The Beginner Photography Podcast

A Photographers Journey to Preserve the Natural World with Harry Skeggs

• Raymond Hatfield

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#356 This podcast follows Harry Skeggs, a fine art wildlife photographer, to discuss the impact and importance of photography in preserving the world. He motivates listeners to take a tool in their hands to influence the world and bring awareness to issues near and far. He shares his story of not knowing the value of photography until he was forced to have time for himself due to an accident, and ended up winning runner-up in a Nat Geo Photography of the Year competition.

The Big Ideas with Timestamps

  • 00:03:09 Learn art to take better photos.
  • 00:11:43 Animals are family members.
  • 00:13:39 Follow your passion.
  • 00:22:52 Tell a story before taking photos.
  • 00:27:00 Protect animals we love.
  • 00:30:06 Wildlife conservation is essential.
  • 00:39:03 Make mistakes to improve photography.
  • 00:43:15 Be the change you want.

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Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Harry Skeggs:

One thing which is really important to me is that narrative has to predate image. Often what happens, particularly in the fine art world, is people take a photograph and they superimpose some artificial narrative on it. And it always feels artificial. And I'm the other way around. really believe that you go out with an objective. You have a narrative that you want to talk about long before. And the reason that's important, I think, for me is You're working in this manic, chaotic world where things are just changing by the second, and you're looking for this single moment in time, you know, which tells you a message. I think if you don't know what that message is, there's just too much going on. If you've got that narrative in your head already, you can really isolate the scenes that work to tell that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to episode 356 of the Beginner Photography Podcast brought to you by CloudSpot. You know that they are the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we are chatting with fine art wildlife photographer, Harry Skeggs about using your camera to preserve the world around us. Let me ask you a question. Is, I don't know, 3, 000 life changing amount of money. Now, while 3, 000 in high school, to me, it seemed like a lot. More than it is today, I think that most people would say that 3, 000 cash is not life changing money, right? You're not going to move into a mansion or travel carefree for the rest of your life with 3, 000 It'll make a difference, but it's not gonna change your life But as a photographer, we have the power to take a tool in our hands that you know Many times cost less than 3, 000 and create or capture something that can change your life Not only somebody's life, but an exponential amount of people's lives for the better, you know, preserve the joy of a child laughing showcase the wonder of lands and cultures from far away or bring awareness to a, voiceless wildlife creature and that is exactly what today's guest Harry Skeggs does and today we find out how you too can use your camera to make an impact on the world. With that, let's go ahead and get on into today's podcast interview with Harry Skeggs. When did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Harry Skeggs:

Uh, it's a good question. I mean, much later than I think than many photographers. I actually, I studied fine art at university. I wanted to be a painter amongst other things. And very much when we were being taught about fine art, photography was always kind of excluded from that canon. You know, the skill was in painting and sculpture and architecture and all those kind of traditional, mediums. we're really kind of actually taught to look down on photography, which is a real sadness. So it wasn't actually until I had an accident, I broke some bones and sort of. give me some time to go traveling and just think about things. and I picked up a camera and I was really bad, really bad. And it was the first time that I realized that there is so much more skill in the making of a photograph and of taking a photograph that in the physical act of clicking a button, anyone can do, but so can, you know, anyone can pick up a brush and anyone can make marks on a canvas. That's not the skill, you know, and it's, it always takes me back that, that famous Ansel Adams, quote, which is. And the most important part of any camera is the 12 inches behind it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes.

Harry Skeggs:

And I'm a big believer in that. So yeah, so there was this, this kind of set me off on this path where suddenly there's this art form, which I was terrible at and in my mind, I thought it should be easy. And so I kind of got a little bit obsessive. This was about 22, 23. so about 10 years ago. and. I just went away and just learned it myself, really. never had any lessons and just made mistake after mistake and just taught myself how to fix them. Um, and it was actually My girlfriend at the time, now my wife, she encouraged me to enter into a competition. I'd never done anything with my photographs before, and I entered, rather boldly, I entered Nat Geo Photography of the Year. and I came runner up, so I didn't win, but I came runner up, and having never done anything, and suddenly, you know, to get recognition on that level was pretty surprising, and it was the first time I think I felt like, well, actually, you know, maybe people want to see these. and then about, Three or four months later I got this letter from Sir David Attenborough who'd seen my portfolio, and, had lots of nice things to say and it was just like, wow, it's sort of turning, turning point when I was just like, well, maybe there's more to this than just trying to perfect it for myself.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Okay. Wow. So many questions that I got there from that. Um, first, let's just start at the beginning. You said that you went to school for fine art. that's right. But photography was looked down upon. So were you, were you focusing on, on painting or what was the focus?

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah. so I studied at, Magdalen, Cambridge, and I, my focus was particularly, sculpture. so I, I painted for myself, but, I wrote my dissertation on Benigni, the Baroque sculptor. and it was a really great foundation, I think, in, in, um, What is it that makes art, you know, and I became very aware later in my, my photographic career that all of these principles that you learn in painting and sculpture and, and, the whole canon of time. They apply just as much to photography as they do anything else. You know, so when people often ask me you know what school should I go to photography what, you know, how should I learn photography. I always tell them don't learn the camera. Anyone can do that. don't even learn, you know, I don't think it's a great idea to look at what other photographers are doing, because you want to be unique. Look at art, you know, look at fine art. a lot of these lessons are the absolute pivotal underpinning of everything that we do. and just as applicable, really. So it's kind of good. You know, they did look down on it, but it was kind of good. Cause I was allowed to discover it myself, which was quite nice.

Raymond Hatfield:

So at what point, you know, when you got the camera, you were injured, you had this camera, you had some free time, you started taking photos, you realized that it wasn't as easy as you expected. What made you decide to continue? Was it simply the challenge or was there a certain photo that you thought, Hey, actually, I see something here. I want to pursue that.

Harry Skeggs:

I think so. It was really noticeable. I got home and I've been on this trip. I've been to Brazil for about, three or four months and I'd seen just amazing things. Things that I'd never seen before blew my mind. I thought were just life changing. And when I showed people the pictures, there was little to no emotional reaction. You know, it's just like, Oh, that's nice. That's nice. You know, the worst word in art. Nice. And I realized I just really failed to capture what I saw. but what I did learn was. Photography has a real, difference, I think, to any other art in that it's complete. There is, well, in its purest form, so when you don't do Photoshop and these kind of things, in its purest form, it is ultra realistic. You had to be there, you know, so you are sharing a real experience, and there's that kind of, authenticity to that. You know, when I was painting, you know, you could easily just, you could see a beautiful, scenery and you could just add in a subject from your mind, and there's an art to that, but I love the fact that. When people look at my works, they know that I had to see that with my eyes, and I'm just sharing a window into a world that actually exists. And I think that's, that's pretty, pretty amazing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Yeah, of course. especially to be able to see the things that, uh, that you do see and the things that you capture and share those with the world. I'm glad that you stuck with photography to, uh, to be able to continue to share those things, the way that you see them. But you said that you were also self taught as well. That couldn't have been easy. What were some of the challenges that you had when learning photography on your own?

Harry Skeggs:

Well, I was, I was very naive about equipment generally. And I, um, I basically like many people do assume that my photos are bad because I had bad camera. So I fell into that, that picture. so I bought, DSLR, the first one I kind of found at a reasonable price, on eBay and it was a D40 and a D40 doesn't have an internal motor. I didn't know anything about that at that time. I then bought a Tamron lens, which had no motor either. So, you know, it's manual focus. They also didn't, auto meter together as well. So it was auto metering, all this kind of stuff. So I was forced into learning manual thinking that's how it's done. You know, I just thought that's really hard, and sort of really struggled with it for a long time, but it was such a great, induction because, you know, I had to learn to do. Wildlife photography, moving subjects in manual focus, manual everything that when I was eventually got hold of a 7000 I think it was, which did all that, autofocus, autometer and suddenly I was like, wow, this is incredible. But what's great about that is that it means that you can rely on the auto features, the autofocus, but in the times that you don't, and you know, at the times that it's hindering you, particularly through grass and through, through cover and that kind of stuff, You have that sort of muscle memory to rely on, and I'm a huge believer that, the difference between sort of holiday snaps and art in photography is that you are controlling the camera, you're telling the camera what to do and you're making those artistic decisions yourself. Whereas if you rely on auto all the time, you're creating probably very well exposed photographs. But there aren't artistic decisions there. the camera is doing the thinking. and I like to kind of retain as much of that as possible.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, yeah. I've always been the kind of person who like, even if I can't fix something, I at least want to know how does it work. Yeah, exactly. So that in kind of put these things together.

Harry Skeggs:

And then you don't make that mistake again. You know, I think, I think it's a really good skill for any photographer at any level to look at your photographs and really critically assess what's what works and what doesn't. And you know, be kind to yourself because there are always more things that are good than bad, I think. but ask yourself why doesn't it quite, why is it not a 10? and what is that and what would I have done differently next time? I do it too much, sort of innate, like I, I don't hang very many of my own works because generally I just see what could have been better and that kind of thing. But, there is a happy medium for sure, but I think it's a good skill all the same.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, actually I'm going to save this question for later because that is, that is a good one right there. so you went to school for fine art. For sculpting, where today you photograph wildlife, were you planning on sculpting animals or when did wildlife get into the picture for you? No pen. I'm

Harry Skeggs:

sorry. Um, So I studied fine art, so it was the study of art rather than like a actual art, course as it were, so it's the history of art, and I painted on the side, but never, we never studied really, we never really studied the art of wildlife as an art form, and one of the early, so I mean for me it was very obvious, I always, I always wanted to take photographs of wildlife, I mean it was very subconscious really, I just found myself, particularly when I was out on this first trip to Brazil, I would, you know, I'd be in front of the Corcovado, you know, the Christ Redeemer, and I would take one photograph, click, move on. But the ring tailed coati, which are basically the raccoons out there, I would spend, you know, an hour, two hours photographing them coming out of rubbish bins. You know what I mean? so it was very intuitive. And I, I sort of, in the course of my career, I've thought back as to why that is. And, I grew up in this really, you know, animal centric household, where dogs were family members more than more than pets, you know, and I really saw that each of these animals had such distinct personalities and characters. And from an early age I was big believer that animals are just as sentient as humans have a soul as much as humans have a soul. And we are all animals and I think it's easy to forget that. so when people say I'm taking a portrait, and they mean a human, that is actually no different to taking a portrait of a gorilla, which is also an ape. so I'm a big believer that we're all this, all this animal kingdom together. but yeah, it was that, that childhood upbringing, I think just, immersed in, in animals and their personalities made it really resonate for me.

Raymond Hatfield:

So it was just a natural extension when you picked up a camera to be like, these are things that I like to photograph.

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah. And I think that's important for anyone, whether or not you're interested in wildlife photography, photograph the things that really interest you. personally, because that's the thing that'll keep you getting up early in the morning and spending hours, not minutes. if you are photographing from something you are passionate about, you'll do it every day. And that's how you improve.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Okay. Oh my gosh. I find that to be very difficult for a lot of people. I think that it's because I could be wrong here, but it's like, I think that anybody who really gets into photography has good taste, right? It's good taste to them, right? They know what it is that they like. They know what it is that they don't like. so they're naturally just going to photograph the things that they like. But when it comes time to going any further with photography, like you have to make it a profession, it's very scary to continue to follow those things. And you almost just want to kind of fall back and photograph like the safe things, like weddings or portraits.

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah, totally. Whether it's an industry.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Harry Skeggs:

yeah. And I think, you know, that, that makes a lot of sense. What I would say to that is, is don't give up what your passion is. If you need that to support yourself, a lot of people need to do weddings on the side to, to support themselves. And that's totally understood and totally fair enough. I can see why they would do that, but don't let that take over because otherwise they can just take out the passion. You know, a lot of people I know who've done weddings end up just falling out of love and that's such a shame. So use it to support yourself, for sure. Um, but I think. You know, the beauty of photography is that pretty much everyone on earth has, has access to some form of camera, so we're all photographers, but if we all start trying to do the same things as everyone else, because we think that's what people like, all we're going to do is just create the same type of imagery and you're not going to be different, and it's so hard in this world to stand out. I think you're much better just finding your voice and sticking to that.

Raymond Hatfield:

And that right there is the key to just standing out to yourself.

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah, we all have, you know, I find it very interesting. I lead tours, client tours, a couple of times a year. And, I find it very interesting. Even if you have complete amateur photographers, you put six people in the jeep, same sighting, fix wildly different photographs. You know, we all see things very differently. And I actually think amateur photographers, or, complete beginners, have that ability to see completely uniquely because they've not been told to do all this, you know, rule of thirds doesn't have to be rule of thirds. The composition is a language to be broken, to be used. whereas I think, you know, the more you sort of start being taught things, you get more, pigeonholed into doing things a certain way. And I think that's a mistake. I think if it works for you, great, but ask yourself, does it work for you? Or does it Wow.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So anybody who's listening, you heard Harry say it right here. Just go ahead and turn off this podcast. Stop trying to learn and just go out and shoot for yourself and try to, uh, make a name for yourself and do that. no, I, I totally understand what you're saying. And I feel the same way, I think that's one of the challenges of social media today is that, on top of seeing other people's photographs, we also equate likes or engagement for the quality of the work. And that's a difficult thing. When you were getting into photography, there wasn't really that, it wasn't as predominant as it is today. Did you find it easier to follow your voice because of that?

Harry Skeggs:

I think it certainly helps. And, you look at Instagram and it's an amazing resource, but at the same time, it breeds repetitiveness. same as TikTok, you know, you follow these trends. you know, what was successful for X could be successful for you. and I think that is the antithesis of what photography is about. It's an amazing platform because you can get a great amount of exposure. but it's not necessarily always productive. So I think it did help me early doors because there wasn't that kind of social pressure. I started off in quite a different world. I was more in the Nat Geo side of things. so much more editorial. so you did always have this sort of art editor sitting over you telling you, what they wanted. So there was quite a lot of, micromanaging, shall we say. so you weren't completely free. Whereas now, I think. So now focusing on the fine art side of things, I am completely in control of what I do. the risk is all on me. You know, I have to choose trips, that I think are going to work. I have to take images that I hope will sell, that kind of thing. So there's much less certainty in the business side of things. But it means that I am completely at, my own discretion as to what I want to shoot. And I think that's really important for me because, it gets me up every morning,

Raymond Hatfield:

you know,

Harry Skeggs:

I get up with excitement and that's great.

Raymond Hatfield:

we're going to explore this a little bit. what are you planning right now? What's going to be the next thing that you shoot?

Harry Skeggs:

Well, so this year is a bit of a funny one, because my wife is pregnant, and she is due in May. So I'm taking some time out, to both look after her and, and, um, the new arrival.

Raymond Hatfield:

How about the last one? And what's the last thing that

Harry Skeggs:

you I've been doing a lot more documentary work. so we did a big documentary out in, Antarctica and South Georgia, which was fantastic. and it was a difficult, difficult trip, which kind of all came good right at the end, which was amazing. but then my most recent trip was India, to Bandargarh for tigers. and that was, I don't know if you've been, I don't know if any of the audience have been and it's, it's stunning. It's really stunning. but it is a difficult shoot. It is, low density, tigers are elusive animals by nature. And you are stuck to the past because it's very, very jungly so we didn't get very lucky, unfortunately, and that's just the way it goes and I think, I think often that's quite good. I think it's a good reminder for people. I did a whole thing on Instagram about it, because there's such expectation of people like myself to, to go somewhere for two weeks and get an award winning image. And the reality is, that's not always going to happen. And I think that's good that it doesn't happen. because certainly when I was starting out, I found that I thought people like Steve McCurry would never take a bad photograph. You know, he's a great photographer. the reality is, Um, and I think that's all photographers, including Steve, including myself, including everyone. We take shockers from time to time.

Raymond Hatfield:

And everyone's

Harry Skeggs:

perfect. Thanks. Just 10 out of 10. We can swap. But it's good to know, you know, because I think you beat yourself up. And sometimes you miss an opportunity or something like that and that is human. I think that's okay. And it's good to know that professionals do that as well so yeah we just got one unlucky, and it happens. And it makes all those moments that do work out so much better.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, this is an investment not only in your time but of money as well to go to India to travel there to try to photograph a specific animal. like what do you do to increase your odds of capturing that animal? Because I'm assuming that like you just said, it's not, you don't just throw a dart at a map and see what happens. Like there's some planning involved. So what do you do to make sure that you're successful or that your chances of success are higher?

Harry Skeggs:

I think, I mean, this is what people often don't appreciate, is how much planning and research goes into these things. often in the galleries we get asked, well, if a painting takes a month to make, and why does a photograph take under a second to make, you know, why is that valuable? And there's so much that goes into it, and particularly planning and research. you know, I want to make sure that I am in the right place, the right time of year, the right guide. All of these things which factor in and there's such a such a sort of Venn diagram of what it is I'm looking for because you are looking for the time of year which has the right light, the time of year which also has good sightings, time of year where the background, the scenery is not looking dead and wilted, particularly because I'm a monochrome photographer, I don't like it when it's too yellow because that comes out very gray, all of these things play into where and when you might choose to go somewhere, But ultimately, this is wildlife. You know, and it's big, it's really important to me in my work that everything I show is completely wild and free. So, you know, we are talking animals and their natural habitat and natural behavior. and that means if you have something like an elusive cat, they might well just be elusive. Um, and it does happen. So, um, And I, in some ways, I make it harder for myself because, tiger's a great example, actually, where if you go on Tiger Safari, the reality is if you see a tiger, there are probably 30 jeeps all cramming and crashing into each other, making tons of noise, trying to get the sighting. And my first experience with that, I just said, no, not doing that. So, whenever there was a big obvious sighting, we went the other way. With the hope of just finding a tiger to ourselves, you know, which we did, we never got a clear, a clear sighting, unfortunately, but it meant that you didn't have this completely, artificial photograph of a startled tiger. And, and also just sort of ethically from a personal perspective. I don't want that photograph.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Harry Skeggs:

I don't want to photograph knowing that that was a startled animal. It's just not what my work stands for, really.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, not what my work stands for. We're going to get into that as well, but, uh, I want to keep on where we're at right here, which is, you know, as somebody who shot weddings for a number of years, I have a defined start and end date. Like I know what I'm going to capture because it all happens within a very defined amount of time. Your series, mist of time. I want to know, like, first of all, can you tell listeners about it? And then second. Did you start knowing what photos you were going to shoot and how you were going to shoot them, or was the timeline and subject matter a bit more organic?

Harry Skeggs:

One thing which is really important to me is that narrative has to predate image. I think often what happens, particularly in the fine art world, is people take a photograph and they superimpose some artificial narrative on it. And it always feels artificial, and I'm the other way around. really believe that you go out on a shoot with an objective. You have a narrative that you want to talk about long before. And we showed this in our documentary, you know, we went and spoke to WWF beforehand. So that I knew that I was going out with this, this concept of, of ghostly disappearing. And the reason that's important, I think for me is, is you're working in this manic chaotic world where things are just changing by the second. And you're looking for the single moment in time, you know, which tells your message. I think if you don't know what that message is, there's just too much going on. If you've got that narrative in your head already, you can really isolate the scenes that work to tell that, because it's very hard to predict quite what kind of metaphor, visual metaphor, you can use. So, um, you know, Antarctica is a good example where we wanted to talk about disappearing animals. And I had sort of, I did in my head how I might do that with double exposure, but then we, we landed on this beach, Jason Harbor in South Georgia, and it was just this thick fog, you know, you could hardly see your hand in front of your face, and just know, you know, this is the perfect visual metaphor to start talking about this, and we had, you know, luck was on our side, and I got down very low, reducing my silhouette, so that I became interesting and unthreatening to the penguins, and let them approach me, and they kind of separate a little bit. So there's a super inquisitive one who was very close, sort of stood in the middle and then just receding into the distance. So gradually getting more and more ghostly and disappearing into this gray mist. And it was just, just, you know, it was perfect night. It's rare this happens, but I was out there in the field and I was like, that was it. You know, that was the moment. But because I knew that's what I wanted to say, it really allowed me to kind of focus in on what I was trying to do photographically. So I think it's. Hey,

Raymond Hatfield:

Raymond here and we will get back to today's show in just a moment. But first, if you shoot in auto mode and you let your camera make the decisions for which settings to use, Well, then you will only ever take the same photo as everyone else who shoots in auto. That's like 99 percent of the world's population taking the same photo as you. Don't let that happen. Stand out! When you control your settings, you can create beautiful images. And to get you started, I invite you to download my free ebook, Perfect Camera Settings, over at Perfect Camera Settings. There, you will see real photos that I've taken in different situations and the settings that I use to capture those photos. I'm also going to teach you how to know which setting is the most important to pay attention to and when to change them. So, again, download your free copy over at PerfectCameraSettings. com. Alright, let's get back to today's interview. I hope everybody rewinds this part of the episode right there because as you said, I know, and I've been guilty of it myself to capture an image that I think, wow, this is good. And then, as you said, kind of supersede a, supersede, what was the word? I totally lost it.

Harry Skeggs:

Superimpose. Superimpose.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Maybe I need a little bit more green tea here. Superimpose the story behind it. Because, there's that phrase, hindsight is 20 20 and it always seems like it's easier to tell a story after the fact, but I like Your approach, if you know the story that you want to tell, that's only going to produce more powerful images. I think so.

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah, it narrows your focus. Yeah. I think it's really important.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you said there earlier, you know what you want your photos to stand for and what you don't want your photos to stand for. So, tell me what that is. What do you want your photos to stand for? What don't you want your photos to stand for?

Harry Skeggs:

Well, so. I was an animal lover long before photographer. and it was really important to me even before I was professional, and that my photos more for wildlife and of wildlife. You know, I think it's very easy to get into this place when you're just taking. You're going out to these wild places, seeing amazing things, taking images, and, you know, that's for you to sell and make financial gain, and that is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do, you know, I want my images to help on various levels, we, donate 10 percent of all, profits to, charity, we, For every FSC certified tree we use in the business, we, protect 100, 000 of primary rainforest trees. and, you know, I sit on the board of a charity, Generation Tusk, fantastic charity. so there's this sort of that side of it, the financial side of it. But also, I'm a strong believer that you don't, you can't ask people to conserve and protect animals that they don't emote for. we protect the things that we love. And I think stills photography has such a power in just showing people why these are so important. I'm such a believer that We are all animals. We're all in the animal kingdom. They are as important as we are, and we're very good at protecting our own. Biologically, you know, that is in our DNA, and that is, there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm a believer that because we have heightened intelligence, it is our, our role, really, and our, obligation to do more for animals, and I think that's achieved by teaching people how to care and love them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So then, When it comes time to choosing a story to tell, are you choosing stories based on what animals need the most help? Or can you kind of fill me in on that process?

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah, I mean, it varies from time to time. but there's always a sort of, changing spectrum of, what people are focusing on at the time. And I think often I kind of go to the other end of the scale. Cause you know, if you, if you think elephants and rhinos. Everybody knows they're being poached. Everybody knows that they're in decline. I don't know if my voice can add more, needs to add more to that. I'm interested in shining a spotlight on animals that, don't get that same sort of A list protection status. a great example is, is giraffe, who have been declining on a rapid state, scale. much quicker and more prevalently than, um, rhino and elephant. Um, but people don't know that necessarily. so, you know, no, I mean, 95 percent of populations, giraffe populations are declining. and You know, so one of my images, Limelight, which is, this photograph of a massive giraffe with a sort of godlike beam of light on it. That was very much, the goal, going out there to literally shine a spotlight on giraffe conservation. And we got this spotlight, and that just like, this is, could not be any more perfect. Yeah. so I think that's, that's the thing. It's People get spoon fed a lot of conservation stories, and I think it often it's sort of ad nauseam. It's too much. so I kind of like exploring animals that don't necessarily get the same level of help.

Raymond Hatfield:

I see. I see. I know there's a photography podcast, but can you tell me why is it that giraffe populations are dying off?

Harry Skeggs:

I mean, tons and tons of reasons, but, the sort of, the main ones are habitat encroachment. they're also hunted as bushmeat a lot. So, they're quite easy to catch, easy to shoot, um, easy to eat, so it's just unfortunately they are a by product almost of, of, human expansion. yeah, it's a real shame, um, and I think they're not protected in the same way. So, you know, whereas poaching, anti poaching units will be very on top of elephants and and, this kind of thing that. I don't have the same level of resource for giraffe,

Raymond Hatfield:

right? Right. Okay. So thank you for sharing that. Now you go out in the field, right? you capture that photo of the draft and you're like literally a spotlight on this draft. Wonderful photo. You know, that you got the shot, you know, that it's going to make an impact. What's the next step for you to be able to ensure that that photo is seen by the right people and can make the most amount of impact to, to ultimately get back and help the draft.

Harry Skeggs:

Well, I mean, I think, I think this is where social media is great. I think in days gone by, it would be very hard for photographers to get their message out. Whereas it's not too difficult to get your work seen by thousands and thousands of people. And you know, I'm not asking people to give money. I'm not asking people to buy stuff. I'm not asking to do any of that. I'm asking people to just sort of listen. and that's free. so I think social media can be very powerful like that. and then, you know, you just bolstered this into as many wealth as possible. So, you know, having it in the fine art world, showing this as, as an animal, which should be cared about on the same level as, as Picasso or whatever, is not only helpful, but also a great way of, of raising, charitable funds. so we donate prints. we actually had this, probably, probably my favorite story of, um, of all time actually is, um. We had during the pandemic, I had this message on Instagram and, he said he'd just been past the gallery and he'd seen this print, Limelight, in the window, and he texted it to his friend who was a, a doctor on earth, I think, and she'd just lost some family members, and was a huge giraffe lover and he said, said to her and said, what does this make you feel? And she said, this makes you feel hope. and he reached out to me and he said, look, we didn't have. Money at the moment, but she's gone through this terrible time And we would really love to to get it for her. How much would it be and We mean the gallery we donated it to them as a small small gesture to the NHS and the amazing work they did. and they, they sent us this really, really lovely video of them sort of surprising her with it. And it was just, it was amazing to see that your work can have that level of emotional impact on someone. She was just in full tears. and it was really touching. We invited her, Almost a year, two years later, we invited her down to the sort of VIP exhibition, night. So we got to meet her in person. It was just really touching to see that that can still happen. You know, this is not just a commodity. This has an emotional impact on people. and it reminds you why it is you do what you do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Wow. That is a powerful story. I've never had that happen to me. I can't imagine what that would be like. I'm sure you probably

Harry Skeggs:

have. You just probably don't know it, cause people see your stuff and they're at home going, wow, look at that. I'm sure they have, but.

Raymond Hatfield:

Huh? Maybe you wouldn't take the time. Yeah, right. don't have it. I guess the level of, involvement that you had, which is incredible. and I can only imagine just reinforces, that feeling that that you're making a change in this world. But I want to know, like you shared that photo on social media. Why do you think it was important It wasn't until she received that print that, like, more emotion came up, and it was just a more powerful response than just looking at it on a phone.

Harry Skeggs:

I think, you know, I'm a huge believer in print, the focus of all my work is print, and it's, it's scale, really, and you think about, you know, when you watch a movie on your TV, or you watch a movie in the cinema, you can't take your eyes off the cinema, because it's so immersive, whereas I'm, for one, extremely distractible, I'll be on my phone within a second at home. And print's the same thing, you know. Size shouldn't matter, but it does. Because you can't escape it, you are confronted by it. and I think that's just, it's a different feeling. and I think photography always looks better printed anyway, my personal belief. You know, it just, particularly in monochrome, it just resolves the detail so much better. And you can just, I think we're in a world where we are used to just flicking next, next, next on the screen. I don't think that's the same with prints and you linger on it. so I think it retains that kind of, that power for that reason.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. When it comes to, shooting in monochrome, tell me about that decision because that is, that's a big one. That's a decision that you have to make as a photographer. how did you come to that conclusion?

Harry Skeggs:

part of it is, is, You know, having studied fine art, it always just made me feel like, these historical testaments, which is what wildlife photography is becoming, right? as animals disappear more and more, a lot of these images are historical documents, which is kind of sad. but I'm a big believer that that color can kind of be a crutch. just relying on gold and our light to make it beautiful is not actually necessarily a good photograph. Whereas a good photograph, I think, should have some color. So I think it's a real, it's a true testament of photography. If your stuff works in monochrome, then it's, it's working well. I think it also has this kind of timeless quality to it. it feels like a document which just can last forever. And also on a commercial level, you don't get color clashes. so in terms of, you know, if someone's got an orange wall, You can still hang out monochrome. So lots of reasons, really.

Raymond Hatfield:

I had not thought of the commercial aspect of it. That makes sense. I want to ask you a question that you had mentioned earlier that, uh, you don't have many of your own prints around your house because just your own personal standards are very high. And you feel like, I know that I could have done this better. I know that I could have done that better. Can you talk to me about that? I'm just going to call it imposter syndrome when it comes to, turning those into prints that you intend to sell to people that feels like a bit of a clash there. How do you deal with that?

Harry Skeggs:

Well, I think, it's interesting. So, so I have two prints in my house, both of which were chosen by my wife, because, I couldn't really have any part of it one, one because she likes and it kind of fits the space and one because it was taken on a trip where we got engaged. So kind of more personal reasons, but, it's one of those things I think is quite prevalent in the art world. you know, the sort of perfectionism almost, I think it's helpful in its own place, because it makes you strive to get better and improve and always be going to the next level. I think as soon as you're happy with your work, you've peaked. And I believe there is no peak. in terms of sort of how do you sell that I mean, I think that's where, having people you trust and rely, as being objective. I think you, you know, as an artist, you can still get a frame of this is good and this is bad, but it can always be better. So I know when I take an image, you know, This is, you know, this is an eight. This is a nine. It's never a ten. Um, and then, you know, that's where it becomes very helpful with the galleries, discussing Well, you know, I think this might work and this might not work. and that's kind of helpful but I do believe that ultimately that decision should be yours. Because you know your voice and you know what you're trying to say. And I think it's okay that that evolves as well. I think this is the other thing is that, trying new stuff is fine and being different is fine. And, you know, I can definitely see in my own work that I'm going to new places, which I hadn't necessarily done before. And I think that's good.

Raymond Hatfield:

I agree with you a hundred percent. And I hope that people again, go back and there's going to be a lot that maybe I should just replay that over again. Every time you say something interesting, just play it twice. Um, because you're right. You know, I've talked to so many photographers who've said that there's no such thing as a perfect photo. And, the idea is that we should always be striving to get better, and better, but that doesn't mean that a photo is bad. It doesn't mean that inherently it's not, good or that it's not going to help people. it's just that having that knowledge of having been there, you always know, Oh, if I would've, you know, one step to the left, I could have just made it just a little bit better. So,

Harry Skeggs:

exactly. But the thing is to remind yourself that, that, if you're in that situation, again, Because you've made that mistake or not even a mistake, because you chose to do in that way, which you thought could have been better next time. Maybe you

Raymond Hatfield:

won't

Harry Skeggs:

and next time it'll be even better. so yeah, I think it's, it's making mistakes is the most important part of photography. And it's the real beauty of digital photography is make mistakes because if you're not making mistakes, you're not pushing yourself. make mistakes because you'll be amazed that when you try things that you weren't expecting. 9 times out of 10, that's the most interesting photograph you take that year.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm quiet because I'm writing that down because that is going to be my biggest takeaway of this episode. And once again, I hope people go back and listen to that. You are just full of these knowledge bombs right here. And I absolutely love it. This is wonderful. and I know that, listeners are thinking to themselves right now, like, wow, this is amazing. And I'm sure that for a few of them, it's clicking that they can actually use their camera, for good and help. You know, others in their communities. So whether it is to help animals or the environment or just their local community, what do you say to those people who just don't know where to start to take that first step to use their camera to, to help?

Harry Skeggs:

I think it kind of goes back to what I was saying before, you know, I think it's important that you're having fun with it and that your, your own voice comes out. and I think that's how you, begin to stand out in, on Instagram and platforms like that. And there's so many things that you can get involved in these days, which is fantastic. a good example is, the remembering wildlife books and also, prints for wildlife and that kind of thing, which take a lot of amateur photographers. and, you know, it just goes to show that there is this world where your photographs can be useful. I've got three or four of the remembering books behind me now, and they're filled with, with amateurs. But what I love about that is these days. There is no kind of bar in terms of photography. You don't need to own super expensive cameras to be a good photographer. So we can all be a good photographer. and on top of that, a lot of the things that you need to be a good photographer can happen to anyone, good lighting, good interactions, this kind of thing. So you can be fresh off the boat with a new camera on your first safari, and you can take an award winning photograph. That can happen. And that's pretty amazing. There's no other art like that, really. You can't just pick up a chisel for the first time and win some international award, but it can happen with photography and it's sort of, it's really nice to be in an art which is so, universal and encompassing like that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Harry, I don't know how to end it any better than that. That is, uh, I feel like if we keep going, we're, it's going to be the law of diminishing returns after that. That is, uh, we're at a peak right here. Harry, thank you so much for sharing everything that you have. No, it's a pleasure. again, I know that someone's listening right now and thinking this Harry guy, pretty good stuff. I'd love to see some more of his work. Uh, can you share with us where we can find you and, uh, follow you online?

Harry Skeggs:

Yeah, absolutely. My Instagram is just at Harry Skeggs, which is S K E G G S, and my website's www. SkeggsPhotography. com. we're going to be releasing a book soon, sort of going through the final rounds of publishing and that kind of stuff, but probably into early 24, but that'll be available in all sort of major bookstores.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love it. I do. I love chatting with people who are making a difference, people who are changing the world that they live in. Right. There's this, um, when my wife was in nursing school, she had to give a speech, when she had graduated and she used the line that I had never heard before, which was, be the change that you want to see in the world. And I remember hearing that thinking, Oh my God, that is so powerful. And, uh, We can all do that to a degree, right? We can all, we can be nicer to somebody. We can, show empathy to somebody. We can again, give a voice to a voiceless wildlife creature, and change the world, right? Bring awareness to these issues that are going on so that more people can know and more people can help out. So good. And as always, I have three takeaways from this episode that I want to share with you. The first one was to find yourself, right? If you limit your exposure to. Other, photographs or other photographers and, what they're trying to claim as what is right or what is wrong in an image. You're going to go in. blissfully unaware, like a child, just ready to just create for the sake of creating rather than being bogged down or, bored with all of the rules that you must follow and all this stuff. And that is how you're going to find yourself often when you're put into a box, it's hard to, create something unique because, well, you're in a box, but if you're given this infinite space, you have no idea what your boundaries are. You're going to create something new and something unique. Takeaway number two was to listen to yourself. We are all products of our history. So if you like something. You like it for a reason. Lean into it and don't fight it because it's not, I don't know, proven or popular. And last, my takeaway is make an impact. Again, this can be large scale, like trying to save the world's giraffes. Or something smaller, like donating a print of a giraffe to somebody who needs it. You can make an impact with your camera. If you have any questions about this episode or feedback on the show, feel free to reach out to me directly at beginner photography podcast. com. You can click the contact tab at the top. And while you are there, be sure to download my free picture, perfect camera settings, cheat sheet with camera settings for more than 10 popular types of photography filled with my personal and professional images and real life camera settings so that you know just where to get started. That is it for this week. Thank you again for tuning into this episode of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by cloud spot. Say it with me. It is the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. If you want to learn more about cloud spot and grab your free forever plan, head over to deliver photos. com. And remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. I promise. Talk to you soon.

Outro:

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