The Beginner Photography Podcast

Niching Down and Exceeding Expectations with Unforgettable Harry Potter Weddings with Gary Pope

• Raymond Hatfield

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#348 Gary Pope is a self-proclaimed Geeky Wedding Photographer. We discuss the importance of niching down when marketing yourself and why it’s important to find the right audience in order to better align with your goals. Gary shares his story of learning how to use his camera for YouTube videos and taking photos for a whole year before he realized he loved wedding photography.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Find your niche and stand out
  • Always keep learning
  • Pay attention to guests
  • Find a way to stand out
  • Be a friend with a camera
  • Serve clients with care
  • Be polarizing and unique
  • Be true to your niche
  • Passion draws people in
  • Be creative and realistic
  • Plan ahead for photos
  • Enjoy your niche passion
  • Know your worth

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Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Gary Pope:

The more weddings I did, I started realizing that the people I gravitate towards the most were those sort of geeky couples. there's a couple during their bridal portraits, they were playing a Jenga game and stuff. And that's like on the lighter geeky, aspects of things. But then like I had a other couple where they did like a renaissance fair themed wedding. And then I had another couple where their entire theme was like circus themed and stuff. And I started noticing over time that these are the sort of folks I gravitate towards the most. I enjoyed working with the most. It just was one of those things where I wanted to only serve them. And it worked in like a, this will make my day better when I'm working with them sort of factor. It also made it so that I stood out in some way, shape or form, because it's like when marketing yourself and everything, you got to find some way to stand out.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to episode 348 of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by CloudSpot, the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. I'm your host Raymond Hatfield. And today we are chatting with geeky wedding photographer, self proclaimed geeky wedding photographer, Gary Pope about the power of niching down and finding the right audience for you. Chatting with, self proclaimed geeks is something that I love to do. growing up, I was the kid who friends and family would, bring their computers to for help. I chose to go to a high school called technology high school. I was an active member of our network security club. Yeah, I was, I was that kid in high school, So I considered myself a geek. But, today when I met Gary, he takes it all to a whole new level of, geekiness, I guess. But, again, this isn't the beginner geek tography po Actually, geek tography is a really good name. And, Gary, if you're listening, feel free to take that, man. That is all yours. But Gary, like I said, self proclaimed geek, and he not only leans into his geekhood, but he sends out beacons of geekdom to attract fellow geeks who just so happen to be getting married. And he is able to deliver a more personalized experience perfectly tailored to them, giving them the wedding that they, envisioned for so long. So, this is a really great interview on how to niche down and the power of it and, why you shouldn't be afraid of alienating people and why you should lean into those things. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's podcast episode with Gary Pope. when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Gary Pope:

For me, it was really random. I was one of those folks that, didn't like almost kind of neglected it for a while because what happened with me was that I picked up a camera. to actually learn how to do YouTube. I became a board game YouTuber when I first got my camera. And one of the lessons I learned when I was picking up videography, actually, was always have your camera around and always take photos, because that's how you learn how to use your camera. So, over the course of literally having my camera around with me for an entire year, I'm not exaggerating that, for an entire year, I had my camera with me around my waist. At some point, there were folks, Almost sounds weird when I didn't have it. Um, I was just taking photos for an entire year and over that course that year, I didn't realize Oh, maybe I like actually taking photos more than editing videos and stuff. And then, it wasn't until a friend asked me to take photos of their wedding. That was when I realized like, Oh, I actually really enjoy also shooting weddings as well. thought I would hate it, but no, actually enjoyed it a lot.

Raymond Hatfield:

I hear that a lot from people. Yeah. It's a, it's one of those things that I think in the beginning, it seems like such high stakes that it's terrifying, that there's so many things going on, but I think what you could, once you get the hang of the flow and how just a wedding day works, it could be really enjoyable. I love that. So I want to clarify. So you, you were getting into videography. Why were you bringing the camera with you everywhere? Just to learn exposure? Is that it? Or how to use the camera?

Gary Pope:

It was pretty much just to learn how to use your camera. It was just pretty much getting used to, different settings, different, situations that you could possibly be in. Whether if you're outside taking photos of I have an older dog now and I was, he was my model when I first started out. so it was like taking photos of him and that those situations or outs out, with friends, hanging out at a bar or something like that, getting used to have to shooting in a low light situation. And having to deal with that is just pretty much just take a camera everywhere and learn how to do a shoot in all these different situations. Also, one thing that, the lessons they never really touched upon that I noticed personally, was that if you bring your camera with you everywhere, you actually get bored. Now, this sounds bad that you're getting bored doing an activity like that, but I mean, bored in a sense of that. You keep taking, like, if I take my dog on a walk every single day, I'm going to realize every single day I'm taking the same photos and they're going to be get boring taking those same photos every single day. So how am I going to switch that up with the taking photos of my dog every single day when I take him on a walk? Oh, well, I could change the focal length. Instead of shooting at him with a 50, maybe I go out and rent or I buy like a 135 or 200 and test that out and see how different that looks. Or maybe I actually get some flash gear and I actually Walk, while I'm walking, I place down the flash gear, take a couple photos of him real quick, and then I keep moving on, and I see how that works. It's one of those things where, over time, you get bored after certain things, so then you start being like, Okay, what else is there to learn? What else is there to do? Instead of just taking the same photos every single day. So, uh,

Raymond Hatfield:

so

Gary Pope:

that helped out a ton.

Raymond Hatfield:

Now that you've been doing this for a number of years, I'm just interested to know personally, do you still feel the same way about photography? Do you find that rather than trying to find something new to do, you just go deeper into that thing?

Gary Pope:

I'm always figuring out new things. for example, I did just take a course last year. it was a two man university ran by Erica and Lanny. the thing about them was that it was like taking a course helped me notice light in how your situation is differently. So. I'm learning things all the time, constantly. It's, it's like one year I'm learning like the first year I was learning like the basics, exposures, all that stuff. That second year is more about flash photography. Third year was just learning about like how, technically I've actually, actually been doing photography for about. Five, six years now, if I'm not mistaken, third year was like learning how to actually shoot in a wedding environment and get used to that hectic environment. That was like the couple of years doing that. grand at one of those years was during the pandemic. So it was like, wasn't much of that. And now it's getting to the point now where it's more, how do you. Take more artistic shoots and take advantage of the surroundings around you. there's a lot of situations where you're looking at the situation. There's not really an interesting photo there, but, one thing that they, heavily emphasize is that if there's not a interesting photo there, it's not that the situation's boring. It's that you're boring. So you need to figure that out. So you need to figure that out and look around and actually take advantage of what's around you. and embrace it essentially. And that helps a lot. So yeah, I'm still learning everyday about new things about photography. I, I'm actually not sure what else I want to learn to be honest. But um, It'll pop up organically I'm sure. Exactly, it'll pop up. I'll see something. And I'll be like, oh I want to learn that new trick or something like that. Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

I like that. If you can't, what was it? If you,

Gary Pope:

if

Raymond Hatfield:

you,

Gary Pope:

It's an old saying where it's like, whatever's happening. It's like, it's not that, the situation's boring. It's you're boring. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

And nobody wants to call themselves boring. nobody wants to acknowledge that. So nope. No one can definitely make you work harder. Yeah.

Gary Pope:

Yep. it's something I tell my kids all the time. Whenever they say, Hey, I'm bored. I'm like, Oh, it's. You got a VR at the house, you got switches at the house, you guys got your own PCs I built for you. you guys got phones you can record and make your own videos with and stuff like that. Opportunities. Yeah, it's like y'all are boring. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm gonna start telling my kids that they're boring too. I like that. Yeah, it's

Gary Pope:

you guys got a million more things than I had when I was a kid. Oh, no kidding.

Raymond Hatfield:

No kidding. Yeah. it's funny, cause my son the other day was just like, I'm bored. And I just looked at him. And I was like, I looked at my wife and I was like, do you remember being bored? do you remember? That was a time in our lives where we were like, we were bored at some point. And it's, I can't remember the last time I was bored. you know, so many things pop up, as an adult, but, yeah, it was such a, such a funny story. when you decided to bring your camera with you everywhere, there had to have been some sort of challenges that you faced, right? You're shooting in low light, you're shooting out, with your pup, on a walk or whatever it was. What were some of the more difficult situations that, that you had to shoot in?

Gary Pope:

it was actually probably people. People? Yeah. And it's not that I have weird interactions with folks or anything like that. but a common thing, it was very funny when I was first starting out, like month one of me taking out my camera, it's probably the same thing that everyone experiences month one is that you're taking bad pictures and, and, very, other very common things that when folks have really started out is that. you're almost just happy that you got the focus. You don't even care about, anything else that happened in the photo. You don't care about the facial expressions. you don't care about the lighting. You don't care about anything. It's just like, alright, nice. I got the focus. It was slightly whatever composition, but like, hey, I can actually see them and they're not a blurry mess. So that was happening for a while, but then, of course, because I was taking out my camera a lot, literally every single day when I was whenever I was doing things, this is when I was back when I was a bachelor, so I was like hanging out with friends a bunch and stuff like that. I lived with friends, other guys at the point, and we'd hang out with other folks all the time. it was one of those things where over the course of time, I would say about three to five months or so, then it got it went from People saying like, oh Gary, I hate that photo you posted of me. They're not malicious. They're not being mean or anything They just kind of make a poke of fun at me or whatever and then by the end of it by the end of like five Months, it was like, oh like Gary, are you bringing your camera out? Stuff like that cuz cuz they actually want the good photos and everything at that point cuz I'm improving so but yeah, the hardest thing was definitely people because I It's one thing to go and capture a landscape. The landscape can't have an awkward smile. and if you have a dog like mine that's incredibly photogenic, he's a golden lab. It's like he can't take a bad photo. that subject you can't take a bath with that. So like there's no problem with that But it's when it comes to people then it gets boils down to okay. I got the focus. I got the right exposure now is the actual face and the Face complexion and how they look and everything like that actually match and work and stuff like that and that was actually a ground base for kind of how I started to move forward with my business because it was like All right, cool if a heavy focus is on people are being awkward and they can't take photos well, stuff like that. How can I expand to that? And how can I actually improve myself so that I can easily take photos of people and they don't look awkward or feel awkward or anything like that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that was going to be my next question. If photographing people was so, difficult for you in the beginning, why did you decide to pursue wedding photography, which is 100 percent people? So I guess first you kind of shared how, somebody reached out and asked you to photograph their wedding. But how did you overcome. This, feeling of inadequacy when photographing people. what did you start to do to start taking better photos of people?

Gary Pope:

a couple things. One, going back to that original thing I did, I carried my Karen with me everywhere. I took photos every single day, and I got better at it every single day. it's like when someone's like, Hey, what should I do to lose weight? And someone's just very basically saying like the most generic thing, Alright, let's go to the gym every day. And you're like, All right. Well, what if I don't want to go to the gym? A lot of people are going to say they don't want to go to the gym every day. So very same concept. But, besides that, very, basic answer, one way that got over it, one reason why I actually thrived in it was because, I still am a people, people person at the end of the day, even though I'm an introvert, I'm a huge introvert. I'm incredibly shy in many situations, but at the same time, I am still very much a people person. It's actually goes back to my background. I used to do IT, and IT doesn't sound like the most social job on the planet. You're just staying in front of computers all day. But one thing that I thrived in the entire time I did IT, was that my managers always noticed that, Oh, okay, Gary's a very good people facing person. He can translate these uncomplicated problems into layman's terms. And make them feel at ease and then he could get it through. He also even troubleshoot himself. He knows how to do that stuff. So that was a constant thing that I was doing was that I was constantly people facing. if I was in a room with 10 other techs, most likely. And if there was like an executive with a big problem or something like that, I was typically the guy to go out there and help them out because they're like, Gary'll calm down. Gary'll explain everything, how it's going to work. So because of that background, that helped me a ton when it came to shooting people and shooting weddings and stuff. I don't really get stressed out and I don't really feel awkward in situations because my background is, is working with people when they're pissed. So it's like, it's a total flip where it's like, Oh, I'm working with people. And it's like the happiest day of their life. So it's like, Oh, this is easy, man. I don't got to joke around with this dude and make him not feel pissed off that he hasn't had access to his computer for about a week. Now I can actually talk to people about having a good time and stuff like that. Oh, this is easy. This is nothing. So, it's a little bit of my background, but it's also, a lot of practice going into it and also when it boils down to a lot of things that made it me able to shoot people better was understanding. I guess you could say hints of actions that they do. For example, it's not like I'm spying and I'm listening hard courts, what people are saying and stuff, but it's one of those things that if you people watch quite a bit, you start to notice little details and things you might notice where, if you're walking, let's say hypothetically at a wedding, right. And you see a group of people. And you notice every two minutes, that group of people start laughing. And you notice that the guy who, the person who's not laughing is usually the person who's telling a joke in a typical situation. And you realize, okay, that's the funny guy. And then you realize, okay, wherever that funny guy is, I'm going to try to keep an eye on him because he's going to get people around him laughing. So then you can capture laughing photos around that. Usually, obviously people look good when they're laughing in most situations. So it's one of those things where it's like, People watching helps a ton with that and just keeping, being observant of how people are interacting and acting throughout an entire wedding day helps with capturing those folks where it's not going, you're not going to always be capturing awkward looking faces and stuff. So that's what helped me a ton.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, that's, that's good. That was always one of my hardest things. do at weddings is to, because I don't know, maybe it's just internally, but it's like, I feel an obligation to the bride and groom, like pretty much just to follow them around all day. So looking and paying attention to a lot of the guests was not something that, I would do often, but I would find that when I would, or especially doing like the reception where you're just kind of photographing everybody. I would get some of the best photos because, it's other people and you can, you can start to find those patterns. So I liked that a lot. So when did you decide you know what? Weddings are the thing for me and I'm going to pursue this full time and leave it.

Gary Pope:

it was a slow progression. I would say slow compared to a lot of folks, but, it was like, it was a slow process because When I was doing it, I was actually making good money doing it. and on top of that, I could work from home and on top of it, I was also typically in higher up positions. So to be really honest, I wasn't doing a ton of work throughout the day, like a normal day of work for me. Like I'd get paid for an eight hour shift. I probably only did like four to five hours worth of work during the entire day. But, the thing that made me want to do, I, uh, switch over to photography was a couple of reasons. One, I enjoyed photography to a degree where I was like, I can see myself doing this. Now it wasn't like I was. I guess you could say madly, madly, madly in love in photography. The thing actually attracts me most of photography is actually working with people. It sounds weird enough. a lot of folks are focusing on like the camera gear, what lens they have, what flashes they have. all those other sort of things with the composition and the presets. I don't know what was all that stuff. I don't care about that stuff. Nowhere near as much. I can't tell you the last time I watched a video looking to buy some camera gear, something like that. Once I was pretty squared away. for me it's all about working with folk, with people and everything. So that was one of the things that drew me towards wedding photography mostly was because, alright, I'm gonna be working with a lot of people. That's kind of my forte. to be brutally honest. If let's say, hypothetically, let's put it myself in a bubble. If I could just shoot whatever kind of photography I wanted to shoot and I didn't have to worry about editing or anything along those lines. So everything was kind of even if it came to editing everything. Cause that's the one thing that sucks about weddings is that you got to sit there and edit like a thousand photos or whatever and go through a ton. So we, we, we all not going to deny that. That's a thing that sucks. It's only a few people actually enjoy. So, But in this situation, it's like, if everything's even, I still would rather do weddings because you get to interact with a bunch of people, you get to have a ton of fun with folks, it's, people out partying, essentially. There's cake every

Raymond Hatfield:

day. Yeah, right? It's cake,

Gary Pope:

right? Oh my god, the amount of The thing I love most about weddings is when they do their wedding gifts or like shots or something like that. I freaking love it. Anyways, but that's kind of what got me into weddings mostly was because of working with people in general. And, that aspect of it was what drew me to it towards it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So today though. if I go on your website, it is not just, light and airy, beautiful, in a field. Did I call my photos beautiful? It's not, it's not like if I go to your website, it doesn't look like you just pulled all your photos off of Pinterest, because you have found yourself quite a niche in Harry Potter style weddings. Is that right?

Gary Pope:

yeah, it's a little bit more pulled back as geeky weddings, but I do do a lot of Harry Potter weddings. It's no joke. Every year is probably about five. At least. Okay. Harry Potter weddings. We're

Raymond Hatfield:

talking about this because this to me is something that is really interesting. not only because, I think that there's this idea from new photographers and tell me if you felt the same way, but if you niche down too much, you're going to alienate too many people. So like, where did this idea come from and how did you get over that, that fear?

Gary Pope:

So the idea originally came from that actual first couple. Actually, the first couple that hired me, because that first couple was a, couple that used to play board games with all the time. And, I'll be honest, they didn't have the most crazy extravagant wedding or anything like that, but I loved working with them. It was really fun work with them, hanging out with them and everything like that. I played board games with them all the time. I enjoyed their company. And I realized that afterwards, That, that's why I love that's it is my people. and on top of that, the more weddings I did, I started realizing that the people I gravitate towards the most were those sort of geeky couples. there's a couple of albums, super still cool to this day. Um, during their, bridal portraits, they were doing, they were playing a Jenga game and stuff. then I had like another couple, and that's like on the lighter geeky, aspects of things. But then I had a, other couple where they did like a renaissance fair themed wedding. And then I had another couple where they, their entire theme was like circus themed and stuff. And I started noticing over time that, these are the sort of folks I gravitate towards the most. I enjoyed working with the most. And it just was one of those things where I wanted to only serve them. And works in many factors. It worked in like a, this will make my day better when I'm working with them sort of factor. Two, it also made it so that I stood out in some way, shape or form, because it's like when marketing yourself and everything, you gotta find some way to stand out. And I felt like I had to do something to make myself stand out because. I'm someone who doesn't like doing the same thing over and over and over again, and then complaining about it and realizing like, Oh, well, other people need to appreciate my work instead of like me doing something to make people appreciate my work. So, know it's very quickly after a year. just being quote unquote, a generic photographer. I was like, Hey, I got, I got to figure out a niche and niche down. And that's why I went with geeks. It's because the funny thing is I, that wasn't even my first choice. I was a back and forth between a couple of different other options. it was geeky weddings. I even thought about going straight down to Harry Potter weddings, like you mentioned, just in just being exclusively almost Harry Potter weddings, because there were just that many coming in. and then the third one was, actually interracial marriages because by pure coincidence. Like I would say half of my first bunch of weddings were all interracial marriages and eyebrows. It's oh, I love working with these folks It's also super cool that I can freaking go to a wedding and everyone's doing soca dancing and then like also they're doing it to Bollywood It's like and then on top of that then the foods bomb too because it's like I was I did a wedding four months ago where it was like, it was pizza and, Indian food. And I was like, perfect. It was perfect. It was a perfect day. Things like that. But like, I realized over time that, I gravitated more towards the geeky aspect of things, because I could talk about that more and I enjoyed it more. And not that I couldn't talk about interracial marriages, but it was like, I guess the best is that there's not a ton of conversation, conversational pieces after. You know how to capture both, skin tones and stuff. So that's why I like geeks.

Raymond Hatfield:

So so interesting, because. Okay, you said that you were getting a lot of inquiries for specifically Harry Potter weddings for a while. I look at your website, there's a lot of Harry Potter themed, copy and images on your website. And I want to know, let's take one of these Harry Potter weddings for an example here. how do you try to incorporate Harry Potter into your photography? Because in my head, I'm thinking it's just Harry Potter themed decorations, but is it more to it than that?

Gary Pope:

So here's the funny thing about it, and this is very weird. This is very weird. I'm gonna love this. This is very weird to say to other photographers. It doesn't matter by your photos, your photos don't matter at all. what matters is, is how you can actually serve and help out and connect with these other couples. It has nothing to do with your photos. like for example, I was talking with a couple the other day, and they were trying to figure out, There was like, okay, Gary, we want to do the, unbreakable vow during our, ceremony thing. So instead of like a first kiss, they do the unbreakable vow, which is from, the Harry Potter, which is what, Black. And, I forget the other girl did, to say, Hey, I'm going to protect, I forget. I'm forgetting details. Just how big of a Harry Potter, all these little details. But at the moment when that, that client was asking me this question on the phone, they were just like, Oh, we also want like the, we want to get a photo with that Trent, like that, uh, them, that line from the book in it and on the spot, I was like, Oh yeah, that's like chapter five in the order of the Phoenix, whatever. And it was like, Oh wow. You know that? And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's no problem. It's like, it's things like that, that got me these weddings because it's like, As, Grin, I'm not showing a great example here, having a brain fire on these names and stuff like that, it's very basic things, but in the moment when I'm talking to these folks, I know these things off the top of my head, and these are the ways that you can serve them without just talking about just photos, it's also just these are their hobbies and their interests, they want to talk to these things with other folks, when, It's like when you're geeking out of something that you really love. if you just got a new video game and you want to talk to someone else who also beat the game, and you're like, oh, I love how this happened in this one part of the video game, and, oh, did you see the alternate ending? People want to do that with their hobbies. So when I'm talking to people about their Harry Potter hobbies and everything, They're talking to me being like, Oh, Gary, what's your patronus? what house are you? And it's, you could have fun conversations like that. And that's 90 percent of what people are looking for when it comes to, picking their photographer for these certain niches of certain, for these certain things, it's less about the photos. The last 10 percent is, Oh, can you capture these particular photos in these particular instances? But no joke, you'd be surprised at how many people hire me. And they say, Hey, we're having a Harry Potter wedding. And then no joke. They're like, they are. You can't see it on my website, for podcast listeners, but on my website, there's like a, photo with bride with a bride. And she has like Patronus shooting out of a wand and stuff like that. a lot of folks say, Hey, I want that kind of photo during my wedding. I want Patronus photo during my wedding. It comes to their wedding day. I'm like, hey, you want to do that Patronus photo? I'm like, nah, I'm good. You'd be surprised at how many people do that. I'm not even joking. It's probably 75 percent of the couples I work with. They literally, they love that photo and they say, oh, they want that photo. Comes to their wedding day, don't want it. So you, it's one of those things where that's why, I say constantly, photos don't matter as much as you think. It's all about the service, all about how to communicate with them, and just being a friend with a camera as opposed to just a, a dude sitting in the back with a 135 lens and not interacting with anyone.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, Raymond here, and we will get back to today's show in just a moment. You know, when I was asked, to photograph a family for the first time. The idea of doing what I love and getting paid for it was absolutely, it was incredible. I, however, could not use the same word to describe the actual session. The family looked so awkward, like they had never even met before the shoot. After I delivered the photos, they said that they had wished that I had just given them a bit more direction because they were nervous. Suddenly a light bulb went off. Unless your last name is Kardashian, who is naturally comfortable. Comfortable in front of a camera As a photographer, posing is more than just, put your arm here, push out your hip. It's getting your clients to feel comfortable and feeling confident in front of your lens. Now, after 10 years of photographing people, I wanna give you my free guide to posing over@photoposingguide.com. It is filled with more than 80 images of real poses that I've used with my couples that you can use for inspiration. So grab your copy over at photoposingguide. com. And now let's get back to today's interview. Right? Right. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. I've said that on the podcast many times that, if you want to get into business, photography is not a product. It's 100 percent of service. And I think you just, you attested to that right there and I'm trying to think in my head. It's so like. So then why continue marketing yourself, in these ways, if people aren't even going to really take you up on, on what it is that you do right on, like on this shot on these on the style of photos. Does that make sense?

Gary Pope:

Yeah, it's because, it's just an angle. It's just one of those things where it's just like, it's a part of your product. It's a part of your service. it's just that you don't want to lead too much with it because if you lead too much with that, then, you turn from the category of I'm delivering photos and this is what I am and stuff like that. Instead of you'd rather be working with me. It's, it's way easier to replace the photos than to replace the person taking the photos. And that sounds really weird, but, but it's actually very important to couples. It's way more important to couples than you think. it's like, imagine, your car breaks down and you bring your car to five different mechanics and out of all those five different mechanics, four of them say to do the same exact thing. They're all just like, Hey, here's the price. Here's how you fix the thing. This is the thing that broke. Here's how much it costs. Let X, Y, Z. Let me know how much it's going to cost if you want to do it or not. and then there's going to be that one person who's just like, Hey, by the way, I noticed that your car is messed up. It's broken. I patched together. I'm only going to charge you 30 bucks for that patch as a heads up. Let your car is going to break again in a month, but like you at least have that month, leeway time. it's still going to cost the same amount as much as anyone, everyone else is suggesting it is going to cost to fix this thing, but at least you're good on that. Oh, and by the way, while I had your car up, I noticed five other problems. You're not going to have to worry about them for another six months, but they're going to probably cost you around like two grand or whatever. And then you give them the keys, send them off on their way. Who do you think they're going to go back to? Kind of all five of those guys, they're going to go back to the person who was being more of a person to them, as opposed to the people that were just saying, Hey, here's my prices. Here's the service I do. Give me your money. So, you'd be surprised that when you have to, people have to step back from photography and look at how they look at their lives as well and how they interact with everyone's services, businesses, and everything, and realize that. Oh. I'm treating everyone like the way that I hate being treated when I go out to businesses and do services and stuff. think about it from a more human aspect is why I usually always suggest.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That's, totally true. I'm thinking of my wife's car is actually in the shop right now as we speak. And, that exact. We took it to a shop specifically, pretty much because they were exactly like that last thing, example that you had gave where essentially they, gave some recommendations on future things that could go wrong based on, what, what the issue is right now. And it feels, Hey, these people are really knowledgeable and they're really trying to help us out. And that's why we chose to do work with them. So if that's the case, are you doing anything, I don't want to say specifically Harry Potter related, but like, are you doing anything, before they contact you, like, are you writing blog posts on, how to have a geeky wedding, or, are you doing anything like that where it's like a, way for them to find you, and for you to provide help before they contact you?

Gary Pope:

Oh, yeah, a ton. actually going into what you said a moment ago. Yeah, I do like have blogs on my site. I have several massive blogs in certain situations. I actually need to cut them down and make them smaller. Like, I have like a Harry Potter specific one where it's all about, literally everything you could possibly find about your, to figure out for your Harry Potter wedding. so just like, Let's say if you want to get actually literally married near or at Hogwarts, there's directions on how to do that. Um, there's directions, uh, no joke. Here's a story. And this is actually where it gets down to you serving your clients and stuff like that. I had a, one of my couples, they were having a full blown out Harry Potter wedding, literally. They did like everything. They didn't even tell the guests where the wedding was going to be at. Instead they say, hey, go to this train station. We're going to ride the train into the wedding reception. so they literally did everything Harry Potter for their wedding. at one point the bride was like, hey, Gary, I want to surprise my husband, at the wedding with something Harry Potter related. She was like, Hey, but I looked through the guide, that you have on your site and I saw that, that I could do owls, maybe do you know anyone that can do owls, like nearby here? I didn't know a company specifically, but like we started digging, looking around, stuff like that, and she ended up finding a place with her mom. She was like, Oh my God, found a spot. And now she has owls at her wedding and she surprised her husband. You notice how none of that had to do with photography? Yeah. And I was just with writing a guide and that helped your ideal sort of clients and figuring out, oh, what can they do for their wedding and stuff like that. and now when it comes to actually people finding me and stuff like that. It's having that guide up. so when people are searching up Harry Potter related things, it pops up and stuff. also in groups, I'm very, very active in Facebook groups. I'm extremely active when it comes to a whole bunch of different things. I answer a whole bunch of range of questions ranging from, just venue searches in general, to playing various different things for your wedding. if there's any ever geeky related questions, I'm always down to answer questions on that. and then what tends to happen is, is that because I am sending a beacon with my website being like, I'm for geeky folks. Come to me. If you're a geeky person, whenever I'm helping out people, I'm assisting people and stuff like that. They happen to check me out. And then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, wait, dude, this is geeky, dude. I'm a geeky person. Let me reach out to them and see if they if they're open to shoot my wedding and stuff. so it's just one of those things where. If it's, I guess, I guess the best way to put it is that if you give off those vibes, you receive those vibes. So, it's just naturally going to happen even in, as long as you're doing it, do Dylan. It's of getting your name out there. like I was saying, I was messaging a lot of Facebook groups. Answering questions and stuff like that. As a heads up, I'm not really self promoting myself as much as you think I am. I'm not saying like, I'm not going to all these posts and saying like, check me out, check out my wedding photography company or whatever I'm not doing. Now I'm just literally answering questions. And, and I'm just mentioning I'm a photographer half the time. I don't even post a link to myself. So they got literally kick, click on my profile and find me. but yeah, helping out folks. helps out a ton having the resources there, helps out a lot. It's like, if your ideal client are folks that, they're riding on yachts all the time and that's all they do, you could literally like write a guide being like, Oh, how to get perfect photos on your yacht or something like that. And people look at that and it'll be super helpful for them or like, even more specific where it's just like, Hey, we're like, best 10 places in my state to. park your dock at four, uh, It's nice scenic afternoon. I don't know.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Gary Pope:

I'm not a yacht person. I don't own a yacht.

Raymond Hatfield:

Clearly. I can tell. I can tell, Gabe.

Gary Pope:

But, what's it called? these are things you want to write for your folks so that they can, find and attract and also, know that you're the person for them too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, so, you said earlier before we started recording, that you've had a busy few weeks going to bridal shows as well. I've been to a few bridal shows, and one thing I know is that you have to have something to stand out amongst the, however many other, photographers there could be there. So, if your focus is, quote unquote geeky couples, right? What are you doing to draw them in? What are you showing? what's there at your booth? What

Gary Pope:

so besides have my trademark photos and like albums and the generic things that everyone has at their booth.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm sorry. I'm trademark trademark photos is in like,

Gary Pope:

Oh, sorry. Sorry. I have my Harry Potter photo with the Patronus shots and stuff like that. classify that as my trademark quote unquote trademark photo where it's like, it's a photo that most folks recognize me from if they've seen my business or anything like that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. And they're going to see that photo and immediately know what it is that you do. Okay.

Gary Pope:

Yeah, but no, but that the thing is, is that besides that, that's like, that's one aspect of it. The other aspect, the main thing I get to draw that draws crowd to my booth is that no joke. And I can't even take the credit for this. This is actually my assistant's idea. Is that we, uh, wear Harry Potter robes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Really?

Gary Pope:

Yep. People mistaking us for Justice of the Peace. All the time. But, no joke is one of those things where it works so well that I am not even joking in future shows. it was the easiest one to accomplish quickly and first because It's just easy to grab a bunch of robes. You could get like a massive ones and they could be oversized and whoever wears them. It's totally fine in the future. No joke. I am like literally looking into like Jedi outfits. So I can do Star Wars stuff and then like do like Trekkie outfits. We're all wearing like the Trek jumpsuits and everything like look like that's literally my future plans of doing that because that's an immediate thing. They literally see you guys from a distance and they're like, Yeah. Are they what I think they are right now? And it's, and that's the thing is that you want to be that polarizing for folks where you're literally perfect for someone. If someone sees you and they're like, that dude is wearing a Harry Potter robe. I am pretty confident about it. I want to check out that booth and see whatever it is. Don't even know it's photography. Just want to see what it is. and then you take it from there. It's one of those things where it's like you want to be very eye catching and that's how you stand out easily. and then the rest of the work is just being a people person. actually having good photos. So it's like, but that's in my opinion, that's the easy part, is that, because that's the thing that like you, you could just do that during the work and stuff. But um, Wow.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. So, see. I may love Star Wars, but maybe I don't love Harry Potter. what I'm trying to get at here is like, is that, ever like a worry for you? that you're turning off enough people to where, you're not gonna be fully booked?

Gary Pope:

No, because, here's the thing. Even though I'm wearing Harry Potter stuff, I show Harry Potter photos. One of the things I stress is that when I first am talking to people is that I'm a, I say literally first thing I say, well, besides saying, Hey, do you need a wedding photographer? Like when's your date? Blah, blah. I say, Hey, we're geeky wedding photographers. I don't say we're Harry Potter waiting for photographers. I say we're geeky photographers. And the other thing is that when it's, that's very important about this is that some people may pick a niche just because, and they're not actually well versed in that niche. And that's when you're going to fail, to be really honest. Because when I say You mean photographers,

Raymond Hatfield:

not couples, photographers.

Gary Pope:

Photographers, yes. let's say hypothetically you say, let's go back to that example you said a second ago. You're a yacht photographer. You specialize in shooting on yachts. You wear an astronaut. But you don't even know what a Yeah. Yeah. But you don't even know what like A doc is like, you don't even know like the basic things people going to talk to you and be like, Oh, all right, whatever. This guy's like weird or whatever. But when I say I'm a geeky photographer, I fully embellished that I was talking to a bride the other day and she was just like, Oh, what kind of geeky stuff are you into? And I was just like, I'm literally like, everything. And she's like, Oh, like what's specific? I was like, I don't know, just to go over recent things I've done. I spent all night watching cyberpunk on Netflix. She's like, Oh, you watch anime too? I'm like, yeah, I've been watching cyberpunk recently. Watched, uh, Neofish Mob Psycho to 100, the second season. And, I saw also Neofish finish, Attack on Titan season four. She's like, Oh, like you actually watch anime, watch anime? I'm like, yeah, yeah. Like I dabble in it. I watch like a series, like two or three series a year or something like that. She's Oh, okay, cool. And then we started talking about that for a while. Initially she was thinking I'm just a Harry Potter dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was saying I'm a geeky dude in general. So that's why you need to, be Be in it. Yeah, be in it. Because if someone's gonna talk about me with anything geeky, I gotta know my geeky stuff. Yeah. So, uh, and it's not just, me studying it. it's my life. The second we get off this call, I'm gonna freaking play team, team fight tactics and gamers know what that is. So it's like, but, um But things like that. that's how I get past that they're coming here for Harry Potter. They're actually Star Wars fans. Like, no, I actually do Star Wars as well. I'm cool with Star Wars, too. So that's why, that works. But let's say hypothetically, there's a person who's not geeky in the slightest bit. Not at all. how do I approach them? Two things. Two things. One, I was about to flip you off, but one,

Raymond Hatfield:

one way. I don't appreciate that Gary. I've been nothing but cordial to you.

Gary Pope:

One thing is, is that, you don't apply to them at all. And that's totally fine. You have to be, you have to be totally fine that you're going to be an absolute no for a lot of people. You gotta be a thousand percent fine with that. The best part about all of this though is that you are the perfect person for a lot of folks, which is even better than being okay for everybody. I would absolutely despise it. It's like the best way I describe it is that it's like, imagine, you're going out and you're going to hang out. You're not going to bring any friends. And your goal is that you have to talk to a hundred people.

Raymond Hatfield:

Jeez.

Gary Pope:

The first place you're gonna go to is a big random fair. Let's just say it's like a town fair or something like that. And you gotta go to that town fair and talk to a hundred people at that town fair. There's nothing in common with any of these people except they live in that same town or whatever it may be. and you gotta strike up a conversation with a hundred people there. That's gonna suck, isn't it? Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

a lot of conversations about the weather.

Gary Pope:

Yeah, it's just, yeah, exactly. You're probably barely gonna get into any meaningful conversations easily. Now, similar situation, you gotta talk to a hundred people, but you gotta go to a Marvel convention. This is a convention all about people that watch the Marvel movies, and they absolutely love them. It's gonna be a million times easier talking to those folks because you actually have a common interest. You could go there and be like, Hey, what's your favorite Marvel movie? They'll be like, Oh, mine is guardians galaxy. Oh, I love that scene in which Groot did said Groot things. And it's like all this other stuff. And you guys go to those conversations. And then the best part about that is, and this is a lot of thing that a lot of folks miss out on it is that you talk to that first person, maybe. They weren't vibing with you that much. Maybe you missed a joke or something. Maybe you set a reference that they didn't get. Well, guess what? You got to talk to 99 other folks that are going to be similar down that vein of things. You talk to the next person. Instead of talking about that group scene, you're like, Oh, I loved when Star Lord did that thing and they go back. Oh, yeah, Star Lord's my favorite person. Like, oh wait Okay, this person likes Star Lord. Maybe more people like Star Lord than Groot It's like may bring up Star Lord more than Groot. So over time you're refining what you're talking about You're finding your talking points and everything and this applies to just like running a business and everything It's like you're just getting better at talking to the same people over and over and over again And you're getting your stories better. You're getting your delivery better And all that stuff Way better than being at that fair with a hundred people that are random. And you're just trying to have a basic conversation with anyone there. And you can't even get past that point because everyone's just so different. That's why, um, better to niche down. But anyways, like I said before, gotta be fine with not talking to anyone, that you're not being a good fit, fit for them. Second thing is, is that, even though you may not be a good fit for them, what still happens is, is that. And this is a very common thing, but people are actually very excited and very drawn to passions. like my wife, she has no interest in board games at all. But she noticed that I have a passion for board games and because of that, she actually plays some board games. same thing with a lot of my friends in my group, my group, my group of friends is that none of them play board games on their own, but because I had so much passion over the years and board games, they've actually given some board games to try and now they actually own some board games in their own place. People are drawn to passion, passionate people about things. If I had a friend that was really interested in woodworking, I would be slowly picking up woodworking because I'd be over his house having a beer hanging out and he'd be doing some woodwork in the back. I'd help him out. And over the course of being friends with him for a decade, I'll probably pick up some woodworking stuff slowly myself. So people are drawn to that. So if someone doesn't even have an interest in Harry Potter geeks, nothing, they'll just be like, Oh, this dude seems like interested in things. Like that seems pretty cool. And then that's where you try to sell them on just your personality itself. And that's when it's, not all about the geeky stuff and all that stuff. It's just like, no, do I like you? So that's a, that's a one aspect that, folks need to understand and realize that. You're not pushing people away as much as you think you are.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. There's that quote. If you want to be interesting, you have to be interested. And it seems very similar here where it's like, if you're interested in something, people will find that interesting, and want to start that conversation. I like that a lot. but getting back to maybe the photography aspect of it. Let's say, you have a couple, they are into geeky things. you've had some conversations before. you still want to make sure that they get all of their needs filled at their wedding as far as, you know, what it is that you do as a photographer. So, are you having conversations with them before their wedding about certain types of photos that they want or anything like that?

Gary Pope:

yes, to some degree, pretty much one of the ways I talk to them specifically about their situation is that, at least in my particular situation is that, my couples are introverts. They don't have a huge social battery. and you'd be surprised at how many are just getting photos, just because their parents want photos. Right. but then it's kind of funny because it's like, then they're paying a good amount of money for a photographer that's specific for them, which then it works out because. Then I could talk to them and they don't have to worry about the photos as much. But when it comes to all that photo stuff is that, I am walking them through things. I am talking to them through things, but a lot of things that in which I work for them is because of my approach so instead of like doing a whole bunch of typical prompts and Poses like put your hand here put your waist there and stuff I'm doing like games and acting prompts and improv So I walk them through that I explain that to them so they can understand oh, okay this is how the process is going to be when working with gary so that It'll be more fun instead of like doing typical things. And that's pretty much how I walk them through that. So they don't have to be too worried about their photos. They can understand okay, so I see a lot of his past clients. They all have great photos and everything. And he did all of this through games and stuff. So that's really good to, I walk into the situation, but I do also always explain to these folks is that I can't be all fun and games the entire time because at some point we do have to get the boring photos done. I do have to tell you to stand there and look at the camera at some point and smile because your grandparents are going to want that photo. but for the most part.

Raymond Hatfield:

And immediately people are like, okay, let's get this over with. And

Gary Pope:

exactly. And it's one of those things that's so common nowadays that most folks are totally fine with that. And they totally get it. Actually, the funny thing is I only had one couple slightly object to it. And I was just like, I was so, I was cool with them to the point where I could talk trash to them. But that's just like, I was like, just stand there. Just like, just give me like the two seconds when I take these stupid photos. I know they're stupid. I agree with you. I hate these photos too, but we got to do them real quick. As a heads up folks, I joke around my couples all the time. I'm a very sarcastic person. it even goes as far as, there was a wedding last year where a father came with me at the end of the wedding. He was just like, Hey, Gary, I knew he was going to do a great job. The second you told my son in law to shut the hell up. So I joke around folks a lot during weddings. So don't take this as me being a jerk. This is me joking around folks. But anyways,

Raymond Hatfield:

that's hilarious. That is so funny. Oh man. Yeah. Sometimes you got to take control. I mean, like I get it. like you said, I had a couple, a number of years ago where the bride said It was her in laws who were going to be paying. So it was his parents who were going to be paying for the wedding. And, oh no, no, I'm sorry. it was the exact opposite. The in laws were used to paying for other stuff anyway, but they were paying, the couple were paying for their whole wedding. and she said that she was doing that just specifically so she could tell me Don't take any photos of my father-in-Law And I was like, really? Are you sure? Wow. Really . Yeah. And I was like, okay, if you say so, and sure enough, you know, like I, I tried, I did sneak in a couple just in case there was any, issues, but I didn't deliver those. And, she never said, yeah, I, I

Gary Pope:

would've done the same. I would've kept them in a folder just being like.

Raymond Hatfield:

Just in case. Yeah, just yeah, exactly. But yeah, I mean, I totally get it. You know, when it comes to, photos, you got to figure out what it is that a couple wants. And if they don't want something, don't do it. But, let's say a couple comes to you. And, I full disclosure, I have not seen any Harry Potter movies or read any books. So I'm not in the world. But let's say I do know that there's that broomstick game where they fly around, right?

Gary Pope:

Yeah, Quidditch. Quidditch.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So let's say that a couple comes to you and they say, we want a photo of us playing Quidditch. Obviously there's no flying brooms, right? So that is going to require some additional, Photoshop work and whatnot. What do you do in that situation? Do you say, yeah, absolutely. Or, Hmm, I don't know about Photoshop stuff.

Gary Pope:

So this is actually something I talk with literally every single one of my couples. a process of when they're, I'm onboarding them kind of, even before they give me any money or anything. I showed them a bunch of photos and that showing them a bunch of photos is specifically to say are they for me or not? Are they going to be, if they can actually enjoy my photos or not, they can see photos on my website, but that doesn't fully portray everything that they could possibly get beginning during their wedding. So I showed them a bunch of photos and then I show them a Patronus photo. Like one of the. One Patronus photos and the reason why I show them that is I don't show them that photo to say like I'm going to make A Patronus for you the reason why I show that photo in particular is that when I shot this that my first Patronus photo that's like my quote unquote, trademark photo, whatever that's on my site and stuff. That photo, I didn't know how to do it when I took that photo. they literally walked up to me and they were just like, Hey, Gary, I want to do a Patronus shot. Like, can you figure out how to do that? I'm like, I've never done that before. Whatever. We'll figure it out. Stay in there. And I'll figure out how to do it in Photoshop and afterwards. so, when I work with other couples, I told them ahead of time, when I showed them that phone, I say, like, I told him that same story. I say, I didn't know how to do it. I went on my computer and I figured it out for 8 hours and here's what I have. I explain that story because it then portrays There's a lot of things I don't know how to do and I'm figuring it out as we go along. If there's anything you guys would like to brainstorm and figure out, then hey, you're more than welcome to ask me, and we can figure that out. to be very blunt and upfront with, uh, folks, I am above average when it comes to the cost of a wedding photographer. I'm not hesitant to share it at all. My average wedding is right now around like seven thousand dollars and I have prices that go up to about 14k So when because i'm above average it's one of those things where I have no problem at all doing photoshop edits like that and not charging extra I'm, not gonna nickel and die folks are already paying above extra and stuff like that. So, um when it comes to that It's really just a matter of me being realistic with the folks though. Like, uh, for example, I have one couple where they took their engagement sessions in 2021. I am still trying to figure out how to edit this one photo for them. I've done their wedding and everything. It's done. They're technically done as a client and I'm still trying to figure out how to do this photo because the concept with this photo came up was they had a mummy themed wedding, the mummy starring Brendan Fraser, mummy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. I've never heard of this. Okay. Yeah. I've never heard of this one

Gary Pope:

either before this wedding. they did their engagement session. we went out to a sand dune. so it looked like a desert where they were taking their engagement photos. they, at one point we're running through the desert and they wanted the Like in the movie, the mummy movie, where there's a, at one point, there's a sandstorm that brews up and the mummy's head pops out of the sandstorm. they wanted me to do that same thing, but replace the, mummy's head with their dad's head. So in order to do accomplish that and actually make it look good, because I could do it a bunch of ways and it could look tacky and corny and stuff like that. But I didn't want to do that. And I also kind of wanted to figure out a. Solution where if another couple randomly asked me for a mummy, probably why it wouldn't happen, but you never know. You never know. Um, but it will be something where I can easily swap heads and I can finish in like an hour, I suppose, as opposed to having to spend another eight hours working on this photo again,

Raymond Hatfield:

two years,

Gary Pope:

shut up, but yes. But, um, so like to help them out with that, I'm not even that's past Photoshop. This is me learning Unreal 5, like I'm learning, I'm learning how to do like video game design stuff to freaking do this one stupid photo. So. that's why I charge. It's one of those things where, that's why I charge above average. Why I have no problems charging above average because all the work I'm doing for these sort of little dumb project, not dumb, I personally actually enjoy it and like it, but, um, but yeah, that's, how I get across doing that. I have no problems doing these ideas and concepts. It's one of those things that make me stand out on top of all of that, because. I'm willing to try out these different things and go above and beyond for folks.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Okay. Oh my gosh, so so many ideas there. So so many thoughts coming into my head. That's very smart. I love that. Uh that you know that there's a potential for a lot of additional work on the computer side so charging accordingly is is super important for that

Gary Pope:

And you just got to be up front with folks too like this couple that they're waiting for this photo to be brutally honest, they're not even expecting the photo at this point. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, I'm still working on it, because it's one of those things where I was like, Eh, I could give it a shot, but I gotta learn a lot of things. And they're like, Okay, well, we'll see what happens. And then, I'll, hey, I'll probably show up on their five year anniversary and present

Raymond Hatfield:

them with the photo

Gary Pope:

after so

Raymond Hatfield:

much time. Big 30x40 canvas, like, Here you go, I got it, congratulations. Happy anniversary. Wham.

Gary Pope:

That badass anniversary gift. That would be.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm not even into the mummy, but if I got something like that, I'd be like, wow, this is impressive. Like, I appreciate all the time that went into this. Um, back to the photos here, how much would you say, like, what percentage of your day is, I know that we're pushing a lot, you know, like, I'm this photographer. I photograph geeky couples. You are my people. But when you show up on a wedding day, how much of it is like Just average photos reactionary versus planned to try to get more of a specific shot more of a specific emotion because you know like that that dune photo had to have a lot of planning I'm sure that I don't know if you got like a specific photo of the father in law or the father there so that you can yeah

Gary Pope:

yeah they sent me some photos I can use and stuff so there you go

Raymond Hatfield:

it takes a lot of planning so how much of the day percentage wise is reactionary to what's just happening in front of you and, trying to make it more focused on whatever their weddings theme is.

Gary Pope:

you'd be surprised, like, let's say, let's say there's 1000 photos. out of those 1000 photos, let's say, and let's also remove out like, Details and decor that they use to dress up the thing to make it theme wise and stuff like that Let's remove that from the equation. What specific things am I? Instructing people to do to make it fit their geeky aspects or whatever. Yeah out of a thousand photos, maybe three Like maybe three tops like that's like remember that all out harry potter wedding I mentioned earlier I'm going to, in the background we're still talking, count.

Raymond Hatfield:

What? No, no, no. There's no need to do that. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I understand, have a good understanding of where you're at, where you're coming from, but I think that listeners have a really hard time Understanding that you can call yourself, let's just say Harry Potter photographer here. Like I shoot Harry Potter weddings and not make everything that you do revolve around Harry Potter, because correct me if I'm wrong, but there can be too much of a good thing. Right. And I'm sure the couples don't actually want that. They just want, kind of like, as you said earlier, like they want somebody who they're going to get along with. And I guess I'm just trying to figure out like, is that, that's your goal here? Right? It's not that you only do these weddings. You're just trying to tell people this is what I'm into. And if you're into it as well, like we're going to get along awesome. And then along the way, you're going to try to make photos that are going to fit their theme, but still understand that it's.

Gary Pope:

Still a wedding. Yeah, exactly. Still a typical wedding. Well, not, but you know.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I mean, friends and family are still coming together. Like, this is still, a wedding day and there's still some traditions that happen. but, and then you're just going to do everything that you can to get the photos that they want. But outside of that, correct me if I'm wrong and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but like, you want them to enjoy your wedding. Their wedding day. You don't feel the obligation to, make every photo say Harry Potter themed.

Gary Pope:

Exactly. Yep. I just counted through that entire Harry Potter wedding themed. It was one photo. No. The owl photo? so, this is besides their decor and stuff. Oh, okay.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, I'm

Gary Pope:

gonna classify, I'm gonna classify that owl situation as like, that's something that's at their wedding. I'm just taking photos with them near the owls that they have. but this, like, literally where it's like, hey, I'm going to position you in a thing and we're doing our own little geeky thing at the moment. One photo. If we weren't counting the owls, it might be like six. Can you tell me

Raymond Hatfield:

about that one photo? Like, what did they specifically

Gary Pope:

It was a Patronus photo. Oh, okay. They're staying there. Okay. The husband was a little drunk, so he lost his wand. So it's just wanting a wand out for both of them. And that Patronus is sticking out. that, that's the only photo. So like what you were saying, it's all boils down to just being there for their wedding day and just being able to connect with them. It's all about the service. Don't matter about the photos. And here's the thing about this couple that hired me, they hired me, I think. So I rebranded and I had a styled shoot. That was a Harry Potter theme styled shoot. And then besides that, I don't even think I had any completed Harry Potter weddings at the time. So, I didn't even have much

Raymond Hatfield:

of I'm sorry, so the idea for the style I shoot was so that you could get specifically more Harry Potter themed photos for your website? Yeah,

Gary Pope:

yep. And that's also a thing that, I suggest a lot of folks do is that a lot of folks, they'll do styled shoots and they'll just do the typical generic style shoots like, Oh, there, they have flowers there and they have a bride and groom there and it's going to be at a nice venue. And it's like, yeah, that's nice. That's good to get your portfolio started, I guess, if you have literally no photos, but yeah, you should totally be looking at style shoots for whatever specific niche you're going for. cause, it helps a lot. It helps for people to frame. What you could do and what concepts you could do and stuff like that. Like for example, when I started shooting a little bit more dark and moody, I didn't have any weddings. I expressed that. So I did a styled shoot and I told myself the moment I stepped into that shoot, I am shooting this entire thing dark and moody. So, uh, and then when I, uh, a couple has asked me about it, like, Oh, do you shoot dark moody? All we see on your site is bright photos. I'd like, no, we'll check out this shoot. And they're like, Oh, okay. Alright, I like how that looks. Alright, you can do it. You can do the job. but yeah, like this couple that had a full blown Harry Potter wedding, they didn't even see a full Harry Potter gallery before hiring me. They just knew I knew my stuff about Harry Potter. I could talk this stuff. They enjoyed being around me and it just worked out.

Raymond Hatfield:

And

Gary Pope:

that was enough

Raymond Hatfield:

for them. Yeah. Yep. Well, I think that was kind of going to be my next question. to kind of wrap this whole thing up. I'm sure that there are people listening right now who are thinking to themselves, I'm really into something and I would love to maybe be focused on that niche down into that thing. outside of that, do you have any other specific advice to, to help those who are maybe, figuring out how to niche down as much as you have?

Gary Pope:

think the thing is that folks are surprised at how much they can niche down when I'm talking to them about things Because it could literally be anything. you heard earlier I was talking about geeky weddings and interracial marriages. it could be something where it's like occupations. It could be like military spouses, military couples and stuff like that. And the thing is that people don't get like how can you actually help these specific people? How can you actually talk to these specific people? And it really just boils down to How passionate you are about that specific thing. So you can understand the problems that they have, the solutions that they need and stuff. but it could literally be anything you can niche down to, like I said, military couples, you can niche down to, being an animal, photographer. You can niche down to being a photographer that focuses on prints. And that's your niche is prints. It's not even shooting specific kind of weddings. It's just prints. there are photographers out there that special, that niche down to doing just black and white weddings. One thing I would personally suggest though, is that you stick away from styles of photography as being your niche, because that's, Everyone does that. There's a million bright and airy photographers. There's a lot of black and white only photographers. There's a lot of, direct flash photographers. It's like the new trend that's coming out now. I would stick from doing that because that's not niche enough and that's too trendy and a lot of folks are doing it. But hey, you guess what, you know, what a lot of folks are not doing right now. A lot of folks are not doing motorcycle couples. Like that's something where it's like that could be a total niche on its own. People are not doing tattooed couples and that's it's an entire niche. People are not doing, surprisingly, you'd think a bigger trend would being Like LGBTQ specialists or something like that. That's not even that big of a crowd for some odd reason, which blows my mind. It blows my mind. I'm folks who had jumped to direct flash and doing that anyways, but, uh, there's a ton of things you could dive into when it comes to your niche and you just have to be, like I was saying with the whole geek things, you got to actually be passionate and be a knowledgeable of whatever that thing is. I'm not passionate about Harry Potter. I'm knowledgeable of Harry Potter. I like Harry Potter. I've read all the books. I've seen all the movies. I'm well aware of the things in it and stuff like that and take place in it. I'm not the person who's watches it every year. So that, that's when we get to the love part by do enjoy Harry Potter. If someone say, Hey, Gary, can you watch Harry Potter? the gobbler of fire tomorrow? I'd be like, yeah, no problem. I'm not going to have it with a gun to my head. I'm going to enjoy it. But you actually enjoy what it is, whatever niche you want to dive at down into and, just make sure you do your due diligence on researching it and figuring out if it's, a popular enough niche that there's actually customers there, because you don't want to pick a niche like I don't know. Let's say I want to work with only couples that ride go karts on Sundays. You're not going to find anyone in that niche. I mean, but maybe if you did motocross, you might find more. If you, especially if you live in an area where that's a pretty popular thing, you might find actually a decent amount of folks that do that. You never know. You just got to do your own research to see if that's a, it's a popular enough, popular enough thing. And, just remember you only need like, I If you're, when you do these niches and you'd niche down, you could charge more. And when you're charging like 5k plus, just remember that you only got to do 20 weddings a year to make a hundred K grand, obviously, of course, taxes, expenses, that's going to knock that in a hundred K down quite a bit, but still, regardless, it's still a little, amount of money and everything's just, uh, just, uh, Do the math. Realize that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, do the a very important thing if you're in business. Well Gary, appreciate your time today and sharing everything that you did about niching down and this whole world that you're into. I know that some people are listening right now thinking to themselves, I have no idea what a Patronus is, myself included. So, for us, can you share where we can find you online and see some examples of your work?

Gary Pope:

yeah, you can totally find me on, my website is love long and prosper photography. If you got the reference, yes, that is a star Trek reference live long and prosper prosper. But, um, yeah, love long and prosper. com. That's my photography website. You can check me out there.

Raymond Hatfield:

level of geekdom. What did I tell you? I have three main takeaways from this podcast interview with Gary Pope. The first one is to be yourself, just because you are in business doesn't mean that you have to be. Corporate. In fact, I was reading recently that multinational corporations spend millions of dollars every single year to seem to appear to the public, more like a small business. So therefore we small businesses have a superpower that corporations only wish that they could have. So lean in to who you are, be yourself, right? takeaway number two was to know your abilities and your deliverables. Like Gary was talking about, he bakes into his price that he might have to spend a few hours in Photoshop to get a photo the way that a couple wants, don't just go into it trying to be a very specialized photographer and give away you know, the farm for nothing, know your worth and know what it is that you have to deliver and what the job entails to be able to deliver to the best of your abilities. And lastly, when you're bored, Just move on, find a new way to make it exciting like Gary was sharing You know when he was first learning photography and he started to get bored of all the technical settings He bought a flash he tried to learn that create some interesting photos. Just don't get stale Alright, now I want to take a moment to showcase Matt from Crow Wing Photography, our listener of the week for leaving a 5 star rating and review in Apple Podcast. Now Matt says, I started listening to Raymond, that's me, about a month ago and I'm already 45 podcast episodes deep. That's crazy. His interviews with successful artists and their stories really made me step up my game and be more creative. There are some interviews about creativity that are so enlightening. That it had me look at life in a different way. And I am thankful for that. Whoa. It doesn't matter if you are new or a veteran photographer, there is something for everyone in this podcast, Matt, man, I'm so happy that you are enjoying the podcast and that it has helped you see photography and life in a different way. Life that is amazing. If you are enjoying the show, I cannot tell you how helpful reviews are for the show. And let me know that I am on the right track to creating a podcast that is helping you on your photo journey. If you're listening on Spotify, you can leave the podcast a star rating right on the show's main page. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, you can leave a rating and review as well. Now that is it for this week. Thank you again for tuning into this episode of the beginner photography podcast. Brought to you by Clouds Spot, which is the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. You can learn more about Cloud Spot by hitting over to deliver photos.com. And remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.

Outro:

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