my jam and I always liked it. It was like a Walker Evans and me, a Lee Freelander and me, the Gordon Parks and me, where I just loved the 35 mil because it was so small. Like I hate it four by five. I love the large prints you get. I love eight by 10. I just don't like carrying that thing and it made you have to slow down and I didn't. I just wanted to be able to pick up my camera document and succeed. But after I graduated, I still kind of didn't know because it was like, okay, am I going to be a photographer then? Or am I working in a studio? So for me, the only viable path I saw was teaching. It's like, if I'm going to be a teacher, And if I'm going to be in since I started school a little later than usual, and I want to kind of speed up the educational kind of process. And I was like, okay, if I'm going to teach, I want to teach college level. Usually you need an MFA. So I went straight to grad school. Again, you don't have to go to grad school. This was just kind of like, what my thinking was back in the day, because I didn't know any other options of how I got to where I am today. So my thing was okay. Okay. I'll be all in that once because I know if I wouldn't have went to grad school when I did, if I would have went straight into the workforce, I would not have gone to grad school. And I think I don't regret any decision I've made because it's got me where I need to be. But I just jumped to grad school. Again, with grad school, you just learn more of the technique. You're just continuing to hone your craft. it was a great community. I went to Scat Savannah College chart design, both the Savannah and Atlanta campuses, and that was a great experience. It wasn't until literally after I graduated from SCAT with my nm FA in 2008, I have to point this out, 2008, this, keep that in mind, 2008, I did, I was lucky enough to get an internship at Inc. Publishing in London, and so. I wanted to go back to London. I had did a study abroad in my time and I wanted to go back to London. I was like, oh, I loved it. I was like, I want to go. I was fortunate to get it and a month long scholarship and I graduated and the university I stayed at. let me stay there. They were like, you have to be a student. I was like, I just graduated. I had the funds because I had left over low money. It was like, I have to pay that back anyway, so let me just use it to that. Ink Publication introduced me to the world of where I am now, of being a photo editor, a photo producer, working with publications and eventually brands. It is, I think still, a kind of A custom publication and when I was there was specifically for like European airliners. So those magazines you see in the back, in your flight, that's what they were doing mostly for the European airlines and a few that I think they had, United as well. I don't know if they still have United stuff, but those were the things they were working on. So that's where I learned about. Oh, okay. So you're telling me I don't have to be a photographer. There's a world where I can work for photographers. I'm doing photo research. I'm essentially just doing logistics, helping still create amazing images, but I don't have to be the 1 behind the camera. That was. I want to be a photo editor. It was a perfect world because I didn't necessarily want to be a photographer. I always say, I couldn't do the photo hustle of marketing yourself all the time, going through the freelance life. It was like the perfect thing. Like I like doing the logistics. I like the production part of it, but then I can be on set. I can still create the imagery you're seeing, be part of that creation and not just necessarily be the sole creator behind the camera. And so after that month I came home, I was like, I'm going to be a photo editor. Let me start emailing people. Okay. Everyone's in New York. Everyone. Okay. Let me start not understanding how to get into the industry, but I just blindly. Okay. Then 2008 fall happened. And then the economy crash. And then the bloodbath of publishing. Yeah, that was the year I decided I wanted to go into publishing. And the editorial in magazines. And I was like, I'm gonna be a photo editor. After that, it was a slow, couple of years. Where I'm working at a cupcake place. I'm doing some internship at a museum. I'm trying to get the experience, because back in the day, entry level was like two to three years experience. Fortunately, I was able to then get an internship with Austin Monthly Magazine. I lived in San Antonio. So it was like an hour drive on the 35 and so I did that drive and I had to explain to my parents why are you doing this for free? And then you have to bring your own computer. I'm like, no, this is how the industry work I have to and it networking because that's how it kind of started figuring out the industry It's who you know getting those references and building up my portfolio to show people this is what I've done, like spread wise. Here's the shoots I've produced, or here's what I photo research, to get that kind of social proof.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm just gonna say, Isn't it funny how not far away 2008 seems, and yet how completely different of a world it was, just in the world of, photography, but also, an entire crash, at the same time, again, I've shared this story before, it's like, that was the last time all the actors and the writers went on strike. I was also right when I graduated from film school. So I was like, I guess I'm not working. I don't know what to do. And that's what prompted me to pick up a camera rather than a cinema camera, I guess. And then get into photography. So, I'm right there with you. And again, it feels so long ago, but also not long ago at all. It's so strange, but, I love this concept because I know that there's a lot of people listening just like you, they love photography, they love creating powerful images, they love seeing powerful images, they love being just around, because there's an energy around powerful photos. But not everybody, can create at such a high level, the type of photography that is, I don't even know how to say this the technical ability that is required to bring out that emotion in people. And I think what's sad is that so many people, and I'll be honest, myself included, I go to so many weddings, and I think to myself, I could do so much better than this. And I look at a hundred other photographers and I'm like, they're way better photographers than me. But I think the problem comes when new photographers say to themselves. Well, I guess that's it. I guess if I can't achieve this level, what am I even doing here? And then they just completely give up on photography altogether. But I love how you're sharing that there's other paths in photography that don't necessarily require you to be the one taking the photos. So for those listening right now who are like, wait a second, tell me more about this. Can you tell me more about what is the job of a photo editor What is the job that you're hired to do? Because again, many new photographers may think that it's just, you're the one who does all the work in the light room, but I know that that's not the case. So can you share a little bit more about what's involved?

Karen Williams:

Of course. It's like a lot of things. When I talk about photo editor, it is, thrown around two different ways. It is thrown away as a photo editor, as like a photo retoucher, because some people will just use that term because it technically they are editing the photo. So that makes sense. But in, I would say photo editor in terms of like how I'm about to describe it, it's used more in the publication editorial realm, where in brands and maybe advertising, it might be like called photo art director or something like that, or maybe a photo producer. And even that goes into different kinds of words where you could be a photo producer and still be doing art direction at the same time or be straight logistical, and being a photo editor like at a publication. So this is kind of the context. I'm speaking it into, is you're a lot of things, and when I get into it, I'll let you know, but basically you are helping and it depends you can be in a team of five people or more, or you could be a photo editor one. I've been in both situations, but basically you are helping to bring to life the visuals of a magazine, whether that is through photo research of looking through stock sites or archives, say, we were doing, a retrospective of all the presidents in the world, you're not going to find that on iStock or Getty or whatever. That's what a photo researcher. that's a tail sign of a good photo researcher where you're going into the archives or you're going into, oh, I know this photographer has in their collection, or they've shot this person and seeing how much they want it to license it for. You're doing photo production. So you're handed, hey, we're going to shoot the mayor, or we're going to shoot this police officer, or we're going to shoot this business owner. Okay. First, you're going to deciding kind of like collaborating with the art director, creative director, the writer, probably. And then the editor in chief of like, here's the direction and vibe we want to go with. Maybe it's like in studio. Maybe it's on location. This is the kind of creative, direction we want to go, getting buy in, getting a consensus, and then finding the right photographer or artist. Maybe it's a photo illustration, so maybe you're working with design of they're working on the illo part, and then you're tasked with the photo part, or you could be doing both, depending on the circumstances. And then again, photo production, you're setting up the photoshoot, you're reaching out to the subjects, or whatever, you are, okay, what day and time are you available. What day and time the photographer, making sure schedules matching, putting together the Photoshop list. Sometimes you're going on set, the location to make sure, you know, your photo art directing and making sure everything is like going smoothly, or maybe you're remotely doing it. Maybe you're not. And you're like making sure you're communicating with the photographer throughout the day, throughout the shoot. So if something comes up, you're able to troubleshoot it. Always being alert, getting the high resin, making the selections. If photo research, retouching is involved, you're helping to facilitate that, making sure credits, the proper credits, how it's laid out, there's so many little things and I would say part time lawyer and making sure that you're like, Hey, where did that image come from? Google. That's fine. But I think the Mona Lisa is going to be like, no, you can't use this. right here, without permission. We may be sued. let me go and see if I can find a start or license it so we know we are covered. And then I always say the bonus therapist, because sometimes you have to deal with meltdowns and stuff. And basically, I always say team photo for life. One of the hearts and souls of like, I think a department because there's so much we have to do in capital. This is just a little piece of what I'm telling you what you have to do with there's just so much nuances

Raymond Hatfield:

There's a lot. It sounds like a whole lot.

Karen Williams:

When photographers from the other side want to come to this side I always say it is a different game. This is not a photography job sometimes you do shoot photography if it depends if it's probably like a smaller publication or maybe a newspaper where you're kind of doing both, but for most times you are behind the desk. I always say you either love this job or you hate this job, because it's a lot of just sitting around the desk and I think the glamour for me. Of why I went to be like, Oh, I'm going to travel. I'm going to be able to do in these fancy shoes, go to Paris, go. And then I started traveling for shoots and started. No, you're still working eight hour days and you're on the shoot, but also you still have to do your job. Like you still got to do that on top of that. So that turns into like 16 hour days of having to stay on top of other work, but then also be on set. I always say the glamour goes away once you go to your one intense shoot and you're like, yeah, maybe I saw the eye for Tyra while we were passing by, but you're not going to have time to, sightsee and all that stuff. But for me, I love it. I just love that hustle and grind. It could be the worst shoot gone wrong, but I'm like, okay, let's do it again. We're going to do it better this time, right? It's like, one of those things, you either love it or you hate it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Where does that come from? Why do you love the chaos?

Karen Williams:

I come from two military parents. I'm an early riser. I love structure, I love dissonance, even though it's like a chaotic world. And again, it's good and bad, because it's like, you shouldn't want to be work yourself to the bone and then almost be to burn out, which I've been in burnout like a couple of times in my life. And it's like the nature of the beast of just being in this industry of kind of like, okay, we just get it done. You just get it done. But again, like I said. either love or hate it, and for me, I just love it. I think at the end of the day, I get the magazine, or the publication, or you see it on a billboard, and you're like, I helped create that. That's a photographer, you see something the first time you create it, and it's on a billboard, or like at a, feature, or the cover, and you're like, It was worth it. it's hard to explain because it's just like the rush of getting that shot. When you know you had the shot, you're like, this is a shot and it's just worth it. it's a hard feeling to describe, but for me, that's why I come more and more and more. Again, there's toxicity, kind of everywhere you go, but it's just like how you handle it. And for me it's like at the end of the day, if I'm loving what I'm doing, the team I'm working with, the other stuff kind of just prefers away. Mm-Hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. can relate to that. but I wanna know, so One of the main jobs here is that when you get a brief, when you know what is needed, you have to go out and get it done. And sometimes that involves hiring a photographer to capture the images. So you see not only a lot of photographers, but you see a ton of photographers work. So I guess the first question is in a situation where you get some sort of brief or you need creative, delivered, How do you start? Do you start looking at a bunch of portfolios? Do photographers come to you? Do you already know the photographers you want to work with, who you want to work with? How does that process work?

Karen Williams:

And so I would just start gathering first, kind of like just searching, Who are like favorite photographers of mine? Who are photographers I want to work with? Then, it's like a layer of, getting recommendation from other photo editors and producers. Who do you recommend? And then also meeting photographers as well. So it's this never ending of collecting of kind of resources in a sense of my Rolodex and knowing that, oh, I love this photographer. Not right for the job, but when I get a job where I'm like, okay that's gonna be the right creative brief for that bill. I'm gonna reach out to that person. When I'm always trying to put together a list of photographers I want to work with, it's always like the first is matching the brief. And I sometimes have a wild card in there where it's kind of the opposite because I will also pitch like, Hey, I was kind of thinking, maybe trying something like this, right. 99%, it'd be no, but you know what I mean? But for me, it's a mixture of all those kinds of things of like past bookmarks that I might've been like, Hey, I want to work with this person to, Oh, I just met this person in a portfolio view. Ooh, I would love to start, work with them and referrals. just depends on the brief. Mm hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. And that makes sense. That was a great answer. How, do you determine, who is right for the job? Because, I'm trying to get in the head of the listeners right now who are thinking, Ooh, maybe I'd like to travel to Paris and like do this thing. How do I get here? So I guess, let me frame this question here. Are photographers trying to, show you work that they think will work for a specific brief or are they even involved at this point before you are reaching out to photographers? And if so, what are you looking for in their work?

Karen Williams:

First, reaching out comes after, a discussion with the team. So first, I will get the brief. And then I'm discussing with the team members who's involved, right? And then we're coming to a consensus. And I want to put out there, usually we're not the sole decision makers as photo editors, we're working in a team and depending on like editorial more, each side is collaborative, but sometimes in brands, it's like the creative department is kind of like an internal marketing team. Agency kind of marketing. So here's a team and here's our budget. So they're kind of like, say, we lean to this will be, favored because, hey, they are putting in the funds to fund this. Right? Nothing, but they lean on our expertise. So we come to a consensus and then I'm looking at for photographers portfolios that are curated to this. And I want to put out to photographers why having a great curated portfolio that is speaking the language to the brands and publications you want to work with is so important.

Raymond Hatfield:

How do we do that?

Karen Williams:

So I always say when you're looking at your portfolio first, you have to kind of figure out, you know who you are as a photographer because we do not want copycats. We're always looking for a photographer that has a unique guy we're never trying to look for a photographer who shoot the same because each creative brief is different one might be like we want it all in studio and high key art, high key light, or the next one might be, okay, we're going outside on a hike and we want natural light, and that's two different kind of masquerades. And so. I see a lot of tutorials where photographers are trying to play it safe and be generalist, and those kind of go at the bottom of the list because I'm looking for something highly specific usually most of the time. And I want to see a mastery. I want to see a carefully curated portfolio that I can show to different people and keep in mind these different people on the team may not be visually in depth, as me where I could see the potential, maybe, and there may be like a couple of it, but I see enough that I'm like, I feel confident that attire, but someone might be turned off, no, I don't get it. And it's just a quick yes or no. first, know who you are as a photographer. Define your own visual style. What makes you you. I always say it's better that people are reaching out to you because they like your vibe. And they're like, we want to work with you. And we want what you do applied to whatever we want you to shoot. You know, knowing that you always you're going to work within there's, seeing a back so creatives, and stuff like that, but they're not hiring you to be like, oh, we like your work now. 180 do this.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure, sure,

Karen Williams:

Then curate it to that language. So if you want to shoot high in luxury, I'm working for Tiffany's. I'm going to be looking for high end luxury in that portfolio. It can't be having no broken links. Well, just in general, no broken links. It needs to load fast. Golden rules of website. No broken links. Needs to load fast. appropriately with awesome images. Need to know a location and contact email. You can have a form in an email but don't have a form because we like to feel like we're reaching out to real people Sorry and back to the question, but that's what i'm always looking for first it's like that portfolio. I want to feel confident that you know how to do What you're showing me inside now, so if something goes wrong on set A to C? Okay. B. Okay, then it works. C. If I'm seeing a bunch of high pocketing, kind of like, different types of looks, no consistency of overall visual look, that's kind of a pass for me. I should know kind of 95 percent what I'm going to get, knowing there's going to be change.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course, that's, I think something very difficult for new photographers to understand. So I'm hoping, I can ask a question here. That's going to help wrap our minds around this, which is, many photographers today, just myself included, I might shoot a portrait of my kid, my neighbors might want some family photos. My daughter has softball. I'll go out there and take some photos of that as well. We might go on hikes, but then also sometimes I like to get a little fancy with stuff and maybe do some product shots. That's a lot, right? There's a lot of different things in there. And even in, your example, you might be looking for luxury, you might be looking for high key. You might be looking for just nature, like going out, how do we show visual consistency or what does visual consistency look like over a range of different images?

Karen Williams:

I love that question it's not that you have to stick to what I mean, curated and specific. oh, all people and all this. No, no, no, no. You can shoot different types of content of genres and kind of categories. And a lot of people do, but it's the visual consistency of how, and I say it's like the aesthetic. And a lot of people will take that, well, they just all put this filter on it. This is why I always advise photographers look at key players in the genre and the work you want to be producing that they are getting the work that you ultimately want to be getting to look and look at how they are positioning themselves. And I do this all the time when I work with photographers or when I put fully loose. I'll show examples, and again, These are not to compare to like to yourself like oh my god There's no no no this just give you an idea of look at this person Look at how visually how they're shooting fashion I always give it one example this photographer and this person shoots fashion, but because of her skin It's like kind of visual consistency of how she shoots that. She carries that over in how she shoots travel, how she shoots events, how she shoots product, and she gets hired for that. hard to explain because it's like kind of a visual thing. You have to look, but that's why I always tell photographers, look at other photographers and you'll, the photographers you see getting these work from like these top brands and top publications, they all have a vibe. One might be, it's like a soft natural feel another might be like, this is obviously, my thing is gels kind of thing and it's applied to they have developed and this is kind of tandem hand in hand of develop their own visual in a sense of this is how I see it. Myself as an artist sees the world, and I think newer photographers sometimes fall in the trap where I have to do everything. So I have to kind of make everything look the same. And it's no, the most important thing as a photographer and why people look to your work is they want to see how you look at the world. I look at the world versus you look at the world. Definitely, at the same time, if we went down the same street, This, and Adam, both of us went down the same street and we were photographing. Your photographs are probably going to look way different to mine's because I'm going to see the beauty of probably, I loved shooting abandoned buildings and like raggedy things because I saw the beauty of the forgotten. Where you might be like, look at that couple sitting on the bench, look at this couple or look at this person right here playing, you know what I mean? that's what I love about photography because the thing is everyone can have a camera and everyone would take a different picture of the same subject. It would look so different from different perspectives. And so that's what I mean is like, why it's so important to develop that, artistic eye for yourself, believing in that self. Then the visual consistency of how you process it. I think a lot of photographers automatically just want to go to, oh, all I have to do is put a filter. No, no, no. Because once you know who you are as an artist and how you feel, how you develop, how you want to present your work, then you understand, okay, the reason I'm doing this, or the reason why I'm putting these certain color settings together, this is me. This is how I see the world and how I'm presenting myself. Knowing that It can evolve, because that's why I say a lot of these photographers you see on top of the game, look at their early work. You will see a progression, because they're continuing to master their craft and continuing to develop their eye in a new way. But still feels like them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mmm. Well, this may be kind of a hard question or maybe it's a real easy question. How do we do that for ourselves? How do we find what our focus is? How do we define what it is that we want to focus on? If it's not necessarily subject matter, and there's other options, like you said, lighting editing, how do we begin to find our focus in photography?

Karen Williams:

I always say, do you have to do it? So I would say, go and start looking at visuals. Put together a mood board. See what you're attracted to because I can tell you there will probably be a through line on why you like these certain images. And then the next step is to go shoot it. Go start photographing. I think a lot of photographers think, oh, I have to photograph after school or after you're self taught. I only shoot when I'm getting hired. The only way you develop, it's like that. I forgot who said the quote of, it takes 10, 000 hours to really develop thing. You got to go and start shooting over 10, 000, 10, 000 photos over and over and over again. You will find quickly. What you're passionate about because you'll start saying I'm passionate about shooting people I want to get that story cuz you know to me or I'm passionate about still life I love being able to control the environment and control the elements and coming up with my creative mind like, okay Let me try, I'm gonna knit the whole scene together and then I'm gonna place the light, you know I mean there will be an inner spark I believe that will come out of you, but you have to do and it's hard I always say this is the unsexy part of it and I don't think it's taught enough, but you have to really sit there with yourself and figure out and whatever works for you, some people like to go walks, some people like to journal, whatever works for you, you got to sit down and be like, okay, there's a reason why I love doing photography and really get deep into it. Once you've kind of figured out, then you kind of lean in to that. And again, it doesn't mean that let's say you have multiple interests, it doesn't mean that those drop away, but you have to focus on one thing first to master. if you want to shoot weddings, you want to shoot portraits, you want to shoot cars. Okay, cool. But here's the thing. if you don't master all three of them, they're all going to look mid and if one looks amazing, but the other two looks mid, that's going to bring down the amazing portfolio because people can't trust you. So you have to master kind of one thing at a time. And then once you say you master portrait, okay, you want to add travel to it. So then from your portrait and how you've developed your visual eye and you know, your artistry, how do you apply that? What you're doing to portraits? To travel photography. How do you apply it to still life? You're not reinventing the wheel because that's why it's so, important to first know your visual eye and know how you think, and then you apply that to these other genres. And that's what makes the whole thing consistent. It doesn't feel hodgepodgey. What I run into, I'll be like, this is amazing, you know, portrait, portfolio. This is your strong suit. And then I get to still life and I get the food and then I'm like,

Raymond Hatfield:

What's

Karen Williams:

we have not mastered. Again, food photography is a different beast than portraits, then fashion that, you know what I mean? There's different skill sets. So are you committed to learning that to be the best that you can be in those different genres?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's hard. That's a hard thing to do, right? and kind of goes back to another reason why I always suggest always continue to education, but maybe school is the right choice. if you hear that and you think to yourself, Okay, master it. I get that. But what exactly does that mean? then you definitely need help. So again, I really appreciate you breaking that down that helped me out a ton

Karen Williams:

May I add to that? and it doesn't mean you have to go back to school. Here's the thing for me, I take a bunch of courses. I remember I took like lynda. com or, those other subscription ones. Like I would wait until they had sales for, it's 9. 99 and I would just load up on that. you know what I mean? or go to the library and just check out books, read it. YouTube, TikTok. Now, there's like a video for everything. The thing is you have to be able to apply it and you have to practice it and do it. And you have to know that you're gonna suck when you first start, but if you keep doing it, it's just like when I start running like I suck, but I keep running and it gets easier and easier and easier. Right? So this keep in mind, give yourself grace, but there's many different paths where you do not have to go to school. If you want to go to school. Great. That works for you. Perfect. But there's so many different like online courses, that's cheaper or free YouTube videos. You just have to take, be able to be a self starter and go and start doing it and practicing it because I always tell photographers, that is the only way you're going to grow and master in a sense you gotta do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, you gotta do, you gotta do. I end every, episode of the podcast with, the more you shoot today, the better of a photographer that you'll be tomorrow. Because, it's not necessarily the camera gear that you got. it is literally just getting out there and doing it. Like you said, it's the 10, 000 photos. you gotta do it. So, I want to know now we understand, what the photo editor is. We understand what a photo editor is looking for. We understand a little bit about how to find our focus. so let's say that we've gone out and we've shot, say our 10, 000 photos, and now we have a collection of images that we're happy with that we like that are uniquely us somebody who has seen a lot of portfolios, how do we start to build a portfolio that is going to stand out when we give it to somebody?

Karen Williams:

So I always say my suggestion to people because you know again it took me years to be a great editor. So when I started I sucked I was like, these all look good People come to me and like, no, Karen, why are you picking the ones with the people's eyes closed? So let me know and let you know I

Raymond Hatfield:

You weren't. You weren't picking photos of

Karen Williams:

so, you know, I mean maybe not but not thinking about Oh, do you see how awkward or not being able to see certain things, right? It took years to kind of like hone in where now I can look at a photo and make sure i'm scanning it clearly but I always tell, photographers, once you kind of know, first, again, circle back to the brands you want to be looking at, one trend to book or publication you want to book, visually see what's out there, what kind of your competition of the kind of shots they have there, then you're going to go into your own work. First, I always say go with first pass of, and I always say, ask this question, is this photo, gonna serve me now to get the jobs I want because this is sometimes you could be like, these are all my favorites and trust me, I was one of those in school where how dare you tell me my 27 photos too much for this portfolio. No, all of them are needed. Sorry. Bye. Like, so I feel you, I tell you like again, and when I edit, I always tell the grapher these are not my babies. I'm not attached, so I'll kill your darlings. I'm like, I'm a cutthroat. I'm like, Nope, nope, nope, nope. This is why I feel like it's best. So sometimes, when you're kind of wafer back and forth, I would say first just ask you a question. is this photo serving you? to get the job you ultimately want to get. If it's a yes, keep. If it's a no, it doesn't mean this photo goes away forever. You can put it on socials, put on a blog, or if you desperately need to see it on a website, make another website for yourself that you only see for yourself and just put it on there. And then you can look at it every day. Okay, once you've kind of called that down and I always say where the kind of general format I see for websites and again, it's however you want. I see Websites where people want to be super fancy And some that are straight just a tumblr page It just depends on your artistic vision and how you express your work Usually but template the format you see is like an overview and then you see I always say You Then have the, diminished turns of clicks, like what's the first thing is the one you want to get hired for and like kind of the genre and then you go from there and there to contact. So I'm just going to use an example. Overview should be just a hit, quit. This is the advertiser where you're like, people are like, Ooh, this is amazing. These are A images that can stand by themselves. They don't need a context of another image around it. These are basically, I would say, billboard images or covers. Think of it like that where you have to sell something before someone enters, flips over the magazine or wants to Google the brand because they love that image so much. So think of it like that and trust me, it's not as many as you think.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Karen Williams:

No one makes, like all these A things, because you do stories, right? You do a fashion story, and you're telling a whole, story, but not all those images are cover worthy, in a sense, you know? And I'm not saying they can't, but you know, there's a reason why, that image was chosen as the cover. So it's Think of your overview as these are my cover images. These get people excited to want to click more and stay on your site. So that's what you have to think. You're curating to speak the language to the brands and publications or the kind of work that you want to attract to yourself and people to be oohing on. about Then the second time, let's say, I want to shoot more celebrity portraits or portraits. And here's the thing, if you want to shoot celebrities, And you don't have that in your portfolio first to start off with kick ass portraits Okay to get the attention and start getting work to start kind of building yourself up to that But you will be like, okay portraits and then maybe you're having that Let's say I shoot some still life and it's awesome. I always say how many clicks Does it take to get to where you want people to go to? And where do you want them to go first? because of TikTok, we have an attention span of what, seven, five, seven seconds? So kind of think, so think about that when you're kind of curating your, portfolio. First, you want to be speaking the language of the kind of work to attract the companies you want to be getting work for. And then making sure that the photos, are like bangers. I'm like in the lane of less is more. Don't put everything in the kitchen sink because you can have what I see ruin portfolios the most. I'll see Oh, this is amazing. Amazing. Like what the hell is this image?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Karen Williams:

that image? And then you're starting to make me question, you do this? you're having like hodgepodge kind of things where it's now throwing me into question, can you deliver? So that's why I always say it's like, make sure, not saying here's the thing, portfolio will get you in, but what always will keep you in the circle kind of like, or people recommend you is how you deliver. So don't be putting things, if you don't feel 100 percent confident, I should be able to pick anything from your site. And be like, okay, I want a baby of that, and you know how to do it. Like, I literally just tell you, I want a baby of this. Like, I like this lighting here, I like this background here. I want a baby of that. And do not put anything you do not want to be hired for. I have had that so many times where I will pick the image, I really love the picture, and they're like, oh, I didn't like it. But I just put it up there because people

Raymond Hatfield:

Really? Even at like, a high professional level? Wow. That seems like such a new photographer thing because it's so like, you typically think, don't have enough in my portfolio, I need to just add something there. But even at such a high level?

Karen Williams:

I would be like, no, do not put anything you do not want to be hired for because you will be hired for that. Cause I've done it before where I reach out to a photographer and it's like, Oh, we like this. And they're like, Oh, I don't really like it. I like the image kind of, but I don't really, I don't want to do that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Yeah.

Karen Williams:

I've had that. So I have to tell people like, that's why I say you can have favorite photos, maybe put in your personal projects. here's the thing, if there's something that you really love, but doesn't really fit the vibe of what you're trying to sell yourself as, in a sense, personal projects the ticket because personal projects can be whatever you want. Now, remember, again, you still want it to feel cohesive in a sense, not like cohesive to the thing, but the personal projects should feel cohesive within itself. So it might be like, I'm a high end celebrity portrait photographer, but here's what I did when I went to the studio. Trip to Haiti or something or you know to me or I went to Paris and I documented tour funds Right and that again personal projects can get you other work because I've hired photographers based on their personal projects before so it's like oh and we look, say I'm sports illustrator or something I'm like, oh we really liked your work that you did with the tour friends Would you like to do something like that again? Mm-Hmm?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I had Brad Mangin on the podcast, a while ago who he was like one of the first photographers to document MLB just with Instagram and he got a ton of work because of that. And it was just a personal project. He wasn't like selling these photos or anything. So, that's a great. And I'm glad to hear that, it, wasn't just a one off thing and that it happens in more cases than that. So, Karen, I know that people are thinking of themselves right now. This is wonderful, but I definitely don't want to get to the point to where I put in all this work and eventually build a garbage portfolio. So, as we end our conversation here, can you let us know where can we find out more about you online? Can we find more information on how to go deeper into our focus, get more into the business side of a commercial photography here and, build a awesome portfolio.

Karen Williams:

And so for me, you can find me@blackvisualqueen.com and then all my socials is Black Visual Queen and I daily on LinkedIn and Instagram will. tips and, you know, nuggets, but other resources though, that I always point photographers to is, this is how I learned about being a photo editor actually is you're not following like a photo editor. com. So Rob, I'm a former like photo director of I believe outside magazine. he has a website and a, Instagram. I say that's like 100 percent he first of all have tabs for like legal terms. He posts estimates To give you like clear, real estimates from real jobs to show you hey, this is how people are billing This is what people are putting in them He also does these anonymous surveys with real commercial photographers and asking them questions They answer whatever they want to answer, but they'll give you like real time rates they're, pros and cons, rule advice from working photographers in the game to give you insight and wisdom. So I 100 percent recommend him. He's the one why I actually learned kind of what a photo editor does because I just would follow him and be like, okay, what are you doing? And how do you break in? Another source is also a wonderful machine. They have such a great detailed blog and that's another place where you can go and reach out to their services if you ever need help, putting together an estimate or anything, that's another place. ask a rep also on, Instagram. she's kind of a hybrid agent where, she gives daily advice to photographers about pitching portfolios, estimates and stuff like that. So I would say those are kind of my top kind of three to get more resources and also your local like photo, you know, chat, organizations, to reach out and they usually have a ton of information.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right, let's go ahead and recap what we have learned today. One, utilize personal projects to showcase that unique work. Personal projects will allow you to explore themes and styles that may not fit your, current style, but can still showcase your versatility and your creativity. These projects honestly can lead to new opportunities and help you to stand out. So step one, identify maybe a subject or a theme that you're passionate about and just start a personal project. Next, curate a tailored portfolio just for clients. So a well curated portfolio. It should speak the language of your target client, right? It should showcase your strongest work that aligns with your client's needs as well. So, build yourself a portfolio and then regularly update that portfolio to ensure that it matches the type of job that you want to attract. And also be sure to remove any images that maybe you're not 100 percent confident about delivering, just so that you can avoid any sort of, booking a job that maybe isn't the right opportunity. for you. And lastly, just master one skill at a time. If you want to develop a unique photographic style, that requires focused effort and continuous practice. So choose one area to master, such as lighting or a particular editing style or shooting style, and dedicate a substantial amount of time to practicing and refining just that. That is it for today. Until next week, remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.