The Beginner Photography Podcast

Getting Started with Birth Photography with Tavia Redburn

• Raymond Hatfield

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#346 Today we are chatting with birth photographer Tavia Redburn and we get real technical about what you need and what you need to know before shooting your first birth session! In this episode Tavia talks about how she got interested in photography and the experiences that led her to becoming a birth photographer. She teaches beginners the technical aspects of the craft and encourages them to practice as much as possible for better results.

Theres this phrase that says, you’re only an expert on something if you can explain it to a 5 year old and today, that is me, I may as well be a 5 year old with how little I know about birth photography and Tavia explains it as an expert and in a very pragmatic way that I know many of you will appreciate! She also host the From better half to boss podcast which is focused on the business side of photography but if you like Tavia’s teaching style here today, be sure to check out her podcast as well!


The Big Ideas

  • Learn to use the tools you have.
  • Capture special moments.
  • Control camera settings to capture vision.
  • Capture moments authentically.
  • Look for small details.
  • Communicate expectations clearly.
  • Embrace the grain in low light.
  • Control light with flash.


Timestamps

  • 00:05:17 Learn to use ingredients available.
  • 00:10:05 Photograph Anything and Everything.
  • 00:17:51 Adding a family member through birth.
  • 00:24:20 Control your camera for best results.
  • 00:25:11 Capture moments as they happen.
  • 00:31:20 Capture meaningful moments.
  • 00:40:25 Communicate non-negotiables upfront.
  • 00:47:47 Embrace the grain in birth photography.
  • 00:50:05 Control your light with flash.


Resources:

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Tavia Redburn:

I want to make challenging scenes interesting. And here's what I mean. Sometimes moms get an epidural and that does not really, I don't ever want to say it's boring, but it's just different because she's just sitting there and you're just kind of all waiting for something to happen. Right. And so it's really been all about being creative with what's in the room and using perspective, close, medium, far, high to make things interesting. Interesting in that storytelling process and using like details of things in the room to tell the story when the subject herself might kind of just be chilling for three hours.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to episode 346 of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by cloud spot. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we're chatting with birth photographer, Tavia Redburn, and we get real technical about what you need to know. and what you need to know before shooting your first birth session. There's this phrase that says you're only an expert on something if you can explain it to a five year old. And today, that was me, right? I mean, I may as well be five years old with how little I know about birth photography. And Tavia explains it like an expert in a very, pragmatic way that I know a lot of you are going to appreciate. She is also the host of From Better Half to Boss podcast, which is focused on the business side of photography. So if you like what Tavia is teaching here today and her kind of teaching style, there'd be sure to check out her podcast as well. So with that, let's learn about birth photography and get into today's podcast interview with Tavia Redburn. Tavia, my first question for you is when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Tavia Redburn:

Oh man. So I actually started a photography, my photography business in 2009. I was one of those, moms that got a DSLR, the mom tog rage back then. Right. And, I just started taking photos of anything and everything that I could. And it was back then that I hired a birth photographer. So birth photography was brand new. I hired a birth photographer in 2011 for my son's birth. And she didn't show up.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, no, because

Tavia Redburn:

I was in labor for so long. she had a whole list of excuses as to why she couldn't be there. And it was then that I really started taking photography seriously. And that it came from the photography side. Yes. But it also came from, I wanted to be somebody that families could rely on because of what had just happened to me because I had somebody not show up for me and you don't get a redo right to photograph somebody's wedding or somebody's birth and I wanted to be somebody that families could rely on.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. okay. So you got the camera when your oldest was born. tell me about any days earlier than that was photography. Any part of your life, growing up, you

Tavia Redburn:

know, it's funny. I had a little point and shoot camera. This is probably 2007 and I learned how to do selective color. I don't know if you remember.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh yes, absolutely. Back

Tavia Redburn:

in the day, I got married in 2006. And. Selective color was all the rage. Yes. And so I learned how to do, I remember I was in Vegas and I was doing selective color on like street photography inside my little point and shoot. There's no editing. It was all in camera. And that's when something clicked in my brain to where I was obsessed. Like we were on vacation and I didn't even care about what we were doing. I just wanted to keep taking photos. So that's the earliest memory that I have of, you know, taking photos and really kind of becoming obsessed with it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So how long was it between then and when you finally got your DSLR? Two years. Two years. Okay. So in that time, were you continuing to take photos, until you got that DSLR or was it a different progression?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, I did continue to take photos. I also had a baby in there. And so like, that kind of took my focus. But after I had him is whenever I wanted to get a fancy camera, I'm doing air quotations. I wanted to get a fancy camera. Uh huh, and see what kind of images I could create with a better camera, because I had this mindset that if I had a better camera, I would get better photos, and that was not the case.

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah, it was not the case, yes, that is, that is the thing that everybody realizes once they get that nice, quote unquote, fancy camera, so, why not?

Tavia Redburn:

Because I didn't know how to use it. I vividly remember being like, okay, I think it was like 600. I got a cannon rubble, like the cheapest cannon rubble you could get back then. And I thought, okay, now I'm going to be able to take great photos. And the stinking pop up flash kept popping up every time I wanted to take a photo. And I couldn't get it to focus on what I wanted it to focus on, right? Like the focal points are all over the place. It would be like something in front was out of focus, in focus. And I wanted something else in focus. So it was a mess. And I quickly realized that my photos actually looked worse with a nicer camera that was supposed to be better and fancier, right? My photos were terrible. and so it was then that I realized. kind of like a chef preparing a meal, right? Like I have to know how to use the ingredients that I have. Like, I have to know how to use these things available to me. Yes, they might be better, but if I don't know how to use them, they're not better.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Yes. So I know that, there's a number of photographers who I've encountered over the years who, went through a similar progression today. It's now their phones instead of a point and shoot camera. And then they get the DSLR. And then they're solely, disappointed, right? Because they go through exactly what you just went through. The camera does not take a great photo. And that is very, upsetting, right? Because now you spend all this money on this nice, fancy camera, and it doesn't take the photos that you want. What kept you going? Because if I spent a ton of money on something like really fancy and thought this is actually worse than what I was doing before, no, if I would continue to go. So what was it that kept you going and learning photography?

Tavia Redburn:

I knew that there was a way, you know what I mean? Like I knew that there was a way to get what was in my head in a photo. And so I started learning, trying to learn online. So I would find back then there were no Facebook groups. I would go to like forums and try to read and understand. But I, as probably a lot of people listening, I'm a very visual learner and I do a lot better with somebody just directly telling me or in person. And so I quickly went from. Trying to learn online to trying to find someplace in person that could teach me how to use this camera because I had spent all this money. I knew I had a vision in my head of the different types of images that I wanted to create. And I was like, somebody out there can teach me how to do this. I was very persistent. That's a character quality. I hold to this day. Like when I have my mindset on something, I'm going to do it,

, Raymond Hatfield:

so, okay, I know that, this feeling of. Yeah. Knowing that it can be done. Right. But what from a photographic standpoint was pushing you forward? Was it this idea that, your kids are going to grow up with wonderful photos of their childhood? Was it more of a internal creative pursuit? What was it?

Tavia Redburn:

I think it was the internal creative pursuit, because I knew that I wanted to create this thing. And I knew that there was a way to create it. I just didn't know how to do it. I don't think that I was thinking ahead quite so much as far as like, the creating the photos for my kids because I knew that I had this point and shoot. Like if I'm going to create the photos, I know I can at least do the minimum version with this point and shoot, but it was more of a creativity that I needed to fulfill was this hobby that I had at the time where I wanted to create these images and I could see them in my head. I just needed to learn how to use this equipment to get me there.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Right. So how long would you say it went from, you got the camera and you really decided to push forward with education and learn how to use it until you got your first photo where you thought, Oh, this is pretty good. Maybe I do know what I'm doing here.

Tavia Redburn:

It was probably only three to four months, I took an in person class and things really started clicking. I started to understand the exposure triangle. I started to practice all the time. Like I had my camera out constantly. I was practicing all the time. And I remember for my birthday, my husband got me the nifty 50, which 50, 50 millimeter 1. 8, which at the time was like 99. I think it's a lot more than that now. Which seemed like a lot, but it was like I had heard great things because I was just working with my kit lens and I'll never forget my birthday is the 3rd of July. So on the 4th of July, I had this new lens. I was playing around with it. I cranked my aperture all the way down to 1. 8 and took this like, photo of the American flag from the side and everything was like, super blurred out except for where I wanted the focus. And I, my mind was blown. I was so excited. I told my husband, like, I finally have created what has been in my head, like what I have been trying to create. I finally did it. And I'll never forget that photo and that moment just being like, okay, that's it. I got it. I know how to do what I want to do now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow, that is such a good feeling. That is such a good feeling when you work so hard for something. And, even if it is unexpected, right? You're like, Whoa, I didn't think that that was going to be the result. Still getting it is like, I, but I did that. Right. And it feels good. It feels good. I get that. Yeah. Tell me about the transition then from, photographing everyday life, photographing your kids into birth photography. You said that you hired a birth photographer for your birth, never showed up. And was that when you decided to first dip your toes into the business side of photography?

Tavia Redburn:

No, I would say it was before then. It was kind of this story that we hear all the time, especially back then, which was, I was taking photos, was posting them online and people were reaching out to me like, Hey, can you photograph my baby? Can you photograph my daughter's senior session? Like all these different things. And of course I was saying yes to everything because I wanted to photograph anything and everything that I could and so I was taking photos for 50 bucks here and there, like learning editing all these things. So I had the beginnings of a photography business, in 2010, whenever I hired the birth photographer in 2011, that didn't show up. And that was the summer of 2011. And that was whenever I was really like, okay, All right. I think I had never photographed a birth, but based on my experience, photographing mainly babies, I knew that that was the niche that I wanted to pursue after kind of dabbling in all these different genres. that's when I really wanted to like get full into it with birth photography was whenever I missed out on that moment myself, like as a mom,

Raymond Hatfield:

I guess that's gotta be so painful. So, somebody who doesn't photograph births, who's, I mean, I've only been there when my kids were born. How did you book your first, birth session? Is it called a birth session? Is that it?

Tavia Redburn:

I usually just say birth or client. I don't really usually say birth session. Cause like you wouldn't say wedding session, right? Like it's just wedding. It's a wedding. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah. So my very first one was actually my cousin who I just said, Hey, I had photographed her family before and I just said, Hey, I think I want to get into birth photography. And I, birth photography was not a thing. Like people didn't really know what birth photography was. And I was like, I know this sounds weird, but I really want to capture your birth. Would you be okay with me showing up and just doing it for free? And thankfully she said yes. And so that was my first experience, photographing someone else's birth. That was just six months after my son was born. And, there were so many challenges, of course. Like, birth is so unlike any other genre. You have no idea what you're walking into when it comes to, lighting, where you can stand, who's going to be there. Like. anything about the environment. And so I faced a lot of challenges in that birth, but just like whenever I was learning manual and learning how to take photos with that brand new camera, they were challenges that I knew I could overcome. figure out and overcome. And so that first birth taught me a lot. So I found the first client just happened to be my cousin that I photographed for free.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, okay, I got to know more about what are these challenges, obviously, like, there's a bit of a learning curve, right? As you said, the lighting, where to stand and whatnot. But despite all that, you had to have walked away with something that you thought, Oh, like, I'm gonna keep going with this. Tell me about that.

Tavia Redburn:

For me, it was This isn't a challenge. This is what hooked me on birth photography. And it was the moment she saw her baby for the first time. Every mom has a different reaction. some people have this sigh of relief. Some people have this like, joyous look on their face. Everybody reacts differently. And when I saw her face, the first time she saw her baby, that became what I started to call the, I did it moment because that's the moment that really spoke to me. And so that was the moment that I started seeking out for my clients from that moment forward, because that's the moment as a mom, you know what it feels like. But you don't really know what it looks like because you can't see yourself, right? And so whenever you get to see yourself experiencing that, it's just like, a totally immersive, unique thing that you wouldn't be able to feel without that photo.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, wow. Okay. So when I think of birth photography, I think of it more as a way to document your now growing family. But the way that you just explained it, there was almost like a personal triumph, triumph for the mother right there is that a conscious decision that you make in terms of like, Marketing for new, mothers as well.

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, absolutely. It is about adding a baby to the family, but it's also about the experience of becoming a mom. And so the mom really is the primary focus in the storytelling until the baby gets there, then it becomes about the baby. But the labor and that moment is really all about her and becoming a mom. So it's definitely intentional on my part.

Raymond Hatfield:

I never, I never really thought about that where it becomes, I don't think there's any other genre of photography where, you have two, main characters essentially, but the main character switches halfway through the story. That's really interesting to think about. So when you, think back to the, those first images, right? The first burst that you shot or the first, number of births, whatever it is. When you think back to those images, where do you think you, as of, a birth photographer now with your experience, where do you think you've improved the most from a technical standpoint?

Tavia Redburn:

Hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Aside from everywhere, of course.

Tavia Redburn:

The biggest challenge that I had and that a lot of new birth photographers have is nailing focus. I think that that could probably be true for a lot of genres, but it's especially challenging in birth because so many things are moving so quickly and you don't always know where things are going to be right. Like the baby coming up is so fast. You have no idea where they're going to put the baby. Like it's just all. There's so many variables that you really just have to be prepared for anything. And so I think that the biggest change for me was number one, focus and being able to intentionally think about what I, what do I want to be in focus in this photo? Who is my subject of this photo? And is that clear to the viewer? And number two is storytelling. I don't think that I really understood how to tell a story when I was very first starting out in birth photography. I was more taking snapshots, like somebody, you know, just a family member in the room would do. And it wasn't until birth number probably 10 or 15 that I realized how to be intentional with angles and perspective and depth of field cue. Really tell a full story of the day versus just snapshots.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Okay. Well, that is the perfect, route to go down now because, that this podcast is all about getting away from snapshots and getting more intentional with your photographs. So when it comes to a birth, when it comes to. and I say this about a wedding, right? Like after you've been to enough weddings, you kind of get the flow of how a wedding goes, but there's still a lot of unexpected moments. but the story is always the same, right? Two people are just joining their lives together publicly with their family and friends. For you, what is the story that you are telling? and second part of this question, are you doing it over a series of photos. Are you trying to do it throughout the whole gallery? how does that story, unveil itself?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah. So this story is about the family adding a new member to their family. Right. And so I think that for me, storytelling is all about in what you just described, like in a wedding, I like to think about it in chunks. So I think about labor being its own story. So whatever labor looks like for that mom, some people having a scheduled c section labor might look a lot different than somebody having a home birth that's been in labor for 30 hours. Right. And so I really like to personalize the story as much as I can and get to know my clients beforehand. Like, did they overcome anything? Did they go through IVF to get pregnant? Did they, have a loss before this baby is this their first baby? Like, All of those different things help shape their unique story. But as a general rule for all of my clients, I think about it. One is labor, two as the I did it moment. So that very quick moment of actually giving birth and then sort of like in a wedding, a reception, It would be the postpartum, like everybody else coming and meeting the baby for the first time, weighing and measuring the baby and the first family picture.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm. Okay. So, thank you for laying that out. That does make it a whole lot easier to think about. is the way that you approach the images or the images that you capture different throughout those three phases?

Tavia Redburn:

not really. It's actually quite similar because I'm just trying to think, okay. If somebody wasn't here and they wanted to experience what this birth was like, how could I help them feel like they were here? And so I'm thinking about perspective. What does the whole room look like? What does a small portion of the room look like? what does it look like from a higher perspective? What does it look like from a lower perspective? In addition to Moments that you feel when you're there, like a quick laugh, right? There's laughter in a labor room or a moment of struggle or pain or change. And how can I, as the photographer, Yes, be in in the moment kind of with the family, but also be aware of those quick moments of joy or pain or discomfort or change so that I can capture it and tell that as part of their story too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah, that makes sense. I like that when it comes to as you mentioned earlier, like you want to know their story. Did they go through IVF? Had they lost a child before this birth? in the hopes that it helps you deliver more personalized, birth photos, how would If a couple had went through IVF, or if they had lost a child, how would that change the images that you captured?

Tavia Redburn:

Mmm, good question. Knowing that for me, helps me be aware of emotions that might come up that are different than other people. So if somebody is having a rainbow baby, for example, so that's a baby after a loss of some kind, it's called a rainbow baby. And I will ask them if they're bringing anything significant to honor the baby that they lost or something like that. So that I can be aware to capture that in the room and tell that as, as part of the story. Obviously if they're, you know, it's baby number seven, that's still special and unique too. And I want to know, is it a bunch of boys and this is, this is your girl or is it, are the siblings going to come up to the hospital and meet the baby? Or if you're having a home birth, like are the siblings going to be in there? Bye. I just want to know their story. So that I know like the characters involved, right? So that I can properly tell each piece of it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess in your busiest year, how many weddings? How many births do you think you've shot?

Tavia Redburn:

think was probably our busiest year. And we did 30, I believe. I had an associate photographer with me that year.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is quite a lot of births. My goodness. okay. So then this is an even better question now that you have, an associate as well for an associate, like, when it comes to telling a story, right, you need a certain amount of photos, right? What do you tell them that they need to capture in order to consider their birth capture a success?

Tavia Redburn:

So this particular photographer. I did not take bringing on someone lightly, because my clients were hiring me from my particular style. So this photographer is a photographer who was my backup photographer for years. I had seen her work. We had worked together a lot. And as far as storytelling goes, I just sat down with her and was like, okay, here's, and I shared with her just what I shared about the labor I did at moment and postpartum periods as far as storytelling goes. And I told her. I'm constantly looking for emotion, whatever that emotion might look like. And I want to make challenging scenes interesting. And here's what I mean. Sometimes moms get an epidural and that does not really, it can make for not very interesting photos. And I don't know how to like make this work for the wedding world, but I'm sure there's something similar where there's like a situation where it's kind of boring and you've got to make it interesting. Right. And so. I don't want, I don't ever want to say it's boring, but it's just different because she's just sitting there and you're just kind of all waiting for something to happen, right? And so it's really been all about being creative with what's in the room and using perspective, close, medium, far, high, low, those different things to try to to make things interesting in that storytelling process and using like details of things in the room to tell the story when the subject herself might kind of just be chilling for three hours.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, Raymond here and we will get back to today's interview in just a moment. But first, did you know that shooting a manual is the choice of professional photographers All over the world for one reason. It gives them full control of their camera so that they can capture the image that they visualize in their head. But how do you know which settings for you to use and when? Well, let me help you out with my free ebook, Picture Perfect Camera Settings. that you can grab for yourself over at PerfectCameraSettings. com. In it, I share images that I've shot over the years with real camera settings and the info on knowing which setting is the most important to change in which situations so that you can be on your way to learning manual mode too. More than 3000 photographers, just like you have downloaded it already. So grab your copy today at perfect camera settings. com. Now let's get back to today's interview. That right there is going to be a memorable quote. I'm writing that down. That was a wonderful piece of information because, When it comes to, as you said, when it comes to weddings, there are many times where it's just boring, you're just waiting around, they budgeted far too much time and you're like, what am I doing here? But, figuring out how you can make something interesting out of seemingly nothing is so important to elevating your photos past snapshots. They're no longer snapshots. If you're intentional about, using foreground elements, using a type of light or whatever it is to capture that photo to tell a bigger story. So thank you so much for, for sharing that. Bye. I'm excited. So looking for emotion is obviously very important for you. One thing that we say on the podcast a lot is that moment matters most, right? Everything else can kind of go by the wayside. Your technicals can, you know, there's a little bit of wiggle room there when you have a really good moment. Is there a photo in your head that you can think of, from your past of maybe a really good moment, but possibly not the best, technical settings that you had?

Tavia Redburn:

No, they're pretty much perfect, Raymond. Wonderful. All right. Next question. No, um, I mean, there have definitely nothing jumps to mind immediately, but there are definitely times where missed focus is just is a really challenging piece because I like to shoot wide open, like I'll usually shoot at 2. 0. And so it's like, okay, well, if there's any discrepancy in the baby moving, slightly forward or slightly back, the doctor handing them off or whatever, the moment that you have in your head can be slightly out of focus. And so for me, it's always been. really intentional about my focal points and making sure that my subject is clear and in focus and intentional. And so I don't know if that, if that answers your question, but that's always been my challenge. And that does tend to be the common thing that birth photographers struggle with because it's so changing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So I know a lot of listeners have asked about that. Questions, right? How come, my photo isn't in focus, and there could be a million reasons as to why, when you're first getting started and you just don't understand how focus works. But as time goes on, photographers, we buy better gear, more professional gear, I think that listeners would love to know that, I guess, why getting focus is so difficult in a birth setting, even with, the knowledge that you have and, professional level gear.

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah. Once I started using a speedlight, In birth, not like off camera on camera speed light. It made all the difference because the struggle in birth photography or really a lot of indoor photography without a flash is just available light. So you end up cranking up your ISO. You're doing anything you can to get light into your camera, right? So you have a really high ISO. You're suffering on your shutter speed. You've got too slow of a shutter speed, which makes, anything blurry. And you're wide open on your aperture, which means that if you've locked focus and your subject moves forward or back at all, that might now be out of focus. And so in low light situations, there's like a lot of things to consider. For me, it was almost always that aperture being wide open. And either the subject moving or me moving, and it just being slightly out of focus because I think that there's a, there is a difference between missed focused and soft focus. Like, if I missed focus, I can't tell any piece of where the focus landed in this photo. Right? But if it's just a little bit. soft. It's like, okay, what happened here in maybe my settings? Did my focal point lean somewhere else? Like that kind of a thing. And so did that answer your question?

Raymond Hatfield:

Absolutely. Absolutely. When it comes to, again, focus, focus is a big question that a lot of people have. And I think, like we said in the beginning, you think that just getting a DSLR is going to change your photography entirely. And it doesn't and getting a professional level camera. again, while there are more, options in a, and, what's the word I'm looking for? usability, I guess it doesn't always equate to perfect focus every single time, no matter the conditions. And that is something that, People feel I just spent 5, 000 on a camera, I would never miss focus again. And it's great to hear, from you that that's just simply not the case. There are a lot of factors that go into, getting focus now when you are in the room, right, getting ready for the birth, I know that there are kind of two camps of wedding photographers. There are those more commercial wedding photographers who are into, I'm manipulating is not the right word. I'm at loss of words here today, controlling a situation, how people look, not their reaction, but, the activity that they're doing. And then there's kind of the, the fly on a wall approach. Is it similar in the world of birth photography?

Tavia Redburn:

yeah, I wouldn't say that there would be a birth photographer who would be trying to manipulate a situation because there's so many things that are unknown that you have no control over. My approach has always just been the fly on the wall approach because a client's main concern about hiring a birth photographer is almost always, I don't know if I want somebody else in the room. So if I can ease their minds and let them know I'm going to be hanging back, I'm a fly on the wall, capturing things as they happen, a lot of moms, especially moms having a natural birth that are focused on what they're doing, don't even really realize when I enter the room or that I'm even there, like clients will often tell me. When did you get here Like, I didn't even know you were here, kind of a thing. And so that's my goal is for them to magically have beautiful photos without even realizing that there was a photographer in the room.

Raymond Hatfield:

How long is, the birth process? Like how long are you in the room?

Tavia Redburn:

So I always tell my clients that I want to be there in active labor. So I don't need to be there in early labor, but when things start to get serious, when they have a consistent contraction pattern, and we go, we talk in detail in their consultation about what that looks like, especially for first time moms, cause it's all new to them. so I try to arrive in active labor and stay two hours after the baby is born. So that could be four hours. That could be 25 hours. Like there really is no way to know for sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

How are you a fly on the wall? Let's just say, you know, for 24 full hours, like what I know as a wedding photographer, sometimes if there's a boring moment, I almost feel guilt that I'm not continually taking photos. Do you feel the same way, in the hospital room?

Tavia Redburn:

I used to, but I realized that actually when I'm taking a break from taking photos, that, It kind of allows them to take a break. You know what I mean? They see that this is not just one continual photo shoot. Like, I am here to take photos of significant things as they happen that can tell your story. I'm not here to just, like, take photos non stop. So, I definitely felt that way in the beginning where I felt like, Oh, well, I have to look busy. You know, I have to look professional. But as I started to photograph more births, my clients really became my friends. Like, I really got to know them so well, that I never hesitated to bring my laptop and just, if the situation presented itself, just be like, Hey, I'm going to have my camera ready, but I'm also going to be doing this or that. Like, I would get bring my laptop and work. In the birth, and I think that it made them feel more relaxed that I was relaxed.

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah, yeah, I can imagine that. my wife had, uh, it was quite a long act of labor for our son, for our oldest, and it was not so long for our daughter. But I remember thinking, or I guess imagining like, yeah, if there was a photographer in there, like how boring would this be like, we're just hanging out at this moment, obviously, and my wife is in anguish, just, you know, just sitting there, I can't imagine that she would want many of those types of photos, just constantly snapping away. There are obviously very difficult moments in the room from joy to, extreme pain. how do you deal with, with those different types of photos? Are you trying to, focus on the happier moments and especially when the baby arrives, or are you there to document the pain and all that goes along with it?

Tavia Redburn:

That is a good question. And it really comes down to the client because I get to know the client so well beforehand, I tend to know, cause I have two types of clients. I have the client who wants almost like a portrait experience in their birth, meaning they've got full hair and makeup. And they're like wearing some custom robe thing that they bought. And they're like, it's just a different type of client who wants like, nice, pretty looking photos versus the client who's like, No, I want the raw. I want all of it. Like type of client. And so depending on the client depends on what I'm going to photograph for that moment. So if there's like a moment of pain or where things are uncomfortable. The client who wants like the raw images is more likely to want that versus like the more portrait type client, if that makes sense. So getting to know them ahead of time really helps me know how to tell their story based on them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Right. Of course. But obviously you want people to look their best even in these raw states. Right. So with this fly on a wall approach, how do you find best to kind of express creativity from a photography standpoint? Not so much from the business standpoint, but as a photographer, how do you fulfill yourself creatively in those moments?

Tavia Redburn:

Like in the boring moments?

Raymond Hatfield:

guess just like while you're there, because obviously like, we talked about, you're trying to capture a story, right? from just a photographic standpoint, is there anything that you're doing as far as lighting or composition or, foreground elements, anything like that, that you do that makes you feel, like you're putting in more creative effort into these photos?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, I love to show like secondary elements with like the family as the secondary and the element as like the primary focus of the photo, for example, something small, like the mom is this particular mom. I'm thinking of had an epidural and she's laying there in bed and she's got this big, the big, like water jug they give you at the hospital. And what her mom had written mom, it was their first baby in red on top of that cup with like a Sharpie with like a heart. And so it was cute to, for me to just notice elements like that, keep me fulfilled creatively. To see that. And to take a photo of that in focus and mom in the hospital bed with her belly and like the monitors in, you know, blurred out in the background. So I'm always kind of trying to look for, unique things like that in ways that I can tell the story and make the primary subject kind of secondary to like all these other little details. does that answer your question? Creative?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's all about finding those those, as you said, the small little things that help you out. I think for me, I love just like doing something crazy with composition, like, let's just see if it'll work. And if it does, then It's the coolest thing in the world. And if it doesn't, well, I don't ever have to show that photo to anybody. So it's like, at least take a chance. So yeah. A hundred percent.

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah. Nobody ever knew that.

Raymond Hatfield:

We've kind of been talking a little bit about gear here as far as, speed lights go and getting extra, exposure, more light for more exposure in, these, in a hospital room? Is it inconsistent lighting or is it just poor lighting? Like tell me the role that the speed light has both. Help me.

Tavia Redburn:

It's everything because, there's sometimes hospital rooms that don't have a window. So it's literally just the overhead lights that are available. If mom's having a natural birth, she might not want any lights on, or she might have like a little, oil diffuser that has a little bit of light. And like the bathroom light is on with the door cracked. Like it has been very, very, like a lot of dark situations, but also what will happen is you'll have everything all set. And then a nurse will come in and flip a bunch of lights on, or like this when she's actually giving birth, there's like a spotlight that you're having to account for. So, yeah, it's inconsistent. And just not a lot of available light. And so I had this fly on speaking of the flash because it's kind of controversial in the birth photography world using a flash because people think that it's disruptive. The whole idea is like, Oh, I'm a fly on the wall and I capture things as they happen. And then there's this flash going off. Right. So I started toying with it a little bit and I asked my clients, you know, when I was first starting to play with it, like, Hey, I know that you want really good quality photos. The flash is going to allow me to give you that, but I also don't want it to disrupt you. So if it disrupts you at any point, let me know and I'll turn it off. But the thing is, when clients are paying thousands of dollars for photos, like, they want good quality photos. And so I will, now basically exclusively use flash unless told otherwise, because I have to compensate for that bright flat or that bright spotlight. Otherwise, that becomes my primary light source, which is terribly unflattering for everyone involved, because it's coming at her like this, right? And so the light is underneath her chin. Sorry, I came away from my mic to visually show you, but the light is coming at her from under her chin. It's terribly unflattering for everyone. And with a flash, I can manipulate it and get the light that I like. That's going to make her look flattering and still get photos of everything. So am I a little bit of a control freak? Okay. Maybe a little bit of a control freak, but the speed light gives me the ability to, get the best lighting in these unpredictable situations.

Raymond Hatfield:

I see. and you're just bouncing light off the ceiling. Is that right?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah. Usually like a wall, not necessarily the ceiling, but, I'll use a wall that's nearby and bounce it off of a wall.

Raymond Hatfield:

Nice and easy. I love it. I love it. Um, now I want to talk about the, probably the most difficult thing for me to wrap my head around here, which is the being on call. Like how do you deal with being on call? You have no idea when you're going to go in. You have no idea what time it could be. How do you make plans in your own personal life? Like there's so many things going on here.

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, is a challenge. I'm not going to pretend like it's not a challenge. I think that overcommunication is key. If I have a, an event in my life that I cannot miss my client knows about it before they book me. So I just, I have 2 kids with birthdays in November. We just wrapped up celebrating all of them and, I would tell my clients if I had a client in November say, hey, my kids birthdays are these days and these days. I'm not going to be available that day. So if you happen to go into labor that day, you're going to get my backup. And I just have like non negotiables in my life that it's like, I'm not going to miss this. And my clients are family people. Like they all understand that. And I just go out of my way to make sure that they're really comfortable with my backups. And I tell them like how I've trained my backups and how much I trust them and how great they are and how I would hire them for my own birth, which is a hundred percent true. And, it just had non negotiables in my life. Day to day, like if I had a portrait client and I was headed to their session and I got a call that somebody was in labor, I would send a backup to that birth until I was done with the portrait client, most likely. So it's just kind of running through all of these what if situations in your head, but yeah, your phone is never on silence. You're just like, if you and I were interviewing right now and I got a call, it would be like, Hey Raymond, I have someone in labor. So, um, if we can wrap this up in the next 15 minutes, that'd be great. Normally when they call, it's not come right now. It's more of a, Hey, things are starting to happen. Just a heads up kind of a thing. And then I'll, I would be going later in the day.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So, I obviously had to do a little bit of research on you and the things that you post and I saw on your Instagram, You posted a, uh, that a client called you five minutes after the baby had been born. So sometimes you don't get that option, right? Tell me what you do from a, customer service perspective at that point, like what happens?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, it's really rare, first of all, like, it's really rare that that happens. But In the consultation, I talked to them about how a large portion of my fee is being on call. So if I miss your birth, you don't get a refund. And so please call me when you think labor is starting, even if it's false labor. So we go into all this stuff about like why it's important to call. So I do a lot of education on the front end to avoid situations like that. that particular mom. Didn't even realize she was in labor herself until I think she was pushing and she called everybody to come. Midwife. That was a home birth. Midwife didn't make it. Dula didn't make it. I definitely didn't make it. And so we showed up and I photographed everything that I could once I got there. So it's like we ended up doing like an herbal bath, which is like rose petals in the tub and like her bonding with the new baby and siblings meeting the new baby and that kind of a thing. And so I just communicate with them like, Hey, I asked for two hours from when you call me to come to me actually getting there. So I can get my kids where they need to go. I can get my gear, blah, blah, blah. if you have your baby in that two hour span, when you called me to come and I can't, and I wasn't there, I'll photograph everything I possibly can immediately afterwards. I'll get siblings meeting the baby, that kind of a thing. And so just communicating that ahead of is really valuable from a customer service perspective because disappointment with clients is usually just unmet expectations. So if you can set that expectation, they're less likely to be disappointed.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, absolutely. I would imagine that that is just a terrifying call to receive. Just like, what do you even do in that situation? It sounds like, you tried to, make it up to them and photograph what happens immediately afterwards. I want to know, this is more of a business question, what is it that your clients are buying from you? Because I know that there's a huge gamut of, photographers from shoot and burn, I'm going to show up, I'm just going to give you the digital files to in person sales and everything in between. So when a client contacts you and says that they want you to photograph their birth, what is it that they really want? What are they going to leave with?

Tavia Redburn:

So my clients want one of two things. Of course, everyone wants digital files, but they either want a printed album or a video. And so video is an add on that I do for my clients, and the clients that don't want video usually want a printed album. And so our packages, start with just a slideshow of images. The middle package is digital files. The top package is digital files on an album, and then you can add on video to any of those.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Okay. So, and then in your experience, do a lot of people purchase just individual prints, or it's mostly just the album is good enough?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, I actually photographed the birth of a good friend of mine and I was at her house and she had a printed photo of her birth in her like entryway. It was like modest obviously, but it was like the first moment she grabbed her baby and pulled her up to her chest. And that was the first time I'd ever seen or heard of any of my clients. It's printing their photos and like hanging them. most of them want to have a physical representation of them, but they don't want them like on display in their living room or something. So that's why they go for something like an album that they can show their kids as they grow up and, have for themselves without displaying them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Of course, yeah, I would imagine there's number of photos that you probably wouldn't want shared with just people just walking in your house. So that absolutely makes sense. Let you have that ability to enjoy them all when you are ready. Um, let me think here. I'm trying to think it's hard sometimes not being a birth photographer to know exactly, how the whole thing works and what questions to ask. So I guess, Tavia, is there anything that I didn't ask you today that you think that, listeners need to know about birth photography? Something that I didn't ask you.

Tavia Redburn:

I think you did a great job asking really great questions for somebody who's not a birth photographer. Cause those are all things that I get asked all the time, from people like learning birth photography. So I think it was perfect. I will say touched on flash, but I would encourage you after you learn manual mode. If you're interested in birth photography, start practicing with something like a speed light at home. A home environment is going to be the most similar to a hospital or obviously a home birth because you're indoors. You only have window light. That's going to be the time and place to practice with your speed light to get used to. What does it look like when I bounce it this direction? What does it look like, when it's this high or this low or these different settings? That's going to be the best way to master your lighting because lighting is definitely the number one challenge in addition to focus. But that focus issue comes because it's a lack of available lights. Right? And so I would say if you're not going to use flash, learn to embrace grain. slightly overexpose your photos, just as like a little, practical tip, slightly overexpose your photos. If you're having to crank up your ISO, it's going to help it not look quite so grainy. But I always tell my students, like, you have to embrace the grain because it's just the way it is in birth photography. It's not going to be necessarily these super crisp pictures at ISO 100 that you see of a family photographed out in a field because you just don't have that available light. So setting your expectations correctly with what your photos are going to look like and understanding how to use the exposure triangle to get the images that you want, would definitely be key. The starting point, I think,

Raymond Hatfield:

man, I've always said a granny photo is always better than a blurry photo for sure. And unfortunately I had to learn that, the hard way. So that is a lesson that is, well received over here. Now I know that a number of listeners are going to think to themselves, this whole birth photography thing sounds like a lot of fun. And this, interview didn't go in depth enough. So if anybody's listening and they want to know more about birth photography, where should we find you online?

Tavia Redburn:

Yeah, absolutely. So I have a podcast called From Better Half to Boss Photography Podcast. It's primarily marketing for baby and birth photographers. We get a little bit into birth photography. I hang out on TikTok and Instagram at Tavia Redburn, T A V as in victory, I A, and I'm sure that's Raymond can give you guys the link to that as well. I also have a Facebook group with over 5, 000 birth photographers all over the world at Tavia redburn. com slash F B group.

Raymond Hatfield:

I will say I am not going to get into birth photography, but, hearing about it from somebody who has, it was been there and done that, it does sound like it would be quite a rush, kind of like a wedding. Right. So I did have three big takeaways from this episode with Tavia. The first one was, when it comes to what do you need to photograph, that, that question, if you ask yourself, if somebody wasn't here, what photos would make them feel like they were here is such a great question to ask, because there are so many small things that happen during a birth. And I'm just, I'm just, I'm just. Replacing the word birth with wedding since I've shot weddings and it's kind of similar in that sense to where it's a one and done thing, right? Like once it happens if you weren't there, sorry But there are a lot of things like that where it's a lot of it is the atmosphere a lot of it is what's going on around you. That isn't necessarily the birth. It is it's so small details It is the way that you know, dad looks at mom. It is the way that you know the doctor or the nurse is prepared for the baby to come out. It's all those small things. So asking yourself, if somebody wasn't here, what photos would make them feel like they were here? That was takeaway. Number one takeaway. Number two was the importance of light and being able to control it. Wow. I know that, shooting a wedding can be difficult with unpredictable light, but shooting in a hospital, it is like, Not designed for photography at all, unlike weddings. So I would think that it'd be much more difficult. So being able to control your light specifically with flash is a huge, huge, takeaway, If photography is just capturing light that comes in, right? Whether it's direct light, whether it's reflective light, whatever it is, it's just capturing light. So if you can control light, you are going to be an immensely better photographer for that. And flash is the way to go. And takeaway number three is, thinking ahead to what is the, worst possible case scenario, and then make a plan for that. And then having just an open line of communication with your clients, what happens if, mom gives birth before she knows it and doesn't even have time to call and let you know that the birth is happening and what happens, you know, so many, so many different things. So creating a plan, and again, having that open line of communication with your clients is going to help mitigate, any potential problems in the future and just. relieve a ton of stress from you as well and make your clients feel a lot more comfortable working with you. So lots of great takeaways. I would love to know what your biggest takeaway was from this interview with Tavia Redburn. I want to hear your feedback on the show. I want to hear questions you got. You can reach out to me directly by visiting the contact page at beginner photography, podcast. com. From there, like I said, reach out to me directly. You can send me an email or better yet a voicemail and while you're there, be sure to download my free. photo guide picture perfect camera settings, which has camera settings for 10 popular types of photography. And it is filled with my personal and professional images and the real world camera settings that I use to capture those images just so that you know, kind of where to get started. So again, head over to the contact page over at beginner photography podcast, leave me that voicemail. Let me know what you thought about this episode. Ask me your photo questions. I would love to hear from you. And that is it for this week. Thank you again for tuning into this episode of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by cloud spot truly is the easiest way to deliver and sell photos online. You can learn more about cloud spot and grab a free account by heading over to deliver photos. com and remember the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk to you soon.

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