The Beginner Photography Podcast

491: Colie James: CRM Essentials for Beginners: Streamline Your Workflow

• Raymond Hatfield

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In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Colie James, a family and documentary-style photographer with a deep understanding of client relationships and business efficiency. Colie shares actionable advice on utilizing CRM tools to streamline client communication, ensuring a balance between personal touch and automation. She also dives into camera mastery, particularly mastering ISO settings for challenging low-light situations. Today you'll learn how to create an organized workflow that saves time, ensures consistency, and enhances client experiences. 

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Automate to Elevate: Implementing CRM tools like Dubsado can streamline your client interactions, helping you save time and boost efficiency.
  • Personalization Matters: Even automated emails can feel personal by incorporating customized elements and reflecting your personality.
  • Master ISO Settings: Don’t fear high ISO levels; experimenting with settings can help you capture stunning images in low-light conditions.
  • Client Involvement: Engaging clients in the process through detailed questionnaires can lead to more personalized and meaningful sessions.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  • Implement CRM Automation: Set up a CRM tool (e.g., CloudSpot Studio or Dubsado) to manage client communications and bookings. Create templates for common emails, adjusting for personalized touches.
  • Customize Client Interactions: Develop a detailed client questionnaire to gather information on preferences and needs. Use the responses to personalize emails and tailor sessions accordingly.
  • Master Low-Light Photography: Experiment with higher ISO settings to gain confidence in low-light environments. Print test images to evaluate noise levels and adjust techniques.
  • Create an Efficient Workflow: Write down all client-related tasks and identify which can be automated. Use your CRM to set up automated sequences for proposals, invoicing, and follow-ups.
  • Enhance Client Experience: Integrate a three-step proposal process to simplify bookings and secure clients quickly. Regularly send nurturing emails to keep clients engaged and informed, promoting upcoming sessions or products.

Resources
Check out Colie James Website - https://coliejames.com/
Follow Colie on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/coliejames

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Colie James:

If you can get people to book you faster using that three step process, I honestly don't care what else you do in the CRM that is going to get you paid, which is going to get you more clients, which is going to open doors for the other things. So if you can just do those three things. It's brainstorm what you want to do with each of your clients. Write that first autoresponder email and then pick a CRM and do the proposal quote system. And I mean, guys, it's not even going to take you, I'm not talking about hours. I mean, even with absolutely no skills in automations or CRMs or anything like that, you are going to be able to get a proposal quote system done in an hour, maybe two.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we're diving deep into the game changing world of business automations with family photographer and CRM expert Coley James. But first, the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by CloudSpot. They got everything that you need to build a thriving photography business, impress your clients, deliver professional experience workflow all in one platform. So grab your free forever account today over at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. Now, if you want to run a successful business, or even if you are a weekend warrior, having a way to manage your clients and their shoot info in a CRM or a customer relationship manager is. It's a must. Now today, Colie will talk all about how to make a CRM work for you rather than you working for your CRM, so that you can spend more time shooting and spend less time doing all the boring business y stuff. So if you have ever thought to yourself, you know, I kind of want to get into these automations because it'll save a ton of time, but I'm also worried about sounding like a robot. No worries. Colie will share how to balance automations while keeping the personal touch your clients expect. We also talk about family photography, specifically how hard it is to shoot indoors with, so much less available light and how Colie learned to master low light shooting indoors with fast moving kids. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Colie James. Colie, my first question for you is, when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Colie James:

Oh, wow. So, I've been in business since 2012, and I was always that kid that walked around with a camera. I mean, in high school, people used to yell at me because I had, like, the really cheap 110 disposable cameras with me at all times. I had absolutely no boundaries. And, like most family photographers, when I had my daughter, I got even more obsessed with photography. The year before I had my daughter, I actually bought my first DSLR. So, I mean, I was 30 years old before I had like an actual good, decent camera. Took it to Hawaii for a vacation with my husband and shot the entire time in auto. So clearly not skilled, just obsessed. And then after I had my daughter, I was extremely burnt out from teaching because I was a professor before I was a photographer. And I just told my husband, I'm not going back, I'm not going back to the classroom. And he was like, okay, what are you going to do? I said, I don't know. I'll figure it out. So for a few years, I nannied just so that my daughter could have a playmate. And then. When she was going to preschool, I was like, okay, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? And so, you know, I had been taking photos and I will admit like owning my own business, regardless of what it was, had started being really interesting to me. Like I had thought about opening a daycare. I had thought about going into real estate, all of these things where I could be my own boss and not have someone ever tell me what to do again. And then I was like, you know what? I like taking photos. Let's see how this goes. And that was how I started my business.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Okay. So, let's back up to those high school days, right? When you have that one 10 and you're, taking photos at this point, you said it's just point and shoot photos, right? That's all it was. Then you progress into the DSLR. You decide to purchase that all those photos were shot in auto. Today we live in a world where plenty of people just take photos with their iPhones and they're totally happy with that. Right? Just point and shoot photos. That's what you did in Hawaii. What was it about photography that made you think, you know what? I actually want to dive deeper into learning how to use my camera. Was it strictly the business or was there something creatively? You know, it

Colie James:

was, it was definitely creativity when my daughter was born. I mean, you know, we all experienced this. We don't shoot as professionals. We don't shoot in auto for a reason because usually the shutter speed is not adequate or your F stop is, off. So what I started noticing was she was moving too fast. Like I was beginning to see motion blur and I was like, okay. So how do I eliminate that? So then I went into the, Oh, let's buy, all of these photography books so that I can actually learn about the exposure triangle. And that was when I discovered, I think I was first in aperture mode. And then eventually that was like, okay, that's still not enough control. Sure. What else can I do? But actually. Actually, now that I'm remembering it, oddly enough, I didn't transition out of aperture mode until I got really into video because at that point I had a Sony a 55, which is a S L T. It's what they had before mirrorless was actual mirrorless. It was a fixed, mirror instead of it being gone. But. That one didn't have full control over video. And so I was taking videos and the exposure was way off. And I was like, okay, I need a new camera, but I also need to learn more about how to control all of the things for photos and video. And so that was when I was, you know, I just, I don't know. I think I was studying. Like I was back in college, like every single day, like two to three hours, I would read about things. And then I would, test it out on my camera. And most of it was still crap because it took me a while, but I mean, that was how I really got into the creative side and really wanted to master the technical aspects of my camera, because I don't know if you know this about me, but I'm definitely an overachiever. So the fact that I was still taking photos and they didn't look exactly like I wanted them to look was a problem for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So tell me more about that. What was it now that you have the experience of, shooting for a long time when you look back at those photos, you knew that you weren't happy with them. What were those elements that you weren't happy with? What was it? Honestly, not being able to do it

Colie James:

fast enough.

Raymond Hatfield:

So

Colie James:

I understood the exposure triangle, but like my hands couldn't keep up with the scene that I was shooting. I should also say one step back, I only do in home family and films. Family photography and film. So I am not an outdoor shooter for the most part. I mean, I will take my clients outside, but like 90 percent of my sessions happen in home. And so in a house, every time we moved to a different room, the light was different. The color was different. And I was just having trouble keeping up with the changes. And, It wasn't until I really slowed down and I would be like, okay, no, I would shut the door so that Chloe could not run away. And then I would kind of master the things in that room. And then we would progress to another room versus me just running frantically around the house. Trying to keep up with her and change all the dials. When we went from my room, which had a decent amount of light, but Turquoise walls uhhuh into her room that didn't have enough light with Hunter green walls, I mean, that was the first, the townhouse that we brought her home in was the first house that we bought. So of course, the first thing I did was paint every wall. Every non neutral color that I could find because for years we lived in apartments that were rented and all of the walls were either white or cream or some, very bland color. So the townhouse that we moved from last year had very, very colorful walls.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is awesome. So you really had to learn it was trial by fire, right? Like you put yourself in a really difficult situation. Not only as you said, with the limited light coming in through windows, which obviously changed direction depending on what room you're in. But then, making it even difficult, more difficult with the color of the walls. Oh my gosh. So at that point, I'm trying to think through this. So for new photographers right now who may be in that same situation, what out of, you know, the exposure triangle, the ISO, the aperture and the shutter speed, what was, what for them would be most important to focus on?

Colie James:

So oddly enough, coming from an in home session, I say this an awful lot, but mastering the ISO on your camera and learning exactly how far you can push it in terms of noise was like the best thing that I ever did for my business personally, because I photograph everybody in homes. I still get people that say, Oh, no, I don't use my camera above 1600. And sometimes when people say that, I literally spit my coffee out and I'm like, what camera do you have? You know, at one point someone told me, Oh, I have a Mark three. And that was when Mark three was like the brand new camera. And I was like, you only shoot your Mark three X at ISO 1600. Are you insane? I would shoot that thing at like 10,000 and not look back. And they were like, 10,000 And that's when I always like, I used to have a folder of images on my computer that I would basically bring up and, put into the social media. This is ISO 8000 This is 5000 This is 10, 000. And they're like, there's no way that those are ISO 10, 000. I'm like, they are. You have to learn how to use the light and how far you can push your camera. But once you get that done, you feel so much more comfortable shooting families inside of their home, and you're not as worried about the quality of the images that you give them, and how they will look printed. I tell people like, I used to tell my students don't go below 8000 in a house. Just set your ISO at 8000 and do whatever you have to do in order to take the photos. And then I want you to print those photos because everybody just thinks that if you go above that magical number, whatever it is, 1600, 1300 3200 that once you go above there that your images is full of noise, and they are always amazed when I tell them, I would say the biggest majority of images that I shoot in homes are at least ISO 5000, at least, of course, now I have, Nikon mirrorless, they do shoot better indoors. But I mean, back when I was using a D 750, which was a really popular camera. Yeah, most of my images were between 3200 and 5000. And so people just still find that shocking. That I was delivering those images to clients. And I'm like, yeah, they're printing them on their walls. They look great. I don't know what you guys are scared of. I

Raymond Hatfield:

think we just go ahead and roll the credits right now. This episode's over. That was perfect. If there's one thing that, listeners should take away, it is 100 percent that. Do not be scared of your ISO. Right, right. Okay. So the

Colie James:

fact that people spend 3, 000 on a camera.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Colie James:

And they're treating it like it's a, I don't know, like a 600 point and shoot. I'm just like, no guys, the camera costs 3, 000 for a reason. Push it to the limit. You can push it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Okay. So, I want to move on more to where you're at today, but I want to stay on this for just a second longer. Okay. Where do you think that disconnect is? Like, why do you think that beginners are so worried about going over a certain limit? Is it that they're zooming into their photos as much as possible? Is it that they're not printing their photos? So I think it's.

Colie James:

It's everything. Raymond's literally, it's everything. People are not printing their images. They are zooming in. And what I want you to understand is your client is not zooming into a hundred percent like you are ever. If you haven't printed your images and the same goes, I mean, there's a million reason that you should print your images. You should print your images so that you make sure that you're confident in the color that you're delivering to your clients, but you should also print your images so that you realize noise is not the bad thing that it turns out to be. I mean, and I don't want to say a big part of my business, but several sessions a year. I do our full day in the life's I sleep at a client's house. I wake up whenever their children wake up and I immediately start documenting them. Guys at six o'clock in the morning. There's no light, right? I mean, there's no natural light. And. I don't know how you guys feel about your houses, but my house is very dim at six o'clock in the morning. Even if I turn on every single artificial light in my house, there is just no light. So, that early in the morning, I don't have a choice. But one of the reasons that I'm so confident is because, the first time that I did a day in the life, I think I printed almost every image. The second time that I did it, I printed every image and I looked and I'm like, well, no, these are great. And, you know, my clients are not expecting that. and expecting like a plus. Let's print it on a wall as a 24 by 36 at six o'clock in the morning when I jump in bed with them. I mean, they're doing that to get the memory, but the images that will end up being printed on the wall will usually come from later in the day when there is more light in the house and I'm shooting, not at 10, 000 ISO, but maybe closer to that 5, 000.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh my gosh. This is so perfect. This is again, so much that beginners need to fully understand about ISO. It is, billed as this, devil, I guess, for lack of a better term in photography. And, uh, it could just be that they're

Colie James:

looking at old stuff. I will also say every time someone says, Oh no, I would never push it above 1600. I'm like, where did you hear that? Like, who is still giving you this myth of not going over 1600? And a lot of the times people will be like, Oh, but when I Googled and I'm a stop. And

Raymond Hatfield:

So you haven't done it for yourself. Okay.

Colie James:

Stop Googling. Stop YouTubing.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm telling you that you can push it and it will be fine. It could be that you're shooting it, so high because you're at F8 or something instead. Like let's, let's learn settings before we Let's learn settings. Yeah.

Colie James:

Let's come back to the basics. I

Raymond Hatfield:

love that. Okay. So on your website, you know, today, I know that you said that you shoot, uh, you photograph families, you do documentary style stuff, you do day in the lives on your website. It says that, nine years in business, more than 250 family shot, 46 States visited three cups of coffee daily. My obvious question for you is what are those four States that you have not, uh, Oh my gosh.

Colie James:

And Hey, if anybody listening, if you live in these States and you want me to come photograph you, please holler at me. That's what I'm hoping for. I have not been to Alaska. I have not been to Wisconsin. I have not been to the Dakotas. Oh, those are my four. Okay. And the funny thing is, I'm in Colorado. I literally just need to drive to Mount Rushmore. I mean, and it's been on like our list. for several years because my husband's like, you know, we should just go knock those out. And what we finally decided was once I get Wisconsin, we're just going to finally get me over the hump. So we're going to drive to the Dakotas, do both of those. And before the pandemic, my husband had promised me that for my 40th birthday, if it's what I wanted, we could do a cruise to Alaska. And, newsflash. I turned 40 during the pandemic. That didn't happen but eventually I do want to get to Alaska, although I don't, think we're ever going to get on a cruise ship ever again, but, I do have faith that I'm going to hit those four. And I've also been to almost all of the territories. There's still a few that I need to visit mostly in the Caribbean, but, I've been to Puerto Rico. I've been to Guam. They're actually my two favorite places to visit. So I do hope to knock them all out in the next one to two years.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, we have, quite a few listeners in Wisconsin and the Dakotas and a few in Alaska as well. So, maybe you'll have an excuse to go up there. But all silliness aside, I mean, really all those stats, it sounds like you have quite a bit going on. You're pretty busy, which means that you have to have some sort of systems in place for you to run your business. So, let me just start off with the basics. What are systems and what processes are you, putting into your business?

Colie James:

All right, guys. So I see systems as any structured list that you can make of what you want to do with every single one of your clients. And I will admit right now, I'm a Dubsado guru. I have a course. I help people run their businesses in Dubsado. Um, But it amazes most people that my initial advice has nothing to do with the CRM before you should ever think about a piece of software, you need to literally sit down at a desk with a piece of paper and a pen and do some mind mapping. You need to write down all the things that you want to do with your client from the time that they inquire until you deliver. That is actually your first step before you even think about automating anything that list of tasks. Is your system now automating that system is a different story, and I always say that the best thing that you can do for your business once you start to get clients and you're, deciding that this is actually a business for you and that you're going to continue is you should automate as much of that as you can possibly handle because if a robot can do it. You do not need to be doing it. Every single email that my CRM, Oh, let's back up CRMs. Yes. Client relationship managers. It's basically a piece of software that can handle your client communication and your client onboarding and booking system. So I am a Dubsado user. I use that starting with a contact form on my website. When someone fills it out, it automatically brings them into Dubsado my CRM. And then I send them a series of emails. I send them a scheduler to have a discovery call. I eventually send them a proposal so that they can book me if we're a good fit. And then I follow it up with, questionnaires and emails. Guys, these are all things that we're all doing. I am just a big advocate for doing it all in one piece of software to save you time and save you money.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So my first question is, I can see the, biggest objection, which I've heard directly from people in the Beginner Photography Podcast Facebook community, and that is how, like, photography is a pretty high touch thing, right? How do we automate these emails when we're supposed to stand out and show them, a good experience? Does that question make sense?

Colie James:

Oh, 100%. And it's actually the most popular question that I get. And here's my answer. Have you met me? So all of my emails sound just like me. Now, if you ever see me on Instagram, guys, I cuss a lot. I don't cuss at my clients and emails, but Everything else that you hear me say on Instagram, I say to my clients and emails, I have gifts of myself waving and giving the thumbs up and blowing kisses and like banging my head on something, depending on what the mood is. I make gifts of myself. I use gifts from like pop culture. Schitt's Creek is my favorite. Set of gifts right now to use, but I include those in every email that doesn't have a call to action because I don't want to distract them from what I'm telling them to do. If I'm trying to get you to book, I'm not going to, distract you with a gift. The button is going to be colored and it's going to say, just book your session, but any other emails, I just make sure that I talk like myself. I also make sure that I include GIFs because when I send automated emails, my clients still reply to them. Okay. Because they think that I sent it to them personally. That's how good I am at sending automated emails that don't lack personality because automation does not mean you have to sound like a robot. Plus, none of us should be more worried about sounding like a robot than we are taking care of our clients. Now, I don't know the age demographics of your podcast,

Raymond Hatfield:

25 to 40.

Colie James:

Okay, so you guys are under me because I'm 42, but guys, I'm beginning to forget a lot of stuff. I mean, I don't know if it's because I have too much going on or because I'm just getting old, but there comes a point where you can't keep it all in your head. Okay. And so the CRM helps me because if I'm ever confused, if a client got an email or if they filled out a form or if they did any of the things that are part of my client journey, I can just go look in my CRM and see if they did them. So I value that more than I would ever value sounding like a robot, because at the end of the day, I want to make sure that every single one of my leads and every single one of my clients gets a consistent client experience for me. And one of the only ways that I can do that is making sure that, I mean, I would say at this point, probably 60 to 70 percent of my stuff is automated or at least templated. Let's take one step back. Just because I'm telling people to automate doesn't mean it has to go automatically. Every single CRM has an approval button. So if you put a step in your workflow that it's in email and you're like, Oh, but I want to add a personal note. 80 percent of the email will be a template.

Raymond Hatfield:

But

Colie James:

if you put that approval button, you can hop in there and just say, Hey, it was Nicole's birthday last week. I hope she, you know, had a great birthday and I can't wait to see you next week. I have automatically taken an email that's preparing them for their session and made it extremely customized by taking exactly 60 seconds. So that is also how I make sure that the experience that my clients are getting is a really good mix of things that send them automatically versus things that I just pop in there, take 60 seconds to customize it, and then I send it

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a great, differentiation, different, is that a word? Differentiation. Perfect. That's perfect because on top of sounding like a robot, I know that the biggest thing is, when it comes to automation, one of the biggest things that's holding back new photographers is this idea of like, hold on, somebody sent me an email, how am I supposed to automate a response if I don't know what's necessarily in that email, and what you're saying is, there's a series of information that every single client needs to know. And then outside of that, you can customize the email however you want and add in those personal touches, specifically answering their question or whatever before moving on, in the system, right?

Colie James:

Yeah. So, people often ask me, well, Coley, if I want to get started, what's the first thing that I should do? Well, besides sitting down and writing out the list of all the steps and all the emails and all the forms, the very first thing that you should write a template for is your auto response to an inquiry. Now. If you're using a CRM and you have a workflow question or you have a question inside of your lead capture, that's like, what kind of service are you interested in? Most CRMs on the market will let you automatically start a workflow from their choice, and then you can send them a very customized, Templated email for each of those. So in other words, when someone contacts me and they tell me they're having a baby, I send them an email that gives them a link to a maternity session, a newborn session and tips for how to have a great newborn session in that email. It also says, thank you for contacting me. I'm so excited to be discussing, photographing your growing family. And then at the end, I always say, and you will hear from me personally within the next 24 hours, because guys, when someone inquires on your website and they get that email five seconds later, they know that you did not write it. Sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course. I

Colie James:

mean, and I actually make a joke. This is an automated email from me. Don't worry. You'll hear from me soon. I mean, so that they know that, you know, you will be hearing from me because I put that line in there because, like you said, sometimes clients ask questions and I want to make sure that they know, hey, this is just my automated response. I want to keep you interested. I want to give you things to look at on my website before I can read what you actually sent me. And answer any questions or give you specific answers to, you know, whatever it is that your family needs for their photos.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Okay. So before we move on to other types of systems that we can have in our business, I can hear people saying right now, they're, starting to tune out because they're just not busy enough for CRM. You know, they don't need that. Right. Oh, it's a myth. Oh, perfect.

Colie James:

Okay. It's totally a myth. Here's the thing guys. And I hear that a lot. People are like, oh, but I'm not busy enough. I don't have clients, but what people don't. Like sit down and think about is right now. You actually have the time to think about all of those tasks. You have the time to write the email templates and guys, nothing to say that after you have 10 clients, if you decide that this one email doesn't sound, you know, it's not effective that you can't go and edit it. You can totally do that. But right now, while you're not busy, while you're still trying to grow your business, if you put the systems in place, What will happen is you will spend less time booking clients and nurturing the ones that pay you money to give you more time to market, to get new leads, because what will happen is if you wait until you get the clients, You're never going to set these things up because you're too busy trying to service the clients that you have to set up the systems to help you run your business more efficiently. And you know what lacks then you don't have time to go market to get more clients. So it's like this vicious cycle. The best time to set up a CRM is actually before you get busy. Now, not to say that once you have all those clients. And you don't have time to set up the systems and you don't have time to market. That's when you get stuck hiring somebody like me to do it for you. So if you do it now, it will cost you less because you have time to invest versus later when you're drowning and you can't handle the people that are inquiring, you're not servicing the clients that you have already. And just remember guys, clients rave about your services. If the experience is good. I can't tell you how many of my own clients rave about the fact that it is so easy for me to book. Cause once we have the conversation and I send you the proposal, I mean, you look at the offer, you sign the contract, you pay me the money, you get the booking confirmation email. I mean, it's all very streamlined and my clients love that because there's no back and forth. I mean, I will say before I had a CRM. Like back in 2014, 2015, I was doing everything manual like everybody else. I was sending them the offer. And then when they said yes, I was sending them a contract. And then when they signed it, I was sending them an invoice. I mean, if you can eliminate those things, you will book more of your leads and then you will have more time to chase new clients, which of course is the goal. And you know, guys, so much. I'm sure Raymond's had somebody on here about SEO, but you know, blog gets your SEO good because then the leads will just keep on coming in. And once you have your systems in place, that will just be streamlined. And there will come a point where leads are coming in automatically. Clients are getting processed, semi automatically, and then you get to go to Disney like me, you get to do whatever you want to do with the extra time that you get from your business. But. Definitely the time to start is before you are busy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Wow. That was perfect. And I know that, Kim in the, uh, beginner photography podcast community is listening to you right now and she's thinking, okay, I gotta get to work. This is getting serious because everything is manual and needs to be changed. So, I think we understand now that the inquiry phase definitely needs some sort of automation from the autoresponder, as you said, contracts, invoices, payment. What else can we possibly automate in a photography business? We can't automate the photography, so what else is this for? Oh, well, hey

Colie James:

guys. You can, you can hire, you can outsource your edit.

Raymond Hatfield:

You can,

Colie James:

use something like PickTime or another online gallery in order to do your sales, which is totally what I do. I will say if you guys follow me on Instagram, I talk a lot about Dubsado and I feel bad because I feel like PickTime is like. The evil stepchild, and they're really not. So there are two main pieces of software that run my business. Dubsado is what gets me paid. Dubsado is what brings the clients in once they inquire, gets them all the way through their session. But then there's a whole second half of my business with PickTime. So after the images have been edited by my outsourced editor, I, go through them. I look at their film and then I upload everything into PickTime because I use the simple sales process, which is. You charge a session fee and then after your clients look at a slideshow, then they buy one of three collections and all of that is automated and pick time using one of their magical apps. So I'm a big believer in automation all the way from inquiry to delivery using those two pieces of software. But, if you are still running out of time and you don't want to be all inclusive and you want the opportunity to make more money, definitely look into something like simple sales or selling your collections after in your online gallery software and figure out how much of that can be automated. Because even in other systems, like, I mean, I would imagine ShootProof, you can sell them a certain number of digitals and they can pay you through ShootProof. And you again, don't have to invest time in going through to enable a download and do all of those kinds of things. So there is more automations and systems to be had other than your CRM.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. I love that. So on top of the CRM, on top of just sending out emails, are there other things maybe on the back end that help us as a photographer that we could. automate in our business

Colie James:

mean, I already talked about my client questionnaire and I am a big believer in the client questionnaire. I think it's a really big part of my client experience. I am really nosy. I asked my clients like 30 questions on their client questionnaire. I mean, I asked him about what music they like, how you met your spouse. What do you love about your home? All of these things. So that when I walk into their house, It's like, we're already friends. We can really skip the get to know you, the really awkward, 15 to 20 minutes, the beginning of each session where no one knows each other. No one knows what to say. Yeah. I haven't had that awkwardness in quite some time, but after they fill out my questionnaire, I have that automatically sent in Dubsado So three weeks before a family session or six weeks before a newborn due date, those questionnaires automatically go out. And I have, honestly, guys, I'm gonna be honest, I have forgotten about some of my sessions sometimes. And like when I'll be at Disneyland on a ride, I'll get a notification that someone filled out their questionnaire and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm photographing them in three weeks. So I meet and prepared. These things help me stay on top of my business without actually having to do every single task myself.

Raymond Hatfield:

So the questionnaire is, obviously it helps you to avoid that awkward phase. Does that help, dictate what, anything that you shoot? Anything, um, It does. Because I'm in

Colie James:

home and I'm documentary, I like to call myself an activity based photographer. Ah. I want to get into how you like to spend your time with your children, what the most important activities are that you're currently doing as a family. It's very common for all of my families to want to make a meal. So I mean like breakfast and PJ's making pancakes. It's a really cute activity, guys, because the kids stir, you know, they try to scoop and pour pancake mix goes everywhere. It's great for photos. Every single time I need to know what your kids are doing new, what your favorite moment is, because a lot of the times I'm going into someone's house and I'm basically trying to photograph the moments that they've tried to do themselves and they either couldn't do it well because, the kids were running the iPhone couldn't keep up or they just can't get in the photos because, you only want so many photos where someone's holding up their phone in a selfie. So I'm basically asking them like, what was your favorite thing that happened this month? And if they tell me, Oh, so and so learned to ride a bike. Okay. Well, I know to be prepared to be outside to watch their child riding the bike. Cause you know, there's a lot of opportunity. Mom or dad's going to help them get on their bike, going to hold the bike before they leave off. I mean, all of these are good moments to not only get the memory, but also make sure that the parents are there. Are part of it and inside the frame. So yes, the questionnaire is good for me to get to know them, but it also helps me plan for their session. So after my clients fill out that questionnaire, they automatically get a confirmation saying, thanks for taking the time to do that. That is such an important step in our experience. I'm going to look over your answers in the next 24 to 48 hours, and then I'm either going to schedule a call, or I'm going to send you a quick video with a plan for our session, and usually that's me telling them. Okay. You said that you wanted to get the kids in the morning. Do you really want me to show up at 630 when they wake up or do you want to wait until 10 o'clock when there's more light outside? I mean, I give my parents the option. I tell them what it will look like if I'm there at 630, which means all artificial light, you know, nothing like that. Or I say, you can fake it and feed them snacks until 10 o'clock and then we can make breakfast. So, it sparks an entire conversation and then parents are even more excited about the session because they also feel really invested. They feel like they really got to give their input on what was most important to document for their family versus, you know, In a normal portrait session, the only thing that mom really gets to, focus on is outfits, right? Sure. I mean, in a lot of cases, clients don't pick the outdoor location. The photographers do. So parents are not really giving a lot of input other than their clothing. And I 100 percent tell my parents, I don't care what anybody's wearing. Please let the kids be comfortable. Please don't force them to wear something that they don't like, because then they're going to cry the whole time.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. wow, that is a great tip. And I wonder, At least it makes me think, how can I involve my couples more in their photos? However, I guess with a wedding, a lot of it really is up to them because, well, they plan all that stuff. Well, like for

Colie James:

weddings, for example, I would be asking them about the relationships. You know, who is it important, like in 20 years, and you're showing these photos to your children. Who do you want to point out to your Children to tell them that they were there at your wedding? What kind of stories do you want to be able to tell your children when you're sharing the wedding album with them, and I just think that helps them really put the priority on, what's important to photograph and what's not because, they think they want photos of the flowers. Right. 20 years from now. They're not going to be pointing to flowers being like, Oh, you know, mom and dad spent 5, 000 on these photos. Kids are going to look at you like you're crazy. So it also helps ground like any photography experience that is about moments and memories

Raymond Hatfield:

that I had to write that down because I'm definitely going to add that to my questionnaire. That's a fantastic question.

Colie James:

Another thing. Thank you. Even if they've never gotten married before, which let's, I mean, most people getting married haven't gotten married before, ask them if they've ever seen their parents wedding photos. And what they loved about looking at their parents wedding album, if they had one, because it also helped shape what they liked about it and what they didn't like, even if, the whole wedding process is new to them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right. Yeah. That's a question that I ask usually during an engagement session. And the answer is always like, Oh, they look great. Yeah, so that they don't want those kind of photos. Exactly, exactly. Yes. Listening to kind of the systems that you have in place with, so much automation and, we're going to schedule calls, we're going to send videos, we got GIFs going on. That may be a bit overwhelming to a lot of, new photographers who are maybe only shooting once a month, maybe if that. So, can we boil this down to maybe its most like simple form? Okay. You said Three things. Okay. Let's are you ready?

Colie James:

Raven? I'm

Raymond Hatfield:

ready for the three things.

Colie James:

The first thing that I want you to do is I just want you to write. I want you to make that list. Even if you don't implement that entire list, you have to sit down with a piece of paper and you have to think about and guys. I'm not telling you it has to have a timeline. I'm just saying someone inquires on your website. You send them an offer. You send them a questionnaire. You deliver the images. Each of those needs an email. Then you can go from there to say, okay, if I'm sending them a client questionnaire, I want to say thank you for filling it out. If they don't feel it, I don't want to send them a reminder. That's what I mean by making a list guys. It's nothing too, difficult. You just sit down and you brainstorm. The second thing that I want you to do is I want you to start with the autoresponder because if you can't get a client to commit, if you can't turn a lead into a client, None of the rest of it matters if you can't get them across the finish line, which brings me to my third thing. I know CRMs are overwhelming. I know systems are overwhelming, but guys, that three step proposal or quote process, depending on which CRM you choose, is worth its weight in gold. If you can present the offer. Have it automatically show an electronic contract for the client to sign and then automatically show them an electronic invoice to get paid. If you can get people to book you faster using that three step process, I honestly don't care what else you do in the CRM. That is going to get you paid. Which is going to get you more clients, which is going to open doors for the other things. So if you can just do those three things, brainstorm what you want to do with each of your clients, write that first auto responder email, and then pick a CRM and do the proposal quote system. And I mean, guys, it's not even going to take you, I'm not talking about hours. I mean, even with absolutely no skills in automations or CRMs or anything like that, you are going to be able to get a proposal quote system done In an hour, maybe two, especially if you already have your contract and you're just, copying and pasting in there and you already know what you're going to charge. Those things are not difficult. Almost every CRM has online help like from the company itself for free. So if you have questions, ask in their Facebook groups, schedule a call because Debsado will let you have two calls with someone from their company a month that you can schedule for free. And so there's just no excuse. Even if you only use it to book people faster.

Raymond Hatfield:

Uh,

Colie James:

that is worth so much in terms of growing your business.

Raymond Hatfield:

That was perfect. That's definitely going to be edited into its own little clip right there to be shared with people because, uh, again, I mean, that's one of those things. So I know that, okay. One of the biggest hurdles is I don't think that I'm ready for it, which we talked about. The other one is, okay, now I'm too busy and like, I need to be able to set this up. So as we get to the end of our conversation here, for those who are in that situation, maybe they have. Too much on their plate and they need help setting this thing up. You got an answer, right?

Colie James:

I do. And guys, I'm going to be honest. I don't think everyone needs to hire me. So I'm going to tell you all of the CRMs have free options. If you would like to go that route, if you're unsure, join their Facebook groups, schedule a call with one of their people so that you can talk to them. I am never above the free. Okay. Especially when you're a beginning photographer, like I don't object to that. I have two offers. I have a course for family photographers and it's for other photographers, but you'd have to do a little bit more work. And then I also set up people's systems as a VIP day. I do both the difference between getting the free help and getting the help for me is that I am giving you my system that is already tailored to 100 percent work for photographers so that I make sure that you are not missing any of the steps that have made my business successful. That's the difference. But I do not want the fact that you can't afford, or it's not the right time for you to get into a course or hire someone for a VIP day to stop you from starting. The 1st step is picking a CRM. The 2nd step is getting that proposal system set up because I'm telling you it when you book your 1st client. And it's practically auto. It's like magic. It's the best. I mean, you know, hey, you could be on a ride at Disneyland and you could get the little cha ching, you have gotten paid. And it's like, I mean, cause I get those quite often, but I'm in, Oh, you know what, Raymond, I also have a comparison chart for photographers. So I will give you a link to that. It compares the most popular CRMs for photographers so that you can see what the different features are so that you can pick one that's right for you. I highly recommend them Sato guys, but I realized not everybody's like me and that's okay, but you know, I just encourage you to pick one. I also want to say when you're a beginner, if you pick one and it's the wrong decision, it's not as bad as when you're really full in business and you pick one and you want to switch switching is not always easy, but. At the beginning stages. I just want you to pick one because you're still early enough in your career to where if you figure out that, you know, there's something better out there. You still have time to change.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, it's all about taking that 1st, that 1st

Colie James:

step guys, Coley will pat you on the back. And Hey, if you take action and you jump into the worlds of CRM, I would love for you to contact me on Instagram and let me know it's at Coley James guys.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's perfect. I love it. Koli, let me ask one last thing here, since you are the expert in CRMs and systems and putting these things together, is there anything maybe that I didn't ask you today that you want to make sure that, beginner photographers understand about setting these up and getting it going? Okay.

Colie James:

So the one thing that we didn't talk about is. I put so much emphasis on making sure that your onboarding and your booking process is automated. I maybe don't talk about the other ways that CRM's help you after a client has booked. I briefly talked about the client questionnaire. But the other thing that I want to say is that you can prepare your clients for anything. So I call them nurturing emails. I have been guiding most of my students in my course, and I've been doing it for my VIP day clients. If you are someone who is offering the images in an online gallery system where you can sell products, Guys, people don't just sell products because you put them in a store. People sell products because you make them want to buy them. I know you guys can't see if you're listening to this, but I have an entire wall of wall art behind me in my office. I have little video clips, GIFs. I have a video walkthrough of my favorite products that I send my clients after the session, but before they get their images and that just makes them want to buy products more. So anything that you think your clients would be excited about, you should write an email. You should automatically send that email at some point after they book and before you deliver so that you can get them excited about whatever it is that you think is most important in your business. Now, I will say one of the ones that I recommend to most people, because again, guys, I don't care, not even a little bit about styling. Like most of my kids in my sessions where PJs or tutus, that's my favorite. But if you are someone who does like Outdoor sessions and styling is a big part guys. There are so many nurturing emails that you can write related to styling. You can offer them Pinterest boards. You can do all of those things and you should go ahead and plan those emails. It does a couple things. Number one, it makes sure. That if you are really invested in what your clients wear and you want them to be, that you're providing help. Your clients are going to think that it's such a high touch experience because, oh, you're helping them with this problem of they don't know what to wear and you're helping them solve that. So, any problem. That you think that most of your clients have write an email about it, put it into your workflow after they book and send it automatically because they're not going to care that you're sending it automatically. If you write it in the right way, they won't even know that it's an automated email.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think that just goes back to how much photography is a service more than just a product. I mean, today, Koli, you have shared so many fantastic tips on how we can obviously get started with this, but also how we can go deeper. Like that last tip right there, send out those style emails. That is something that can be, you know, done so easy. We as photographers, I know you're sending them anyways, right? And you are, you

Colie James:

are thinking about it every single time you send it, right? Instead of like sitting down for an hour, really thinking about what could go into that email, when the optimal time is to send it, you put it in a workflow, you don't ever have to think about it again. So one hour up front versus like, I don't know how long it takes you guys to write emails. It takes me forever if I'm writing it from scratch. So, at least 30 minutes for every single client. Oh my gosh, you're going to save so much time. It adds up.

Raymond Hatfield:

It adds up. And that's, at the end of the day, I think, as photographers, we like to spend our money on things like cameras and lenses, but once you get into the business side of it, you should really figure out how to spend your money on things that are going to, yeah, save time systems. Exactly. That's so great. Coley, I want to say again, thank you so much for coming on, sharing everything that you did. You shared your Instagram there a moment ago, but, aside from that, or heck, share it again. Uh, can you let others know where they can find you online?

Colie James:

I can, I'm on Instagram almost every day, guys. I make funny videos. I mean, it's not even mostly about photography. I'll admit It's at Coley James. And then if you're interested in just seeing my photography work, that is coley james photography.com. And if you're interested in learning more about systems or getting on my email list, that is coley james.com. So I do have two separate websites now. One for photography and one for the systems side.

Raymond Hatfield:

Alright, let's go ahead and recap the big takeaways from today's Rewind interview with Kully James. One, automate to elevate. Yeah, implementing CRM tools like CloudSpot Studio or Dubsado can streamline your client interactions. And that will help you save a ton of time and Boost your efficiency. Win win. So, go ahead and set up a CRM tool, again, like CloudSpot Studio, or Dubsado, to manage client communications and bookings. When you're in there, you can create things like templates for common emails that you send out, and then just adjust them for those personal touches. Number two, Personalization does matter. Even automated emails can feel personal when you incorporate customized elements and reflect, on the couple and their personality. So develop a client questionnaire to gather the information, that you want out of your clients so that you can then use that in your responses to personalize those emails and tailor sessions accordingly. And lastly, master your ISO settings. Yeah. You know, don't fear personalization. High ISO levels. Experimenting with your settings can help you capture stunning images in low light conditions. So, experiment with high ISO settings so that you can gain that confidence in those low light environments when you find yourselves in them. And then, print those test images so that you can evaluate, noise levels in a tangible form instead of just zooming in five to one on a computer, you know, pixel peeping. Cause that doesn't really tell you much at all. That is it for today until next week. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.