The Beginner Photography Podcast
The Beginner Photography Podcast
The Art of Photo Curation with Michael Rababy
#451 In today's episode of the podcast, I chat with photography Michael Rababy about curating images to create a compelling collection for his book California Love: A Visual Mixtape. He will walk you through honing your unique photographic voice, and questioning the impact of social media on your photography journey. You'll gain insight into creating meaningful art, developing a personal photographic voice, and navigating the complexities of the modern photography landscape.
THE BIG IDEAS
- Developing Your Photographic Voice: Explore the significance of creating a unique photographic voice.
- The Impact of Art on Your Life: Understand how life experiences and art influence your creative process.
- Curating Compelling Visual Content: Discover the process of curating a powerful collection of photographs.
- Navigating the Modern Photography Landscape: Gain insights into the challenges and opportunities in the current photography environment.
Resources:
Michaels book, California Love: A Visual Mixtape
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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!
Photography is interesting, and Chuck Close, he talks about photography being the easiest art to pick up, but the hardest to develop a voice in. Probably, especially now, because it's so ubiquitous, it's so everywhere, everyone has a camera in their pocket. So to actually have a voice in photography, now, I think to get to that point is the goal as a photographer, to be able to have someone say, Oh, I know that that's yours. I know that that's your piece. Now with post production with Lightroom and Photoshop, you could do a lot of stuff in post, you could have a certain style, but sometimes that's just kind of putting a style over your image. but that is the goal. I think that is the goal. And the answer is you just got to keep doing it, pick up the camera, go out as much as you can, create as much as you can, edit as much as you can. the work that you do culminates into Hey,
Raymond Hatfield:welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast brought to you by CloudSpot, the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. I'm your host, Raymond Hadfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images and compelling stories so that you can start to do the same. In today's interview, we are chatting with photographer and curator, Michael Rabebe about how to build a captivating collection of images. Today is an episode from the BPP Vault where we revisit our treasure trove of interviews to offer both new and long time listeners a chance to uncover the powerful insights and practical tips to enhance your photography skills. So whether you're listening with fresh ears or a new perspective, there's always something new to learn. So normally when I interview a photographer, we talk about their photography, and while we do touch upon Michael's photography, in the beginning of this interview, he has had to develop a skill that most of us don't focus on getting better at, and that's the curation process. So Michael put together a book called California Love, which is full of photographs from California based photographers. He had to put together a collection where The subject matter and visual style would change from page to page, you know, that is tough. So if you struggle with, culling your images, meaning picking out your images, or, curating your own into some sort of cohesive, project or story, you're going to get a lot out of this one. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview. Michael, I just want to start off nice and easy. I want to know, when did you first know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?
Michael Rababy:Thanks so much for having me. Um, yeah, you know, it's funny. have a vision of being super young and seeing myself like, this is, like so young just because you don't really know what you're going to do when you get older. And I had this vision to be directing for some reason. I have no idea where that came from. I was like a kid in Ohio but I watched a lot of TV. well, I love Sesame street probably because I lived in a suburb and I was somehow drawn to the urban aesthetic, I think, and like those trash cans and those Brownstone stoops, somehow I was always drawn to that. So I just was obsessed with Sesame Street. And I was like, why doesn't my neighborhood look like this? And now I live in a city of Los Angeles. funny cause now that I'm older, I think that if you look back in your life and the things that you did when you were like sixth to eighth grade, the things that you obsessed over, I think that's an early seed of. What will probably make you happy for the rest of your life and what you'll want to do. And I've always been like a collector and I was always obsessed with movies and like watching scenes over and over again. I had like a VHS and I grew up in North County, San Diego. Well, I was in Ohio until I was 10. then I pretty much grew up in San Diego. You'd think, Oh, Beautiful weather, you'd be at the beach, but no, I was in my bedroom watching movies all day. Like that's what I was obsessed with. And then I got into making, videos and film, video production when I was like starting in high school and got into editing and, shooting video. And, then I really got into photography more seriously when I was in college, I had the opportunity to study abroad in Florence, Italy for a semester, my sophomore year. And. took a photography class and I had this incredible teacher who just really inspired me and not just him, but also just being in Florence, Italy, like everything was just so picturesque and just visually stunning. I mean, you could take a walk down an alley and take a photo of a trash can. It looks like, high art, you know, just everything is just so beautiful when you're there. And also I was very inspired, being, away from America and for the first time, really. And, you I had this great instructor who, funny enough, his name is James White, and he's very successful photographer. He did like the Twilight movies, and he does like magazine covers, and just was really obsessed, and this is, film, and this is being in a dark room, and this is when, you're on a student budget, so you're buying large spools of film, and You're making film roles yourself, so I'm packing as much film as I can. Cause you know, if you buy film commercially, it's 24, 36, usually exposures, but I would try to jam like 40, 50 exposures in, in see as much as I can. So when you go out, you don't have to like replace the role as much. I don't know if he was allowed to, but he gave me the keys of the dark room. So I would just do these all nighters where you're just totally geeking out over burning and dodging and making the perfect print from your negative. and just spending, and then like, you'd come out, you know, this heroic moment that the sun is rising and, got the right shit. You've got the right print, the silver gelatin print. now it's much different. Now I just spent all this time on my computer.
Raymond Hatfield:Right.
Michael Rababy:In light room. I love digital. I'm not complaining at all,
Raymond Hatfield:when you went to study abroad and you brought your camera with you, interested in that, That learning phase because I feel like lots of new photographers look at photography is like wow if I just had a great camera I'd be able to capture all these great moments, and then they get the camera and then realize that it's a pretty technical Thing you know so when you first started in photography were there any technical struggles that you had to overcome?
Michael Rababy:You know, it's interesting. And I read somewhere that like, obsession over the tools is more of a male thing. Like I heard, I had read that like female photographers aren't as like obsessed with cameras. It's more of like a male thing. And there are people that really get obsessed over the tool and it doesn't necessarily translate to their work being any better. I've never really been much of a, techie person or, I I guess for me, I respect the craft and I learn as much as the craft that I can to express what I want to express what's in my head or what I want to document. but really the camera is just a tool and now you could take great photos again with your cell phone, you know, and you could take great cameras with the plastic Holga camera, which you could get for under 50. And, I think it's really, for me, I've always been gravitated more towards the art, I guess, than the craft. Thanks. I think you need to have both and I think the craft, I obviously you have a huge respect for the craft, but I think if, you look at one print that's just really, really well crafted, but boring, I'd rather look at something that's maybe is a kind of a little sloppy, but just really packs an emotional punch in my opinion.
Raymond Hatfield:I like that. But what about like those early days when, obviously you're shooting on film or were you shooting point and shoot or were these like full manual cameras?
Michael Rababy:Yeah, no, I had a Nikon. I've always kind of gravitated towards Nikon. It might be the font of the Nikon logo. It might be I had friends that had Nikon. when the full frame cameras first came out and I switched from film, I bought the Canon 5D Mark I, and then I realized I think it did not have a flash built in, which I didn't realize. so then luckily the Nikon, I think it was the 200 came out. So then I switched the 200 and then I got the 700, I think. And now I have the 800, but I'm really bummed that Nikon and a lot of. The pro cameras, they don't give you the built in flash anymore. And the reason why I like the built in flash is not so much at night, but like during the day I like to shoot like into the sun and I like an extra fill to get like, detail in the face or to really catch eyes, or like, you're shooting into something that's like, has some shadow and you want just like a little bit, to play with. so to finish the thought, so I had a Nikon, was not a point and shoot. it was manual, but it had, the meter built in. It wasn't like the really old ones where it was completely manual. It had, it did have like a program setting, I believe, but it's great. But it's like, when you're starting out driving, it's great to have a stick shift. you want to be able to, really understand the machine, So it's good to start manual, understand, aperture, shutter speed, the basics. then you could go from there.
Raymond Hatfield:Were you always. Very proficient in shooting manual, or was there a steep learning curve for you?
Michael Rababy:No, no. I mean, the type of photography that I do, it's, I don't really have like a lot of time. I see something that's happening and I just want to get it right away. So I'm shameless, about just keeping it in program mode. I mean, there are people who like think in terms of shutter of aperture all the time and like, they'll walk into a room and they'll adjust their camera to whatever the lighting is at the time. I don't have that. I'm not that autistic,
Raymond Hatfield:right?
Michael Rababy:I don't have that. Yeah. my mind's on other things.
Raymond Hatfield:Yeah.
Michael Rababy:so yeah, I'm shameless. I'm shamelessly shoot in program mode. and then, I'll see if I got it. but one, one thing I do now is I'm able to control where my exposure is, where in the frame want to set the exposure to. So I'll do that. so I'm telling the camera, that I want this to be, I want to expose for this part of the frame. So that, that's one thing that I do constantly. I have a setting on my camera that I could do that.
Raymond Hatfield:I know that, you today do, as you said earlier, you curate, you, you look at a lot of photos. And I want to talk about your book that I got here, California Love, a visual And this thing is, first of all, massive. and second of all, there's a lot of photos that. I guess I'll let you talk about the book and kind of where it came from, but there's a lot of photos in this book. And what I want to get to eventually here is how you came up with all the photos in here. Like what makes one photo better than, another, because it's a collection of photos from many different photographers. So that must've been a huge job. So before we get into that, tell me and tell the listeners about the book. Where did the idea come from?
Michael Rababy:Yeah, the California love of visual mixtape is my COVID baby. it came from an exhibit, an annual exhibit that I curate at the Hive Gallery and Studios, downtown Los Angeles. I've been doing it. This is my eighth year. I changed the theme every year. we've done like a fine art theme. We've done street photography. We've done naked versus nude. One year we had, analog versus digital alternative process one year. And then for 2020, I'm pretty political. I knew that. It was gonna be a really contentious election year after four years of the last administration, and I wanted to do something addressing the election. But I have a lot of friends, so I have friends on both sides. I don't discriminate, politically, I welcome healthy debate and conversation, but I don't take anything personally. So anyways, I wanted to do something addressing politics without being too divisive or political. So I figured the one thing we can't, so we can't really talk about, why your side is bad, so, well, one thing we can do is. So I painted my, in a way, picture of our progressive, almost utopian version of our inclusive nation state of California. So this is kind of like my progressive view of California in a way. it's not just photography, but it's a lot of quotes from writers from California or writers talking about California. And it's 110 photographers from all over California. And it really celebrates California. What makes California unique? What makes California what it is. What my view of what defines California. And so it started as an exhibit in 2020 in March, we had an incredible opening and then COVID hit like days later. So, so suddenly I was like, Oh man, I was, because I do put a lot of work into the shows you a lot of people show up to the opening and then it's up for a month and you're hoping people show up and ideally by work but So that wasn't really happening. So then realized I was gonna be home for a while. So I switched gears and I like doing books. I reached out to photographers who I knew and I reached out to photographers who I didn't know. I put together this book. It's 110 photographers. It's over 600 images. It's 320 pages. And it is a really big meal. And I wanted to make it a big meal because, My first book, American Bachelor 120, 130 some pages. And I had a friend who said, Oh, I saw your book. I went to the bookstore and it was so good. I said, I went through the whole thing, but she didn't buy it. very aware of that. Like if you're doing a book, It's nice to have something that you can't just go through in one sitting. Yeah. You need to take it home. You need to spend some time with it. And also, I think the more time you spend with it too, it packs a more emotional punch to it. It stays with people more. And yeah, I'm very, very proud of it.
Raymond Hatfield:I love a lot of things about your book. And I think I told you in an email that I sent to you that it feels at least having grown up in California, that there's a lot of it that feels very familiar, but also I find What's interesting is that, and I was thinking about this, right before we as photographers tend to photograph the things that we find interesting, or I feel like, photographers love a good juxtaposition, right? We love, a good, I don't know, expensive car, and then on the sidewalk is a homeless man or something, that's a very common photo that you could think of. And when you look through the book, there's a lot of photos that I feel meet that juxtaposition, which is strange because it's like, That's not the everyday California, right? That is something interesting that happened, in that time. So I want to know, like, for the book, what was it that was tying the entire book together outside of, oh, all these photos just happened in California?
Michael Rababy:Yeah, juxtaposition. I mean, that's the history of art, right? I mean, like, the artists have been, doing this forever. Artists, writers, yeah, I mean, so I guess that everything's filtered through my taste and that comes from my life experience and me traveling and me going to museums. Like, I enjoy going to museums. not everybody does. Like when I go some people like their idea of an ideal vacation is to sit on a beach and drink a beer or a margarita and do nothing at all, which good for them. I mean, like you should, Do what makes you happy for 100%. I like more cultural experiences. So I'm always going to museums. I lived in Paris a little while, and I went to museums constantly. I'm always going to galleries. Luckily, I live in Los Angeles, which is possibly the cultural capital of the world. I mean, I and gallery shows all the time. That's, I'm always constantly looking at stuff. I get daily email blasts from like, Lens Scratch, Your Photo Daily, the Eye of Photography. I'm always looking, I'm always discovering new work. I'm always looking at stuff. So that hones my filter. And then the book is a compilation of my years of experience and things that I've seen and things that I gravitate towards and things that I love and eliminating things that I don't like, or things that maybe, are too repetitive, like, Sometimes I'll pass on something. It's not because I don't like it because I already have this other thing that's very similar. And I don't want to put two things that are too similar. So there is an art to creation and I recommend, I think curation and curation and photo editing are so important photographer, not just going out and creating the work, but really honing and sharpening your eye and your taste is extremely important. So yeah, curation is absolutely defined who I am as a photographer, I'd have to say.
Raymond Hatfield:You said that there's 110 photographers in this book, right? Yeah. I want to know, how did the process start? Did you just reach out to these photographers and say, Hey, can you send me four or five photos? Or did you say, Hey, send me all of your photos. I want to pick out your best ones to put in, into this book.
Michael Rababy:I'm pretty good about going through and I'm pretty quick. So I could fly through a lot of images pretty quickly. I wanted everyone to be happy. So it's kind of a negotiation. Like I want the photographer to show what they want to show, but at the same time, I want to, I'm looking at the whole book, like they're not looking at 320 pages, they're looking at just what's in there. So they're just seeing like a small piece of it. Yeah, I mean, with some photographers, it's a negotiation some it's more than others and some are just very open to yeah, whatever you want to put in, go ahead. This is a good lesson for photographers because you could really tell some. And it doesn't even really matter if you're a beginner or even more advanced some people are really good about. deliberately sending images, to me, like a, concise file of images that are ready to go. And some will send me so many images and it's like, why are you sending me four photos of the exact same thing? I mean, that just shows it's almost amateurish and it's, and these are not amateur photographers, So again, photo editing, you have to spend the time photo editing. You have to be able to look and. And working as a commercial photographer does help with this. if you're shooting headshot, I've done headshots for years. And when you're shooting, if you shoot like four roles of someone and they all look fair, if you have like two roles of the same setup, you have to be able to pick which is the best one. And yeah, there are five that are great, but narrow down the fight, like pick one. and it's not perfect. It's completely subjective, but that's a choice. You have to start making those choices and that's going to help you define your work. And so when you have like three shots of like, a car or a bird, like you had to pick what's the best photo it's a challenge and it's not easy, but you got to do it. Yeah. So, yeah, so it's tricky. So some photographers, it was easier to narrow down than others, but at the end of the day, again, it was like, everything in the book I'm happy with.
Raymond Hatfield:just so that I'm, clear here. you would ask photographers for some of their work and then would they choose the photos that would go in the book or they would send you photos? And then you would ultimately choose the ones that go in the book.
Michael Rababy:Yeah, realized I didn't ask you answer your question. so it was kind of a little bit of both. Like I would first tell them what I was doing with the book, and people are a little suspicious or Oh, well, what are you going to do with my images, whatever. So I thought if they knew me, they saw what I did, they've seen my book, then they were cool with it. But I was also reaching out to people who I didn't know and didn't know me. So I had to like tell them who I was and kind of sell them on the project. And, usually I'm not going to approach someone unless I know specifically which images are theirs that I already want to include. So it was mostly me saying, I would like to include these images and then let's talk about any other images that you might want to include.
Raymond Hatfield:So
Michael Rababy:it usually started out that way. and then once LACP came on, which is the Los Angeles center photography, which everyone. listening should consider joining. They have incredible classes, been around forever, founded by Julia Dean, an amazing photographer and educator. And all proceeds for the California book go to the Los Angeles Center of Photography. Once they came on, then we did a call for submissions through LACP. So then people submitted and I selected, but again, it was me. Selecting and then once I selected, then it was a conversation with the photographer to open it up to include possible other submissions that they wanted submit.
Raymond Hatfield:is it safe to say that you saw tens of thousands of images in the curation of your book here?
Michael Rababy:Possibly. Yeah, possibly. So I didn't keep count. Yeah,
Raymond Hatfield:did you say how many photos are in the book over 600? So, how do you make the decision for which photo stands out over the rest? How do you get from 10, 000 to 600? Is there an example maybe of photos you liked but again just didn't fit the book or something of that nature.
Michael Rababy:Yeah. it's funny because like there are professional photographers who had great images, but they were created a few years ago and maybe the original got lost in a hard drive that crashed or they can't find the negative. maybe they just have an image that had a watermark on it. I was surprised that there was a decent amount of those images, which is cool. You know, which happens, in life. yeah, you know, it just really comes down to the process. I've, having been making images for decades, Editing and then curating. I'm pretty clear about what I like. Yeah. I, you know what you like. Okay. but maybe it's not for everybody too. I mean, there, there are other skills that I don't have that other people do. This is just something I've done.
Raymond Hatfield:No, I get that. I get the, you know what you like. And I think that after, shooting professionally for 10 plus years. Like I understand that sometimes there's something about a photo. You don't know what it is. You just like it. And you're going to choose that one and you're going to move on. But I know that a lot of people just getting started, oftentimes one of the most asked questions in the beginner photography podcast, Facebook community is like, Which one is better, A or B, and I'm trying to, I guess, get some, solid information that people can get to on how they can make the decision on their own through how do you make decisions on your own for the photos that I think it's a
Michael Rababy:great question. I think it starts with, happen to be watching this on YouTube. this is part of my photo book collection. I'm obsessed. It used to be vinyl and I started selling off my vinyl. There used to be a wall of vinyl. So now it's, I'm obsessed. I buy like so many and I have a bunch over here that I'm still going through that I just got. So, and I'm going to libraries, I'm going to bookstores constantly. So that is going to help you make choices. Yeah. You just got to keep like looking at stuff. I think that's how you sharpen your eye.
Raymond Hatfield:And just taking note of what it is that you don't like versus what it is that you don't like.
Michael Rababy:Yeah. And I think, and the talking, being around smart people with good taste helps, and you're having conversations about things and you're debating and you're defending what you like, and you're hearing someone else defend what they like, and maybe, you're forming your opinions based on. Not only what you see, but you know, you're getting information from other people. Yeah. I think it's a lifelong process and things evolve too. And things change, I'll be selling, but like, I'll buy a book and I'm really into it. And then maybe 10 years later, I'm thinking, Oh, I'm kind of not so into this now. Like maybe I've moved
Raymond Hatfield:on. That's really interesting. So when it comes to putting together a book, there's something that, you're trying to say, this is your visual mixtape of California. This is what California represents to you, but there's still obviously a business aspect of it for you to think about and stress over. When it comes to creating books, again, this is a world that's pretty foreign to me. Were there any decisions that you had to make about the book strictly in the hopes that it sells over your own, artistic desires?
Michael Rababy:I mean, luckily I think my tastes are fairly commercial board, like not uncommercial, I guess, if that's a word. Yeah, no, I, think in general you, you have to be aware of an audience. if you're making a book and you want it to sell at a bookstore, someone is going to have to want the book to be sold at that store, they're going to have to pick it. if you end up lucky enough to be, to afford a publicist, they're going to have to figure out some way to market it and sell it. So you have to kind of think about marketing. what's interesting about this? Why would someone want to buy it? And books are expensive. if you're a novelist. Or a poet, or if you're a writer, period, you could create books on demand. you could just have the file existing on the cloud and then as someone buys the book, it could be printed and sent directly to them through Amazon or publishing services. There are companies that do that. you can do that with blurb, but the expense is so much higher and you don't have quality control. Like I want to be able to look at the, just to, With the same with the print. I mean, you could get print sold where it'll go directly from a third party to the customer, but I would want to be able to look at it. Plus, you want to sign it. I would want to sign print if I'm buying a print. So for photographers, it's a little tricky for artists, you know, so, Yeah, the expense of making the books, they're heavy, the expense of moving them around, the expense of distribution, it's not cheap. in California, a lot of retails for 50, which is a pretty good value considering other fine art photography books. But you know, a lot of people that that's a big expense for a lot of people. Sure. So you do have to think in terms of, it being commercial enough, it being, desirable to a wide enough audience to justify the cost And just to get it to a wider, just to get it into people's hands.
Raymond Hatfield:Yeah, now with all the time that you've been making books, as you said, you're on your fourth book now. How deep does the vision go before the book is created? We as photographers are taught, like what makes you stand out is the pre visualization process, right? The more that you can visualize the photo in your head before you take it, the better it's going to be. So is it the same with the book? Like, are you thinking in terms of hard and soft cover? Paper types, number of pages, amount of text, like, are all these things planned out before you like really started putting the book together or was it more of an organic process?
Michael Rababy:the designer that I worked with on my first, book, his name is Damon Robinson. He's just brilliant. And we spent a lot of time figuring out the look and the design of the first book. And it was a lot of What I wanted based on my photo collection at the time, I went to a ton of bookstores and I've really, I found this one book by Lee Freelander called Kage. I don't think it's how popular, I haven't really seen around too much, but, the shape of it was perfect. It just fits so perfectly ergonomically in my hand. So I copied that exact size, and I like square format for me because I, tend to shoot both landscape and horizontal orientation. So with a square book, you could fit both in fairly, easily. and you could kind of play with grid patterns and stuff. So you could have more than one page image on a page. And it just works out really well for me. So I figured out a design with America bachelor and I just copied that. so I would recommend just. You don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. Find something that works for you. and once I figured out that, then I'm pretty much using the same template and InDesign for my future books, because it's something that I already, I already kind of did all the work myself with figuring out what's perfect for me. And again, that's in my voice that has to do with all the stuff that I've seen. And. What I like, not everybody likes square. Some people, if you know that you're shooting more landscape or more portrait, if you're doing all portraits, then it might make not, it might not make sense to have a square book, you'd want more of a portrait orientation. So these are all choices that, that are very, very subjective and very specific, to the individual.
Raymond Hatfield:I think that you just like breezed over something that was really important there that was, In photography, we have to create our own visual style and we have to shoot the things that we love in the way that we love them. but you're taking that to another level. Like, I also love books and I want to create books in this style that I love and the way that I like to enjoy them. And then you're merging them together, which. Has to just be a really really fulfilling process to see photos that you love in a format that you love as well that was very cool you said something earlier about? curating you said that you're working with or that you've seen photos from even just like a senior in high school, right? And I think it can be difficult I know who I was as a senior in high school and it was not any sort of you know I wasn't able to create any sort of visual Story, I suppose, out of my head with a camera, but I want to know, when do you think a photographer goes from somebody who's just taking snapshots to an artist?
Michael Rababy:That's a great question. And it's a very, very important question. And the answer is again, it's completely subjective. Some people, from early on, have a really strong voice. And I mean, I think that goes back to, I mean, think of like junior high, there's some kids who are just so funny and just have are so idiosyncratic, and then there are people who maybe develop their voice like a little bit later. and who knows where that comes from, but photography is interesting. And Chuck Close, the artist, I'm paraphrasing and I'm sure I'm gonna, uh, chop it up, but he talks about photography being the easiest art to pick up, but the hardest to develop a voice in. probably, especially now, because it's so ubiquitous, it's so everywhere, everyone has a camera in their pocket, so to actually have a voice in photography, now, is I I think that's really the trick. and I don't know what my voice is. I think my voice has to do with emotion. It has to do with finding, packing some sort of like an emotional punch. Oh, I was very complimented. Cause I, in this exhibit that I have up now at the Hive gallery, I had multiple people come up and they said, oh, I knew exactly which pieces were yours, which is a huge compliment, cause I it's salon style and, It's all it's not all clustered together, I think to get to that point is the I think is the goal as a photographer to be able to have someone say, Oh, I know that that's yours. I know that that's your piece. Now with post production with Lightroom and Photoshop, you could do a lot of stuff in post, you could have a certain style. But sometimes that's just kind of putting a style over your image. I think you could tell when it's something that's more organically created. and the voice comes from a deeper place than just like, something that's covering it. but that is the goal. I think that is the goal. And the answer is keep doing it. You just got to keep doing it, pick up the camera, go out as much as you can, captured, shoot, create as much as you can edit as much as you can. the work that you do, culminates into. Can
Raymond Hatfield:you think of a photographer who you would consider has a really strong photographic voice?
Michael Rababy:Yeah, I mean, there are a lot. There's a woman named Wendy Schneider, who I've never met, and, I think she's out of Colorado. And her work is so idiosyncratic, it almost looks like, there's a real painterly element to it. Whenever I see her work, I know exactly, That's hers. There are many, many others. I'm sure I'll think of a bunch and, Ryan, Ryan Schutte, who's in the book. He does these amazing, they're almost like a Jeff wall type. Yes. Very large kind of tableaus, a lot of characters. definitely, they're, they're staged. There's, George Byrne is out of LA. whose work is copied a lot, but he was the first person that I've seen him doing very, very illustrative kind of style. Flipping through the book now, because I'm sure there, I'm sure there are a lot in the book.
Raymond Hatfield:It's funny, I actually had it opened to Ryan's page, right before this interview, and I closed it to bring the book over here, and now I wish, that I didn't, because, as you said, I mean, there's a lot there. Obviously the characters, I was drawn to the landscape photos that he had just the light that was being used was absolutely phenomenal there. the question that I wanted to know was when you look at photographers with a visual storytelling ability, right? Like you look at their work and you know that it's theirs. What are those elements? Like, okay, hold on. Sorry. No, that was way too vague of a question. That was way too vague. How long do we have here? let's take Ryan for example, right? Ryan's work doesn't look like your work. It doesn't look like, Wendy's work. Is it simply finding one thing and just going really deep into that, whether it be composition, light, whatever, the characters that you use, or is it, more questioning yourself and the decisions that you're making, in order to create the photos that you want?
Michael Rababy:I mean, I feel like we're kind of getting into like a philosophical, almost like existential concept of like, where do you get your voice? what makes you do the things that you do? And I think it, it all comes down to, yeah, like, who are you as a person? Like, do you have an examined life? Are you always questioning things? what relationships have you been in, and how have those relationships in your life affected you. I think your work is a result of every book you've read every, great love you've had every adventure that you've had every exotic place you've traveled, every great film that you've Inspired you, or piece of art that you've seen that you that just stops you and arrest you in your tracks and just makes you look at it and silences your mind, the silence is the shatter in your mind. And I think all that stuff culminates over years and over time to hone your voice if you're paying attention, and if you're working it out too And picking up the camera and making art and editing your work, narrow honing it down making those hard choices and it's not easy. But luckily, no punishment for making the wrong choice you just kind of keep going. There's no harm. you just got to keep going. Keep sharpening who you are as a person. And this is what artists do that makes us different from I think the average, person, is that we're always asking questions or always looking stuff. And we're, more sensitive, we tend to be more sensitive to things and we're catching things. We're seeing things. They're like, two kinds of sculptures. There's sculptors, there's a, there's additive and subtractive, and someone will, take a, just a lump of clay and build something from that. And some will take marble and reduce it down, to something that, something, and I've heard of filmmaking being compared to that, where I have like documentary, you're taking a bunch of elements and you're reducing it down to something as opposed to someone who's just a real visionary filmmaker, who's just building something, just creating something from nothing or from, so something that's a preconceived notion that's in their head. Yeah. So that's something to consider too. Like, are you someone who is going to go out and just hit the streets and find things and then create art from that? Or do you have things in your head that you want to just create that you could do in your home, by, building things and documenting, shooting them still live, creating still life pieces. There's kind of two different ways of approaching photography from that way too.
Raymond Hatfield:Do you think that you can, Properly look at both sides of that spectrum and appreciate it equally as being somebody oh, who doesn't go out and create large images. Do you think that, looking at those has more weight to you or less weight to you?
Michael Rababy:Yeah. No, no. I value everything. I, for me, at the end of the day, does it give me an emotional impact? Is it an impactful image, that hits me like on a gut level and for example, Ryan's work. Is very much created, from nothing, and it's very much fabricated in a way, and it's brilliant, and I love it, and it's in the book, and it's been in a couple of my shows, and he's great, and I wish I could afford, his work, because it's
Raymond Hatfield:I feel like, you kind of, I don't want to say that you shied away from, like, oh, well, this is turning, like, kind of philosophical, and how do we answer these questions, but for me, I really feel like those answers here are really important for photographers to hear that, like, it's okay just to like whatever it is that you like, you know, if you like it for a reason. and I think that's going to give a lot of people hope.
Michael Rababy:Every photographer Who you look up to every artist started somewhere. Everyone picked up a paintbrush, picked up a pen, picked up a camera somewhere and just started making images and just started doing it. Everyone. So everyone should absolutely be like, there's no reason not to do it. Everyone. If If you want to do it, you should do it. It It should be fun. It should be something that you want to do. It should be something that you're gravitated towards. No one's making you do it.
Raymond Hatfield:I have a, I don't want to say that it's an opposite take on that, but I am very much, I would say it's more of like, I'm a creature of habit, right? so, in 2017 and in 2018, I did this thing. it was this app called one second a day, right? You just take a picture or a video with your phone and then you upload it to this app. At the end of the year, you have, 365 second long video of your entire year. 2017, it went great. 2018, it went great. And then I skipped, like, two days, and I haven't done it since. and I think, for me, there was a lot of days where I didn't want to do it, but, like, I almost had to force myself to do it. Because, if I didn't, I know that I would Stop doing it completely. And I love that idea of like, Oh no, if you want to do something, like just go out and do it, and if you're not feeling inspired, like don't do it. But I personally feel like I would just never get anything done. If that was the case. Does that make sense?
Michael Rababy:Well, you're specifically talking about a long term project that involves specifically doing something every day. Okay. So that's a very specific example. And in that. Okay. So then, then in a year when it's done, you'll probably get the, you will be happy for having done it. So that, that is a happiness that you'll get from it. That is a gratification that you'll get from it. So that's a deferred gratification. but then another question is 10 years from now, if we look at your body of work and we look at this video that you created that one year, that was maybe more of a struggle to execute. Is that going to be. One of your top 10 pieces of your, of the last decade, or, you know, like, so that's going to be the ultimate question. So we're making things we're just kind of constantly, I don't know, for me, I'm just constantly building this body of work and I'll think about it later, but, but you got to have fun along the way.
Raymond Hatfield:You do got to have fun along the way. that's very true. How would you define fine art photography?
Michael Rababy:fine art photography is, something that someone would want to buy and put on their wall, something that maybe tells a story. I'm sure there's a definition somewhere that's much more succinct. It's just off the top of my head.
Raymond Hatfield:Yeah.
Michael Rababy:commercial photography is someone paying you to do something. Fine art photography is the end result of a passion. an art. It's something that's, can be decorative. Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield:oftentimes I've seen like street photographers go out and just like, you know, it's just a point and shoot, they just go out and essentially it's a, disposable camera, they'll go out and they'll create these like amazing looking photos, but it almost seems as like there's not much intent behind the photo. They just went out and just started snapping away. do you think that style of just going out with very little control over your camera. do you think that those photos could still potentially be considered fine art?
Michael Rababy:Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Cartier Bresson considered himself an amateur. I mean, he shot with, I mean, I think it had more control, but it was very, very small, almost like a point shoot, a very, very basic camera and he's. Yeah, I mean, but again, going about tool is not the important part. Like when you go to a gallery, I'm not always thinking, Oh, what camera was this? It's like, you're just looking at the final product. Of course. Sometimes you're thinking about the camera. Depends on the piece, but you know what I'm saying? But, yeah, I think we keep getting back to, yeah, I mean, so in terms of intent, I mean, so that might, important thing to think about. It can be a defining factor between like documentary and street photography where you have an intent and you're shooting like a larger, there's a larger topic or as the maybe a subject matter or a theme that you're doing over time that it becomes a documentary project. street photography is just you just. I could take my camera right now. I live like a block from Wilshire Boulevard. I could go down and there are people right there. I could go start making photography. New York is great for that. big cities, you have like people right there. LA is more of a car culture. So I'm shooting a lot for my car, which is nice to have like a longer lens. which is great. Cause you could kind of get in and out. but again, it just got, it gets down to doing it. For me, it's documentary. For other people, it might be, creating something or having like this vision of what they want to document. I think if you have kids, most people gravitate towards, shooting photos of their kids. So think of different ways, You could do that. And you have like a, you basically have a free model. They may not be taking direction. Yeah, exactly. They may not take direction very well, but yeah, think of creative ways you can shoot your kids wherever you are. I mean, if you have a cell phone on you, you could always be documenting and it's digital. You could throw it away. You don't have to pay for the film. You don't have to pay for the processing. You can just delete it at the end of the day or not, or keep it and then look at it in a few years. It's, you're probably going to like it. It's going to, it's going to have more value. luckily photography ages very well.
Raymond Hatfield:Yes.
Michael Rababy:You can take a photo of something mediocre, look way better. 50 years from now, it'll look great. Cause it'll be this, this time piece, you know?
Raymond Hatfield:Oh, isn't that funny? Isn't that so funny? I love photography. Photography is weird and photography is great for sure. I feel like where we're going right now is space for like 10 more podcasts. So, I think that we're at the end of this one today, but before I let you go, can you let listeners know where they can, learn more about you, your work and where they can find your book?
Michael Rababy:Yeah, the book is available. I would recommend going if you go to my website, it links to one of my favorite bookstores, Arcana books of the arts, and you could buy it directly from them. It's the same price everywhere. It's actually almost sold out. it retails for 50. you can get it directly through the Los Angeles center of photography for a little less if you find it on their website. but I really recommend. Trying to support independent bookstores, independent booksellers. They took a huge hit during COVID. And, they're doing the God's work. And as an artist, again, that's one of your best. opportunities to go out and look at a ton of work, go to a bookstore, crack open a book. it's not stuff that you're going to necessarily find on social media or on Instagram, like you just said. so, yeah, through my website, my name is a little tricky to spell, I go by full on rad as in full on radical on Instagram and Facebook and I'm easy to find. Hopefully you'll have a link to my website as well. And you could read a lot of press about the books and you could find all my books there. And, I guess if it's one last thing to say to inspire people is just grab your camera or your cell phone and just go out and do it and do that. And then also spend a lot of time photo editing. And if you want to curate, just find a space and put up some walls and I'm sure you'll find a ton of photographers who will be very happy to have you exhibit. their work for them
Raymond Hatfield:real quick, a huge shout out to Michael for coming on the podcast and sharing his wealth of knowledge. it was a wonderful conversation. If you liked this episode, then I want to encourage you to check out episode 234 with Jessica Bellinger about how to use photography to shape your life. Jessica shares in the interview how photography helped her to see her life's purpose and interact with the world around her to make it a better place. So if that's something that you are interested in, then listen to the full interview. Again, that's episode 234 with Jessica Bellinger. Now I have three takeaways from my interview today with Michael. And the first one was developing a unique voice. focus on creating work that reflects your individual perspective and style to make photographs easily recognizable as your own. So after looking through hundreds of photographers for his book, what made photographers stand out was having a clear voice. Now, this can be achieved through continuous practice, exploration, and the. integration of your personal experiences. Nobody else is going to have those. You bring those into your unique art form, which is photography, and they will stand out. Takeaway number two is the importance of gratitude and personal fulfillment. I think it's easy to find value in starting and committing to a long term project, while understanding the discipline and patience required is, constantly engaging you. But it's not until the end that the gratification, comes. Because it comes from completing these projects, and that pursuit of that personal fulfillment that you get in photography is not just one photo at a time, but it is through building something substantial, and that is essential for continuous growth as a photographer. And takeaway number three is the importance of curation and editing. Making tough decisions, in curating your photos, is not easy. It was implied there. it's tough decisions, especially when you're taking photos of your family and your loved ones. But learning how to do it is one of the most important skills because while you can learn the technical side of photography, you also have to think about, if you're sharing your work, what the viewer Is going to think about these images, how the viewer is going to perceive them to know if they're going to understand the story that it is that you are trying to tell them. So curating your photos and editing them down is so important to be able to create, emotionally impactful and relatable images. Now I want to invite you to share your biggest takeaways with me and everybody else in the free and private beginner photography podcast community where you can connect with others and share your ideas and ask questions as well. So come on in, join us. You can join today for free over at beginner photopod. com. Until next week, remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon. Thank you for listening to the Beginner Photography Podcast. Keep shooting and we'll see you next week.