The Beginner Photography Podcast

Introverts are Masters of Marketing with Julie Christie

• Julie Christie

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#340 Julie Christie is a family photographer turned mastermind behind The Photographers Voice. In this interview Julie discusses the importance of keeping things simple when beginning a photography business. She shares her personal experiences of growing up enthralled by photographs but needing time and persistence to understand the technical side of photography and professionally recognize it.

The Big Ideas

  • Start simple and persist.
  • Learn to use light and shadows.
  • Develop your own style.
  • Marketing is connection.
  • Introverts can be great marketers.
  • Connection content builds audience.
  • Create a website quickly.

Timestamps

  • 00:03:17 Start small and be persistent. 
  • 00:06:27 Understand light and shadows. 
  • 00:14:35 Develop your own style. 
  • 00:22:24 Marketing is connection. 
  • 00:27:09 Introverts can be great marketers. 
  • 00:35:05 Connection content builds audience. 
  • 00:39:18 Build trust and visibility.



https://thephotographersvoice.com/
https://www.instagram.com/thephotographersvoice/

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Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Julie Christie:

That's how most of us enter photography, is as a side hustle. It's certainly, you know, I have a membership for photographers and the vast majority of them started with the side hustle. So if it's a side hustle, it's even more important that you keep things simple and paired back. So, everything good is simple in my opinion. Everything good. And the minute you start to overcomplicate and add things, everything becomes more of a chore.

Raymond Hatfield:

Welcome to episode 340 of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by CloudSpot, the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we are chatting with a family photographer turned Mastermind behind The Photographer's Voice, which was previously Togs in Business, Julie Christie, about what new photographers need to know when thinking about starting a photo business. Now, I will tell you that Togs in Business was a resource that I used frequently when starting out, in my, Photo business journey, specifically for marketing, help, and ideas. Now today it is called the photographer's voice. And Julie has all the same great info to help you out. You know, if you're thinking about starting a photography business and with it being the new year, I know many of you are thinking about starting a photo business. So this interview is especially for you with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's podcast interview with Julie Christie, Julie. I just want to know, when did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Julie Christie:

Oh. Honestly, forever from as far back as I can remember, um, I remember being like knee high and obsessively looking at the Old family photo albums, so not taking photographs, but just obsessively looking at them being. It's always been people for me. So just being absolutely transfixed by the people in the photograph and imagining, what was going on around them, what their lives were like, who they were. All of that, it's always been people for me and I can still, I can still to this day look at an old family photograph for like an unnatural amount of time. but taking photographs, not so much, just kind of looking at them, appreciating them. I did ask for a camera, a good camera for my 18th birthday. I'm ashamed to say that I dropped it in the sea when I was traveling, like less than a year later. And I'd never really managed to get my head around it. I was too young and lazy to, learn properly. So really it wasn't until my son came along. That's such a cliche. I know now when my son, when my babies came along, but when my son came along, that's when I really started to take it seriously. And I took some night classes. at college, but it's, it's always been there. I've always known it was a, a passion.

Raymond Hatfield:

So why do you think you waited until your son was born to, to really explore this?

Julie Christie:

Laziness, like, resistance to what it took to learn. I think I had to mature a lot because it takes patience, right? To actually, Learn everything you need to learn and to keep going at it. I think that's the thing that's the, the persistence, the tenacity, the fact that you are really quite crap for quite a long time. Yes. So I think I had to mature a little bit before I could actually. keep going and stick in with it before I had the grit,

Raymond Hatfield:

if

Julie Christie:

you know what I mean.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah, of course. I'm always interested because, I feel the same way looking at old family photos. My father passed away when I was just a few months old, unfortunately. So all that I have is old photos. Thank you. And especially like when, my mom and dad got married, I look at those photos and those were from The mid seventies. And I think it is such a foreign time. I was not born in the seventies and yet I look at these images and it just seems so, captivating. And like you said, you know, you look at these images and you, you imagine what was going on around them. You wonder why everything was so brown and you know what their lives were like as well. and I think for me, I got into photography pretty early, I think because of that, because it was so interesting to me. when it came to like those early days, were you using like a point and shoot? was there anything like that before you got the, the nice fancy camera when you turned 18?

Julie Christie:

Oh yeah. Like disposables. I used to have, I always had a disposable somewhere. they were awful, weren't they? They weren't the best. Yeah, no. They were fun. They were fun. but you know, like. 80 percent miss. Oh, yeah. On a good day. But yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

there was, there was always a camera. I always had a camera. Uh huh. So when it came time to just taking photos of whatever, did you find that you were using, that you were taking more snapshots or looking back, do you feel like those photos were taken more with intention than just a snapshot?

Julie Christie:

Honestly, truthfully, until I took it seriously, when I was, late twenties. So that's when I started going to classes. I would say snapshots. I don't, I think again, there was always, I've always been really hard on myself, my own worst critics. So anytime I did try to take something intentionally, I was always really disappointed with it, frustrated. So I would always just revert back to snapshots and that frustration that I used to allow myself to be frustrated. And then I decided, no, no, I want, I'm fed up with this. I want to really know what I'm doing. So until I felt like I knew what I was doing more, I kind of resisted trying to take these intentional gorgeous images because I was never happy with them. I'm one of those people.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, well, now that you have the experience, when you look back at those photos, what do you think it was from a technical standpoint that you were so frustrated with?

Julie Christie:

Not understanding light. Mm, genuinely, not seeing it the way that I can see it now, and I would say that every single time I've taken, or in the early days when I was taking photographs, I was disappointed with, it was almost always looking back. It was almost always because I didn't understand the light that was there at the time, the direction, how it was behaving, how I had to compensate for it. So that was always, almost always my. Stumbling block. And you know, when that clicked, it was the most amazing thing. And it was very sudden, actually, for me, when I, it was like the penny dropped. Really? I really understood light and how it behaved and came to love shadows. And that's when my photography, that's when I just, I started to fall really deeply in love with it and started to believe that I could do it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So what was it? What was it that turned it all around for you? What made you be able to see the light?

Julie Christie:

I actually had a one to one with someone, oh my goodness, this is so long ago. I found him online, he was like an old, old journalist living in a seaside village and I asked for this gift for my birthday. And I went down there and I spent the whole day with him and he called this section of the day installing the light monkey. Wow. And he spent like an hour talking about this light monkey and that the idea was that this light monkey was on your shoulder and he, took me to all these different sections. Spots and he talked me through the light and spots even, you know, where I would've thought, well, this is a boring photograph. And he showed me how to make that photograph interesting. You know, even just pebbles under a, an old shipping boat and how the light was falling on them and how I could expose for that light and embrace the shadows. And it was just like this moment of, holy crap like that. It's as simple as that. And all, all of a sudden. Everywhere I looked, I was seeing light. I used to play it really safe. I would go for flat light all the time, especially with portraits. And then all of a sudden I was, I couldn't watch a film without pausing a scene and, obsessing over this scene and how it was lit and thinking, if I was in that scene, what photographs would I take and how would I use the light? You know, it was like this obsession after that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right. So, Going out and shooting in natural light is very different than, being more, I don't want to say intentional with your photos, but, well, I guess let's use that as a transition into, when you started business. So first, I guess, did you go to college for photography? Did you go to college for something else? tell me how that journey happened?

Julie Christie:

So I was a teacher, when I first started. With my photography journey, I was a primary school teacher and we moved across, I'm in Scotland and we moved across the country, and my children were still really young. I was in a part time job. I couldn't find a part time job where we moved to, so, and I'd, I'd been taking some photographs, I'd been getting more into it. So I thought, well, in the meantime. Whilst I am trying to find a part time job whilst my kids are young, I will start taking some photographs for money. And yeah, it was only ever meant to be a temporary thing and I never went back to teaching, basically. So that's how I started my business. Badly. I started my business badly.

Raymond Hatfield:

I don't think so. I don't think that you started it badly. It sounds to me like, I mean, I had a, I had a similar way into photography as well. And speaking with other photographers, they have a similar route, as well. And I think that, obviously, What's that quote? I can't remember the quote right now, but it's like it doesn't matter where it came from. It really only matters like where you're at today. And that's so true. I wouldn't say that you're in a bad position for sure. Not now. Not now. Not now. When you did start shooting, what were you shooting? Children and families. that's very interesting. So you moved to an entirely new location and you thought, okay, quickly, I have to gain the trust of parents with little kids, to, be able to photograph them. how did you do that?

Julie Christie:

Well, I was lucky. Because I was moving back to my hometown. So it was like coming home after 10 years. so I had lots of friends in the area. I was able to kind of cut my teeth on, on their children and take abysmal photographs of their children. They thought that they were good, you know, and I look back at them now and go, ah, no. So I, I did have, a good few clients kind of lined up to help me out to begin with. But then, but really after that, it was like starting afresh. I didn't know anyone beyond my close circle of friends. but I was cheap. It was 2010. The, you know, the competition was not nearly so fierce. It was those days of Facebook where you could post Like one thing to Facebook and get an inquiry, you know, it was the glory days glory days So I don't kid myself for a minute that it you know It's not like that now. It's just not like that when you start a photography business today I was very lucky with the timing of when I started and I was also low cost I mean, I think most of us start cheap, but I was selling a photography session plus 30 images on a disc for You 175 pounds. So I don't know, that's maybe 250, something like that. So it was affordable, very affordable, not profitable, but it was, it actually, I don't regret it because it allowed me to get lots of practice with lots of clients. and yeah, that was my first year was basically charging, Low prices and getting as many people in the door as possible and learning a lot on the job.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. So, two follow up questions for you. First, when you look back at those early photographs, what are the things that stand out as like amateur mistakes?

Julie Christie:

Oh, where do I begin?

Raymond Hatfield:

You're like, I tried to block all those photos out of my memory, I don't even know.

Julie Christie:

Yes, yes, yes. Overexposure a lot of the time. Again, what we were talking about earlier, just this dependence on flat light. Boring flat lights. Oh my goodness, posing mistakes. I mean, cheesy posing, terrible use of flash, composition errors. I wouldn't know where to end there with the list of laws that I would see in them now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like you said, you know, you're cutting your teeth, so you got to try all these things out. You got to figure out kind of who you are as a photographer. Absolutely. I think that.

Julie Christie:

And I'm not ashamed of them. I'm not ashamed of them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I think that's really important to know.

Julie Christie:

Yeah, no, I just think, and I always say that to people, look, take the terrible photographs and you don't think they're terrible at the time. You're only going to think they're terrible years from now and no one else will ever think they're terrible. You know, it's like, so don't worry about them. Just take them. Take as many of them as you possibly can.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, we as photographers we can be in an endless feedback loop, unfortunately, of, looking at other photographers, thinking that we have to be that good. And then we go out and shoot and it's. You know, if we're still learning, it's not going to be, you know, it's the same caliber as somebody who's been shooting for a long time. and that is really important. You know, I think back to my first wedding and I think if I were to deliver that today, I would be mortified. but at the time I was very proud of what it was that I delivered. So just keep moving forward.

Julie Christie:

Because with your skill, as your skills developing, your eye is developing too. So the eye that you have for photography in those early days, it's not so well honed either. So you're looking at your photographs and you're proud every time that you improved. So yes, it's the journey. I'm not ashamed of them. I laugh at them and sometimes I cringe a little bit, but I'm still proud of that. That's part of my journey. I would never hide from them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. And you took action where a lot of people would just, not even make it to that point, at all. But my followup question for you was, you know, you said that you really first started photographing families and children, just until you could find a better job. So when did that switch to you and you decided to. Make photography a full time living for you.

Julie Christie:

So there was a turning point, a year later, so I was very busy, like I said, with, being so affordable and with the, just the timing of when I started and that kind of access to early Facebook business pages and things. So I was very busy for a year. I had a really, I mean, I had a three year old and a one year old, it was a busy, busy time and I was kind of burned out at the end of the year. So I thought, well, I could either. Go back to teaching or I can look at this business model of mine and see if I can change it because what I had happened was I sat down to do my books, which I had never even looked at in a year. And I realized when I kind of. Added everything up. I realized that I'd been working for less than minimum wage here in the UK, considering the hours that I'd put in. And I thought, do you know, I've just spent so much time away from my family and burning the midnight oil that this can't continue. I'd made money, but it wasn't worth it in terms of the time. So I had this decision to make where, okay, I either really start to learn to understand business and marketing, which I didn't, I was just, Totally winging it all the time. So I either do that and build a really exceptional business I can be proud of and that's profitable, or I go back to teaching and I obviously chose the former, but just to dive into business and marketing. And when I did that, you know, within six months of really. I would say being consumed by that and learning everything I possibly could, I was more obsessed with marketing than I have ever been with photography. Marketing is now 100 percent my passion and photography is not, which I'm ashamed to say that in front of you.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. Well, because marketing gives us a way. To do more photography. So I don't think that's a bad thing. Yeah,

Julie Christie:

absolutely.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've

Julie Christie:

quickly found that the marketing was what I was loving more than anything, you know, like I was driving back from sessions and I just couldn't wait to get home and think about what I was going to do with the photographs marketing wise. In order to, to grow the business. So I wasn't, I found myself not looking forward to the session so much and looking forward to my time at the computer. Wow. This is weird.

Raymond Hatfield:

I never thought

Julie Christie:

this would happen.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Yeah. Especially cause feels so, creative to get out there and, shoot with your camera and take these photos. And then when you get back in front of the computer, it feels much more analytical, at least in my brain, it doesn't feel as creative, but it's Do you feel it feels that same way to you Or does marketing feel more creative?

Julie Christie:

I think marketing is one of the most creative things you can do if you can switch your mindset to being creative with your marketing and thinking of it differently, you can have as much fun creating a marketing campaign if you allow yourself. I mean, I'm not saying everyone would, but I think a lot of creative types. And as photographers tend to be creative types, a lot of creative types, if they allowed themselves to see it that way and give themselves time to practice marketing that is fun for them to do, enjoyable for them to do, they'll see that actually designing and creating a marketing campaign is fun. Unbelievably exciting.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, Raymond here, and we will get back to today's show in just a moment. I know that you've seen self proclaimed quote unquote photography influencers selling Lightroom presets for, you know, 20, 50, or even a hundred dollars. But here's the thing. Presets are a learning tool and not a one click solution to fix a bad photo. Well, I want to help you by giving you my 52 free Lightroom presets over at free photography presets. Use presets to learn editing on your own so that you can create your own signature editing style. Not somebody else's. Again, grab your 52 free Lightroom presets today at freephotographypresets. com Now, back to today's interview. I feel like seeing how a piece is going to be put together, can feel very creative. and, you know, bringing everything all in one and especially seeing, results from it. Um, but I know that a lot of the listeners, you know, this podcast is called the beginner photography podcast and many of the listeners are still going from zero to one. They're in that phase perhaps where it's like they like photography. They've always felt kind of creative, but like you, maybe they're just getting started out in photography and they think maybe I'll just try to make a few bucks. You know, maybe I'll use it as a, side hustle, uh, which is now a term, which it wasn't really 10 years ago. For those people, I feel like there's a lot of pressure to be put on them as far as like, you need to go hard, you need to be everywhere, you need to do all these things, right?

Julie Christie:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Is that the case, or can we start smaller?

Julie Christie:

No. Oh no, we can definitely start small and simple, and that's, I would never advise anything different to someone, especially, you know, you described it as a side hustle, and that's how most of us are. Um, and I think that's one of the reasons that a lot of photographers enter is as a side hustle that certainly, you know, I have a membership for photographers and the vast majority of them started with the side hustle. So, if it's a side hustle, even more important that you keep things simple and paired back. So, everything good is simple, in my opinion, everything good. And the minute you start to overcomplicate and add things, everything becomes more of a chore. So, you know, trying to, I always ask myself. I think it's Tim Ferris. This comes from Tim Ferris. What would this look like if it was easy? And how can it be made simpler? And instead of adding things, just what can you take away? Ask yourself all the time. What can I take away to make this easier? And actually, you find often that the more things you take away, the better your ideas and business will be. So yes, starting small. And you said, you know, you have to go hard. You have to be everywhere. That's definitely not my experience. And I would never advise it. It's just the road to burnout. it's the shortcut to hating your business and giving up.

Raymond Hatfield:

It doesn't work. What is the simplest way to get started in marketing?

Julie Christie:

In marketing? Oh, wow. Okay. like if it was specific to. Yes, I would say understanding that marketing is connection. So when you think about your photography, especially if you are a portrait or a wedding photographer, and that's really the people. And that's kind of my niche. That's who I help. So I kind of always go there. but if you think about a lot of other photography, too, it's how that photograph you're thinking when you're creating it, you're obviously you want it to be. Amazing. But you want it to have impact, right? That's the big thing. You want people to see it and stop and take it in. And that's about connection. That's connecting with the viewer of the photograph and making it meaningful for them. And the more meaningful it is to them, the longer they'll spend with it. Marketing is exactly the same. all about connection. And when you see it as a way of connecting with someone who's just like you. Who wants to hire a photographer at some time in the future, maybe not right now, but at some point, then you can create this photography brands with a personality that is almost indistinguishable from your own personality. if you want to love your business, that's what you do. You create a brand that has the same tone of voice as you. That has the same personality as you. So when you are putting your stuff out there to the world, when you are, sending images out to social media, for example, with a caption, or you're creating a little video where you're speaking to your audience, you are doing it with your own voice, with your values shining through, with your sense of humor shining through, you're not hiding behind this, Impersonal kind of corporate identity. You're just saying, this is me loud and proud. And what happens when you do that, when you allow your brand personality to be your own is over time, people who have come into contact with you and your business, they start to really warm to you. You make them smile. You have the same values as them, the same opinions as them, that they start to trust you. They start to enjoy your stories. And over time. Even if they're not looking for a photographer, because we have to remember, most people are not looking for a photographer right now, right? Over time, when they do need a photographer, there is like, no question of who they're going to hire, because you have become almost like a friend to them. They're somewhat, and photography, especially portrait and wedding photography, is one of the most personal services you can buy. It is hugely personal. So this, someone who's price shopping, let's forget about them, but the person who is looking for a photographer and it matters to them. The photographs they're going to get matter a lot. There are so many good photographers now. So many, you can't compete on price. You can't really even compete on quality of photography these days. It's almost impossible. The only differentiator you have now is your personality and the connection you have with your audience, because that is what will make them decide to buy from you, even if you're a bit more expensive, they're like, I'm going to save up because I want Julie. Right. I'm going to wait six months because I want Raymond. It's like, people don't believe it until it starts happening, but marketing is connection. 100%.

Raymond Hatfield:

There's so many places I want to go with that. I think, that was a

Julie Christie:

ramble. No,

Raymond Hatfield:

no, no, it wasn't a ramble. It was, it was very insightful. I think the best example that I have for that as proof, because one of the biggest things that I hear from. Photographers just getting started is like, you know, people in my town don't have a lot of money to pay for me. And my rebuttal to them playing devil's advocate is I bet every one of those people has like the newest iPhone, right? It's not because they don't have money. It's because, Apple is really good at marketing to, to the desire. People want that. And people always have money for the things that they want, or they'll always find money for the things that they want. If what's going to make people purchase in the future, isn't necessarily the quality of the photograph and it's not necessarily the price, but it is our brand and our personality. What about people like myself, I would consider are more introverted and feel worried about putting ourselves out there. How can we make an impact and still stand out as a business?

Julie Christie:

Oh man, like introverts are often the best marketers. so introverts. Interesting. Like if you are an introvert and I'm an introvert, like I'm an extroverted introvert, but I'm still an introvert. Introverts are really interesting in that marketing really matters to them and marketing with integrity really matters to an introvert. So they spend a lot of time. Are you like this, Raymond? So do you research before you buy

Raymond Hatfield:

endlessly?

Julie Christie:

Metis.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. It

Julie Christie:

matters, right? You want to know, and the more information you can get, the better because you want to make the best purchasing decision you can possibly make, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

It's like you're in my brain, yes.

Julie Christie:

Yes! And that's what introverts do that extroverts are more likely to make impulse decisions and they get kind of swallowed up in the marketing hype. Introverts are turned away by hype they can see right through it. They're like, no, I want integrity. I want to know that I can trust this business. and I'm going to take my time. I'm not going to buy today. I'm going to read some stuff I'm going to ask about. So if you are an introvert yourself and you have a business, then the best thing you can do is own your introversion and appeal to like minded introverts. So for example, you maybe wouldn't do so much video, introverts prefer to read. You would, make sure that your clients, your potential clients have an answer to every single possible question that they might have. And it's on your website and it's on your socials and it's sent via email. So that they can read through it. They can make the best possible decision for them. So there's lots of different things that introverts are super, super good at. But what I would say in terms of connection is when you are, and I do think it's important nowadays that you share some of yourself in your website. On your socials via email, but that doesn't mean you have to let them peek behind the curtains of your personal life at all.

Raymond Hatfield:

It just

Julie Christie:

means that you're sharing values, opinions, starting conversations. You don't even necessarily have to share your face, although I would definitely advise you to now and now and again, but it doesn't mean you have to, Allow them a glimpse into your private life. It's just sharing like minded thoughts and feelings and information with like minded people. So sharing that you are an introvert is really important. And a lot of introverts, you know, they're quite deep thinkers. And when they write that comes across, you know, it comes across how much they think and how much they care and empathize. And that is such an amazing thing to have in a photographer. If I was choosing a photographer, I want them to be empathetic. I want them to be a deep thinker. I want them to have imposter syndrome. I want all of those things because that means they really care about me and they're going to really do a good job for me. And They understand all my introvert features and all my insecurities. So it's about owning who you are. You know, you definitely don't have to be an extrovert to be a marketer. In fact, my favorite marketers are introverts. I'm not into the hype. I'm into honesty and you know, a genuine approach to marketing and introverts do that so well,

Raymond Hatfield:

so beautifully. Now, first of all, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that because, again, like I said, There are so many listeners of the podcast who have said, they feel held back because they feel like the world of photography isn't for introverts. And if you are an introvert, then you have to just do like street photography. But even then, then you're photographing people on the street and it's like this endless thing. so that was, I think, a great way of breaking it down to figure out how we as introverts can share things online, and make an impact. But when we are first getting started, maybe. Can you share some examples of what sorts of thoughts and what sorts of values we should be sharing that aren't necessarily part of our personal life? Does that question make sense?

Julie Christie:

Yes. Yeah, it does make sense. Okay. So let's say, let me give you a good example. One we were talking about recently, was family photography. So inside the membership, we were talking about social posts and people get getting stuck when they're trying to create captions, create short form video, that kind of thing. I was trying to encourage people to think small. To think simple to think of things they can do really quickly and simply that can be high impact. So, for example, one of our members met was a family photographer. Her ideal clients are parents with primary school aged children. And I was saying to her, you know, about all of these topics that are relevant and very engaging for a parent at that stage of life. And just talking about them and maybe giving an opinion. On something like that gives a hell of an insight into who you are without divulging anything about your private life. So, for example, let's say. You have a kid who's sitting at home doing homework. This is one of from my personal life sitting at home doing homework and they're really struggling and I've always thought when they're that age, I've thought, why are they coming home and having to do homework? I just don't believe in it. Right. And so sharing that thought on social media or via email about what you feel about homework and asking What do you guys think? Do you agree? Do you think kids should have homework at this point or do you feel the same? You know, that's just, that tells me a lot about you. And your values and the kind of person you are, but it doesn't show me your children. It doesn't show me the house you're living in or a day in your life. It just gives me an idea of whether I might like to hang out with you or not. So sharing. Even just, some things that really wind you up and rattle your cage, sharing things that light you up, what makes you happy? what songs are you listening to? So there's lots of connection stuff that you can share. And of course, you have to do lots more in marketing, but that connection and engagement content is what's going to really make the difference when it comes to people deciding to choose you. And there's so much connection content that you can put out there that doesn't compromise your privacy.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Connection content. I had not heard that phrase before. Uh, I'm going to write that down. Connection content. So, in marketing. Okay, so here's what I think a lot of people get. Mixed up and correct me if I'm wrong, but marketing is not posting once on Facebook and saying, you know, what do you guys think? And just trying to get engagement, right? At the end of the day, if you want to make money with photography, that has to convert into sales as well. So is there some sort of mixture of connection content versus sales content that we should be putting out there?

Julie Christie:

Definitely. And again, you know, when you're listening to this, it's easy to get overwhelmed, but if you try to think small with your ideas, something that you can create quickly, then it's not so overwhelming. So I'm just, that was just kind of a disclaimer, but yes, there's definitely a mixture of content. So I see it as connection content being when you allow people a glimpse into who you are. And again, it doesn't have to be your private life, just especially. Really importantly, your values, what's important to you, your sense of humor, huge, you know, allow them a glimpse into that. Your nerdiness, all of these things, these are the things that people go, ah, that's like me, you know, what you find funny, all that sort of stuff. that's your connection content. If you are in like a visibility phase of your business, so you need an audience, you don't really have anyone watching your stuff. You know, the only person on your email list is your auntie, you know, it's like that. We all start there. So that's like a visibility phase for your business. And it's the connection and the engagement marketing content that's going to build your audience because that's the stuff that people need. Can easily engage with. And generally you'll put that out on social. You tend to keep that for social media. And if you're in a visibility phase, you will have, you'll kind of veer towards the connection engagement, heavy content, and that's the easiest stuff to create. It's really simple. It's when you're starting conversations, you're allowing them a glimpse into you. You're asking questions, that kind of stuff. A lot of the time you're using your photographs as the images. Or the videos to go with it, but in the caption, you're maybe talking about something else. So that's your connection, your engagement stuff. But you also might be in a visibility phase in the lead up to something big. So let me give you an example. Let's say you are a photographer. I'm going to say a family photographer again. And the moment, you have some work. You're kind of busy. Maybe it's It's your spring family sessions and everyone's been getting in touch and you're busy with shoots. So on social, at that point, it would be a good idea to be in a visibility phase and just chuck out some really easy connection and engagement content with some photographs, right? Getting your audience up so that people are smiling when they see your stuff there. It's easy to engage with. They're like, I like this person. This is great. Because what might be coming up as a time where you need to sell. And when you create, so the other types of content are like authority content, and that's when you're showing your expertise. So you are making sure that the person seeing it, reading it, is thinking, Whoa, Raymond knows his stuff. If I ever need a photographer, he sounds like he's the go to guy. He really understands his craft. he seems like he's the authority in the area. So you want to be creating authority content as well. That's always the meatier stuff, takes a bit longer. So helpful hints and tips, for example, but not generic ones, ones that people go, Oh, okay. Yeah. That's really cool. Like, so authority content can be, you know, There's so many different things you can talk about, from what to wear, ideas on what to wear, wedding bouquet inspiration, or, you know, even just how to take a certain shot with your iPhone. So many different things, a million ideas there. And then you have your promotional content, which is literally when you're saying, buy my stuff. And that has to happen. So if it makes sense, it depends on the phase you're in and your business, the cocktail, the mixture that you would do. Yes. I tend to be in visibility mode a lot of the time. And then if I'm building up to a campaign, I'm like, right, let's check lots of visibility stuff out there. Get lots of, let's get lots of views, lots of engagement, because I'm about to release some authority content and promotional content. And they don't get Anywhere near the traction, of course, of course, of the visibility stuff. So if you're thinking strategically, you are building trust and, entertainment and likeability with your audience. And then you're saying, but look how good I am at this. Here's some information. I know you're going to need this, but remember, only a small portion of your audience are going to buy. So that's why that kind of content doesn't get the same likes. It doesn't get the same engagement, but it gets the sales. So you have to ignore, you know, I always say when you put something out there, I know we're keeping to social, but it's across the board. When you put something out there that's very much authority content, you're never going to get the same likes. As you get with your connection stuff and your engagement stuff, but You might get a couple of messages from it and that is highly, highly valuable, right? So you have to be expecting the lower engagement because it's, it's got its place. It's really important. And the promotional stuff comes off the back of that. That's when you're saying, okay, let me tell you about my headshot day that's coming up and you tell them all about it. And then you may be pop on a few days later to say, Guys, this is booking up. I have like three spots left. If you want one, you know, you have to move fast. That's your promotional content where you're literally just saying you better buy now, get off the fence and buy now. And this is how you do it. Right. So you need a mixture of the content, especially on social and you need to be making sure that your website. Is filled with authority content. That's where your authority content should really live because that's the stuff as much as it's not highly engageable.

Raymond Hatfield:

It's a word. It's now a word. Yeah. Engageable. I like it.

Julie Christie:

Beautiful. although it's not going to get huge numbers of, comments and all that sort of stuff, it's the, that's the stuff that makes someone go from, I'm thinking about this to, okay, you've just answered some really good questions. I'm ready to buy, you know, like the as introverts who need all the information. So the authority content, you really want every question as answered and every concern addressed on your website and blog posts. And even maybe in, pages of your website so that people can find that and that really moves the needle for you and makes them go from maybe to yes, definitely. And the great thing about putting that on your website is. You know, from one blog post like that, you could easily, after some practice, create 20 social posts that you can then repurpose onto social media. So if you think about it as one piece of authority content, you wouldn't believe how many social posts you can get from that. And if you're creating, when I think about email, so I think about it all as, all coming from one piece of content most of the time. And people neglect email whilst they're creating social posts. Now, if you think about, maybe two weeks worth of social posts, and maybe you want to send an email to your email list every couple of weeks, there's going to be something on your social posts from the last two weeks that you could send out to your email list. Maybe a conversation that happened under a thread that was really interesting, or maybe something really surprising that. that you found out or just a post that seemed to go wild and people loved it. So why not, I'm going to send that to my email list and get direct them to Instagram or TikTok and let them have a look at it and comment on it. So your email, people think that they have to be creating different content for their website, their socials, and their email, when actually it should be the same content, just repurposed to your different posts. platforms, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. Yeah, that is. I feel like creating different content for each platform is something that is pushed a lot. And the way that you just explained it makes so much more sense and makes it feel a whole lot easier as well. But I know that, again, a lot of. let's focus on those photographers going from zero to one. I think that you just laid out an amazing path there that would help literally anybody who's listening. but for those who are going from zero to one, maybe they don't have a website yet and they're just posting things on social, maybe, I guess. Question one, is that okay? Just post things on social. Like, can, that get things started? And two, when do we know when it's time to create a website?

Julie Christie:

Oh, I'm good. Big questions. I don't know if you're going to like this one. so it is okay. Of course it's okay. If you're doing something, then it's okay. Today, not having a website is going to be a problem without a doubt. I would say create a website immediately. And I would, but on top of that, I would say, don't spend ages creating your website. put a three page website out there that you spent a day on. That's more than fine, but just please have a website because in 2023, it's what people expect, in order to gain that trust, and they will always visit your website from social. So if they're on Instagram or TikTok or, wherever they want, and they're thinking, okay, I kind of want to learn more about this person, and you have nowhere for them to go. That's a problem. And it's somewhere where people are very distracted, right? And they, they would have to go back through your content to get that connection from you. So you really want to come into their world. A lot of the time you'll come into their world via social, but you then want to get them into your world in a deeper way. And that happens on your website. So you want to be taking them to your website and maybe, well, hopefully getting them onto your email list. So I would get a website up and running. As soon as possible. And if you want to make that really quick, I would just grab a Squarespace template. I would have a home page, a gallery page and information page and a contact page. And then I would let it evolve and grow over time. But I would just get it out

Raymond Hatfield:

Julie, I don't know how to end it any better than that. That was like the plan right there. if anybody's listening, like that's what you need to know, you know, get started on social, create that website and then lead people to the website. Julie even gave you what pages that you need to put onto your website. That's everything right there.

Julie Christie:

play the long game, play the long game, be the tortoise always. Be

Raymond Hatfield:

Be the tortoise. Always be the tortoise. I love that. Julie, before I let you go, you know, people are going to be interested. They're going to want to learn more about you and what it is that you have to offer. And you shared so much today that I'm sure they're going to be like, I need to hear more from Julie. So where can we find, more information for you online? Where can we find you online? That's what I was looking for.

Julie Christie:

I think I would most like them to find me on Instagram so they can find me on Instagram at the photographer's voice. I would love to connect with them there.

Raymond Hatfield:

What a powerful interview from Julie. I have three big takeaways from today's interview. the first one was that introverts can be powerful marketers as a somebody who I mean myself, I would consider myself an introvert. I would definitely say that wedding photography has helped me kind of, blur those lines a little bit. but as somebody who, you know, in my personal life, I would consider myself an introvert, it can be difficult to put myself out there, to know what to say to others. especially, you know, When it comes to marketing, because marketing it's a whole new world, outside of photography. We get into photography because we love taking photos. We love, savoring those moments of life, not marketing. So marketing can always be a difficult time, but it has to come from our voice. And, Julie shared some great tips and ideas for how introverts can be amazingly powerful marketers. Takeaway number two was the four types of content to post. This blew me away. Communication, engagement, authority, and promotional content. those buckets all have their own, purposes, right? And they're designed to get you out there, to get you known, to increase engagement, and to make sales, right? Again, communication, engagement, authority, and promotional content. Emotional. If you think about, should I post this? If it fits within one of those four buckets, I would say yes. And obviously it just gives you more of a strategic way to go ahead and do that. So that was super powerful. And lastly, it is okay if promotional content gets less likes and engagement online. I mean, it makes sense. Everybody wants to be social on social media. Everybody wants to be entertained on social media. When you post something promotional, not every time people are going to love it, but you run a business and people do have to know that you offer a service and they have to know how to contact you and they have to know about, you know, new promotions. And just because it doesn't get a lot of likes today, doesn't mean somebody doesn't see it and knows in the future who they're going to come to when they need a promotion. photographer. Those promotional posts are going to get you more of the right engagement and that is important. All right. With that, I do want to, have a little call to connect. I want to invite you into the beginner photography podcast community over on Facebook. if you want to grow your skills as a photographer, the best way to do that is to surround yourself with other photographers who are just as passionate about photography as you are so that you can, provide helpful questions to their answers and even get phone feedback on your photos. So to join the most helpful community on the internet for new photographers, head to beginner photopod. com forward slash group. Or you can just click the link on the homepage now. And if you don't have any feedback, feel free to, you know, send me your question by heading over to the contact page at beginner photography podcast. com. And you can either shoot me an email or leave me a voicemail. I'd love to hear from you. Now that is it for this week. Thank you again for tuning into this episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast, brought to you by Cloud Spot. Cloud Spot is the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos online. I don't know how many more ways I can say that. You can learn more about Cloud Spot. Grab a free account by heading over to deliver photos.com today and remember to be a better photographer. The more you shoot today, the better you will be tomorrow. All right. Talk to you soon.

Outro:

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