The Beginner Photography Podcast

484: Pablo Giori: Alternative Photography Processes to help you Innovate and Create

• Raymond Hatfield

Share episode

In this episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast, I chat with Pablo Giori, Photographer and Director of the Experimental Photo Festival. Pablo shares  the importance of creative play and community support in experimental photography. Learn how embracing failure can lead to innovation, and discover diverse techniques you can start experimenting with today. As you listen, think about how you can implement these creative approaches into your photography practice, embark on new projects, and connect with fellow photographers to amplify your journey.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Experimentation is Key: Embrace experimental techniques to discover new artistic expressions. It's about exploring possibilities and not fearing failure.
  • Community Support: Surround yourself with a supportive community. Sharing insights and feedback can elevate your photography.
  • Embrace Failure: Failure in experimental photography is an opportunity to learn and innovate. Every setback is a step towards mastery.
  • Creative Decision-Making: Make informed and creative choices at every stage of your photography process, from selecting the camera to post-processing.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  • Try Cyanotype at Home: Purchase cyanotype kits online or from your local art store. Follow easy DIY tutorials to practice making cyanotype prints with household items.
  • Experiment with Photo Soup: Gather some instant photos and submerge them in water with different chemicals (e.g., Coca-Cola) to create unique effects. Document the process and outcomes to refine your technique over time.
  • Attend Workshops and Fest: Find experimental photography workshops or festivals to expand your skills. Join online sessions offering practical tips and hands-on learning.
  • Try a Project on Double Exposures: Collaborate with another photographer to swap films and create double exposures. Experiment with different themes and document your learning process in a visual diary.

RESOURCES:

Get Back your Family Time and Start Building Your Dream Photography Business for FREE with CloudSpot Studio.
And get my Wedding and Portrait Contract and Questionnaires, at no cost!
Sign up now at http://deliverphotos.com/

Grab your free 52 Lightroom Presets at
http://freephotographypresets.com/

Connect with the Beginner Photography Podcast!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Pablo Giori:

This industry has taken a lot of decisions. You are going to have this format because this film is cheaper and you are going to have the exact colors And this is this is this is all the decisions are made you may click and then you have a camera six by nine Print in a paper that is a regular one The industry has taken tons of decisions for you what we want to do with experimental photography and that's kind of the concept of total photography is recovering Your possibility of making decisions in all these different aspects.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we are chatting with the director of the Experimental Photo Festival, Pablo Ghiori, about how you can start to experiment with your photography and create brand new types of work that fulfills you creatively. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by CloudSpot. Everything you need to build a thriving photography business, impress your clients, deliver a professional experience, and streamline your workflow all in one platform. Grab your free forever account today over at DeliverPhotos. com and only upgrade when you are ready. I am all for trying something new. Uh, I am totally the kind of person who has too many hobbies and interests and honestly, the more unique, the better. One way to make your images unique is to be unique yourself and actively try new things. So, uh, the definition of creativity is when you take two or more ideas and you bring them together. So, again, the more experience you have trying different things, the more opportunities you'll have to create something new and uniquely your own. And the Experimental Photo Festival that Pablo has created seems like the perfect place to do just that. Expand your mind with, you know, all new, uh, and different things. Now the Experimental Photo Festival sounds amazing, but it's in Barcelona, Spain. So for those of us who are stateside, uh, we can actually attend the conference and workshops online if you can't make it over there. And while it does take place obviously in Barcelona, Pablo has reassured me that the classes are either taught in English or available with English subtitles. So go ahead and check it out for yourself over at experimentalphotofestival. com. And if you find a class that you like, Take it. Now in today's interview with Pablo, you're gonna learn how to never fail when trying something new. That's because you only learn new ways to not do something. How to make creative decisions at literally every step of the process from camera choice to processing to publishing and sharing and the importance of community when trying new things. You know, it really helps to have others, uh, to lean on and get input on, uh, as far as how you can improve. That makes the whole thing so much more fun. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Pablo Ghiori. When did you know that photography was going to first play an important role in your life? Silence.

Pablo Giori:

I have the feeling that it was, not so far away. We can talk about ten years or so, because I have two different, I mean, One is more the research and the historical point of view. And the other one is my more practical, taking pictures. So to say, and then my last version as the director of experimental photo festival. But the first one was, mainly doing research when I was doing my PhD in history. At that point I realized photography was a really strong, a powerful tool. for understanding history. That was kind of my first moment when I just get connected with photography from a more professional point of view. Then I study more about conservation, research, and heritage of archives of photography. And then I start doing photography by myself, trying to follow the steps of the avant garde, uh, Moholy Nagy, Man Ray, all those kind of things because it was connected with the photographer that I was working. Here in Spain. doing that project. It was. I mean, it was crazy that I think that was the moment when I realized that my, uh, my expressive, um, necessities go through photography in a clear way. And then when we started with the festival on 2025, 6, 7 years ago now, because we started really at the end of the 2018. Yeah. When I start organizing things related with photography with this worldwide community that we have on experimental photography, that sky was kind of really clear that photographers were, the most interesting people in the world. And I really want to get connected with these conversations with photographers.

Raymond Hatfield:

Can I ask what were you getting your PhD in

Pablo Giori:

history.

Raymond Hatfield:

history? Okay. So

Pablo Giori:

Yes. Contemporary history. It was a comparison between Spain and Canada.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, wow. So what was it about photography? Because, I know a few people who have their PhD and it's a very analytical, process to get that done. And then you find photography and it's this, it's almost an entirely different world. What was it about photography that made you say, Holy cow, this is way more interesting to me than, uh, than maybe pursuing a PhD.

Pablo Giori:

No, I mean, I, I had my PhD.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, of course, sorry, I didn't mean, yeah, just, but, but just to take a lot of that time and now, now focus it

Pablo Giori:

Yes. at that moment, the I mean, the photography that I was interested the most was in the archival one, thinking on the first part of the 20th century, 50s and 60s, how you can really interpret the society from their photographic. It was not from an artistic point of view. It was not related with my own work, but trying to interpret what the archives were telling us from history because I was doing a comparison, a historical comparison between. And Catalonia, it was related with civic society, popular character, nationalism, different subject. It was not directly linked with photography by when I start checking the different documents, you have a lot of books, you have magazine, and then every time that I found the photography, I say, okay, but there is some information that these, on these photographies that are not really On the literature or in the text that people has written about all these moments, you know, that was the moment that I saw that there are so much information on those photographies that we really need to have a lot of information to interpretate them. And that was kind of the moment when I said, okay, this is not a normal document. This is totally the contrary of what I'm working now with experimental photography. Obviously that we are really going. more or less against this idea of the document, but at the first glance for me seeing the photographer as a really historical document just blow my mind.

Raymond Hatfield:

So when did it go though for you, I'm simply, ingesting these documents to, I'm going to pick up a camera for myself and start shooting. Was the idea to document your own life or was it just to play around? Tell me more about that.

Pablo Giori:

It was more linked with experimentation because I'm a specialist in a photographer from Barcelona. He's called Pera Catalai Pic. He was one of the avant garde people mixing double exposure mainly and photo montage. it was the first guy that bring the collage and photomontage to Spain in the, at the end of the twenties. And I was doing, it was not part of my PhD, it was the next project. I was doing a biography about his life, working with his family. It was really, really interesting and I was really trying to understand how this guy works. You know, really trying to put myself and my life and my body and everything on his hands. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously you can do a biography of someone if you don't really do what this person did every day. You know, I had this necessity of really becoming myself a photographer for really understanding deeply, how being a photographer was. And that was the moment when I bought my first camera and I started doing photography. And then I really I think that I get in a deeper understanding because you know how amazing can be to make a great photography, how frustrating can be not to find exactly what you are looking for. All those things were happened to this guy, you know, and it was a really amazing way of really deeply connecting with his daily day life.

Raymond Hatfield:

That has got to be difficult to, uh, find a photographer, uh, who you like and then try to start emulating their work to see what it's like being them, Surely you didn't, you know, take that first frame and say, wow, I got it. This was perfect. it's an exact copy. What were some of those earliest challenges that you faced when, when trying to achieve the style of photography?

Pablo Giori:

At the beginning, I started with double exposure, and then that was the biggest project I was, I'm mainly doing because I, I'm not doing a lot of photography now as I'm a researcher now, and also the director of the festival. I don't have a lot of time, but I started learning double exposure because that was mainly what was this photographer doing also at that time. He was doing it in the dark room because he was doing photo montage. I was doing double exposure in That's why I'm playing with my camera. all the time. this project was, uh, it's called Film Swap Worldwide and I was doing double exposure by Film Swap. Film Swapping is, uh, you have a film, you make your film at your place, then you take it out, you send it to another one, this other person put the film on their camera without knowing what they have shoot or nothing and just shoot it again. And you create a double exposure with someone else, without knowing what is on the film and just. Doing it again and trying to see what the result of this chance of good mixings are. It was a good way of questioning authorship, obviously, but also it was really good to go out from this really technical or strict. photography, you know, because in the end you are doing a film and you never know how this film is going to get mixed with another one. And that was pretty frustrating at the beginning, but it was also really powerful because I was really lucky at the beginning. And I did a couple of them that they were kind of really, really good. And I say, okay, I want to go this way. You know,

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so Oh, most people get into photography. And they're like, I'd like to learn how to control my camera settings better. And you're like, I wanna, I want to shoot film in a way to where I'm gonna send it to somebody else and then they're gonna shoot it as well to double expose it, and then we're gonna develop it to, that seems like such a, difficult way of, of trying to learn this process. But sometimes I guess, uh, education is best, uh, trial by fire. So, how did those, how, like how did those first roles turn out?

Pablo Giori:

some of them were really amazing. And then in the end, I published a book with the best part of that project. I, uh, I make exchange with sick, 80 photographers at that time. Till now I have 120 from all over the world is one of the biggest. Projects in the world with this technique and then you make friends you get connected with others others give you comments Also what you are doing. Well what you are doing wrong and then in some moment you learn from doing photography that way Obviously I was connected with film clubs and other things and also with all the lomography community I mean, I was obviously in contact with other people. I was already an specialist in archives in photographic archives I mean I was I was I was really well connected with photography in general. I was not just a regular amateur doing economics and just going to make some shooting films on the weekends. I was, much more get into the details of photography, but that was my first way of getting in more in a practical way. And it was really fun. And it keeps being really fun. Even if I have been working with more than 120 photographers, every time that I travel, I just make a couple of films and then I mix them. It's really fun. Uh, we have a party at the festival that is called the Film Swap Party and I just put there all my films and I just exchange it with others and then see what happens, you know?

Raymond Hatfield:

That is so cool. That is such a great idea with, I find like some of the best ideas have such a high potential for failure. but when they come out, It feels like a Grand Slam. Like it is. It is so cool. So, obviously you mentioned the festival there. Why don't you tell me a little bit more about this? Because this sounds like, right up a lot of listeners alleys. A lot of listeners are, photographers who maybe they learned photography a number of years ago. Maybe they did it at high school. Maybe they learned on film. They had a career, you know, whatever it is. And now they're looking to get back into it as a, as a creative release. And, and doing something fun, doing something new, doing something different in photography is always something that piques my interest. so tell me about where the idea of the festival came from and where it's at today.

Pablo Giori:

Yes, it's a long story. I'm going to try to make, uh, as short as possible.

Raymond Hatfield:

we got time, we got time.

Pablo Giori:

If it gets too long, you can just say, shh, shh, shh, shh. And I can just make it shorter now. It's okay. I started, um, just going more chronologically. I started with this project of double exposure, and then I start creating a community here in Barcelona with people also doing double exposures. Because I wanted really to create a small community of people teaching and learning what we knew they were. I found 10 people here and as there were no other information on Internet or in town, there were no nothing about double exposure, experimental photography. I say, okay, why not to create the community and then we can just get together every week or so and just exchange and share opportunities and teach and learn what we have learned till now. And at that point, we create this community here that is on the base of the festival. Then I did this big project with photographers worldwide. I collaborated with the Smithsonian Institution for a project in Washington, not related with photography, but my PhD. And then I saw how a big festival can be organized worldwide. And then I say to the other director, the co director of the festival, Laura, Why? Why we are not starting a festival or a gathering or something that people can come to Barcelona. We know the city, we have friends, we know the places, we know how to organize a festival. She's a specialist also in graphic design and communication. And we say, okay, if we have the communication, we have the organization, we have all these communities of people wanting to come to Barcelona. Why not to organize at least a weekend or something for putting all these, at least 120 people together. to share and to see what they have learned or what they want to do, and then just get bigger and bigger and bigger. We don't know how, but that first year it was, it wasn't January 2020, but we organized all these on 2019. It was, before pandemics and three months before the festival, we just sold out the festival with 120 participants. worldwide. It was pretty crazy because we wanted to make it bigger and it was impossible because there were no, bigger places in Barcelona. Obviously this, everything was do it yourself. We don't have no money, not organization, nothing. And we just canceled the registrations because we don't have more space for more people. And then people just came here and it was really crazy. I mean, the first festival was amazing. And then as we love to say, it was the best festival of 2020 because as this was in January, it was the only one, you know,

Raymond Hatfield:

That's hilarious. That is so funny. I want to know, was the idea for this first festival? You know, you've talked a lot about the double exposures in this project. Was the idea to talk more about double exposures and go deeper into that? Or was it for you? Maybe, selfishly to explore all levels of experimental photography? Silence.

Pablo Giori:

years or so. And it was just a challenge. We really wanted to met them in person. That was kind of the first idea. We thought on doing a festival on double exposure, but it has no really, not a really long interest. And at that point we were working and we realized with this book, it's really interesting if you want to find it. it's called experimental photography handbook of technique, uh, 2017. with learning about this book, we realized that experimental photography, I mean, the double exposure was part of a big family of photography that is called experimental photography. And that was a moment when we realized that double exposure was something part of something bigger, that there were other communities, that there were other people doing crazy things with photography. And then we decided really to do, to work more on experimental photography and really to do the first festival. on experimental photography in the world. And that was crazy because we have people from pinhole. We have people from Polaroid, experimental Polaroid, digital photographers. I mean, it was, that was crazy because we have from the different communities. We have five, six, seven, eight, 10 people from each of them. And that was mainly the reason of the boom of the festival. Also, as you said, there were this mix of people from those that were doing photography in the nineties. 2000 at the beginning that they were kind of coming from analog. Also the new ones coming from digital and also these new community of people growing on, on social networks, you know, all these Lomographers, Polaroiders, and all those communities working online that they were, they had the opportunity to meet each other on internet because they were sharing on blogs and other things, but they have never, ever had the opportunity to meet. And the festival, I think, really found that perfect spot that people was looking for.

Raymond Hatfield:

one thing that I struggle with is that when it comes to learning photography, I try to stress the importance of, like, knowing what you're going after, right? Like, try to, try to have a vision of what you're going after. Of the end in mind so that you can have something to start working towards but oftentimes in experimental photography With these processes that you haven't tried before or even double exposures where you're giving up so much control Half the control to somebody else. How do you where's the like benefit like how do how to explain to me how how photographers benefit from uh, From going through a process like this. is it just a Is it more of an education to expand their mind of what's possible in photography? Uh, is it, is it all community? Is it all, um, Kind of help me, help me through this part. This is, this is one of the things that my mind always has a hard time wrapping around, but yet I love seeing the results so much, even though I could never know that this is what it's, what it's going to turn out to be.

Pablo Giori:

I think all the options that you have said are good. For example, having a community is really important. As you might imagine, experimental photographers are not so many in the world. I mean, there are really small communities all over the world, but that's one, two, three, four people. Having a bigger community, obviously, is really powerful for them. That is really important. The second aspect, as you have also said, is that photography is really a control process. I mean, people really want to control everything. You really need to have everything in mind. You really need to think photography before. there are some people that are tired of this kind of control. Also these kind of, when you go to the portfolio reviews and there are always people say, no, this is not good. This is not good. This is not photography. This is blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, this kind of canon. That is so, uh, strict, you know, people wants to relate with photography from a more, uh, playful style, you know, they want to fun to get fun also with photography. Obviously, if you are a professional photographer working for MoMA or all of these institutions of high standards. Obviously, you need to respect all these laws and you need to be part, but there are tons of other people that really wants to get experience of photography. That is much more powerful in the sense of experience. They really want to get experience with the image that is not through perfection is through playfulness and I think experimental photography goes with this other idea of doing photography. That you can really receive something that you are not able to think about it before. we always have this Edward Weston pre visualization. On experimental photography, we always talk about Jerry Welsman, article 1967. he was doing an exhibition on Eastman Kodak Museum. this text is called post visualization. Easy to find on internet if you look for Jerry Welsman post visualization. And what he's saying, he say, okay, good, we can think the image. We can capture the image with the camera, but we can also post visualize, visualize it. You know, we have the opportunity to recreate this image in the dark room. We can modify all what camera give us. This is just a capture of image, but then we can modify, we can intervene. We can tone our images. We can create collage. I mean, there are tons of things that we can do with the image that we can pre visualize. And what he's saying is in 1967, we need to recover all that part for photography and something that I'm always explaining with experimental photography, if you ask me what experimental photography is, I'm going to say that this is a complete photography from the first question. Do you want to take a picture with the camera or without the camera? There are tons of techniques, more than a hundred techniques that are cameraless photography. For example, cyanotypes. For doing cyanotype. You don't need a camera. You can just make a contact print. Or a photograph. That's the first decision. The second decision is you want to use this camera. You want to use another camera. You want to create your own camera like this one. This is a pinhole camera. Solarigraphic camera. I mean, which camera do you want to use? Do you want or I mean, this is handmade one. Do you want to use an industrial one or you want to use handmade camera? Do you want to use this film? Do you want to use this lens? Do you want to use this film? Because you can change films. You can do your own film. You can create, for example, with cyanotype, you can create a negative with cyanotype and create your own camera. Not all the films are industrial, they are also a big family of experimental photography link, uh, with the photosensitive materials that you are going to use. And then when you have a negative, then you can print. From the 19th century, we have more than 65 printing techniques, that you can use to print your negative, uh, Bandai Brown. As I say, cyanotype tons of them. I mean, in September, we are going to have a new webpage for the Agora with all the details of the techniques, but you can see more than 144 techniques of experimental photography. The most important is to understand all these steps where you can really make a creative decision. Then when you print, when you have your copy, you can intervene and you can modify it. You can burn it, folding, whatever you want. And then you can make it something digital. You can do. I mean, a lot of things with digital photography from that point on. What does it means when you do an industrial photography? This industry has taken a lot of decisions. You are going to previsualize your images. You are going to have this format because this film is cheaper and you are going to have the exact colors And this is this is this is all the decisions are made you may click and then you have a camera six by nine Print in a paper that is a regular one The industry has taken tons of decisions for you what we want to do with experimental photography and that's kind of the concept of total photography is recovering Your possibility of making decisions in all these different aspects. Obviously doing experimental photography, we leave the industry also to make a lot of decisions. If not, this is really tiring, you know, this is the deciding everything, but at least to have in your mind, all these possibilities of expression.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm at a loss. That's one of those things I think, I never really. Considered, you know, I think I look at photography like oh, we have the option to shoot 35 millimeter We have the option to shoot digital. We have the option to you know even do medium format if we wanted But those are the only options That we've been given Not necessarily all the options that are available and that is uh Wow, I had never really even considered that honestly That is something that I I want to explore more. then tell me, with all of these different, different types of experiments that we can, you know, perform on, on photography, you said there's more than 100 and 140 different, uh, options, you know, that we can, we can do, what is something right now that you see in experimental photography that is just, really exciting to you?

Pablo Giori:

for me, the most important is the, those kinds of projects that they mix a lot of photography with something else. I mean, something linked with science or mainly with science, uh, and technology. That's are the things that interest me the more, the most. Uh, when we talk about, for example, the second, digital revolution in experimental photography, the first one are those cameras. I mean, regular cameras that they just use lenses, but they are kind more do the same. But there are a lot of technology in digital that they can help you to show something that we are not able to see with our eyes. Uh, as, as you might know, at the end of the 19th century, Edward Muybridge and others, they create, this is a big debate with the photo finish. They create this image that was faster than our eyes. Even faster than the judges off a horse race, you know, and that was the first moment in the history that was at the end of the 19th century that photography was showing something really new, something that we were not able to see with our eyes. What happened on the second digital revolution in experimental photography is the moment when digital photography can show us something that we are not able to see with our eyes. Not with the digital regular camera, not with analog. and that is for example, I don't know if you know this, but they call, they are radars. Technically they are radars. This kind of radars is called lidar. Uh, la, radar. They can really make, it's kind of the rather that, uh, that the, um, fishing companies using to know exactly where the fishes are, but they can use it to see what are on earth. And you can use this rather really to recreate a 3d image of the reality, but seeing some seeing things that you are not able to get in. There is an amazing project when I learned about this technique is because his name is Jirak Jindal. He's an artist from, I think, New Zealand. And he was really making pictures, pictures. 3D pictures of caves, caves that are in, New Zealand that you're not able to see. He's using this rather really to see how the houses and cars are from inside and also what is underneath the earth on these caves that you are not able to see. Obviously, this is an image that is recreated with the digital information that then this technology can recreate. A 3D image of the reality that is exactly the same thing that we can see in the reality. But this, the good thing of these scanners, these radars, is that you can see inside of the stones, you know, and this is the moment when you can see something new, recreate as an image in the end with this, uh, digital information that you can have from a radar.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, let me ask then, what do you do with this information? Right? So somebody goes and takes a, a radar scan. of rocks, of houses, of a cave. What do we do with this? Does this just get printed in a traditional 16x9? Or like, what is, are we, am I thinking about a finished product incorrectly? What comes out of it?

Pablo Giori:

uh, is selling really expensive copies. I mean, really, really, really big copies of the images of these houses, these cars, and all the caves that are created and recreated on their stone underneath of the houses. I mean, you can see kind of the different levels of the houses and also what you can see underneath of the earth. And this was part of his research for his, uh, master's thesis. And he's an artist, uh, selling this kind of work of art everywhere. But these, these images are not created with the regular cameras. They are really created with a radar. And that is, for me, is crazy because that is a moment where really a digital technology can show us something that we are not able to see in any other way. this is really, that's why we call this moment a second revolution in digital.

Raymond Hatfield:

I see. Okay. Okay, that makes sense. okay, this new question just popped into my head then. cause I had never really thought of anything like that. Mm When it comes to, trying something new, right? Something experimental. Do you find that the, man, how do I even phrase this? Do you find that the idea comes from seeing the technology in your hand? In this case, like, oh, wow, I have this radar scanner. I wonder what I could do with it. Or does it come from, man, I'd really like to achieve this technique. I wonder what technology it would take to achieve something like this. Does that question make sense?

Pablo Giori:

Yes, I think there are two different approach. One is more the artistic one. People come that comes more from the art world. They normally see this new images and they say, Okay, I want to learn this technique. And they look for information. That's why we have the festival. We have Agora, also this school for teaching the techniques, but they mainly come more from an artistic point of view. But what you are asking, and I think that this is also Chirac's point of view, he comes more from a technological or from a research point of view. I mean, I come from geology, but I'm not happy with what I can see on the regular maps. I want to see this reality from a different point of view. I want to study more about radars and I want to see if I can adapt one of these radars to what I'm looking for on my artistic research. You know, this is kind of the mix. This is always happening on experimental photography that you want to see the reality in a different point of view. There is something in your head, in your mind that says, Okay, I'm good with my camera. I'm not going to say that I'm done with the camera, but I want to see something new. And at that point, people start looking for new things. For example, even printing techniques, as I say, cyanotype, for example, uh, you have been printing all your life in this kind of, two hours printing things that you can do in the supermarket. And then you say, no, I want to learn how to print my images because I don't want them to look so real. I want to be able to intervene them. And then you can start learning how to print and then how to modify all these printings. For example, uh, I mean, it can come from a really scientific approach because we have a researcher, for example, for NASA and she's working with light painting in Polaroid. She's Felicitas Russo. She's a crazy art, uh, uh, scientific. That in the end comes to art because the scientists just get crazy and in some point they want linked reality or something and they get closer to art. Or we have the other way around. I mean, we have people from art that they want to create things in another way and they get connected with experimental photography. They understand all these 144 techniques and they say, okay, as you said, this is crazy. I think that there is something that I can use from these technique or this experimentation for my work. Obviously, I want to use it for what I'm thinking to express myself, but I'm going to take this and this. And the best moment is when someone can really mix different techniques or different ideas to express, what they are thinking and they find different ways. That is something good about experimental photography. There are so many ways of expressing yourself. That is pretty easy to find, something new and something that you feel comfortable with creating.

Raymond Hatfield:

So then, would you say that it's possible because there's the, there's the two schools of thought here, and I'd love to get your, uh, opinion. Trying something new, it's, uh, it can be scary, right? There's a, there's a high, possibility of failure, uh, and not going your way. what do you do in those times of failure? and side question, is it even technically, would you consider it even technically a failure?

Pablo Giori:

two questions. The first one is, if you are in a bad times, that's life, get closer to friends,

Raymond Hatfield:

ha ha.

Pablo Giori:

your community. And that's why also we are working so hard with community because there might be someone in the community that might help you, in emotional point of view, but also on the technical point of view for you to stop, failing. So to say, this is the idea. The solution is the community. You are not going to arrive to the future of photography. That is the goal of experimental photography. Finding something new by yourself. Because you are not able to know everything. I mean, there are so many techniques. So many new research. So many history. It's impossible. You need to get together with other people. All those other people are going to help you. To have more information. To have more feedbacks. To receive new ideas. And also to have a community. to help you on these hard times? That's the first question. The second question is for us, there are never failures. For example, we are going to be doing this year at the festival, an exhibition about Fox Talbot. Oh, uh, I mean, or Weedwood, Weedwood was a guy doing, photography at the end of the 18th century. he was doing ephemeral photography because he was trying to fix. I mean, there are no fixed images, but they were doing the research to find a way to fix it. And Talbot, Daguerre, and others were able to fix the images on 1839, as you know. But the thing is that not being able to fix the image is not a problem because you are on the way of creating new images. You know, the ability of fixing the image, as we normally say, is something on the industry of photography because you want to conservate that image. But you don't really need it. To fix the image and to have this image forever. this is a problem of contemporary art. You can do art that is ephemeral, and that's good. That's, for example, anthotypes and chlorophyll printing that we print with plants. For example, this is ephemeral. There are no way to stop, the the sensitive condition of the material. And it might just get lost as an image. But we have a lot of experimental photographers working with those techniques Because it's really amazing that you're able to create the photography with the plant You know, even if it's ephemeral, that's why we never I mean with obviously You have the feeling that you have failed on what you are going through if you don't receive what you are working for But the idea of experimental photography is that you're in a process of creating things with others You have a goal and you are going that way. Maybe it's going to take you 10 years, but you are going to find it, you know, because if you really have a good idea, you have also to enjoy the process of creating these images and the exhibition that we are going to do for the first time in Barcelona. It's that idea that even Talbot that was really famous, he was all his life, he did in his archives, there are more than 50, 000 images. He was saving everything. He was doing tons of images every day. None of them were a failure because in some point he made click and he found something new and now he's on the history of photography. because all the research that he was doing was something really important for us. That's the thing. We need to convert this failure in part of the process of learning. And that's what the failure really is.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, of course, of course. I appreciate you sharing that, um, with an audience of new photographers, oftentimes I've found that we get these expectations. Of exactly what it is that we want to create, or you see something online and you go after it. And as you know, the first attempt, very rarely ever, is as successful as, you know, whoever this other person's hundredth attempt may be. So, uh, yeah, it's really important to, to, uh, To change that mindset of it's not a failure. You're just on that journey to, to getting better. So, I want to ask though, because, a lot of photographers who are listening may be brand new photographers in the sense of maybe they didn't shoot in the past, maybe they don't have, uh, an old film camera, maybe they still just have a digital camera. what is something that maybe they could do to get started in experimental photography? What's something that they can try, uh, and just dip their toes into? In it to see if it's something that they want to pursue more.

Pablo Giori:

I think the best is to get into our Instagram account. I mean, we are sharing works of people. We have more than 2000 posts over the last five years, and then you have the biggest amount of techniques that you can find in any other page on Instagram or in other other webpage that you want. I recommend them to check what they, what appeal to their eyes and their minds visually. That's kind of the first in love with experimental photography. See something that you like and then get into the description and you are going to find the technique or the concept or the idea or something that is going to connect to you. Because as I say, there are so many techniques that I am not able to tell you one, you know, because People are interested in different things. Uh, we have people interested in creating their own cameras. For example, uh, check, pinhole photography. If You are really into this kind of creating things, blah, blah, and you want to create your own camera, pretty easy. This is just a beer can. You can create your own beer can, go for pinhole photography. If you want to find a new way of printing your images, uh, you can find printing techniques of the 19th century. The easy one. is cyanotype. Uh, you can find that pretty easy. There are tons of tutorials on the internet. If you want to get deeper, obviously come to our school, but if you want to print, you have your negatives and you want to print them in a different way, start with cyanotype because it's pretty easy. it's not so contaminant as others. You don't need a dark room. You can do it at your home. Uh, you can just buy the kits that, people sharing worldwide, or you can just buy the chemistry in your regular, every big city has places to buy cyanotypes because are really, pretty, the chemistry is pretty easy to find. And then if you want to do something more related with modifying the printed images that you already have, I love collage, for example, or photo embroidery. You know, these people that are just, embroidering.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, yeah,

Pablo Giori:

Photographies, uh, these are two pretty easy kind of, of, interventions in photography that are really, really good. I also like, and I have done, uh, this technique is called photo soup. Uh, you can put your print images in water, uh, with some chemistry. For example, just a washing soda or, uh, washing the cleaning thing that you use for cleaning your. Your basal or your wash or your clothes, you know, this kind of powders or this chemistry that you know that they are pretty toxic but not so much just Try to put your images down there for a couple of hours You're printing images digital or whatever and just give it a couple of days Just every day take it out and see what happens This chemistry is going to start modifying the emulsion You And I think crazy things are going to happen. This is an intervention, called Photosoup. Let's try that. You know, that can be a really good thing to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Just so that I'm clear, we're taking our print, like the actual print itself, not the negative or anything like that, but the actual printed photo, and then we're putting that in the chemistry here, some dish soap or something like that.

Pablo Giori:

Yes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Interesting, okay. And this is like a several day process, several weeks?

Pablo Giori:

Depending on the chemistry that you use and also about the printing, because it's not the same if you use an industrial print that has a plastic on it, that you might first destroy the plastic. This might take longer. It depends also if it's winter or summer, because also the temperature is going to modify the possibility of really the chemistry to influence if you really make it in your dark room, a black and white copy, it might be really fast because the plate and all the chemistry is there because you're not having any film with any film or any other thing that prevent it. To get in contact with the chemistry that might be faster, but that is something that you can do with your copies with your family album. Obviously, don't use the ones that you like the most. Always is better to make a different copy, obviously, for trying this kind of interventions, but you can just try. I mean, I have just give you three different techniques, experimental techniques, one based on creating your own camera. If you're more into cameras, another one on the printing your negatives with China type. Or modifying your printing copies, if you want, just to tell you three fast ones. You can do whatever you want. I mean, you don't need money. You don't need the dark room. Even just having a pretty easy thing with chemistry, even Coca Cola. For example, we have a guy, he's amazing, intervening, Polaroids. It's a party polaroid, polaroids that you're taking parties with different sodas. For example, Fanta, Sprite, Coca Cola, and he's just putting the polaroids in there to intervene them and seeing what happened, how the chemistry of these sodas are modifying the images. That's crazy. You go to a party, you bring a Coca Cola, you make pictures, and then you put your pictures in there. On coca cola a week and let's see how it goes, you know

Raymond Hatfield:

I, uh, I have a number of instant photos that I've taken that I might go ahead and try that after this. Go, go put, I gotta go go to the store and get some Coke and, uh, and put it in there. We'll see what happens. That sounds like

Pablo Giori:

Sure, at least those images that you say i'm not going to do nothing with this because it move It's not i'm not going to save it. Just try something new with that You know, let's see you can learn a lot of things

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm. let me ask you, this will be my last question here for you. W what are, how are you experimenting in photography right now?

Pablo Giori:

Myself i'm experimenting in creating a big community worldwide During a festival

Raymond Hatfield:

come on. I'm definitely gonna, uh, uh, ask you more about the festival here in a moment, but I want to know, like, what techniques are you trying? What, uh, what are you doing with your images? Uh, what's just exciting you, to, to pick up your camera and shoot.

Pablo Giori:

I mean, uh, I have a big archive. I'm working mainly with my archive, but for example, I'm, I mean, I'm using all my possibilities of learning. I don't have so much time to get into the details with things, but as I'm organizing the festival, we have a lot of opportunities and I'm trying to use them. For example, two weeks ago, uh, we were in Madrid, uh, doing a workshop on Uh, uh, we did ceramics, uh, we did stone, and we did kind of a classical. And this was, a print that I did of, a portrait in ceramics with a cyanotype. And this is my last kind of learning, uh, research on experimental photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

So that's a print right there. So you printed an image onto a ceramic tile using, uh, the Sienna type technique. That is very cool. That is cool. Yeah, that might be interesting, uh, So we, we just recently refloored our house, but now I'm thinking like, Oh, how cool would that be to, obviously this could take years, but, uh, make a collection of Sienna types on tiles and then like tile a bathroom of all of your family photos. And then you could never sell that house. Because nobody would vibe to that. But it would still be, yeah, it would still be amazing. That is very cool. Well, Paula, thank you. Thank you for sharing that with me. as we come to the end here, I want you to tell me a little bit more about the school. I know people are going to be interested. Where can we learn more? Where can we find it online? and tell me what, uh, what, what you know.

Pablo Giori:

Sure. Uh, we have the school and we have the festival. The festival is this summer. the school we started, four years ago because with pandemics, uh, we had a big community. We had more than 40, 000 followers worldwide, but they were not able to travel to Barcelona. And then we decided to do the online festival that we are going to be also doing this year. we have 18 conferences, uh, that you can see streaming online worldwide. And then we have five workshops, special workshops for the online festival, uh, that you can also join. That means that you have a week of conferences and every evening. You have a workshop. If you want to join the festival, I think it's a hundred euros or 120. You have five days of conferences on five workshops. You can learn five different techniques, transfer of photography, uh, light painting interventions in negatives. Uh, and I'm missing two more that my mind is not so clear now to remember, but I mean,

Raymond Hatfield:

notes.

Pablo Giori:

yes, in a week you can learn all the techniques. That's great. As we have been doing this festival over the last four years online. Also, we decided to create a school because we have the feeling that people was. Eager to learn during the full year not just in barcelona where they come here But also at home on winter and that's the thing because the festival is working really really good in summer In barcelona as you can imagine beach blah blah having fun But people really want to learn in winter mainly when you're at home when you have more time Also, with more academic, time and interest, and that's why we focus our school from September to May. That means that we are closing now the school. We really closed it yesterday with our last, uh, class face to face class online, but live class. And then we're starting again in September. That means that if you want to join any of our classes, uh, we are having a diploma on experimental photography. That means that. In one year, you can really have a diploma on experimental photography and have a title, showing that you know, uh, the techniques and everything, or you can join. For example, we have the techniques, curse. There are three ones, uh, exploring intermediate and advanced, techniques that I think is for 200 euros or so you have six months of classes every week, a new technique. That means that in six months, you are going to learn 48, 38 or 48 techniques. that's amazing. Or if you have already have a, project, you can join the mentorship class that I'm giving every week from September. We have a history theories and debates on experimental photography that is more focused on the history and the debates and the theories on experimental photography. You, if you are more on the academic side, that's more or less the school. I mean, you have the opportunity to learn. They're pretty recorded six months. You can make the diploma. We have a specialization in creative photography, uh, digital photography, some printing techniques. And then this year we are also going to have four, uh, master classes that we call them, that you are going to be able to learn, uh, live online with different artists, from all over the world. Uh, the typical black and white darkroom photography and printing developing and printing. Uh, we are going to have more than sash with Ella Morton, uh, gone by chromate with another, and also see a type, and another technique also with another. She's also a professor at Penumbra foundation, uh, the Harvard university. She's going to be teaching with us. that means that you can do long, short, pre recorded live on the way that you want to learn experimental photography. For sure, you are going to have to find your opportunity on our new webpage that is going to be there for sure in July or in September. We're going to present for sure all our new experimental photography classes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Where's the best place to get updates?

Pablo Giori:

on our webpage, on our Instagram account, just follow us. If not, send us an email. We can follow. Uh, if you go there on a webpage, you can follow, the newsletter that we have. We are then sending 15,000 emails every month, uh, with information for sure. You are going to find there all the information about the online festival, the school and everything.