The Beginner Photography Podcast

Fine Art Photography in the Digital Age with Jason Matias

• Raymond Hatfield

Share episode

#465 In today's episode of the podcast, you'll discover how embracing isolation and self-reflection can profoundly impact your photography. Fine art photographer Jason Matias shares insights on NFTs offering a new perspective on art in the digital age.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Embrace Isolation for Growth - You'll learn the value of solitude for self-reflection and personal development in your photography journey.
  • Leveraging NFTs for Art - Discover the potential of NFTs in expanding your art market and creating new avenues for connecting with buyers.
  • Creating Context in Fine Art - Understand the significance of storytelling and context to elevate your photographic art beyond mere images.
  • Overcoming Creative Constraints - Find inspiration in limitations and hone your craft by focusing on creating the perfect shot.

PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN

  • Master Your Camera: Research your camera's settings and functionalities to understand its full potential. Practice using different camera modes and settings to get a feel for what works best in various shooting conditions.
  • Explore Fine Art Photography: Study different styles of photography to discover what resonates with you and inspires your creativity. Experiment with storytelling elements in your photography, focusing on context and creativity to elevate your images to the level of fine art.
  • Embrace Digital Photography Trends: Learn about NFTs and their role in the art market to understand how they can potentially benefit your photography career. Consider how you can brand yourself and market your work effectively in the digital space, including social media and NFT platforms.
  • Leverage Constraints for Creativity: Challenge yourself to capture images with intention, focusing on quality over quantity. Experiment with limiting yourself to taking only one perfect shot to hone your skills and creativity.
  • Build Your Portfolio and Network: Compile a portfolio of your best work across different genres to showcase your versatility and artistic vision. Engage with other photographers, artists, and potential clients to expand your network and gain valuable insights and opportunities.

Resources:
Follow Jason on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/realjasonmatias/
Visit Jason's Website - https://www.jasonmatias.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Jason Matias:

So when someone has the Excalibur sword, right, and it's in a museum, it's like this sword was owned by Prince Egypt of the second Tuesday, or last Wednesday, you know, whatever. It's got a whole history. And now as artists, we can have a history of all of our work, which allows us to. Well, I mean, it's to command a little bit more value from it and it allows people who are buying it to, to add value and and trade it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we are chatting with fine art landscape photographer Jason Mathias, about learning what to say with your images. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Clouds Spot. Sell your images through print product and of course digitals Set up a storefront in minutes and start earning more money with each gallery. You can grab your free forever account over@deliverphotos.com and only upgrade when you are ready. Now in today's episode with Jason, you're gonna learn three things. The first is the value of comfortable isolation. How cultivating a personal connection with, either your subject or your theme can lead to a really unique body of work. And embracing the learning process. It's normal to struggle with the technical aspects of photography, but Jason's gonna share some tips on how he kept at it and then eventually broke through. And lastly, you're gonna learn the power of storytelling. Jason shares how he uses photography as a way to tell stories, which is what differentiates fine art from mere snapshots. So there's a ton to learn here, so buckle up. With that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview with Jason Mathias. Jason, my first question for you is that I know that you didn't start with photography at a young age, quote unquote, like many photographers claim that they do. So can you tell me about when you knew that photography was going to play an important role in your life? When I couldn't get a job,

Jason Matias:

that's when it became really important. No. So I was in the military and I was stationed in North Pole, Alaska, and that's when I started photography. There was a few things going into it. There was, I couldn't go home, which I'm thankful that I never, I, I didn't go home for years after joining the military and that I. Shaped me in, in a way. But, I couldn't go home and I wanted to share some stuff with my family. Well, okay, so two more things. I was doing a lot of adventure stuff, right? I'm like 19, 20, 21. My first, I. Military station and nobody would believe the things that I was telling him. Like finding wolves and being stalked and walking up to bears and stuff like that, that people just didn't believe that. So walking up to

Raymond Hatfield:

bears, you walked up to bears?

Jason Matias:

Yeah. I have kayaked. That's terrifying. Straight up to the nose of a bear. Oh my gosh. Okay. While he was fishing, actually that wasn't my choice. So there was a two person kayak, and I don't know what she was thinking in the front, but she, it, it was just like a group thing, right? So I got placed with this random woman and she just kept going in this, in Valdez. And I was like, what the sh I'm trying to pedal back, but trying not to make too much ruffle. 'cause it'll, yeah, the bear was very interested in what it was doing. But anyways, so that, and then the cameras were becoming accessible and I had left art in like seventh grade. Like I was convinced by. My better is that art wasn't a future and I needed to focus on the real things, like getting a job and stuff like that. And I was very interested in physics and I wanted to be an Air Force pilot, so it was, it felt easy to let go of this, this thing that didn't have a future. But then I. Cameras became accessible and I could afford one. And I started taking pictures. And what, what happened, what I started doing is I had an, an affinity for panoramic images and I was shooting with a little pointin shoot, like this big, and it cost too much money 'cause they were still expensive back in 2006. And I was doing the like multiple captures and then stitching 'em together. And then people would be like, you could sell this. Like, this is so good. Right. And that was just, that was just motivation to keep going. And, you know, I, if I'm not really good at short answers, but 2011 rolls up, I get outta the military. I finished my bachelor's in 2012 and I started my master's. And during that time. I was getting more serious about photography. Like we talked a little bit earlier about reaching the edge of what I could do with a compact camera, and then finding out that I couldn't get a freaking job. So the only money I was making was money that I was earning with my camera selling art, because I wanted to pay for more camera gear, and it was like, well. How do I scale this? Which I didn't use those words in my head back then 'cause I didn't understand business. But it was like, this makes money. How do I make more money? So I, I have a master's degree in organizational leadership, which is like an MBA plus, a psychology degree. And I have never had a job, I after getting outta the military. 'cause I, I just won't get hired. I don't understand. I don't care anymore. But I, I, at the time it was really, really stressful. So when I started making money with photography, it started becoming like, this is, this is the thing I have to do. And then it went from there.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, military experience, master's degree, and you couldn't get a job like it. I have a

Jason Matias:

PMP too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I'm not even sure what that is. That sounds impressive. Like where were, where are these places, were you trying to get a job? I mean, were you looking for like entry level jobs you think you were trying to shoot above? What you could get? What do you think the issue was? Would take

Jason Matias:

everything off my resume and apply for dishwasher jobs and not get 'em. Really? Yeah. So, but my goal was to get, I wanted to be a consultant because my mentality was, I, I always wanted to be an engineer, but then the Air Force wouldn't pay for it, which is a whole nother story. And so, because I always wanted to work on one project and then leave it, and then work on something new. 'cause I, I didn't want to be stuck doing the same thing over and over. So with this MSOL degree, I was very qualified to be a consultant where I could work on change management for a company, then go to the next one. So I wanted to get into a consulting agency, and I've applied for the gamut of things, everything from being a dishwasher to major consulting firms all over the country. And it's just there's nothing. So the only person is a project management certificate. And, uh, that was another two year course I did, and I still couldn't get a from job. Geez.

Raymond Hatfield:

So the only person calling your name was your camera. Tell me what those days were like, because you said like 2006, you're in Alaska, you're taking photos, you enjoy it. 2011 comes around between those years you continued photography, you continued your focus and, taking photos. Is that right?

Jason Matias:

It was always a side gig or a side. I think I did it as I did other stuff as I was hiking and back country stuff. And I was more interested in putting myself in dangerous situations than I was making pictures. Right. And the camera just came along to prove it. And in between those, so after Alaska, I went to, I did a little bit of time in Afghanistan, and then I went to Nevada. And it, everything sort of backed down when I went to Nevada 'cause it's not a very pretty place. So, so it was slow. I didn't really dive in until I got outta the military. I moved myself to Hawaii and that's where I started really trying to take a better image because am competitive. I am competitive at heart. So I would go to the beach or wherever there was to take a photo and I would never, or rarely be the f the only person there. I. So I'm standing there almost shoulder to shoulder with photographers going down the beach and I'm standing there saying, how can I make something different? I. How can I do something different and better? Right? How can I do that? And that was the drive to start creating at the time landscape photography, that that was standout. And it took a while. It, you know, it didn't happen right away, but think the, the biggest key to, to creating that aesthetic that, that I've come up with now and, and creating those images that were not, is throwing everything away. Like I would go and I would take photos, and then I'd be like, this is not special. There's nothing different about it. And then I just wouldn't look at 'em anymore. And in the beginning I was throwing things away like I would delete the images, which I totally regret now. Uh, a hundred percent. I. I was just making it buy and, hard drives were super expensive, and I just didn't understand the value of saving all of those images, especially the raws. So I was literally throwing them away. It's like, this wasn't any good. Go away and today it's kind of the same way. I will go to a place, and if I'm with other, other people, they will take dozens or hundreds of photos and I'll take 20. Because I'm only looking for a specific thing, and then I think that's, that focus is what helped me become a better photographer.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Jason Matias:

Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

Let me ask you, so when you moved out to Hawaii, you had bought the DSLR by that point? Yeah, no, I bought it when I was in Hawaii. Okay. So when you made that jump from compact camera to DSLR, what was that like? Like from a technical standpoint, what was different? What was more difficult about photography for you?

Jason Matias:

Uh, nothing, everything became easier, but, so I was using a Canyon G 12 and I Oh, okay. So I had all the dials. It was like a, so it was, this is what was called an ultra compact, so mm-hmm. Like I said, it was the edge of what you could do with the compact camera, and then I, I got a. Canyon five D Mark one, and the day after I got it, like hours after I got it it, I went to the place. I've been wanting to photograph for a long time at Eternity Beach or 00 AM and I took a 20 minute photograph, which is something I just couldn't do. That was what I'd been wanting to do was take longer exposures and that photo called Eternity Beach was so up. I bought a broken camera. It was, the lens was the sensor was scratched, 40% of the pixels were dead, or maybe 30% of the pixels were dead. Horrible picture. And it took me five years to fix that image. Like I didn't release that image until 2017. Hmm. because it took, it took that long to, to figure out how to fix all the problems with it. So my first experience with a, full frame camera was. It was garbage and I had to return it the next day. But it, it didn't make things harder. It made things a lot easier. 'cause it was, it was the stuff I had been wanting to try to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

So with the Canon G 12 that you had, so had all the manual controls and this was just, you were using those now? It was, so the jump to to A-D-S-L-R essentially, it was the same. It was just in a bigger, bigger body.

Jason Matias:

Bigger body, more capable body

Raymond Hatfield:

and lenses. The G 12 was six lens. Of course. I remember, this is so stupid, I don't know why I'm bringing this up. This was the Canon G 11, I believe was the only reason why I had an Amazon card for the longest time because if you signed a, if. 'cause I bought it and then they said, if you sign up for the card, we're gonna give you a hundred dollars off. And I was just like, uh, that's a no brainer. Of course I'm gonna do that. And yeah, I mean, it was a fantastic camera, but I, I completely understand what you're saying about how it has these limitations. And I think there are a lot of people who, the G 12. Sub com or compact camera, that's gonna be more than enough for them. So what was the one thing that when you were using it, you're just like, I just can't use this anymore. A-D-S-L-R is what's going to solve my problem? I. I couldn't take a photograph that was longer than 30 seconds. So it was the exposure, it was the exposure times that you were looking for. Okay. Yeah. I gotcha. And, and the fixed lens held you back a lot. Right. Okay. So when you got these cameras, right, you're in the military, you're in Alaska, where were you learning photography

Jason Matias:

from? I wasn't, it was just trial on error, but when, when I was in, so my first camera was a. SD 700, I can't believe I remember this. It was a Canon SD 700, which was just, just a point and shoot right. With a few features on it. So there was nothing for me to learn. It was just take the picture. Mm-hmm. Um, and then edit it afterward. And we were just talking, I don't know if it's before this thing started or if we're just gonna start the podcast where we started talking about outsourcing and. That was my first experience outsourcing 'cause stitching those photos together. I used to send them to someone who worked for my dad in the Philippines and then she would stitch 'em all together for me because, because I. guess the first roadblock I ran into is I would try to use the function in the camera to stitch them together to create that panoramic, and it would never really work, so then I would take the pictures individually and then send them off. I didn't look at any education in photography. I. For years, which is pretty stupid. But now that I think about that, is it, I don't, like I, I know you said, you know, just read the manual. There's so much in there, but yeah. Maybe it's not stupid, but it was just trial and error. Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

And

Jason Matias:

then me applying, I guess, what I knew about composition at the time, or just my, my own kind of eye for things.

Raymond Hatfield:

If you could go back, would you have chosen some sort of photography education? Because I mean, I look at you today and like you're here, you're a professional photographer, like you're pretty accomplished. Like, where do you think that plays a role

Jason Matias:

man, getting here sooner. if I started earlier on social media with good images, I could be in a whole different place today. Right. Like I, when I hit social media with intention was about the time when organic reach stopped.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason Matias:

Right. And there's, there's tons of, of artists out there who were in it before and they exploded with their reach and selling artwork is about getting more eyes in your work. Right. And then some of selling artwork is having that clout that says you have earned all of these eyes. So I, I feel like if I had done all of that stuff sooner, then I could be in, in a different place, I suppose, or in the same place, but I. Better off. I, I, I don't know. Like I'm pretty, if if, if old me looked at where I am now, he'd probably be like, you made it. But I think he just didn't understand what, what, what it was to run a business and stuff like that. But yeah, I, I think just, I sharpening the curve. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you think that you would still be able to be the artist that you are today in terms of being able to tell the stories that you see if you didn't have those years of just, I guess, self exploration?

Jason Matias:

Yeah, so the story and the art or two different things. Yeah. Like the story is you understanding yourself and being able to digest and then export that stuff. Right. And then the, the camera skills a whole different thing. I think I could, I think that it was photography that forced me to do that self-exploration, that personal growth. So maybe if I had gotten started sooner, a lot of things might have been different.

Raymond Hatfield:

But you could play this game all day. Let's just move on and just forget that. Pass there. I wanna learn more about where you are today in, in your photography, obviously, and as a fine art photographer. I think it's always interesting talking with fine art photographers because I think with listeners of the podcast, there's kind of this confusion, I suppose, of exactly what fine art is. So before we kind of get into some of your art and how it is that you see the world. Can you tell us what is fine art and what makes it different than snapshots or just regular art, I suppose context.

Jason Matias:

I think art equals creativity plus context. So without context, all you have is creativity or decorations and context is, is everything. That's what goes deeper. Like a visual will help an audience get their attention, and then people can ascribe their own story to whatever they see if they want. But most of the time it stays as surface level engagement. Yeah. And then context is what brings people in. And context can be anything. It can be personal, it can be like relative to yourself. Like if you read a lot of the stories on my website that are attached to the pictures, they're not about the pictures. I don't tell stories about how I took a photograph. I told the story of myself and, and what I was thinking and what I'm feeling when I'm writing the story, basically. And then, then the photograph fits the story somehow. And it's that context that brings you in. So it could be context about yourself, it could be context about what's happening in the world today, greater human relative philosophy, but without the context, you just have a piece of creativity. So I think fine art and art is separated by, by that piece of equation.

Raymond Hatfield:

Geez, Ja. I don't, I don't think I've ever heard it described like that. And that, that really gets the wheels moving for sure. So we're not talking about intention. ' cause I guess anybody who's shooting in manual is shooting with intention. So is the con The context is a story that we're trying to tell. Mm-hmm. So we already know the story that needs to be told. That's the context, and then it's the tool of the camera that we're using to simply be able to tell that story. Yeah. Wow. I love it. So tell me when did this first happen for you? Because you were going out and just taking snapshots of bears. I. And today that's probably what very little of your body of work is, is comprised of. when did that switch from snapshots to, or I guess when did that light bulb moment finally go off for you and you, you start to switch the way that you shoot so that it does have more context.

Jason Matias:

It happened on Facebook. Like, I actually remember this 'cause it's really important to like my growth, but someone had commented, I think his name was Ben, about the boats that they see in my photos. 'cause I, I was taking photos and, and in all of the compositions there was a boat, like in the distance or, or somewhere by itself. Just one, like a yacht or a sailboat or something. And he was like. he said something about, it's cool, I like seeing all these boats. And I started thinking about it and that, I think that was like the catalyst for me finding my way into this thing that I call comfortable isolation. and just having that, that solitary object. And then I started looking for that composition and creating that composition. Right. And I have a whole lonely boat series, on my website that's just, of the boats, but also the more my image developed. So that was the catalyst. But then 2014 maybe I started asking myself why I like this and why is it important and why am I composing this way? And that's kind of when the next big leap in me solving my issues. Right? Like photography was my, my therapist, I guess not, not in a therapeutic way, but just in, in a way of forcing me to ask questions and I, I just, I started digging deeper into, into that, that whole thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

It's just always fun to hear like the journey that people go through, and I'm there with you. I like when it comes to figuring out something about yourself through your photography, there really isn't much cooler because suddenly your work becomes your own and nobody else can take the same photos that you're taking. And it really is all that, that experience that you have. But I wanna, I wanna know more about your comfortable isolation series, because this is a pretty predominant, you know? So where did, did this idea come from? What made you come realize, oh wait, I am doing it this way. Why don't I continue to do this?

Jason Matias:

Oh man. Okay, It came from some abuse I experienced as a kid. It was like seven or eight and my reaction to it. So I spent my whole adolescence probably up until I was 22, which I remember when this started. Ending. Angry and unable to make friends and distrusting of my own feelings and thoughts, which is something that still goes on today. Because of the way things played out when I was seven or eight, I felt like I couldn't trust what I was thinking. So anytime I would have a feeling or, have a goal or have you, I just, I felt like this is what I want, but is it what I want? Or this is what happened, but did it happen that way? And I just wasn't able to trust it. So I ended up, as I was a kid, just closing into my own little circle and it sort of developed this thing in psychology called the other. I. One of my first things I wanted to be when growing up was a psychologist. And I don't know why 'cause it was a psychologist that fucked me up. But, um, this thing called the other, which is sort of like a filter between my experience and my reaction, and some people would say, oh, that's meditation. You choosing your thoughts. But I didn't get to choose. It was just the filter and it caused me to be angry. I wrote a poem when I was a kid called a Devil's State of Mind, and it described me getting angry, going to bed, waking it up just as angry, and then spending the day getting angrier. And I would just go on cycles like that, just getting madder and madder that forced me to be sort of this isolated person. Right. But then I spent a lot of time in my head and it's not really such a bad thing. at, at the end of that, getting into 20, 22, 23, 24, that's sort of. Walls became a home, and then became a place where I could talk to myself. And then as I worked its way into the art, into my awareness, it started working. Right? So, so the way I describe comfortable isolation is those conversations with ourselves, that's how we grow, right? In psychology, we don't mature until we confront our beliefs and nowadays it those, so those. Discussions with ourselves. There's times where you have to sit in and really confront what you think and what you believe is a hard thing to do. It's just difficult to have that inner monologue. It's even more difficult today because we can pick up our phone and distract ourselves. It's like, oh shit. Bad thoughts coming in. I have to do this work. I'm gonna text my girlfriend, right? Or I'm gonna watch TV or watch a video or go out with the boys or something. And it's really easy to avoid that. So when I started thinking more about it, I want to create spaces where you could have those conversations in your head comfortably. You can be alone and confront yourself and, and have that, but be comfortable being alone. And it morphed into me being isolated behind my walls, to me embracing it to me, creating those places where you could embrace it.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's beautiful. Isolation. Yeah. Wow. That's powerful and that's very beautiful. So in the photos, 'cause I can think of some in my head, I'm sure that we'll have some in the show notes if anybody has any, or they want to get an idea of what your photos from comfortable isolation looks like. So describe to me like what elements go into, I. A photo that fit the serious comfortable isolation.

Jason Matias:

So there's two ways to be isolated and you can be in a space with nothing, or you can be in a space with so much that. You still feel alone? Mm-hmm. Right. So quietness and cacophony. When I'm creating images like this, what I want to have is a, a singular subject in a open, soft space. So Edge of Solace is kind of one of my best pieces. Solitude is one of one of my lonely boats that fits this the most. One of my favorites is a piece called Room for One, but it's called Room for One in their Dreams. And that's a piece from Bali. It's a hammock in the water, which is also a lonely boat. Serious picture. and then the flip side of that is being in so much detail and noise that you're still alone. And this is how I describe being in New York City. Like you can, you have all of this stuff happening around you, but you're still alone. And people feel alone in big cities even though there's so much around them because all of that noise doesn't really matter to you or isn't really part of what's happening. It's just, it just surrounds you and envelopes you just like nothing this would, so it's high fidelity information, lots of detail all over the place and edge to edge content. In all of my, my new work, especially, there is no images that are sort of, have a lot of stuff and then a little bit of something else. It's either all information or the isolated thing and images that I have like that are of vent. Sova, tree of fire, I don't have many, 'cause those are kind of hard to make that look good. There's a piece called Autumn, which is just, leaves just doesn, buzzes and leaves edge to edge.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so this idea of isolation, if. If we were to go to therapy and a therapist were to say, close your eyes and think of a, a quiet and like a serene place. I think we all think of somewhere out in nature. Right? And it seems as though most of your work is out in nature. You know, I don't see you going to corporate parties and taking photos. It's all about nature. Is that intentional? Is that for that reason because of how it makes us feel inside?

Jason Matias:

No. Well, nature doesn't argue with you, right? I don't have to tell nature to pose. You just, you just show up and you get what you get and I think that's what makes a lot of landscape photographers start with landscape, right? There's, there's no nothing to confront except nature. So I started with landscapes. Mostly because I was afraid to take pictures of people

Raymond Hatfield:

but bears were okay getting nose to nose with a bear. That was cool. But you don't have a choice. That just happens. Right. Okay. Okay.

Jason Matias:

Honestly, I was 20 times more scared when I was nose to nose with a moose. Oh geez. A bear, right? I don't wanna do either of those things. Yeah. A moose will kill you for no reason and then not even eat, you just. Stop on you till it's bored and then leave. No thanks. So yeah, I think that's one of the reasons a lot of people start with landscape photography, and that's why I started my, so I have a, another collection called Aria, which deals a lot with these stories that I've had a lot inside me and, and the stories of the subject that I'm working with. But, those are portraits and it took me years to get into portraits because I was afraid of them. And that's actually, uh, one of the things I'm most proud of is these portraits, but landscapes. I forgot your question again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Raymond Hatfield:

I given on a tangent. I love it. It's all about like why nature, like what is it that does it for you when it comes to nature?

Jason Matias:

Um, nothing, nothing. Zero things has to do with being in nature. It's just being alone and nature provides a whole lot of subjects that you can take pictures of and you get to be alone if you want when you go out there. I always see, and this is just like a contention I have and I try to dissuade all of my students from, from this narrative where like, going out to nature makes me feel connected to nature or, or whatever, because I think that's BS what you're trying to do is connect with yourself in some way, and I think you can do that. You don't have to go into nature to do that, right? Mm-hmm. So yeah, I think that that all happens in my head, the whole isolation thing that just, that happens in my head. And then I used nature to create those, but as, as my art sort of grows and I become less stuck in this, the stringent world of what landscape photography is supposed to be and start working with more manipulations and composites. It's not entirely necessary for me create a photo of nature or something like that. Mm-hmm. So like Edge of Solace is a composite. And there's pictures that I've been wanting to create for a long time that are, there's nature included, like solitude is a boat floating in a very white sea, right fog and on a lake. What have you, what I really wanna create is a boat sailing through the clouds. Mm. Still nature, right? There's still that, that element and beauty that comes from, from what's in the natural world, but I want it to look so freaking real and just like in, in the clouds. So still the isolation. So there's still the aesthetic that I'm looking for, but not necessarily nature.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. I like that. The nature natural elements, but it can still be yours. You can still create it even if even through a composite. That's very cool to think about. I wanna know more about when I go on your website, I can tell just how important printed work is having, by the way, shout out to that dog. Whatever dog is going nuts, I hear. Yeah. That's my dog. His name's Loki. Loki. Okay. Yeah. Well, he living up to his name here. So when I go to your website, I can definitely see why, or I can see how important printing is for you and having something physical that you can have. But I guess I. In a world where people take photos and they just live on their phones. I guess what I wanna know is why is printing so important to you?

Jason Matias:

Well, I mean that, that's kind of how I make money. I guess. It's not finished till it's printed. There's a tangible aspect of, of being, of having art. And being able to experience it. And up until this whole NFT thing that's, that's going on right now, the only way for people to consume art was as a physical piece, of whatever. And so the end product of, like I talked about, not getting a job and then making money with photography, right? I was taking pictures doesn't make you any money. not me anyway. Selling them does. So the print comes from the sale, but having, that finished product be as match your intention and the aesthetic you wanna create is super important. Are you selling NFTs? Can you talk to me more about that? Yeah. It's a major part of my business right now. And making the leap from traditional art to, to NFTs was a bit of a mind hurdle for me. Mm-hmm. So, nf t if, if you haven't heard yet, whoever's listening is a non fungible token. It is a digital Well, it is. It is a. It signifies ownership of an asset.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm. And

Jason Matias:

that asset could be a digital image or a physical asset in the real world, a piece of property of some sort. So when you sell an NFT, you're selling ownership as an artist. You're selling ownership of, a piece of art. And because it's on blockchain. The ownership of that art is tracked forever. Right. So when someone has the Excalibur sword, right, and it's in a museum, it's like this sword was owned by Prince Egypt of the second Tuesday of last Wednesday, you know, whatever. It's got a whole, yeah. A history. And now as artists, we can have a history of all of our work, which allows us to. Well, I mean, it's to command a little bit more value from it and it allows people who are buying it to, to add value and trade it. So NFTs are like digital trading cards and yeah, they're a big thing. They're right now, and they're going to continue to be a big thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so few questions. I'm very new to all this, so excuse any ignorance that I may have. So, I often describe to my couples, in my contract it says that I still own the rights to the images. You get the images right. And the way that I explain it is, if I were to buy a copy of a book, I own the book, but I can't sell that book, right? Like, I don't own the words in that book. I just physically own a copy of that book. It's the author who owns that book. It's the same with photography. So with NFTs here, it sounds like once you sell the book, You're selling everything inside of it. Like you're selling the words, you're selling the ideas, thinking No. Okay. Can you, can you break down so you can sell that book

Jason Matias:

Uhhuh, you bought a book. You don't own the intellectual property inside the book, but you own the book.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm. And

Jason Matias:

you can take it and sell it back to the bookstore.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure.

Jason Matias:

Right. But in the case of a book, there is wear and tear and it becomes a secondhand thing that doesn't hold the same physical value because of the time that is spent in a non pristine condition with the NFT, you still have a perfectly preserved piece of whatever you bought in this case, art, and you can go sell it. And because it has a value of some sort, whatever it is, a attributed to the value, which is you as an artist and its prior trading, this prior sale price, you can command that sales price for higher when you sell it. So let's take, uh, you don't own the Mona Lisa when you don't own the intellectual property of the Mona Lisa, but you could still sell the piece of art if you own it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So is that also what's going on? So, as a photographer, you still own the intellectual property of the photograph. Mm-hmm. Even after selling it as an NFT. Yep. Okay.

Jason Matias:

so nobody has the rights to, if they buy a piece from me, they don't have the rights to go mass produce it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Jason Matias:

They can only sell the one piece. That is the piece that I created in, in the piece that I sold. And because the history is tracked mm-hmm. All the way back to when I minted it or when I put it on blockchain, the buyer, I. The market knows that it is my work.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Jason Matias:

And that's authentic.

Raymond Hatfield:

So what sorts of images are selling most as NFTs, I suppose, because I'm not gonna be selling, well, I'm not gonna be selling photos of my couples. Right? Like

Jason Matias:

you could, but probably not because Okay, you could, 'cause you own the property, right? But you gonna find an audience that wants to take pictures of, or that wants to buy pictures of other people's marriages, right? Maybe not. So the the thing about, and the thing that held me back from doing portraits in general was that I didn't think I could sell them 'cause who, who would wanna buy something with someone else's face on? But if you. Uh, part of that was just my lack of maturity in art because if you look at what sells in art in, in the high end art world, it's portraits, pictures of people because it's a face that you can attribute and you can put yourself in those shoes and whatever emotions are there. But honestly, what's sold more is my portraits. So I, I have an angel series that I am still working on now that is already sold for this one project. And then what's really cool about NFTs is I'm, I get to sell stuff that I'd never thought I could sell before, Halloween images, like these creative images that I created, fantasy type Halloween stuff. I never spent any time on those in the past because they, they weren't income generating items. But yeah. So creative portraits, random or generative art, which is art landscape photography is, is selling. Shoot. There's a guy named Justin Aver something. He did a whole series called, twin flames. And those are kind of regular pictures of twins as sets. And they're selling for hundreds of TI think one just sold for like 300 E, which is a lot of money. Yeah. 300 times 4,000, $600. So

Raymond Hatfield:

over a million dollars. So are people buying them? Are they following say you as the artist? Or are they searching for certain types of images and they're seeing them and then they, they purchase them at that point? How does that work? Right now, personal

Jason Matias:

branding is really, really important in the NFT space and people are discovering you through social media, through the persona you're creating, and then putting out there and search functions on NFT Marketplaces are kind of behind. Like I can't go to open, see and type in blue wave Portugal and it'll come up with something that exactly what I'm looking for. A lot of the sales that are coming are from direct marketing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Jason Matias:

Uh, and a lot of organic growth.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So for new photographers, like just getting started looking to start making money with their photography, this is something that. Maybe it's a few years off. Is this something that No, it's tomorrow. They could,

Jason Matias:

it's tomorrow. You do it tomorrow. There's 15 year olds making hundreds of thousands of selling figure drawings. And there's a series called Long Necks or Neck. I think she's like a 11-year-old girl millionaire now because she created something that, that, lots of people love. Mm-hmm. And NFTs offer ownership of art to people who never thought or never looked twice at a piece of art. Like, yeah. in marketing I have this, this whole thing. People are either not problem aware, problem aware or actively searching for a solution or ready to buy, right? Mm-hmm. And the NFT space has taken all the people who are not problem aware and shown them that art's a real thing that they can own. And there's so many buyers who are coming in who have we talked about, like maturity in, in your experience with art who have none of that. So they're not coming in with any preconceived or cultural education about art. They just see they like, and then they buy it. And it, and it is offering the ability to own stuff, which is why we have anything. That's why anyone collects anything. It doesn't have any value. The Chas are. Pokemon card that's like 300 and something thousand dollars right now, doesn't have any real value. It's not gonna save your life. But because someone owns it and because other people wanna own it, it has value. So the NFT market is, is creating that for, for artists and exposing a whole lot more people to it. So yeah, if you're a photographer and you you're creating something that has art plus context and great visual and all that, then you should be in NFTs yesterday. Interesting.

Raymond Hatfield:

So where does this put you in terms of, I guess, do you see print going away in the future in lieu of NFTs? Like, are people just gonna have TVs in their house? Constantly rotating their NFTs that they have. Or am I thinking about this all wrong?

Jason Matias:

I think some people will 'cause people own them and they wanna display 'em. And I think it's gonna force at some point. 'cause still the NFT market is still really small, like hundreds of millions of dollars have sold this year, uh, from NFTs in the last 10 months. But it's still small in a $16 billion art business, art world. And I'm already seeing like people who have bought my work, they have their digital screens up and some of those people have gone and bought physical stuff from me too. Hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

And

Jason Matias:

so I don't think there's a, there's not gonna. Wholly or suddenly replace the physical art market until those screens become better than the physical products for, for digital products. And if you're a photographer, you're creating a digital product there's this idea that there's gonna be a metaverse or a digital place where we live and we already live there. Like we spend all our time on our phones and on this digital communication. So we are kind of in a digital world, right? We're just not experiencing it in a three dimensional way, this is still a two dimensional interaction, but when that three dimensional interaction comes and people can have a home in a digital space that has walls, that's where the art's gonna go and all of the art that's sold now. 15 years before 5, 15, 10, 15 years before that metaverse really, really exists for everybody. You have first mover advantage and you have, that provenance of, of being here and being first out there. So, I think it's a big thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

You've brought to light a lot of things that I've wondered, but have never, I guess, fully understood about NFTs before. So I'm sure that a lot of listeners are gonna maybe think twice about NFTs as well and think, huh, maybe I could do something with this. 'cause it does it, I mean, I see what you're saying. It does really sound interesting and I'm starting to see how the pieces are, are fitting together for how this, how they can be used in the future with things like, as you're saying, the metaverse and obviously Facebook came out and said that they're starting a new, uh, yeah,

Jason Matias:

they're gonna build. They got, they're gonna build it first.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's

Jason Matias:

an

Raymond Hatfield:

interesting idea. Well, thank you. Uh, there's a, there's a lot to think about there. I feel like my brain is so spinning. I wanna keep talking about your photography, your art, because I know that when it comes to photography, there's a lot of photographers who, what's the quote? We all get into a creative endeavor because we have good taste, right? Everybody has their own version of good taste, and that's why we get into it because we feel like we would be good at that thing. But then it is our own good taste that tells us that as a beginner, we're like, this is garbage, and then we get out of it. So you have to push through that, which you did. But then at some point you have to continue to draw inspiration from somewhere else. So for you and your, your work, where do you draw inspiration from? What keeps you going, aside from being unemployable? What keeps you going in photography?

Jason Matias:

There's a challenge to, to creating what's in your head and doing it well. And like, like I said, I'm a pretty competitive person. So the challenge of, of that, like this, that image I described to you earlier, the, boat sailing to the sky. I wanna do it in, in such a way that it makes you feel like it's real because it, it's a di digital version and you can just create a digital piece of art and call it a boat in the sky and whatnot. But there's, you know that whatever I. Pizazz that I have with my work that I want to create in that type of, visual. So I guess having ideas is what keeps me going. And there are definitely times when I don't have ideas and you just, then the business of art just kind of keeps me going, right, because that's a constant endeavor. But then you have ideas and you feel inspired. Like with this angel collection I'm doing so yeah. So collaborations, getting into other projects and, and helping other people achieve certain visions also is a major motivator for me. And artists selling art is another one. 'cause now one of the things that keeps me going is I have to keep performing to kind of maintain my position as a teacher, so I gotta keep staying on the game. And then seeing and helping all those artists with their businesses and helping them succeed is also kind of like rewarding in a way that keeps me going. So it's never, it's no single one thing. I think the biggest driver is the challenge of just trying to create something that people like.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a difficult thing, right? We play that game in our head of, well, I like this idea, but will everybody else like it? And if not, what does that say about me and my work at that point? That's cool. I got one last question for you here, and that is, this is a new question that I have for this year. The theme of this year is really just trying to, I'm trying to kickstart people to actually go out and take photos, right? There are people who, I can't tell you how many people just listen to this podcast and then they don't go out and take photos. And I hope that they're listening right now. Right? And it's my job to compel them to go out and actually take a photo. So learning about your process a little bit is something that is important to me. So you have an idea for a photo, right? For your creative process. Would you rather go out and take a thousand photos or would you rather go out and find that you only have one space for one more photo on that memory card and live within that constraint of only being able to take that one photo to get the perfect shot?

Jason Matias:

I think there's a lot of creativity and restriction or creativity and constraints to use that term. And that's one of the excuses I would tell myself or justify myself for not buying more lenses. 'cause I, this is the lens I have, this is the constraint I live in. I have to make it work and force the creative part to take over from the assortment of possibilities for, for technical use. So having one photo left would force me to take more time to create that photo, right? Mm-hmm. And I already said I only take a, like, I only take a few photos at a time. So yeah. Option

Raymond Hatfield:

BI love it. Jason again, man, I have to say thank you for coming on and sharing everything that you did today before I let you go, where can listeners find out more about you? Your work and what it is that you do online.

Jason Matias:

So my website is jason mathias.com and then on social, I'm real, Jason Mathias on uh, Twitter and Facebook.

Raymond Hatfield:

Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with a friend. Start a conversation, grow together. That is it for this week. Remember, the more that you shoot today. The better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow. Talk soon. Thank you for listening to The Beginner Photography podcast. Keep shooting and we'll see you next week.