Can Your Photography Thrive Without Social Media? with David Enloe

#456 In today's episode of the podcast, I chat with San Francisco Family Photographer David Enloe about how stepping away from social media and focusing on personalized marketing strategies can elevate your photography business. You might discover unconventional yet effective techniques to grow your client base and appreciate the art of photography.

THE BIG IDEAS

• Embrace Unconventional Marketing: Discover alternative paths to client engagement without social media; pop-up studios can work wonders.
• Value Personal Space: Comfort in your marketing approach improves mental energy and creativity; social media isn't mandatory.
• Focus on Quality Content: Strengthen your online presence with an excellent website and SEO; this attracts more genuine interest.
• Build and Utilize Your Email List: Emails foster a personal connection with clients; free offers can lead to profitable relationships.

BEST PRACTICES

1. Pop-Up Success: Engage directly with potential clients at public events to build visibility and an email list. Personal interactions nurture business growth far better than a passive online presence.
2. Social Media Strategy: Don't spread yourself thin across all platforms. Choose the ones you enjoy and focus on building quality interactions. Remember, it's about the value you offer, not the quantity of posts.
3. Email over Social: For deeper connections and communication of your art's value, leverage email marketing. Greater personal space and open rates mean messages resonate more with potential clients.
4. Embrace Email: Write engaging, educational, and non-salesy content to keep your audience interested and informed about your services.
5. Photography Approach: Focus on capturing genuine moments and interactions. Offer free social media-sized downloads as a gateway to selling high-resolution images.
6. Manual Mode: Overcome the fear of manual mode for better control and consistency in your photographs. Practice leads to competence and confidence.

Resources:
San Francisco Family Photographer David Enloe's Website

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• Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Transcript

David Enloe: 0:02

I did my Facebook business account, I put some energy into Instagram for sure. The reality for me is it never did much. I'm not great on social media. I don't think I come across that well on social media. The reason I should have known is probably that I don't like social media. So, if you can't convince yourself you like something, you're never going to convince other people that you like it. And if you don't like what you're doing, people don't want to listen. So it's not surprising that social media didn't work for me. The amount of energy that I was putting into thinking about posting, I'm going around and I'm like, looking at my daughter doing this and I'm like, oh, would that go well on Instagram? I don't want to have that in my brain. That's too much space for what I was getting out of it certainly.

Raymond Hatfield: 0:45

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host Raymond Hatfield, and today we are chatting with Family Portrait photographer David Ilow about building a photography business without social media. This episode is brought to you by Clouds Spot the all-in-one way better than Google Drive solution to deliver and even sell your photos online, you can grab your free forever Cloud spot account with 10 gigabytes of free photo storage over@deliverphotos.com. Today's guest, David has been a listener of the show for a number of years. He first emailed me, I think, more than four years ago, asking for advice, on a direction to start his business. And as you'll hear today, he's got some, you know, a pretty good thing going on. But when he reached out a few months ago, uh, to gimme an update, and he told me that he's doing it all while quitting social media. I knew we had to get 'em on the show to ask these questions, but whether you use social or not, this interview is gonna be super helpful. The day of our interview, actually right after Facebook and Instagram, there was like a huge outage that locked out millions of people from their accounts for hours. For my wife, it was a few days, and if your business is like a hundred percent on social and social goes down, you, you don't exist. So pay attention to what David shares today and how he attracts and engages with clients. It really took me by surprise, and if you're struggling to get clients, trust me, anybody can implement this. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with David Enlow. David, my first question for you is, and I know that you know it, when was the first time that you knew that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

David Enloe: 2:28

Yeah, you're right. I do know that question. I've heard it a few times on your podcast or like hundreds. And I've always thought about it not knowing I would be a guest on the show and not known the answer. But as I leading up to the show, I was kind of digging into my brain and I think the answer, if I had to put it in one place would be. The dark room, like black and white dark room in high school. I. Was probably the last generation maybe even the last class who had the honor of Old school darkroom black and white in high school, at least at my high school And I'm pretty sure I took the class twice not because I failed the first time but because I like Petitioned to take the class twice and I think I was a bit of a nuisance in high school And so they were just like yeah, David you do you like if anything you're interested in just go for it But I would say Late into the evening as long as I could before they'd kick me out. And I didn't do that for anything else in high school. I was not interested in high school in really any way, shape or form. At that point, yeah, I think like I knew photography was going to play a part in my life. What part? I had no idea. I didn't think of it as a career path in any way. And I had had a camera in hand a lot of the time before that class too, just like super casually, like it was already the roots were there. But from that point forward it felt a little bit more artistic and meaningful and even if I wasn't in the darkroom after that I always thought about maybe someday I'll have a darkroom or get back to the darkroom and I still haven't done that, more in the digital world right now. But I think that was when I knew.

Raymond Hatfield: 4:03

Why do you think that you didn't see photography as a career path?

David Enloe: 4:07

Yeah, it's a good question. It's not like I thought it was impossible. I even remember I like shadowed or like hung out with my, friend or classmate's dad is like one of the few professional photographers where I grew up. It's a small place where I grew up. and I remember I even sat in his office or studio one afternoon and watched him edit some photos and chatted with him. I even made some videos during high school that people paid me for. So it wasn't like I didn't think it was possible. I think my biggest problem was, I don't know, it's really not a problem, but was a problem. I'm good at math and science. And I was fairly good in school. I was good at the academic side. I was good at taking tests. And I had no idea. I was, as confused as any young kid. And I, so I, anything that I was good at and people gave me really positive feedback about, I think I just followed that. And it's a lot easier to get a lot of positive feedback in an academic environment. And I was in like a college preppy sort of private school. And so you're going to get a lot more positive feedback when you do really good in AP econ or whatever, you know, photography was like. It was a side note. It was like, oh, it's really it's that's cool. Yeah, you're good at it. Whatever Maybe you'll sell some prints someday, but just wasn't like a clear path forward, and it wasn't what other people were pressing me to do, and I was easily influenced at that age. I didn't have that knowledge of what I was gonna be when I was older,

Raymond Hatfield: 5:34

so. Right. That's one of the hardest things, I think, there's a lot of pressure to, what are you gonna be when you grow up? What is it that you wanna do? And I think for people like us who knew that this camera like means something and we can do something with but that pressure of what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Feels like the answer has to be, a quote unquote real job and not so much in that creative field. So I, I totally understand that. Going back to your photography class though, like before you had taken that, you obviously had some sort of interest in photography itself. Tell me about that interest. Was it math and science side of the ratios and the aperture and all these numbers, or was it the, wow, I don't have to think as much as I normally do when I'm working on this the academic side of my life.

David Enloe: 6:17

Yeah, there's definitely a big part of that answer, which is I don't know, because I don't remember that well, because I wasn't thinking that hard about it back then, but specifically, no, I don't think my attachment to my attraction to photography has ever really been the math, science y, technical side of it. When people start talking a lot about gear, and the technical aspects of it, at some point I do start to zone out. Like it's important to me to some extent, certainly, but that's not my main draw to photography. I think prior to that class, maybe it almost had less to do with the photography itself. I think I've always had a strong appreciation for place for like where I am and I lived I grew up in the Caribbean. I grew up on a little island in the Caribbean and I knew I felt like a lucky kid. Like I learned to at least after I learned to surf, I like became obsessed with surfing at around age 12. It was like my focus, my goal. If anything, that's what I wanted to do for a career. And, math and science were peripheral, really? But I was always in these beautiful environments. I remember driving to school in the morning with literally my now wife in the back, like front or back seat. I like we, me and my friends, we carpooled and she was a high school friend and we were dating and she is not like me in this way at all. I, we would drive by this beautiful sunrise. I would literally pull the car over. We'd be getting late for school and I'd be like, this is incredible. Like I just, that's amazing. And she'd be sitting there like are you kidding me? We're going to be late for school. I couldn't care less about the sunset. We live here. I see it every single day. So I don't know how that translates to photography entirely, but I, those were the eyes I saw the world through. And so I think, photography allows you to try and capture that in a way that you can share with other people and remember. So I think it just came from

Raymond Hatfield: 8:02

that when you were learning the actual technical side though. Was there anything specifically that you found difficult or challenging?

David Enloe: 8:11

Yeah, I definitely started in much more, like obviously in more automatic and program modes. I don't, I think, was really lucky my dad also took photos. He was like largely taking photos of me surfing because I was trying to get sponsored and stuff. So he kind of got into photography and I think along the way he was showing me at that like nice young age when you can easily absorb things. Shutter speed, aperture. I so like, I think he knew those things and he was playing with them. So I think those were always kind of ingrained in me, in a big way. I was thinking about how that technical part of learning to use the camera and light and all those things almost became more of a challenge recently when it became like when regained my photography momentum and turned it into a business. Because I think when I was just doing it for myself, I was just more open to playing with things. But then when you put clients in front of me and I'm trying to work quickly moving kids and lighting and all these factors, I found myself really quickly reverting back to some sort of auto and program mode and trying to find these crutches to help me along. So I think the thing I struggled most with was not just like learning the basics of manual modes in the camera, but like applying that to quickly moving real life scenarios and having kind of the confidence. Or just the willingness to use that and to try it and not fall back to those other modes,

Raymond Hatfield: 10:25

I've done that as well. I mean, some of the first weddings that I went to when I went to weddings, as a second shooter, I was full manual because I was like, eh, who cares? You don't have the same pressure as when you're like the, the main shooter. But when I started taking my own weddings. I would do that as well. I think the first he that I shot were an aperture priority just because a hundred percent I was nervous that I didn't wanna aperture priority. Yeah, it's great. It's great when you need it. So the question then becomes, how do you get past that? Or how do you know that you want to get past that?

David Enloe: 10:56

For me I realized at some point, 'cause I, again, I wasn't like struggling with this conceptual understanding of manual mode and camera settings like I had that there. I think the answer is probably doing a lot of personal work or if you're in the business side of it or starting a business, doing some free work. I'm a huge fan of doing free work for the right people at the right time because it brings those two worlds together, right? Like you're, there's still some pressure. You're still working with people. You want them to like the photos, but they're not paying you anything. So you can like, you really can experiment. And I think basically for me, I just realized at some point that it was actually a detriment. When you're working hard to take good photos in these program modes, it seems so simple, but you're letting the camera do a lot of the work. And when you start to ask a lot of questions and you're like, why isn't this working or that working? You end up like digging really deep into, why is the camera doing it this way? And I found myself starting to try and like back end my camera, like, well, I want to be in aperture priority mode, but I'm going to put it in this program mode where the shutter speed never drops below 250. And I want to make sure if my highlights are getting blown, that it's showing me that on the screen. And all of a sudden I was like, this is actually more complicated than manual mode. So finally I was like, I'm just going to do what I meant. I just went and did a client session in manual mode. I was like, that was so much easier. I think I also realized at some point that. And this is like the most simple thing, but like when you're in manual mode, especially here in the Bay area, we have a lot of fog and overcast. Right. And I think the first session I shot in manual mode entirely, it was a foggy or an overcast day. I basically didn't have to change my settings. Once I realized that I was like here I am futzing around with this aperture priority mode and where is it metering? Where is the camera metering? What's the brain of the camera telling the shutter speed to do and why is this happening? I literally all I had to do is set my settings and maybe change my aperture a little bit shutter speed a little bit done. That's when I kind of just relaxed. I was like, this is not that hard.

Raymond Hatfield: 13:00

So that was a great realization. funny because I've gotten a lot of questions from listeners who would say things like, I really want to get into manual, but like, do I have to change my settings for every single photo? And it's like, no, no, you don't. It's not as long as the light stays relatively the same. You really don't have to change much at all. And what I found was great. The biggest benefit for me was how much easier it was now to edit because every photo wasn't, half a stop brighter. the color temperature wasn't a little bit different. It was all consistent. And that meant that I can just take the same edits across the series of images. And now they were done. So not only would it speed up, the shoot time, because I wasn't trying to figure out, oh no, like how do, how do I overcompensate for this, what this mode is doing? But now my editing, was much faster as well. And then you can get the photos to the clients faster. and it just removes a lot of the stress instead of what most people think is that it would add stress. did you find the same? Oh, yeah.

David Enloe: 14:01

Yeah. What you just said made me think of the other half of probably that answer, which is film photography. So all the while I was like more digital in my business, 100 percent digital in my business, I was still shooting film photos. Like most of my photos of my family are on film and I think, so I would get those rolls of film back. Those cameras are all manual. They have a little light meter in them, but they're all manual. Can't see what you're shooting, obviously. I'd get those film photos back and most of them were pretty good. I was like, man, I. If I can do it on film, like, this can't be that hard on digital.

Raymond Hatfield: 14:33

So, let's move on now to, after high school. you have to make a decision, right? what are you gonna do with your life? How are you going to make money? You said that photography didn't feel like a career path for you in the early days. So what did you do?

David Enloe: 14:48

Yeah, I did all kinds of weird, not weird stuff, but seemingly weird stuff. I thought I would be a professional surfer, but realized pretty quickly I wasn't going to be a professional surfer. But I went to school in a place I could surf, I got an engineering degree. I was like pre medical school. I almost became an architect. So there was like a little artistic zone in there. Jeez. I finally just settled on an, an environmental engineering degree, which I, years before I finished, or at least a year before I finished, decided I would never be an engineer. But finished that degree with the prerequisites to go to medical school, applied to medical school, literally put down a deposit at a medical school, ditched medical school. I guess there's a few year break in there where I like lived in the mountains and did a lot of skiing or whatever. and then I became a pilot. That's honestly the thing I've. as a career. I flew airplanes and helicopters for like eight years. So big rollercoaster. And then I stopped flying entirely. I was part time photography and flying for a while, but I stopped flying entirely a year and a half, year and three quarters ago.

Raymond Hatfield: 15:49

not even going to get into that because that's such a wild ride, but like, uh, I just, there's no way we can cover all that. So, uh, you're at this point where you're like, well, I've done all these things. I have several degrees. I have discernible talents, to be able to take people places and fly these, these machines. At some point you think to yourself, you know what, I'm going to go back to that camera. Talk to me about that decision, because these are seemingly, from the outside, you're like, Oh, engineering, medical school pilot, these are like, distinguished careers. And then you're like, guy with a camera. How does that decision come

David Enloe: 16:23

about? I think there's like the the undercurrent and the roots that are there that we can talk about. And I'm, you know, I've already kind of talked about like, the photography thing has always been there, you know, even those years where I was a pilot. Like I always had a camera around us flying around to different parts of the country, often an old film camera. At some point I inherited my grandfather's old film camera. I can't even remember anymore, but I had cameras and I was taking photos and it was always there. In many ways it was actually like the most benign, thoughtful decision I've made career wise. I was hitting a point in aviation where I realized it was like completely the wrong fit. And I kind of figured out as I went through aviation and engineering and all those other things, like the things that were not working for me, that were not going to work for my family. we were going through a lot of stuff personally in our lives, like family health wise and stuff like that. It was COVID, was about the time I was like really thinking about jumping ship. And I was looking for something that like met certain criteria, like, I don't want to be away from home. I don't, the risk of flying in the jobs I was doing, I was doing kind of risky flying jobs. So I, I sat down with all these things and it was about the time my wife also went from being a resident to an actual physician and we're talking about having a kid So it was a lot of very practical things Where, in photography, it was there as an idea, as something that I obviously loved to do. And people had even paid me little bits in the past to do pieces of. So I think it was very practical in that sense. And then I started to do a little bit of homework, I dove in, and I ran the business, or started the business alongside while I was still flying, and I was seeing the potential in terms of it working for me lifestyle wise, and us as a family, and also I was really enjoying it, so I kind of just went for it. I think it was almost like life circumstances like pushed me to finally realize you need to be doing something you love, you know, flying for me was like this thing that. I was putting a lot of soul into, you know, it was dangerous, I was away from home a lot, all those things, and I didn't really love it that much, and it was like, I need to be doing something that's either really easy and pays really well, or that I really really love. And I don't know what I would do that pays really well, so.

Raymond Hatfield: 18:46

Thank you for, for sharing that because, I'm sure that there are many other listeners who are probably in a similar position where they have something that is like making the money, but they're just not enjoying it the way that maybe they thought that they would or just at all and they they want to figure out like well what do I do next? How do I make that transition? But like surely I know that you said that you just kind of jumped into it, but there had to have been nervousness some trepidation like what were those conversations like or or was the transition over a longer period that you were able to test it out?

David Enloe: 19:22

It was over somewhat of a longer period. I think I ran pretty bad with dates. It's 2024 now. I, I ran my business in, some very fledgling form alongside while still doing my other job, for at least a couple of years, if not closer to three, two and a half years maybe. So, it did give me a chance to test the waters but what I will say is even by the end of that two years, my business was not in a viable state. So when I jumped ship and was like, I'm going full time in photography, there was a lot of fear and trepidation because I was doing something that like had become so kind of toxic in our lives. Like it just wasn't okay anymore. There were all these extenuating circumstances where it was like, this is not working. And this was all I had lined up so I was like, I'm just gonna I'm gonna go for it and I'm gonna go full on I had a really deep belief that it could work, but I also, think that I was scared because I had had that belief from the beginning, and it had been a few years, and I had really come to realize how hard it is, at least in a big city like I'm in, a saturated market, how hard it is to kind of make a name for yourself and to make it happen. So I was certainly nervous. But I also think that kind of as soon as I, I transitioned, I was a lot happier, like immediately. It was much better in terms of lifestyle. And as soon as I started putting kind of my heart and soul into it, we could see that it was working. kind of eased that transition.

Raymond Hatfield: 20:58

So the, starting a business, growing a business, running a business, as you said. You found out that it's, it's very difficult, What were the most difficult aspects of it and, what did you do about it?

David Enloe: 21:10

I think the, the simplest, most there, there's the, like the artistic side and they're like creating beautiful photos and a good product. And that's challenging. I think that challenge is really different for everyone though. So so I grew up on a small island in the Caribbean. Where if I did anything, it was visible, right? Like I was a big fish in a small pond, I guess is the best way to put it. I'm now in San Francisco. We moved here. We knew no one. I started my business right before the pandemic. in front of clients is like the hardest thing possible so so getting people to see my work and see what I have to offer. That was the challenge so the one that very very tangible thing that I did and I think is like I hope to make a class on it someday because it was so helpful for me was my pop up photo studio. So, huh? Um, there was this like, they call it a farmer's market, like a farmer's craft street fair market that that started right at the beginning of COVID, right when I started my business, just a few blocks from our house and it turned it into a really vibrant market pretty quickly. And for, I don't know where the idea came from, but I was like, I'm going to pop up at that market, once a month or whatever. And I do you can see my frames in the background. I build photo frames as well. So that was handy. I was like, I'll show those I'll show my photos in those frames. And that's a good talking point. But I'm also going to in the back of my little 10 by 10 10 put up some studio lights. I had no idea how to use studio lights, but I thought it would look cool studio lights. And a backdrop and I'm gonna do a little pop up photo studio totally free, I'll call it a family photo booth I'll get people's email addresses and I literally I'm not sure I knew about email lists at that point but somehow I was like, I'm gonna get their email addresses and someday I'll have an email list and it worked I I booked my first clients my whole first batch of clients from that pop up photo studio I built my email list and to this day I see people around town. I'm like I, there's, I recognize you, were you in the pop up photo studio and their kids are like two years older now? That face to face interaction just brings people back time and again. So that was the thing that really helped my business. It sparked it for sure.

Raymond Hatfield: 23:25

We're definitely going to dive deeper into that. Yeah. That sounds fascinating. But I do want to also talk about, because one of the reasons why you're here today that I was like, this is really interesting, is that you have also decided to quit social media. And I think for so many new photographers, we're told that like, you have to get in front of people, as you said. I mean, there's no ifs, ands, or buts. Digital, no digital. We have to get in front of people for them to know who we are. If we want to be hired. So, the easiest way that people say, to do that is through social media. It doesn't cost anything on a monthly basis. so the cost is low. You can just share things. You can connect with people. It sounds great. It sounds wonderful. So, now we're at the point to where there's no more phone books for you to find a photographer in. That seems like the place to get in front of people. And you've decided to Say no, thanks. And that is a scary thing, especially so new into your journey in the business of photography. So talk to me about, why you're making that decision.

David Enloe: 24:29

I'll start like kind of the my little journey with social media because I think it's important. and this is all about the time before I was a photographer. I had no social media. I'm not apparently hardwired the algorithms do have a pull on me, but like it's it doesn't fit me perfectly It doesn't work that well on me. So before I had no interest in Instagram Facebook I just like I would even I even open some Facebook accounts to try and stay in touch with people. I just never looked at them. No interest. I started my photography business about the time I started listening to your podcast. And I, I talked to a small group of people, friends, family, extended friends that are, were photographers just trying to get a little bit of information, a little bit of handle. How do you get your stuff in front of people and all that? And yeah, everybody's like, well, the easiest answer is social media. And I even, I remember resisting it then and people like, no, you have to, you have to. You have to do it. Okay. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I want this to work. So I did my Facebook business account, which I never really put much into, but Instagram, I put, some energy into Instagram for sure. The reality for me is it never did much for me. It was there. Some people saw it, but I think one because I jumped into Instagram well after, you know, I think a lot of the really successful people on Instagram started like, I don't know what, eight, six, ten years ago. Sure. And they really grew that following. So I was past that wave. And I wasn't, I'm not great on social media. I don't think I come across that well on social media. And the reason, or at least like the evidence of that, or the, the reason I should have known is probably that I don't like social media. I didn't like it before. So, if you can't convince yourself you like something, you're never going to convince other people that you like it. And if you don't like what you're doing, people don't want to listen. So it's not surprising that social media didn't work for me. And that's not to say that it never did anything for me, but the amount of energy that I was putting into less posting, more thinking about posting, the like internal space that that was taking up. And that's, this is a totally a personality thing, right? Like some people are not like that. I know, I think you had Rachel Larson Weaver on the podcast, is that right? People can go back and listen to her podcast. She's great. Please, please go listen to her podcast. I did a little mentorship with her and we were talking about it and she just could not, like, she couldn't understand. She is incredible on social media. She lives this incredibly busy life. She does so many things. She's an awesome artist and mother and all this and she's posting all this great stuff to social media all the time she does not think about it. Until the moment she's doing it. She's just going around all day and then she's like Boom. Quick edit. Post. A couple words. And she moves on mentally. I can't do that. I'm going around and I'm like, looking at my daughter doing this and I'm like, oh, would that go well on Instagram? Like that, I don't want to have that in my brain. That's too much space for what I was getting out of it certainly. I think that's that's where it comes from, largely. And we can get, like, there's some like philosophical gripes with these big companies that you know, their algorithms and their CEOs and their data engineers are like kind of really driving the way that our culture and our art goes and shifts. And I don't know how I feel about that. But from a very personal standpoint, that's why I wanted to regain that, that personal space. So yeah, my Instagram is still open. I was too scared to shut it down completely just because I think from a, like a, an SEO Google perspective, some people have told me that's, that can be a really bad thing. I did shut down my Facebook business account. And yeah, that's that. It's been going really well.

Raymond Hatfield: 28:02

So, I definitely have questions as far as like, what is it that you're going to do instead? But I do want to validate exactly what you said, because I've never heard anybody explain it like that. And yet I feel the exact same way. I have a Facebook, And I think that, there was so much push to like, need to be on social that for me, I really tried for so long to like, well what are the strategies? What are the tactics? What are all the things that I can do to make sure that my time spent on this thing that I actually don't really like is fruitful? But then what I found is that, in the same way as you, is that like, I looked at everything from a very strategic, how can I use this to grow my audience, to do whatever it is that I needed to do, that I wasn't, living my life and I absolutely hated it. And, I think that that's why over the past number of years, especially, I mean, the, the catalyst for me to actually get off these platforms was COVID just with how much divisiveness there was. I just couldn't take it personally. So I,

David Enloe: 29:06

are you off of social media largely

Raymond Hatfield: 29:08

yourself? My password to my Facebook. Um, long story short, I haven't been able to log into Facebook in a while, which means that I haven't been able to log into Instagram for a while. And I just like, I tried it twice, And I was like, well, I guess this isn't going to work. And then I just completely let go. I was just like, well, whatever. And that's it. So now

David Enloe: 29:29

that's all it takes. You, uh, you don't need any other answers. Exactly.

Raymond Hatfield: 29:32

And that's what I thought. Like, I didn't have this deep, like, Oh no, like how am I going to get in? How am I, like, what am I going to do now? And I think that told me everything that I needed to know to be like, I'm fine. I like, I don't, I don't need to be about it. But my wife is 100 percent that kind of person who she'll just be going about her life and think, Oh, this is cute. And then just post it and in my head, it drives me crazy because I think like, there's no strategy behind this. Like, what are you doing? Like, how do you need to use this as a growth tool? And then I get back in that mindset and it's difficult. So I commend you for, recognizing that within yourself and taking the steps to, step back. But the question does remain, like, how are we going to get in front of people who can potentially hire us? Because that's a business's job. So, before we get into the, the pop up photo shoots, what are you doing to ensure that you do get in front of new potential clients?

David Enloe: 30:24

Yeah. someone early, early on, and I didn't take this advice early on, but someone, you know, years ago I remember saying, we're talking about websites and they were like, you have a studio? Do you have a storefront? I was like, no, I don't have a storefront. They're like, okay, your website is your storefront, your studio. Thirty years ago, if you were going to have a photography business, you probably needed a storefront or a studio. Very likely, or a lot of people did. Think about how much time and energy they put into their store and their studio and curating the experience and what the front look, you know, all of it. And it was not easy. It didn't happen fast. It took them months, maybe years to build that. That's your website. Put that much energy into your website. And I was like, I didn't do it, but I have since. And I, I'm so happy because I love my website. It's not perfect. All the time I go on there, I'm like, Oh, that doesn't, you know, but I have the ability to fix it because I built it myself. And I really try to, I tried to, and I try to every year when I update it, put myself and my soul and my art and the experience into my website. And along with that, because I also started, working with an SEO group, I think you've Interviewed Cory Potter and feel your photos as well. Yeah, I think I heard about him through you if I had to guess probably Rachel Larson Weaver, too. But anyway, really come to know those guys and respect them and a part of their like kind of lifetime membership I'm so I'm always just like interacting and they've taught me that creating a quality website a good experience and writing really like meaningful content, whether it's just like from the heart or content that's really truly helpful, you know I write a lot about locations here in San Francisco because I like I said before I love being outside and I love seeing the way light hits certain things at certain times a day. So I write about that and It feels good. It feels like the kind of energy that I would put into my store, my studio, and it's really good for SEO. So that's a big part of my, quote unquote marketing at this point. And I enjoy it, as you can tell, which is great. And it's finally working. It wasn't, it wasn't really working up until, uh, three or four months ago, but all of a sudden it's working, which is great. The other big side is my email list. And that comes largely from the pop up photo studio. And a few other avenues, but a lot of that energy that I put into social media before I try to put that into my email list. I send out basically weekly emails, which is a lot for, a family photographer, but they're not just salesy. Here was my last session emails. They're like, they can be a lot of things, but they can be kind of. You know, my last one was like a sort of comical take on how I've, embraced the productivity of contact naps. We have an eight month old daughter. She sucks at napping. I used to hate nap time because I would like fight it and try to get her in the crib and finally I've just given up. She sleeps right here and I sit in the rocking chair and I have this way that I hold my laptop and I get like an hour and a half of writing done in pure silence. It's amazing. And so I wrote an email about that. And people I'm talking to parents mostly and they enjoy that stuff. So I think anyway, to, you know, put that in a nutshell, those are the two avenues. SEO email list. Those are my big focuses at this

Raymond Hatfield: 33:34

point. Wow. So many directions I want to go. With the emails that you're sending out. you said that they're not really like salesy or anything. So the whole goal for you is just to stay top of mind, or is there anything else? Like, is there a deeper strategy behind that as well?

David Enloe: 33:50

Yeah, that's a great question, and it's one that I'm still working on for sure. It's on my short list to, like, take some classes or do some deep dives into email marketing and get a little bit more of a strategy. And ironically, it's very similar, I think, to social media strategy. Obviously, it's a different, different platform, different way of reaching your audience. But I think the first thing you said, simply keeping me top of mind is absolutely important. I think the other side and it, it's kind of the same thing, but my price point is pretty high, especially like nationwide. My price point for my work is pretty high. It's a little more common here in San Francisco because cost of living is absolutely insane. But I need to, people need to know that I'm offering more than just photos, they need to know that it's going to be a good experience with someone that they really like someone who's going to like, create a pathway to go for make it really easy for them to go from totally confused and busy family schedule, and they don't know, have no idea how this works to a beautiful set of photos and some printed artwork, really easily. They'll have someone to kind of collaborate with along the way and guide, guide the way. So I need to kind of tell that story. I also need them to know or to feel or to believe or whatever it is that I'm really making quality artwork. I'm not just, getting in close and snapping a hundred family photos of you guys giggling together. I do that too. But like, I'm also working to be constantly like getting myself educated and all these things to be an artist as well. And I feel like cause what I need to, I need to provide that value for people at the price point that I offer my services. It's also what I want to do. I want to create beautiful environmental portraits that connect people and places and all that stuff. So for me, I think like someone who's really good on social media could do that really well on social media. I was just, bumbling. I was struggling with that with email for whatever reason. The longer form I can like, I know who I'm writing my emails to, it goes straight to their inbox and I can really put some heart and soul into that. And I know, you know, I've got a thousand people on my email list. I know that 60 percent of them, 50 percent of them open my emails. That's a lot of people compared to what, who was looking at my social media. What, I'd get like 27 likes? And those are people who are just like, scroll like, scroll, scroll, scroll, like. Yeah, that's what I'm doing with my email list. I want people to know who I am and what I'm trying to create with my business, what I stand for, what I'm striving to give them. And that's the way that I think I can do it best.

Raymond Hatfield: 36:30

Yeah. For those listening, I'll give you some insight as well. the open rates on emails, like Yeah, it's 50%, 60%, but of a thousand people, let's say that you get 500 people to at least look at your email, read your email, whereas, for the podcast group that we had on Facebook, which groups would historically get better engagement than just regular posts, that you would post, on like a business page. And we had at 1. 6 thousand people in the Facebook group and on average the reach for a post would be like 27 people, and that's incredibly low. So if you were to just have 500 people on your list, a hundred people on your list, and 50 percent of them are looking at your emails, that's you can make so much more of an impact, through email. And I know sometimes it doesn't feel that way because we get so many emails a day. But I promise you, like, if it's somebody who you can connect with in more of a long form way. especially because we're in it for sales for in photography, right? Like I'm not going to beat around the bush. We love the craft, but a business has to stay afloat and you have to make some money. So email is the place for that. And that's something that I need to get better about as well, I too feel the same way as you, it's like just having that longer form, you know, just like a draft. It feels more, like you can take some time to digest your thoughts and put it in a way that, people will be able to consume better. Whereas, it always, to me, on social, and maybe it felt the same for you, is that it felt like I have to share what I'm immediately feeling right now, and I don't really have to edit it. It's like, just get it out of my head, even if it wasn't the most efficient way of doing that, of telling a story. And that's one of the reasons why I've really enjoyed using email, over the past few years as well. Taking one step back from that to be able to send people emails, you have to get them on your email list. So, let's talk about this pop up, that you're doing. I'd love to hear about the setup of this pop up a little bit more if you want to talk about that, but, I can hear a lot of listeners right now thinking, wait a second, if you're giving the photo away for free, how do you turn this into a session? So, can you talk to me about that? How does that work? Yeah, it's a great question.

David Enloe: 38:43

And it's funny enough. It's a question that like people ask me in the pop up photo studio, like one in 20 will be like, what's the catch?

Raymond Hatfield: 38:50

Why? Why would you pay me money? I would be asking that, yeah.

David Enloe: 38:53

And I'm super straightforward with them. I'm like, Look, I get to meet you. Hopefully you like me. If you don't, cool, but I'm gonna get your email address. I'm gonna be in your inbox. If you like what I do, if you want family photos, like, you might hire me. Simple as that. I'm here to meet you in person people usually laugh and they're like, oh, that's great. That's cool. And they love it. And often then they do hire me, you know? so How do I turn that into, money in sessions? I, you can sell prints from the photos you deliver at this pop up photo studio. And I offer that because I think people, some people just want that, but I don't make any money off of it. It's probably more work than it's worth, if anything. I've also coached a few photographers, trying to do this same thing and who have been charging money for the photos and it, it doesn't work as well. You might make a few dollars, but you're not gonna make money. You're not, you're never gonna touch the effort. Sure. That goes into this Papa Photo studio, I promise you. It's a lot of work. You have to be doing it for bigger reasons, and if you're doing it for bigger reasons than to make a hundred dollars or $200 that day. Then forget the 100 or the 200, offer it for free, because people are, that catches people's eye. They're like, dang, this is free, what the heck, and they'll, they'll ask me that question. which means that it's catching their eye. And people show up to these events, at least the one that I'm at, well, the one I'm talking about right now. Farmer's market. They're not ready for family photos. So when I'm like, don't worry, it's free, you look farmer's market fabulous. Come on in, you don't, you know, you're not, you're not ready for this. It's 830 am and you've got green onions sticking out of your grocery bag. But, because it's free, they're like, yeah, what the heck? Let's do it. So the way it works, they come, I've got a little table up front, just like any, pop up 10 at a farmer's market. And then you kind of step around the table and there's, yeah, there's a one or two off camera flashes with an umbrella, just a little setup, which I've learned to use better at first. It was literally I want to make this feel like an event. I have super simple backdrop. I'm not like kind of photographer that has, holiday backdrops I might do a little something. I have my photo frame sometimes i'll have an empty frame that they can like hold and hang out But really I get families in there. I get them close together. I try to make them laugh. I'm just talking with them interacting we all live in the same neighborhood most of the time So we're just chatting and try to make them laugh and the kids comfortable and i'm getting in close and getting that kind of photo just like candid little family interactions, and then they sign up either through, I use a flow desk, my email list, you gotta have a way for them to sign up, where they give you their name, their email address, and then either it's going to be one big shared gallery, or sometimes I will have them like hold up a card with a number and put that number in the signup form so I can assign their photos to them, and I'll do individual galleries, so there's a few different ways, but bottom line, I need to be able to get their photos to them, and I need their email address. And when they sign up, they immediately get an email that explains the process, tells them they're on my email list, you know, welcome, this is what you can expect from me. And then I deliver the galleries, and I always try to do that like a day or two later, pretty quickly. And it's usually between, I'd say, three and ten photos. And I, I just don't stress about it too much. If I didn't get any good ones of a family, I just don't stress about it. I just deliver them, it was free, it's no stress, it's fun. And that's that.

Raymond Hatfield: 42:12

So they can download the photos for free, right there. It's, it's theirs. They can have it.

David Enloe: 42:17

Yeah, I've actually started doing, like, the, like, on Pick Time, the gallery I use, they can use the, like, you know, social media size, web size downloads, and then I, I sell the bigger ones for a few bucks. It's still free, they can put them on their phones, but if they want to go print them, if they really like their photos, then for, you know, like 10 or 20 bucks, they can buy a high resolution. That still feels free, and I make, offset my costs just a little bit.

Raymond Hatfield: 42:40

is such a cool idea because in a saturated market like San Francisco There's photographers everywhere. Everybody knows multiple photographers even here in a smaller market like Indianapolis. I know multiple photographers They could all do multiple different things, but I've never been to a farmer's market where somebody was doing a photo shoot there. And that is so cool because one of the big things is that you just get to learn about somebody's personality and who it is that they are. And when it's scary enough already to get in front of somebody's camera, you're breaking down that barrier because now it's not, Oh, I'm going to feel uncomfortable and I paid, X amount to be in front of this person's camera. It's, Oh, it doesn't cost me anything. Oh, and David's a pretty cool guy. So, you know what? Next time we think about getting family photos. I'm going to think of David. So, this is awesome. I got a million more questions, but, since we are at the end of our time, I was going to ask, where can we find you online? it's not going to be a Facebook or an Instagram link, I'm, I'm assuming. So, let us know where is going to be the best place to indeed find you.

David Enloe: 43:40

Yeah. My website is definitely the best spot and I'm sure you'll link it. But it is the enlo creative, like the word the T H E and then enlo, E N L O E creative. TheEndlowCreative. com, And the best way to stay in touch with me, because I'm, yeah, I'm not posting on social media, is my email list, for sure. If you just scroll all the way down on my homepage, you will find an email, you know, join my email list, sign up law simple as that and that's that's how I stay in touch with people.

Raymond Hatfield: 44:10

I got one last question for you here just because we talked about so much today many different facets of this business marketing essentially. What is something that you would want listeners to consider about social media and what it is that they're doing?

David Enloe: 44:25

There are way too many places to put your energy. As a solopreneur, a small, a small business, you cannot reach people well in all of the channels. would argue you can only reach people well in a few select ways. Those need to be the ways that you love and enjoy. Probably the ways where you consume, what you consider, maybe not just quantity of content, but quality content, where you get the most inspired, the things that you are the most excited to open up. Like, I love going into my inbox and seeing Rachel Larson Weaver's newsletter. Like, I save that thing and I'm like, man, I can't wait until I have ten minutes to like, really, really read that. So. That works for me. I love that. I love people's websites and how those can kind of take you through a journey, especially when they're authentic and they do a good job of it. So that's where I put my energy. I think you need to find the things for you that have that gravitational pull. And if that's social media, By all means, if it's working for you and you feel excited about it, it brings you joy. You'll probably do a really good job with it. So I think you have to dig a little deeper and ask yourself and then be honest with the fact that, and it took me a long time to do this. Yeah, I cannot do email well and my website. And do social media well enough, like it's, it's pointless. It's a waste of time. So you have to, you have to narrow those things down and it's going to serve you well. You're going to be happier. You know, my business improved substantially as soon as I quit social media. it was like a ray of sunlight from above. It truly was. So listen to your heart.

Raymond Hatfield: 46:06

First, huge thank you to David for coming on the show and sharing everything he did. It's been awesome to see your success and see your growth. So my three takeaways from this episode, the first one is to embrace unconventional marketing. Remember the photographers still had, to earn business before the internet. Meaning that there's so many ways to still get in front of potential clients if you really want to, if you have an idea, like try it out. The worst that happens is that it doesn't work, and then you just don't do it again. Second takeaway is to focus on quality blog content. You know, your website really is like your home on the internet. Because again, unlike social, it can't go down unless you want it to go down. Your blog can not only attract potential clients, but it also gives you a bit more personality to to those potential clients as well. So it's a win-win. And lastly, the importance of starting to grow an email list. Like sure, we all say that, you know, we don't want any more emails or that we never read our emails, but the numbers show otherwise the numbers show that email is far more effective than social media in terms of reach percentage and engagement. And again, if social goes out or it goes a hundred percent pay to play. You still have a way to contact and connect with your potential clients through email. So think about it. That is it for today. Remember, until next time, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.

David Enloe: 47:37

Thank you for listening to The Beginner Photography podcast. Keep shooting and we'll see you next week.