The Beginner Photography Podcast

The Art of Selling Your Photography to Big Brands with Nate Crawford

• Raymond Hatfield

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#475 In this episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast, I chat with Nate Crawford, a vibrant food photographer who turned his passion into a thriving career. Nate outlines the essence of connecting with brands, stressing the importance of a strong portfolio and personalized follow-ups. He also delves into the technicalities and emotional aspects of food photography, sharing invaluable tips on capturing images that resonate with warmth and authenticity. As you listen, I encourage you to apply Nate's lessons by experimenting with different settings on your camera, prioritizing the story behind each photo, and refining your approach to engaging with potential clients. Always remember, each shot is a step towards mastery.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Embrace Persistent Selling: Consistently following up with potential clients can dramatically increase your success rate. Persistence pays off in this competitive field.
  • Respect and Professionalism: Ensuring your interactions with brands are respectful and professional can make or break future opportunities. Your reputation precedes you.
  • Harness the Power of Storytelling in Food Photography: Your images should tell a story, more than just showcasing a dish, they should evoke emotions and tell tales.
  • Understand the Impact of Equipment Mastery: Learning the technical nuances of your camera elevates your ability to capture compelling images. Know your tools intimately.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  • Master Lighting Basics: Begin by observing the natural light during different times of the day and notice how it affects the mood and texture of your photos. Use a simple reflector (even a piece of white cardboard) to manipulate light and fill in shadows when shooting under harsh sunlight.
  • Practice Food Photography: Set up a mini home studio with a basic backdrop (a large sheet or plain wall) and natural light from a nearby window. Style your food using simple props like utensils or raw ingredients to add authenticity and appeal to your shots.
  • Develop a Portfolio: Start gathering your best work in a digital portfolio that can be easily shared or updated. Focus on including varied subjects and styles to show your versatility and ability to handle different photography challenges.
  • Engage with Other Photographers: Join local or online photography groups to connect with peers. Participate in discussions, ask for feedback on your work, and attend group shoots or workshops to expand your network and skills.
  • Embrace the Business Side: Educate yourself on basic business practices relevant to photography like drafting contracts, setting pricing strategies, and managing client relationships. Consider attending a workshop or taking an online course focused on photography as a business to ensure you’re well-prepared to monetize your passion.

Resources:

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Nate Crawford:

If you don't change anything, you're not really growing as an artist, right? and so I think as I look back at those old images, it's like, oh man, the lighting is just horrible. Or how it's composed is just so weird. Or how I color graded the images are just like really odd. and so I think like in those first few years, it's me starting to understand photos and how it interacts with food, but also what my overall style wanted to be, right.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we are talking with food and branding photographer Nate Crawford, about capturing images everyone can understand. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Clouds Spot everything you need to build a thriving photography business, impress your clients, deliver professional experience, and streamline your workflow in one platform. Grab your free forever account today over@deliveredphotos.com and only upgrade when you and your business are ready. Now in today's episode with Nate, you're gonna learn three things. The first is understanding your tool. Nate shares the importance of mastering your camera's settings specifically to adapt to various lighting conditions, which will develop your technical understanding. Two, you're gonna learn how to build relationships with brands. You'll learn the nuances of selling your style to brands and how persistence and alignment with a brand's values can better lead to successful partnerships. And three, you're gonna learn the emotional power of images. Lastly, we talk about how adding emotion and narrative to your photos, even if it's just food, can transform a simple shot into a compelling story that resonates with viewers. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview. Nate, I wanna know, just easy first question here, like, when did you know the photography was gonna first play an important role in your life?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, absolutely. So I didn't know. So I got like into the industry young, but also old I feel like. So I was. 18. When I first started the food, the food photo sort of journey. And it wasn't really, I knew pretty early on that I really loved it. 'cause I really love, loved, to bake to cook and the food side, and being able to show that process of like taking flour, salt, eggs. Doing some something amazing with that and turning it into something delicious, really inspired me. And being able to shoot that process was just a whole other world to me of like, oh my God, that's possible. That's so cool. You're able to take, a moment within this culinary journey and stop time and that's so fun. And so I would say probably, oh man, like a few months into my learning to take images. I was like, Ooh, I could do this forever as a career. And that was the goal. So,

Raymond Hatfield:

but I wanna know, like, so obviously you were baking, you loved to bake. Like, what made you think, you know what, I should really take a photo of this, and then what about that grew into, I'm gonna use more than just a cell phone, which a lot of people are okay with, but like, I'm gonna do this professionally.

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it was like when I was learning to cook and make, that I would make food and share it with friends and family. Right? Of course. That everyone does. But I wanted a way of sharing the food that I made with friends, with friends and family who weren't close. Right. like family in other states, whatever. And I just grab my iPhone and just snapped a few pics of some, cookies I made. And that was the first image I ever took. And there was just something about like composing the image, seeing them on the table there like, the image itself is horrible, but it's an image that I truly love because it's really the first moment of like, Ooh, I could do this. Like, this is really interesting. There's something there, right? And so, yeah, so just like seeing, seeing that moment just be like, frozen in time, which is so unique to me. And so just like, how is that possible? It's so cool. so yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Looking back at that photo, now that you have the experience that you have today, what do you think it was about that? iPhone photo that really stood out to you and I don't know, made something click in your brain.

Nate Crawford:

I don't know. I think it was just like there was something there and I don't know, like if it was just the art of composing of the image and placing the cookies down, the styling like aspect or what was it? But it was just something about the whole like emotion behind it of like, oh, I'm gonna style this, I'm gonna take this image. And at the time I didn't really know where it would take me into being here, but, and so it's a wild from point to point, point Z is a wild journey of times I didn't expect. Expected to happen for sure. But there was just something there within that space of like, okay, I just like truly just a feeling of like, oh, I like this, and like this process is fun to me, of taking items that I have made, shooting them, and then sharing them. That whole like three step process really, really inspired me.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love how you said the word emotion there because it's funny, it's, I don't think that's something that people traditionally think of when they look at food photography. I think maybe more when you think of, like portraits. but when I look at your work, I feel the same way. But thank you. Before we get into the emotional side of things, I wanna stick here with photography and learning photography. Mm-hmm. you said you took that first photo with the iPhone. At some point you had to upgrade to, a traditional DSLR or a dedicated camera. What was that learning curve like?

Nate Crawford:

Oh, sure. The learning curve was really interesting. So I went from the iPhone to a Canon Power shot, which is just a plain shoot camera, very like, bottom tier of entry. Right. But like the camera's really nice 'cause you, you're able to still like change your ISO. Your f stop your shutter speed, but like, you obviously can't, change like any of the lenses. Right. but it was a good camera to start out with. So I was able to learn, what shooting and raw meant, what, what changing the ISO did, what change in the sh shutter speed did. When it comes to, food images and I shot with the power shot for probably a year or so. And then I knew, I was at a point where I was like, okay, this canvas camera's really good for starting, but I need to do more. I need more options of lenses. I need more options of like, just quality of image. And so I, I graded to the T five I, which I shot with for probably, I. Two or so years after that, really enjoyed that, camera. Like it's just such a powerhouse tool. the TI series is just like fantastic. anytime I have folks asking me like, oh, is camera should I start out with, and I'm learning all this stuff. I really lean on that series because it's such a fantastic entry level camera. like it just has everything you need. when like you're learning the art form. so really loved that. I saw with that all through college. And then after college I wanted to upgrade again. 'cause I was seeing that the camera, like the more I was shooting like higher brands or like lifestyle work, it was just not. There. Yeah. and so I have Google graded to the 60. Really enjoyed that. And Shaw with that for probably like the next three or so, so years after that for sure. And then this last year, I have Google graded to the R five. So oh, team probably what I said. Welcome to team. I, you know what? I didn't think I would fall as hard for it, but I love it. It's kind of insane. The quality jump from, going from like the six D to the R five, just like the quality of image that you're able to get. It's, it's amazing. Canon glass is just fantastic. And they have just like, nailed this camera. Well, the R series as a whole, the R six, like, like all this fantastic.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you had the power shot camera, right? Mm-hmm. And you had mentioned it helped you learn things like, with shooting a ramen, how to change your ISO mm-hmm. As somebody coming from an iPhone, like where do these terms come into your ecosystem, especially with something that's more of a just a point and shoot like a power shot. I guess what I'm asking here is that like many people today buy an R five or an R six, top line camera and still only shoot an auto and here you are, with essentially an entry level camera and you decided to dig real deep. So I want to know where, where did that drive come from? Like were you actively learning or trying to figure out how to take better photos?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, I think it stems from honestly, a need of controlling from like the sense of I wanna control over all my art, where I wanted a full understanding of the tool I was using in this, and how I was shooting it. Right. And I think, there's artists out there who use Amatic, who, who take amazing images. Right? But I think for what I was trying to do and how I wanted to learn photos, I knew that I. Learning the confines of your ISO, your f-stop, your sh shutter speed, and how those three worlds interact and play and change each other was really imperative because not every lighting location is gonna be the same, right? And so really understanding the tool that you're using in my mind was really important.

Raymond Hatfield:

So obviously like the learning, the photography part is, as you said, really important to you figuring out ISO shutter speed aperture and how all these things work together. Was there anything within that, learning curve that was particularly difficult for you to grasp or understand?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah. You know, I think one of the hardest things to sort of understand and learn is how I. Lighting or how lighting and those like play, interact, right. You know? So understanding if I put my light source here, if I stand here, I. What settings do I need in order to get a well balanced image? Right? And I think there are, there's awesome resources and classes and online things to learn all that, but honestly, it's really just trial and error, right? How I learned was just. Doing it, seeing the image and being like, oh, well that's an great image. Well, why is that? Well, let's change this. Let's add this, let's do other things. I think so much of our art form is literally just doing it and seeing and seeing if it works, frankly, and like, okay, well that did not work, so here's why and let's find out and then change that. Right. For sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is such a great point there. I feel exactly the same. It's like for me. I definitely learn best by doing, right? Like when it comes to reading or even like watching YouTube videos, like it doesn't matter how good they are. Mm-hmm. If I don't actually do the thing, I don't think I'm gonna retain any of that information. I don't think I'm gonna learn any of that. Is that pretty similar to you?

Nate Crawford:

I would say so. Sure. because I think those channels and those, uh, resources are excellent to have, right? Mm-hmm. Like they're really great. But if you don't implement that, that info is just like, well, what's the point? Why did you do this? Right? Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. What's the point? I love that. I wanna know now, do you know about how long it's been since you took that first iPhone photo of those cookies?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, so I took that photo back in. in June of 2014. Okay,

Raymond Hatfield:

So it's been a number of years, right? A number of years. Mm-hmm. In this time, in this experience that you've gathered over these years, right? You've really dedicated, a lot of resources in your time and you know who it is, who you are to becoming a photographer and taking the best photos possible. And today, just by looking at your images, I mean, I'm not a food photographer, but just by looking at your images, I think world class right here, right? Fantastic Images over that time. I want you to think back to some of those earliest photos when you first got that power shot, right? Were there any particular elements that stood out to you as like, now looking back as, like, oh, this is an amateur mistake, this is an amateur photo right here for something that you would do totally different today? Oh, absolutely. 100%.

Nate Crawford:

A hundred percent. I'm. Ironically enough, uh, this last month that I was, about cleaning my laptop and hard and a hard drive, I came across a hard drive from like years back, with all these images from like my first few years shooting. And I was just like, Ooh, yes. Perfect. And you look back and I think as artists, if we don't look back, back on images we took 10 years back a year ago, then we're not really learning. We're not really growing. If we don't look, look and see like, oh, well, I would've changed, changed this. I would've styled this like, like this. And if you don't change anything, you're not really growing as an artist, right? And so I think as I look back at those old images, it's like, oh man, the lighting is just horrible. Or how it's composed is just so weird. Or how I color graded the images are just like really odd or there's like a number of mistakes. Clear, like clear obvious mistakes of like, I think me trying to learn photos, but also learn a style that I really enjoyed and a style that may, Me really enjoy, enjoy the process. And so I think like in those first few years, it's me starting to understand photos and how it interacts with food, but also what my overall style wanted to be, right? Because like I would see images on Instagram be like, Ooh, I wanna do that. Then go and shoot something and it would just, not just like not match up. Right. 'cause of those images from what I'm seeing and how I'm shooting, are just, the quality isn't there yet. The but the understanding education are not there yet. Right. I.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I think, a few years ago I had on a, uh, photographer his name is Mark Silber, and he said that that difference between seeing a photo that you like and that you want to capture and the photo that you actually capture is called the creative gap, right? Oh, yeah. So as time goes on, all we can do is try to close that creative gap. So were you taking the same approach of, looking at your images after a shoot and thinking this didn't work well, or this did work well, here's what I can change next time. I.

Nate Crawford:

I think at sometimes I would shoot things and be like, oh, that was not it. And other times I feel like I would just be so like delusional, like, oh, this is the best thing I've ever done. Like I made a today. And as I say back, it's like, oh, this is awful. Like, like there's so many technical issues in these images. But I think that's sort of the beauty of our. Of our art form is that you are always learning and like you're always seeing a path. And I think for every photo I've ever done, I've learned new things on those shoots. And so, so as I grow and as I shoot even more, even now today, I, I'm still learning. I'm still learning new things and new styles, new processes, and I think that's what makes this, this industry so exciting, right.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you have one shoot that stands out to you? Maybe as like you thought in the moment, like killed it made art today, and then now that you look back it's almost like, Ugh, I wish I didn't shoot that. Oh man. I've got a few of those, which is why I always gotta ask

Nate Crawford:

it. It is tough because I don't think I ever really like cringe or be like, I wish I didn't do that 'cause I sort of believe that like every photo is for a reason and you take stuff in order to learn. I think there's shoes I've done and styles I've taken, which now. My style so evolved that they don't really match anymore. And so it's like, hmm, this doesn't really work well with my approach to understanding of, lighting, composing an image, food, styling, all that. I. But I think there is like one shoot where I did, where I was start starting act like actually to do like food, like lifestyle images, where there was like talent involved. Then that shoot was a product, all this food. And so I spent the entire day like prepping a whole meal. we took, we took, we took all the food out too. Oh, this one, this one park. And we had like a table there. We set everything up. We did all the photos. Talend showed up. They ate everything. They left. I remember calling my parents at the time and they being like, I know what I wanna do in life? I wanna do exactly this. Because there's just something about creating that moment in time that isn't real, but feels real. The balance of like, warmness of like community. 'cause like that style of shooting to me really encapsulates everything I love, I love about food. It's the community aspect, it's the, the sharing aspect. It's the, food is kind of a language where everyone can speak it and like you don't need context in order to understand it. Right? And those elements are all in those images. And so I feel like that was really the moment where I knew like, okay, I really wanna take this to other pro tier and like a full-time tier. Like I can do this job forever.

Raymond Hatfield:

Can I ask what you went to college for? I.

Nate Crawford:

So I went to school for hospitality management, which isn't anything clo close to photos. But why? You know, and so when I was in college, I worked in like hotels events and I love the industry. There's something about the industry that I just like really enjoy. There's issues within the industry that I had issues with. Why I left, the industry. But you know, there's something very special within the hospitality industry that I love. Even now, I think you're able to make a moment out of anything, right? And make a guest day. Any moment. Right? But I think there's something very powerful in that. And so I, I feel like that sort of energy is what I bring into my photos where it's less about, here's a play that played a pasta, but here is a narrative we're trying to tell, and here's a feeling we're trying to invoke, and here's this hospitality energy that we're trying to convey throughout all of our images. Right? And so I feel like that's sort of where my grounding and arc comes from, is that sort of need of hospitality, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow, that got a lot deeper than I was expecting right there. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I love that. Well, the question that I was gonna ask after that was, a lot of people go to college for, something, and then at a later point they want to pursue photography, but kind of feel like they're like, oh, I already spent all this time, I already invested all this money on this thing. Yeah. But now I wanna go this way. But I love what you said there about like, no, you know what? I'm still taking a lot of the things that I learned a lot of those lessons and then still applying it to, to this new thing here being, being photography and as I said earlier, like when I look at your images, and I emailed this to you, it's like, I feel joyous, right? Like, I can't think of a time. I guess if I were to have to explain food photography, I don't think joyous would be a word that I would use. And yet consistently all across the board on your images. And I, I want to know, like, was this intentional, did you kind of plan that artistic side of things or was this more organic in the way that you shoot? So could you expand a little bit more on that, that hospitality idea and how you use your settings to achieve that, that goal.

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think with food we have such, such opportunity to sort of cra a moment, right? So how I've always approached photos with food is how I approach my own food as I cook, right? Because I come from a long line of, incredible home cooks where they would host these big parties and have family and friends over and holidays and like, food in my family is such an important capstone within our like family ethos. Right. So many holidays, events, trips we take, it's all about food. And so my sort of approach to that is from a hospitality standpoint of we're trying to make food in order to serve it right. Serve guests, brands, what have you. And I think that sort of element of hospitality within our food. seeps in through our photos and sort of highlights that feeling. 'Cause I really feel like food without any sort of emotion behind food. It's just food, right? That like it's just a plate of something. There's nothing really there. And so I think in order to really amp up the party. You have to really bring in that, that element of like joy, emotion that you feel seeing this food. Because ultimately food is so much fun. Like, I find so much joy in just like shooting food and chatting about food, eating food, like going to places to eat food and like see food. Like I just enjoy that process. And so anything about food I'm interested in. And I wanna highlight that within my work. And so I think like that joy and that passion for this food community is found throughout all of our work. Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So let's expand on that just a little bit because you said food without emotion is just food. Mm-hmm. So it's figuring out how to bring in those elements that feel warm and inviting and, exciting and, and the joyous there. What was the last shoot that you did? Like, what type of food was it?

Nate Crawford:

So really the brand was, they're like a protein-based, like plant-based, meat product.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's a perfect example because there's absolutely no emotion in, plant-based protein. What are those elements that you're referring to, to bring in that life and that joy and that hospitality feel into those images?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah. So I think with those images, I think it was more of just like trying to, to find out like what feels homey. And I try and like, like if our audience here for these images is a home cook audience, trying to make the scenes feel homey and like lived in, right? And so my approach is always like, okay, what elements are we able to bring in here that make these images feel real, right? And so that's putting plates down that, that like have food already on them, if that's like scattering berries, whatever, parsley around, the scene to help like bring some texture. If that's adding any other, like props elements to help tell that food story, you want to add those because it's really going to elevate that sort of raw narrative that you have there. Because like there's plenty of food images out there that are just white, white table, white plate, the food, if that's it, and that's fine. And that can be compelling and beautiful, but a lot of the time you look at those and you're like, okay, that's food, that's fun. But like the one, I think the folks who do food really well, they're able to sort of take a plate and make a feeling out of it. Like the arc that I really love food, food wise. I see. I see their images just, and I feel something as I see them, like, for you it's joy, but me, it's like. It's like, oh, I feel inspired, I feel hungry. I feel something else than just like, here is a plate. It's like, okay, well that's kind of dull and not very interesting. But I think you're able to bring in that element, that human element I think is really important.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think you said something there that is gonna get lost on a lot of people and it was thinking about the audience and what feels like and how to achieve what you want. Mm-hmm. Through that audience. So obviously for them it's that home cook. So what does it feel like to be at home making your own food? What does that look like? And I don't think that's something that many of us would even consider. if I were to go to a nice restaurant and just have this beautiful plate of food given to me, I would take a photo of that. I don't think that I would rearrange anything on the table and for you to actually have to think like, are we going to use blueberries? Are we gonna use tomatoes, like whatever it is here. I think that's really interesting. That's really important. So food styling is obviously a big part of, of your job, right? Or at least in the beginning? It is. Can you tell me how that works for you today? Are you still doing the food styling or is that a separate position that somebody has?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, absolutely. So really, so I would say like in food photos, food styling is like hand in hand. You really can take a really good food image without a really good food style. And there's moments where like, it's only me, so I'm styling the scene and shooting the scene. If it's, we're shooting for like client a brand, they, I'll bring in a stylist to help me just like style up our scenes, make sure everything looks right. And so it really depends, but I would say probably nowadays I'm bringing in more food style stylists than me actually shooting it because like at the scale in which I am shooting, we're. I really should only be shooting, I shouldn't be doing other stuff. I should just be doing this. And so, so I bring in the expert to help me. But I think, if your goal is to start shooting food, understanding standing the confines of food is really important and understanding how, how food works, right? So how how things saute, how things cook up, how things bake in the oven. You know, understanding, just like, the sim simplicity of how food science work is also important. So I would say like, I. Food, photos, styling, and food science. Those kind of all play within this industry.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right. I'm gonna grab from your experience here then, and next time I go out to, a local restaurant. There's a restaurant here in Indy called, uh, milk Tooth, and which is the craziest name for a restaurant Go out. I've

Nate Crawford:

never been.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh my gosh. So,

Nate Crawford:

so I wanted to go, so when we were in Indie, so a side note here. So when, my partner and I were at Indie last year, I. we wanted to go twice and meet is being like, I'll just show up. It'll be fine. Like, it won't be bad. I think we showed up on Saturday morning. a two hour wait, like, yeah. Okay. That's perfect. I'll come back on Sunday. It'll be easier. Show up again. Two hour wait. And like there, you can't like call in and say, Hey, I will wanna reserve you. Just show up. And I didn't know this and so I'm like, okay, well that won't work. So I haven't been, but I wanna go

Raymond Hatfield:

so badly. So then let me ask you next. When you do get to go, right, you're not bringing the fancy camera, you're just bringing your iPhone, you get the food. What are you doing with the camera? What are you doing with the stuff around you to ensure that that photo really has an impact?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah. You know, I think whenever you're shooting in a restaurant space, I think it's really important to find the best lighting. And so if my intent is to shoot the food of like asking to sit near a window where you're gonna get the most amount of like daylight. Right. 'cause a lot of the time, like in these play, like in these smooth bases, the overhead lighting, the lighting, the ambient lighting is garbage. It's awful. And there's really no, no way to really bring out the food anymore with that style of lighting. There's foes I know who like bring in their own like hand like handheld, it's like, it's like a square little box, box light that they'll like hold up behind the food, near like the food. And like, so if they're in like a dark space, they're still able to like film and shoes without like, wow. Really high as so it's wild. But I don't typically do that. 'cause I feel like when I'm out to eat dining. I'm just so enthralled by like the food process. I really don't take photos that often. And even if I do, they're mostly snapshots for like my stories on Instagram, frankly. Yeah. Um, there's really ever, I'm shooting, I'm like, oh, like in feed posts would look ama amazing, but just more of like Instagram stories.

Raymond Hatfield:

But I mean, do you take any additional measures just to make sure that even though it's just going on Instagram stories, maybe you'll move the salt shaker a little closer or change the fork or something to for sure. Get the most it

Nate Crawford:

spacing For sure. I feel like so much of like the table scapes is all about spacing and how we space things and which props we're adding. And, and so like, there others been times where we're out to brunch and I'm like, wait everyone, I want a photo. And we all like, style our little plates and style, our scenes. and then we snap and then we eat. Some moments like that for sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

Beautiful. Okay. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who does stuff like that. Oh,

Nate Crawford:

yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

I wanna transition now a little bit into the business side of things because, I think Instagram brought rise to the, everybody can take a photo of their lunch with their iPhone, but as a business, you take it to that next level and you have to worry about things like getting paid and making money and things like this. Mm-hmm. I also think that a lot of, new photographers are very unaware to the whole B2B space for business to business. Oh yeah. Can you walk me through how the process of pitching yourself to another business works? Sure, yeah, absolutely.

Nate Crawford:

ironically about me is that like, even though I do love photos, I love the shoot days, I love editing. I love all of it. The one aspect that I could do forever is like the selling process. Like finding brands, having calls, selling my myself. Our value to brands and then having them sign, like having a brand having a pitch and having them sign like it's such a feeling. You're like, yes, euphoria. Like, there's no other feeling like that, you know, it almost feels like a win, right? And so I think sell, selling you yourself to two brands is challenging. There's colleagues of mine who share o like over and over over again of how, challenging it is to like approach brands and sell yourself, and have obvious calls. And I think my sort of approach to it is like, the worst I'll say is no, there is no harm in emailing a person, sending a, a DM on Instagram saying, hi, I'm so and so. Here's my work here's the value I'm able to bring, bring you habit WeChat. There's no harm in that. And I think aligning yourself with brands that match your style and your goals and your ethics are really important too. and it can be challenging. I think what folks don't realize is that in order to get into this industry, it's so much of that process of like cold selling. It's so much of just trying to break into an industry that's challenging, that there, there's many large brands who have their own guys who do their own photos, or they're the third party ad agencies who have their own contacts. So like, it really is just like, throw, throw, throwing darts and hoping stuff sticks.

Raymond Hatfield:

For sure. what's the key? Is it just consistency?

Nate Crawford:

I think like, it's number of things. I think it's both having a really strong base of work, right? Like having a strong portfolio of work, work saying here like, here's our work I've done for other brands. Here's what value I'm able to bring you. It's that, it's literally just emailing them. There's so many folks who I feel like just stop before they even start. Because they just don't email the folks, the folks or don't like, take like the time to connect with, with brands and like build those, shun ships. It's just like there has to be that sort of drive, drive in order to help that. Right. It is challenging for sure. I mean, like, like it can be a lot. You are trying to pitch brands. I know when I was starting out, like I would call cold email brand brands with like paragraphs long of, I. just stuff. Just like of who I was, where I was at, why I love their brand, why I love, love photos. Like just like paragraphs along and why anyone even responded to me was wild to me. But they did. And starting that and learning that process and like learning that sort of like sales, the sales hat on and being like, no, like my work is good enough, enough in order to sell to you people. And if they say no, they say, Hey, we're not interested. We don't have enough funds, we don't have enough time. Okay. Whatever. And just being like, okay, awesome. We'll all be in touch. like soon if you're interested. If not, then bye. have to just move on from that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well, I think a lot of people, Maybe aren't as, in love with the selling process as you, right? Mm-hmm. So. I feel like, oftentimes for myself, I question how much follow up I should have, right? Mm-hmm. So you said that these are some big brands, right? Sometimes you reach out to people and you have to try to form a relationship. Mm-hmm. Do you have a follow up process for, if they don't respond the first, do you respond once, do you follow up 10, 20 times. Like what is that like?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah. So I love

Raymond Hatfield:

this,

Nate Crawford:

because follow up game is what will make, would make or break you in this industry. I cannot tell you the number of brands that I have had signed, who I followed up with three or four, four times. And after the fourth email, they're like, oh, sorry, we had issues, or we had this, or whatever. There's a reason. Right? And so they're like, you know, and so I think there's no harm in following up. I was gonna say, like my strategy is, and my sort of approach is I will stop until they tell me to stop. Right? so I'm not emailing them every day. That's insane. But like I will send out an email. Wait a week, if there's no response, I'll fall the low up there and I kind of have like a three strike rule where I'm like, okay, well if I followed up three times, then no answer Then like, it's obvious that you're, you're not interested for any reason you're, you are just not, not like, interested. And so I'm like, okay, well thank you for your time, but it's obvious you're not interested. Goodbye. and that's the email I end on. And it literally, it's just, you know, so I have a spreadsheet of the brands who I'm trying to pitch to. Or brands who have emailed me a asking me for for work, and I have a little tally of like, okay, well I followed up on this date here, first time, third time, whatever. And if I hit a hit that third time, it's over. It's like, okay, goodbye. because I just don't have the time to keep queuing up emails to you if you're not interested.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I think that makes sense. This is just kind of a side question. When it comes to the follow up, say those emails that you sent back, right? Those follow up emails mm-hmm. Are those more like canned responses or are those pretty personalized for the brand?

Nate Crawford:

It depends on what stage we're at. Like, we're at a stage where there. They're signing the contract's already been sent out. Those emails are a little bit more like personalized and like, Hey, like if you will wanna do a call and I can answer anything. It's more of those emails. If it's a brand who emailed me through through our site and we haven't had any call and they're just interested solely in price. It is a stock email I sent, but you know, there's times where I don't have time to send emails to everyone that's like, hello, how are you? It's literally just like, here go stock email, boom. Yeah. I just can't. And there's times some clients, I'm sorry, this may sound wrong, but there's some clients, some like potential brands who don't deserve that, that like respect because they don't respect you. Mm-hmm. So why should I bend over backwards for a brand who emails me and uses my wrong name, they don't even say my name, they spell my common name wrong. Like, why should I respect that? I don't. And so I just, I don't, and so the brands that do respect me, like all respect them, right? And so I will follow up. I'll make sure that like, because I think so many times, you know, So in school and ho Hospitality management, my goal was to work in like the advertising side of hospitality. And so after school I worked for hotels and f and b groups, or I would do the advertising, the media side of those brands. So I have experience on both side sides, those aisles, right? So I sort of approach chi from, you know, there's some contacts at brands who they're horrible at responding to emails. They just are, and they will be. And like if you don't follow up like one or two times, they won't answer you frankly, while there's others who are very responsive, who are responding to emails instantly. And so it's a really wide range. And so being in the industry and understanding the types of managers. An advertise using folk folks you'll work with helps me me understand like, how I'm able to speak that language, understand like what value they need, right? So as I'm emailing them, as I'm sort of trying myself, I'm able to under speak and final results of like, if you book these images, if you get the short, short form content. You're able to do X, Y, and Z with that. And that's through, through advertising, through organic, through whatever. And so being able to speak that language is important for sure and has helped me as well, for sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

I could see how that could be very helpful. And I totally get that, like if you get an email that just where to get your name wrong, like if somebody gets my name wrong, like whenever I go to Starbucks for some reason. They always write Brandon on the cup, which probably tells me that I'm saying my name wrong. But um, regardless, like that person is no longer my friend. Like I don't like that person for the rest of the day. So I get that. I totally get that. Before we wrap up here, 'cause we are getting to the end of our time, I. I'm always interested in knowing because what's the phrase? Hindsight is 2020. Right. So knowing what you know now, I would love to know if you could take a time machine back eight years, right after you took that iPhone photo of the cookies and you thought, wait a minute, I could make a go at this. If you could go back to that moment and tell yourself anything, what would you tell yourself?

Nate Crawford:

Hmm. Oh, that's tough, man. I am torn because I feel like our journeys are meant for a reason, right? I think we are on these paths because life, what, what have you, whatever. I don't know if I would change anything per se. I think I would tell myself that like, you're going to take really horrible photos. And that is okay. You're going to make stuff that isn't good. You're going to make horrible mistakes within your company, the brands you shoot. Or talent you work with, everything. Like you'll make errors along the way. But just keep going. These like mistakes are not the end of the world. What will put pressing you out right now won't really matter in like a year. And to understand too that not every client will last forever. I think when I was first starting out, I thought that after I would get like a brand, that they would be here forever. And that's just not how it works. contacts change. Folks are laid off. Folks are fired. Things change. and so with those changes, you have opportunity to either keep them on or lose them. And there's moments where I've had brand, you know, LA and to, well, why 20? With, Covid. like, I had a brand, I shot a shot for every month. When March hit, from March until like December, I contacted their change seven times. Wow. And it was a whole other person I was chatting with. First Gal was laid off, other gal was. Cut, like truly like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And by round seven, the gal who I was emailing with, with, was like not interested. Any of my work was just like, oh no, we're good. We have other folks that we're hiring in. And and so there's moments like that which are like really tough at times because you're like, man, like they were a good, a good brand to shoot for, but. not every client's forever and every client has like, their season with them, there's a whole other brand that I used to shoot for like five years, and they were like my top performing brand who would work like every year we do all these shoots throughout the year. And the contact left and the no gal started and she, it just, I did not me mesh well with our styles and how we worked. And she cut ties. And so it's just like, you know, so you have these moments of like, not like heartache, but like heartbreak. It's like, oh man, like five years is a long time to work with a brand and to have that just cut, knowing that it's okay, you'll find other work, you'll find other brands, and there are seasons for every client. And to just enjoy the time you have with the client right now. 'cause it could last 10 years. It could last a day. things change for of ways all the time. And that's okay. that is the industry and that's how this game works. I.

Raymond Hatfield:

Whew. That was quite a journey we just went on right there. Yeah. Sorry.

Nate Crawford:

I don't you love, it'll be a journey.

Raymond Hatfield:

Nate, I don't know how to end it any better than that. That was phenomenal. and I really think that's gonna resonate with a lot of people as well. Mainly because it's so easy to get discouraged, you know, just as a wedding photographer, I feel like every time a couple says, either you're too expensive or, we're gonna go a different route. It's like. Oh man. But, but that, oh yeah. It's heartbreaking. It is. But that idea of knowing like there's gonna be more like this isn't gonna be the one, that really does help. Sure.

Nate Crawford:

Because, um, I had like a brand, a brand, this was last year who we were shooting the, for the monthly, and this last year we had like a full plan of like. a year contract was in the works. It was in talks. I was like, yes, we love this. And for the year, they had to cut ties because other funding got slashed. And I was like, and trying to explain that it, it feels like a breakup. It's like, yeah, it shouldn't feel like one, but it's like we had something here and now it's just gone. Like what happened? And so there is a grieving process I feel like, where you're just like, man, like that sucks. Like, no, I wanted this to happen. But you know, clients will come and go, but your talent and your work is still there. So

Raymond Hatfield:

that's perfect. I said earlier, I don't know how to end it any better than that, but that last sentence right there. Perfect. Uh, that was it. Nate, before I let you go, I know there's gonna be listeners who are gonna be interested in finding out more about who you are and, see some of your work online where can they go to do so?

Nate Crawford:

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm on Instagram at captures by TK Co. the same for our site and TikTok as well, where we're just, us and all the young kids on the internet. Uh. And that's where we're at. Uh, we're posting a lot about, like behind the scenes, about photo information, um, client work, all that, all that jazz.

Raymond Hatfield:

Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with a friend. Start a conversation, grow together. That is it for this week. Remember, the more that you shoot today. The better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow. Talk soon. Thank you for listening to The Beginner Photography podcast. Keep shooting and we'll see you next week.