The Beginner Photography Podcast

Why Your Creative Vision Matters in Photography with Michael Freeman

• Raymond Hatfield

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#464 In today's episode of the podcast, I chat with renowned photographer and author Michael Freeman about embracing the artistic journey of photography, where you'll learn to cultivate your creative eye and appreciate the process over the technical.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Continuous Learning: Embrace lifelong learning to elevate your art. Studying others' works is as crucial as mastering your camera.
  • Creative Experimentation: Forget strict rules. Prioritize creativity to make photos that stand out and reflect your unique perspective.
  • The Power of Surprise: Strive for images with unexpected elements. Predictability is the enemy of interesting photography.
  • Intentionality Wins: Plan your shots with intention, but also leave room for spontaneity. It’s about the story you want to tell.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  • Immerse Yourself in the World of Photography: Visit local art galleries or explore online photography exhibitions to discover different styles and techniques.Regularly study the work of various renowned photographers to learn from their compositions and subject matter choices.
  • Practice Intentional Shooting: Before taking your next photo, spend extra time pre-planning the shot, considering aspects like lighting, angle, and composition. After each photoshoot, review your images and note what worked and what didn't, then adjust your approach for next time.
  • Challenge the Rules of Composition: Experiment with breaking conventions such as the rule of thirds; place your subject off-center and see how it affects the impact of your photo. Create a series of photos with unconventional framing or perspective to explore new creative possibilities.
  • Experiment with Black and White Photography: Convert a selection of your images to black and white to see how it changes the mood and focus on textures and contrasts. Practice shooting with the intention of black and white output to hone your attention to light, shadow, and compositional elements.
  • Connect with the Photography Community: Join the BPP group to exchange feedback, share your work, and learn from peers. Attend photography workshops or talks in your area to network, pick up new skills, and stay inspired by what others are doing.

Resources:

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Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Michael Freeman:

Rules are designed to make something happen the same time every time, but that's the last thing you want. in any creative activity. So, rule of thirds, for instance. If everyone did it, it'd be really boring, wouldn't it? It's a bit of a tightrope to walk if you're writing about this and trying to help people. But the one you say, look, if you do this, certain things will happen. In the mind of the viewer or in your own mind and looking at it, it may just look more comfortable, but maybe you want to be a bit different. Maybe you want to be a bit edgy. He's got, you know, you, you can do what you like.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the beginner photography podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hadfield. And today we are chatting with travel photographer and longtime educator, Michael Freeman, about developing your photographic eye. But first, the beginner photography podcast is brought to you by CloudSpot. Impress your clients with a beautiful gallery that is easy to view, share, and download on any device. You can control image size, add watermarks, and download limits. So grab your free forever account at deliverphotos. com and only upgrade when you're ready. Michael Freeman has written 70 books, on photography and his book, The Photographer's Eye is consistently one of the most popular books for photographers on Amazon. Michael is not only very well versed in many areas of photography, but also, I think his ability to use words to describe and teach visual concepts is truly incredible. Michael has been shooting for a long time and he, therefore he's seen a lot of changes. So, there's a few things that he mentions that if, you know, You know, maybe you're not familiar with film photography, you might not fully understand. So, the word negs is short for negatives. And, negative is the film that was actually in your camera in the film days. they're called negatives because the light and the color are inverted. So you would have to reverse the image to get accurate color and light when, printing the photos. He also talks about transparency film as well, which is the exact opposite film, that captures accurate light and color. so transparency film is what they used in things like, slide projectors and whatnot. there are two very different films, for two very different, uh, Use cases. So hopefully that fills you in on, on a bit of the conversation there. Those are the two main ones, but, I know that, uh, you're going to enjoy this one if you stick around. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Michael Freeman. Michael, I want to know, when did you first know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Michael Freeman:

It wasn't a sudden moment. It happened gradually. Let me see, this is a very long time ago in the 1960s. Right. And in those days. You didn't generally didn't do whatever you wanted. You didn't have gap years and you did what you were told. and basically at school I was told I should apply to Oxford or Cambridge and I did. So I went to Oxford. when I left Oxford, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I studied geography, which, you know, was fun, but it didn't want to become a geography teacher. and I went into advertising. Advertising at that time was very fashionable. In fact, I joined Central and I joined a New York agency, one of the biggest at the time, and it was the British operation to keep big clients like Procter Gamble and General Foods and IBM happy. It was fun, but I got bored in the end, or sort of frustrated, really, and I mean, the work was, it was interesting for a while, but at the time, I'd always wanted to take photographs, but also I'd always wanted to write. So, I mean, for me, it was a case of, Something like feature journalism was a vague ambition, but that wasn't on the cards. It wasn't a proper job. When I was at Oxford, I spent more time working on the university newspaper than I did on the course. but journalism was not seen as serious. I know that sounds strange, but it wasn't a proper career. So I'd done my duty because everyone told me to. But in the end, I decided I really needed to get out and do something. So it was then after a few years in advertising and I escaped. By, taking a sabbatical. Again, it's a different era. It just wouldn't be possible now. But my boss, two times higher, he, he took a sabbatical and went around the world with his champagne heiress wife to visit old friends around the world. And I thought that sounds pretty good idea. But what I'd always wanted to do was go up the Amazon. We're either going to be a stock rider in Queensland, or we'd be an adventurer of the Ansems. So, some, many years later, I decided, right, I said, I want a sabbatical too, for two and a half months. And they said, okay, that means they pay you, and they just wait for you to come back. Sort of like maternity leave. I bought some second hand cameras, Hasselblads from a guy in the media department. And I, took a plane to South America and wandered around. So it was very irresponsible. But that was the way I got myself.

Raymond Hatfield:

I appreciate you sharing that. I think that a lot of people can resonate, starting going to school for something to learn it, get into that career and then decide later on that they want to switch. But had photography been in your life, before this point, because it sounded like you were in school, you were interested in the journalism, but like, where did the idea for capturing your trip to the Amazon on photos come from? Because, in my head, it's. How great would it be just to go and experience those things, you know, very few people actually think to themselves, let's take a camera and especially Hasselblad. So like, where did this idea of the importance of photography come from? Was it at an early age?

Michael Freeman:

I really don't know the answer to that, despite the fact I've had plenty of time to think about it. But Gradually from an early age, to me, photography was a kind of magic. Just the idea that you could capture a moment, not that my early moments were particularly special, was, there's some magic to it, something that was beyond logic. Mm hmm. And I had the ability to make interesting looking images, so ones that I thought were interesting. So, it became, gradually, a real interest, and then a need.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, when, you're in the Amazon, you have these Hasselblads. There's no auto mode, there's no, uh, aperture priority, there's nothing. It's, these things are full manual, right? No

Michael Freeman:

autofocus,

Raymond Hatfield:

right? Yeah, nothing. So, how did those photos turn out? was normal. You know, that was normal. No, of course. Of

Michael Freeman:

course. When autofocus came out, we used to joke about it and say, what, you know, if you can't focus the lens anyway, you shouldn't be a photographer. Why would you need autofocus? You work with what you've got in anything in life. particularly anything that involves any kind of technology. So we didn't know anything better than that. Sure. And, and these Hasselblads, first of all, they were, I got a really good deal. Yeah. And then I got a, another one from a client, a Swedish client, and he wanted a rubber dinghy. And so we arranged that we'd do a swap, so basically I had this super wide, which is a compact little asphalt lamp, and it cost me 125 pounds, let's say 160. No. Yeah, it did. And, you know, I still use it. Well, I came back to using it a couple of years ago. So now I travel with it. and it's a beautiful, I don't know, there's, you know, cameras and equipment a tricky thing in photography because it's evident that too many people spend too much time going on about it. You only have to go to any sort of photography fair just to see, oh God, it's ridiculous, you know, but nevertheless, so we always like to say, Hey, it's just a tool. Okay. But nevertheless, every serious photographer pays a great deal of attention to the equipment. So there's this sort of, ambivalent relationship between something that it's what you use, so you have to love it and take good care of it, but you have to think, shall we say, through the viewfinder, not twiddling knobs.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure, sure. Having the knowledge that you have today, you've had a long career in photography. If you think back to those first photos that you took in the Amazon, right, like this was kind of your first attempt at really trying to make something interesting, artistic. Sick. What would you say about those photos? were they lacking, as compared to where you are today?

Michael Freeman:

Well, there's two views. One is, how did they look at the time? And I was surprised. there was quite a number of good ones that I liked. And in the end, actually, that's the only thing that matters. And even if your eye and your judgment isn't fully developed, that doesn't matter. I mean, it will, or it'll move somewhat, but you got to have, they got to please you. and obviously the more, the more you come to know about photography. About the world of photography, your place in it, what other people do, then, if you're paying attention, your judgment will get better and you'll be more critical, and hopefully improve. But, I still have a few of those pictures, which I, um. It's still a good picture. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, it was partly an escape, a real escape, a sort of trying to escape an area that I'd found I'd got myself into that I wasn't, I didn't see it as, as a really interesting future. And then it was partly, experiment, so both those counts came out pretty well.

Raymond Hatfield:

Were those photos the catalyst for you to say, you know what, maybe I'm not going to go back after my sabbatical? Or what was your work history after that? How'd you Yeah, I, I,

Michael Freeman:

yes, I mean it, certainly took some time, but I had some luck. hawked them around. The funny thing was that, so I'd still live in central London, because I had no idea what to do. I sort of did things that you wouldn't normally do, like I, I rang up the Brazilian embassy and spoke to the cultural attaché and said, look, I've got some nice pictures of the Amazon. And he said, really nice man. And he said, great, actually, that's just what we're looking for. Because, you know, we've been doing all this sort of economic stuff and it'd be nice to have some, something, a bit more sort of appealing, visually. And he put on an exhibition. Wow. Yeah. And he had a, and this is in central London in Mayfair. And then he had a guest list, and he invited, among other people, the picture editor of the Daily Telegraph magazine. And this is when magazines, this is when weekend supplements were new and hot, yeah? The guy came, right? Oh, he gave me work. And then there were two senior editors from Time Life. who was selling a London edit at the time to do book series, and they came and they said, Oh, can we borrow the pictures? so actually it took quite a bit of time, because I went, I went back to work, but I was still, you know, playing around. And a few months later, I got a call from the picture editor of Timeline, And she said, would you like to come along and see what we're doing with the pictures? So, oh, actually, I've more or less forgotten about it. So, after work, I went along and she said, well, we didn't, I didn't call you before because we change our minds a lot. I mean, was that ever true? But, this is her. So, she showed me and I had the cover of. The first book in the series, in the Wild Places series. Oh no, I'm kidding. I had Double Trucks. I had Chateauneuf. And when I went home on the bus that evening, I thought, that's the best. Encouragement I'm never going to get because none of the art, I mean, no art directors at the agency said, Michael, what are you wasting your time for? You need to be a photographer. Nobody said that. So the next day I resigned. Again, a different era. And the agency gave me a leaving present of two weeks work for a major client as a photographer. What? It was, oh, it was a tough world. This was, late Mad Men era, right? It was a tough world, but it was decent.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's incredible. so then, okay. Oh, yes, the pictures were okay.

Michael Freeman:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, obviously. Yeah Doesn't get much better than that. So then how do you transition from just taking photos into because now you've written I mean, how many books how many books on photography? Have you written?

Michael Freeman:

Oh on photography 70 17 books on for the 77 0 7 0 So how many books altogether? 156 So

Raymond Hatfield:

how do you get to that point at what point do you say you know what taking photos is great But I actually want to share this knowledge with others. How did you get there?

Michael Freeman:

No, no, you don't get that, that's, that's not regular progress, it's something on the side. I do it because I enjoy doing it.

Raymond Hatfield:

The sharing part? The writing part? Is that what you're referring to?

Michael Freeman:

I like books. I like putting books together. So what happened was after quite a number of years, still not enough, to be actually knowledgeable. I had a good relationship with this publisher and they said, look, we want to do a book about photography. Do you do it? You can do it. So yeah, I'll do it. So I did it. It turned out pretty well. And I think in the end it sold three quarters of a million copies. That's not to do with the, excellence of the writing so much as the sales. I mean, you know, the books, particularly illustrated books, where the margins are very small, as are the percentage royalties, incidentally. We're not talking about novels here. There's a big structure of marketing and sales and foreign rights. And that's really, you've got to be with, good company. That's the way it works.

Raymond Hatfield:

So got to say, Michael, you have a number of books, like you've been, I think when I transitioned out of, cinematography into photography, of course, you know, that was the thing I did. I went to libraries, went to, Amazon to look for books. Like, your name has always been, for me, in the top, you know, five books on Amazon on photography.

Michael Freeman:

Hey, who were the other

Raymond Hatfield:

four? Uh, I don't remember who they are. No, no, no. I don't

Michael Freeman:

want the answer to that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Nobody left. Uh, you were right there at the top for sure. Yeah, thanks, then. So, um, I guess, one, I want to know, like, why do you think that is, like, why do you think your books resonate with people so well that they continue to buy books, that they recommend these books to others? and then two, how does that influence you going forward when you make new books?

Michael Freeman:

Well, on the first, I'd like to think, because I do think about the writing a lot, that it's because, um, there's no bullshit. I mean, I really try and avoid that. I also try and avoid writing stuff that's been written by other people before. Why would you want to do that? I mean, unfortunately, now on social media, you can see endless stuff churned out, cut and pasted. What's the point? It's not interesting. So I've always tried to write in a way, like conversation, In other words, direct to, I mean, I like, should we say literature? Yeah. and I, appreciate good writing. I like to talk directly to the other person as an intelligent, interested person. person who's interested in this. So when you write books about, should we say, how to books in some way, then it's important, I think, to not to talk down, not to waffle, sorry, that's probably a non American word, but not to just say, just ramble on. Yeah. And, and it's important to all the time have an idea. I mean, the only words that are worth writing are stuff that comes from your head, not regurgitated from somewhere else. Otherwise, what's the point? So I always have a kind of analytical mind. And I realize that that's a bit unusual for, visual artists, because most people are either visual or they write. Yes. There's only a few that sort of manage to bring them together. So that's how I hope it works.

Raymond Hatfield:

What's interesting is that like, when you have a lifetime's worth of experience in something, and this is something that I struggle with, is that I, for some reason, believe that everybody knows what I know. So it's hard for me, to kind of talk about something to somebody else, because I don't know where they're at, and I just assume that they know what I know, so what do I have to share for them, but for you to have created the amount of information that you have on photography for photographers, that's a big thing and you continue to do it in, like, in such a high quality way. To say that, like, you're just polite about it, I really think that you continue to put in a ton of work because, your latest book on black and white. I have a question about that because you had just said there, you're like, I'm not going to write about what other people have written about, and there's a million other books on black and white. So is it a perspective thing that you mean that you don't want to talk about what everybody else has talked about?

Michael Freeman:

Well, I try not to. I want to talk about the things that I find interesting, and it's often about ideas. So, aesthetically, black and white's really, really interesting because it was photography until two things happened. Color film became widely available and magazines Started printing in color, the two things went together. And interestingly, what I've been thinking about this more recently, is that the color that we shot, so when I started, basically, was the early 70s. And that was just the time when color was what everyone wanted, editorially. And what we all shot was, transparency film. Nobody shot negs. The reason nobody shot negs editorially, well a few people did, but they were just being difficult, um, is that you can't edit, negatives. I mean, my life in photography has been very, particularly because I was in advertising, I didn't want to go back into advertising. I wanted a more glamorous life, which was shooting for magazines. and traveling the world and doing picture stories. of course, I became very familiar with the magazine editorial world. And I'm talking about, picture stories rather than, the managed studio shoots, okay? It's the reportage. So, what that meant, and every magazine, I'm like, Books, Smithsonian, Geographic, Sunday Times. You're in a picture room. In the picture room, around the side with the walls where you pinned up the layers, which were always in black and white, right? In the middle was a large table. No seats, everyone stood. So it's a big table, and it was a light table. So, you know, this large glowing table, and stacks and stacks of slides, and, you know, people would slide them across, da da da da da da da da, like that. And what it meant was, it's a different way of shooting altogether. So, what I'm getting around, rather lengthily, the point is that the shooting meant It stopped the minute you pressed that shutter release. You didn't do anything else to it. It came back. When you came back from a trip, a bike came, you got a bike, a delivery bike, and they took the, all the rolls, and they brought them back later in the day, and that was it. You'd shot what you'd shot. of course, that, I mean, color transparency is then a segue into digital. In the early part of this century. Yeah, around the early two thousands. So what happened then was that, so you have three periods of photography. You have black and white only, then, at least from, in my world, then there was color. Very rigid, all about the shock. And now, you can do anything with it. Meaning digital. Yeah. Yeah. And you can anticipate. And you've got raw files and obviously, nothing was much good in like 2003, but, now, for heaven's sake. Right. 50 megapixels It's wild. Pro raw images. There's a ton of information in there. So, black and white, where did black and white fit into this? So black and white, instead of being what everyone did, because that was all there was, to being elective, black and white is now something you do because you want to do it. So that's a, it's a different route back to this early idea of photography. Yeah. And I find that really interesting, because in the very early days, well, obviously there were many notable photographers who did heroic work in the darkroom and knew when they were shooting what they could do. I mean, you just look at anything about Eugene Smith, I mean, he, I never met him. But he was certainly a hero of mine, and he had his own ideas about what you do. I mean, he kind of fooled around, if you like. I mean, you wouldn't get, past, the door of World Press Photo these days, but the idea was you took a shot knowing that you'd be doing something with that shot. You knew how it would want, how you wanted it to be. So the negative was really just one step.

Raymond Hatfield:

As a show called the beginner photography podcast, there's a lot of listeners today who are brand new to photography and this world is still very new to them and there's a big push to like record in raw, have all of the data possible, and then. You can explore all the possibilities after the fact, right, within editing. Well,

Michael Freeman:

it's absolutely true. That's not what I like to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Freeman:

Look, photography has room for everyone in it. and there's lots of kinds of photography that I really don't like. Yeah. But, I appreciate that people do it because they like it. So, it's not for me to say. You shouldn't do that. People do what they like. but my idea has always been and it's all of this is very much connected with personality. So my idea is probably informed by the fact that I've been 50 years of professional is that you should know what you're doing from the start. Yeah. Okay. There was always going to be surprises. And some of them will be lucky surprises. But I'm not a fan of saying, well let's just take a picture, any picture, and then we just go and work on it in the darkroom and make it nice. Yeah. I don't think so. To me, you should be thinking when you're taking the picture when you're planning to take a picture all the way through. So my view of modern digital photography is that the process of photography stretches from set preparing to shoot. Depending what kind of shooting you're doing, but being aware of in the street, being alert to possibilities, not to the point of pressing the button, but to the final delivery, whether it's a print or it's on screen and good processing. Or printing. Yeah, the idea is to do the best for a good photograph anyway, but to bring out the best qualities, the ones that you were hoping for. It becomes a, stretched out process, but it's still a process that begins with the idea of. That's an interesting picture. That can be a picture. Whichever kind of shooting you do.

Raymond Hatfield:

How do we get there, though? How do we get from I don't know how to use this camera, I'm just hoping for the best, hopefully I'll press this shutter enough that I'll get a photo that I like, to you see the photo in your head before you take the photo and you know exactly how it's going to turn out. How do we get there?

Michael Freeman:

First, the technology is, it gets better all the time and easier all the time. So the camera will generally, will do, will do it by default, it will give you a workable picture. There's now these things called autofocus, newfangled ideas. So you'll get a picture. So that's less of a problem. There shouldn't be any kind of, uh, what do I do with this? You pick it up and shoot, you know, phones. I mean, that's another thing. These, yes, I love my hassle. Blood. This is the real future. The phone, it doesn't have to be in a phone, but it's something that is extremely easy to use. It's with you all the time. And what that should be doing is making you less concerned about the fiddly bits and more concerned about what do you see? What's interesting? That's really why I was in about 15 years ago, I decided I wanted to write a book about composition because to be honest, almost no one had. It seemed a bit weird to me. Yeah. Also, I know money. Professional community. And it's one of the things that photographers really don't like talking about. But, organizing the stuff in the frame. Framing it. Da da da da da da da da. That's something. You don't need, you know, all the technicalities to do. You've got a frame, and the camera that surrounds it, and they do now can take that picture. That's what becomes one of the most important things. Assuming you've already got an idea. you know, whether it's, well, I'm going to shoot in the street today, I'm going to see, get a picture of this person, you know, some interactions, whatever. Then, it's very much, to a large extent, it's about how you identify the things you're going to photograph. called Subjects, and how you organize them in the frame.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a hard thing though.

Michael Freeman:

It is a hard thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think it's a hard thing for new photographers to understand because they've taken photos all their lives. They've taken photos all their lives and never thought about anything like the background or where to place their subject within the frame. They're just pointing and shooting. So now that we have this tool, where we can control these things, it becomes an additional layer, right? As you said, like, not only do we have to figure out all these fiddly bits, but now also we have to figure out, like, what's in the frame. Well, I would

Michael Freeman:

say you strip out the rest. That becomes easier, and concentrate on that. Well, other part of this, of learning how to do this, well, there's two parts to it. There's something to reject and avoid at all costs. And that's people telling you what makes a good composition. I do try very hard to say not to put too much judgment into this. And I, absolutely insist that in any creative activity, Whether it's writing, playing music, or photography, the whole idea of a set of rules is anathema, right? We're not doing engineering here. We're not building a bridge. So rules are designed to make something happen the same time every time. And in engineering, you really do need that. But that's the last thing you want. in any creative activity. Rule of thirds, for instance. If everyone did it, it'd be really boring, wouldn't it? Sure. You know, it's that kind of thing. So, it's a bit of a tightrope to walk if you're writing about this and trying to help people. But the one, and you say, look, if you do this, certain things will happen in the mind of the viewer. Or, in your own mind, and looking at it, it may just look more comfortable, the arrangement. Right. but maybe you want to be a bit different. Maybe you want to be a bit edgy and do stuff, you know, that's, that some people are not going to like. Or maybe most people aren't going to like. But it's gonna make, it's, you know, you, you can do what you like. That's my problem is, suggesting, but trying to avoid dictating, of course. Anyway, that's the negative side. That's the side you have to reject the side to embrace is, it's really one of the simplest things in the world and every professional photographer, I know does it all the time, is to look at. other people's photographs. I mean, I don't know a photographer who, within his or her area, doesn't know who the greats are. The greats from the past, the ones coming up. They know, because the more you absorb, the more you're able to form an opinion. You're saying, well, I like that. That's good. I like what that guy does. So then you say, okay, fine, look at what that guy does or did. What makes it hang together? Why do I like it? So anyone can do that. And that's why, in my view, we're all beginners. We should all be beginners. In the sense that, yes, accumulate all the knowledge, all the ideas, all the opinions, but the minute you start to think you know it, you're lost. You have to, even at my age, I have to try and surprise myself. Because otherwise it's not going to be very interesting. I mean, who wants to go out and take pictures that they planned already? I mean, I find that really kind of boring. Sure. Commercially, there are always surprises. Of course, they don't come when you want. And they, like London buses, they probably come two or three at a time and then there's not another one by half an hour. But you have to be open to surprises. You can do this a beginner or somebody who's experienced. Anyone can do it. Right? We're all used to looking at screens, at pictures, at movies. You know, we've been cinematographer. I mean, it's a different way of putting images together, but some cinematographers or, you know, or directors have a kind of eye that is more similar to a still photographer's eye. Stanley Kubrick, for example. None of my heroes. and you can see from the way that many of his frames are set up, that, that would have a photographer would do, a still photographer would do. That, I think, is very important, is to study pictures made by people, and you can make it easy for yourself, the ones that are well known, okay, that's a good start, right? Because if they're notable, in modern terminology, then, at least you're not gonna be wasting your time looking.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you have any tricks for looking at somebody else's work? And not falling into the trap of comparing yourself, because that's a big issue today with just the amount of photos that we can consume. Have you heard, have you heard that this is It's a

Michael Freeman:

good, you know, if it's a good, photographer, it's a good photographer, you're going to find it quite difficult to take pictures like that. And there's a tradition in art, in painting, which goes all the way back in Western art, in Chinese art, where you learn by copying the masters. Now, it's rather different with painting. Because you could take your time, you've got it there, but you learn how the strokes go. And you practice that until you kind of got into it. So there's a lot, very common now to say, oh, you shouldn't copy, da da da. It's damn hard to copy a good picture. Yeah. Good photograph. Very hard. Now what you can do, of course, is set your sights very low, and a lot of people do this now on picture sharing social media, and they do a very genre specific kind of picture. Say, neutral density waterscapes. Yes. Yeah, okay. Now, I mean, I find these very interesting to look at. Well, interesting. No, I find it philosophically interesting, because When they were new, when only a few people had done these, they were interesting. But with volume, they all look the same. The problem is that if you set your sights low, and aim for a very technique focused kind of photography, then the work's all gonna look the same, or very similar. The technique will overwhelm the personality of the work. And the photographer,

Raymond Hatfield:

the technique will overwhelm the personality of the photographer. So to avoid that from happening, we need to introduce more of our personality,

Michael Freeman:

avoid the low hanging fruit, basically, and aim for something a little bit more special, or more where you have more feelings about

Raymond Hatfield:

it.

Michael Freeman:

It's, this is not a foolproof solution, but the thing that always helps. Is really having a very sound knowledge of the world of photography. you can't go to enough exhibitions. There's plenty of sites on the internet. To go on, look at what people are doing, whether it's, a survey of one photographer's past work. So it's not that hard to find good photographers within the areas that you enjoy. Which might be reportage, might be street photography, might be fashion. people, the good people are known. So if you take your time to look, I mean, I do it. Where do I look? Okay. I like looking at the Magnum website, for example. No, there's no bad Magnum photographers, really. And a huge number of photographers, you know, in history. Yeah. I look at lens culture. I'm not plugging them. It's just that they're not quite as easy to look through as it used to be. But, another one is, well, all magazines have. you know, they've got some kind of photo section. So, if you like, I mean, National Geographic, have a lot of, social media presence. Of course. Yeah. Life Magazine now. you know, if you go on to Google, is it Google Books? There's some deal where you can download every issue of Life Magazine, including these ones. Yeah. Wow. You can do everything, right from the very start. Yeah. I think it's Google Books that does it. And then also, there are these aggregated gallery and auction sites, like artsy. net. And what these people do is, they aggregate, galleries from around the world, uh, And options, right? So you just type in the name of the photographer and it'll show you all the stuff.

Raymond Hatfield:

Really,

Michael Freeman:

who's selling it? Yeah. So I wanted to look at, uh, I've got this up on the screen here. I'm interested in certain periods of history. So I'm looking here, Alexander Rochenko, who was Russian, very geometric, unusual angles. So he's got a picture here from 1935. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

So when you go on sites like this, you go on to, are you using it to explore and open up your mind No. Of different photographers or dive deeper into one photographer's work?

Michael Freeman:

Well, both. I mean, you know, I'll kind of like, I have an idea. Come look at Chenko. Not I, I remember one or two things he's done.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-Hmm., Michael Freeman: because I I see, I like that idea.

Michael Freeman:

and this is all black and white that I'm looking at Consider,

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah. It sounds to me like, when it comes to learning photography, one of the most important things is to just immerse yourself in the technical details, to learn the tool as much as possible. No? Go on, I was wrong there? Well, yeah, but how long is that

Michael Freeman:

going to take?

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, no, exactly, yeah, I mean, it could, technically it could take forever. You know?

Michael Freeman:

It's not the most important thing. You need to be, you need to be competent, absolutely. And also, depending on the kind of work you do, then obviously you're always learning. I mean, in doing, I mean, I spent a lifetime of doing mainly repertory also do studio work, mainly repertory and there you really have to be alert and it means you your camera and that this goes back to the days of film, right? Camera has to be really an extension of your hand and the more you use it, the less you have to think about it. Sure, sure. But of course it's essential, but it's a kind of that's taken as understood that you will be learning how to operate the machine and gradually getting better and better, but that is not what is going to improve your photography. It'll help you get a picture fast enough so that you capture the moment before it's over. But. Behind all this is much more important is what you think is going to make a good picture. And again, there's room for everyone here. It might be that you, you're really, what really interesting is the expression on people's faces or gestures, or it may be you're interested in the pure graphics of a picture.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's what's so hard about photography. There's so much. It's all over the place. So, this is going to sound, super, cliche, I guess. But if you had to tell, a brand new photographer, how to be successful as a photographer, maybe not commercially or, you know, anything like that, but from personal How to satisfy themselves. How to satisfy themselves. What would you tell them?

Michael Freeman:

Well, it's not, a single thing. It's not a, secret of the universe answer. It's a continuing process. So, first understand there are no magic bullets in photography. Why? If there were, it wouldn't be worth doing. So, you have to commit yourself. You have to learn to form an opinion about what's good and what's not, what's interesting. You have to, on the one hand, keep practicing with the equipment, learn how it works, learn how to use it seamlessly, right? You have to immerse yourself in the world of photography to know what the people who are in your world, your part of that world of photography, whether that's like some wildlife photography or, street or something like that, what they're doing. You need to know where the bar is on every kind of, and you have to do it, you got to go out and do it, or you may have to go in and do it in the studio. Of

Raymond Hatfield:

course, but practice is key.

Michael Freeman:

Also realizing every, every kind of worthwhile photography, whether it's in the studio and managed by a team of people to an inch of its death. There's always small surprises, and they can be big surprises. If a picture is entirely predictable, it's not going to be that interesting. It may be what the client needs, but, I don't do fashion photography. And for that reason, I'm interested in fashion totally, in looking at it. And you can see where some moment has happened, or some gesture, or the photographer's like, Hey, why don't we just do that? Change the lighting here or that. And it becomes a little bit more special. And maybe it becomes more special. I see. If you do those things, you're on the way. you're on the journey.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's all that we can hope for. That's perfect. Well, Michael, we're at the end of our time. I cannot believe how fast this time went. For those listening who are thinking to themselves, This was great. I want to learn more about this world of photography. I want to learn more about Michael and what he's doing. Where's the best place for us to find you online?

Michael Freeman:

Google, I guess.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Michael Freeman:

All right. Type in Google or go to Amazon and type in Michael Freeman.

Raymond Hatfield:

Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the beginner photography podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with a friend. Start a conversation, grow together. That is it for this week. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. for listening to the beginner photography podcast. Keep shooting and we'll see you next week.